Kung Fu Survey...

[Ao Qin]

Hello!

As an instructor (I don't consider myself a "Sifu", but I do teach others), I have developed a survey to give to prospective or new students, so as to ascertain their own interests in the arts (and to pique their interest), and see if it is compatible with my own value system - it is based on a 12 point survey...I will try to attach it (in Word format) - if it doesn't work, I'll just delete this thread.

Merely hoping it will generate some interest / comments / criticism, etc...

Enjoy! Ao Qin


Your Training Value System...

Assign the following in the order of your interest: This is a confidential survey, and will only be seen by your Sifu, & used for your own consideration – Please be as honest as possible, with yourself – there are no right or wrong answers – everyone who does this survey will answer differently!!

Area Interest Level12 = least interested 1 = most interested

1. General Fitness (strength, flexibility, balance, endurance, etc. – “Ching”) – through practice and effort

2. Health (longevity, radiance (“radiant health”), increased energy – “Shen”) – through practice and effort

3. Self-Defense / Application of Technique (intense work with others, Chin Na, conditioning, etc.) Practice / repetition, tolerance for pain

4. Sparring (tournaments, contact fighting, etc.)Practice / endurance / tolerance for pain

5. Development of Internal Power (“Chi” – including “Ging”) Practice / tolerance for boredom and repetition

6. Transformation (physical, emotional and mental) - “cultivating contentment” / development of presence & attention – researching, discussing, and practicing

7. Philosophical exploration of the Art (spiritual, mystical, and philosophical theories – reading, researching, discussing, etc.)
8. Cultural Aspects – lion dancing, music (drumming, cymbals, gongs, etc.), language (Cantonese), new foods, cultural experiences, etc.)

9. Self – Esteem aspects – teaching others, passing on the Art, respected by others, personal empowerment, etc.

10. Historical aspects of the Art (legends, history, genealogical studies – reading, researching, discussing

11. Social Benefits (community demonstrations, developing friendships, networking, role-modeling for younger generations, etc.)

12. Psychological benefits (improved self-confidence, focus, calmness, understanding of others & self, etc.

[Serpent]

What if someone is equally interested in, say, qi development and lion dancing. None of the things on your list are mutually exclusive. Breaking it down like that is making students consider all aspects of kung fu as seperate before they've even started. I think it's a terrible idea.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Hi KB,

I think just about every new (3-4 years in) instructor does this. Eventually the instructor (Sifu) realizes it (list of questions/interest areas/what they have studied prior) is not required. In fact it may scare prospective students away.

After teaching for so many years, I just read their body language (you would be surpized how much this gives away) from a distance. Have one of my senior students go up and ask if we can help them or I go up to the person. Depending on the reason he/she wants to join the kwoon, body lanugage and voice tone I will either accept them into the kwoon or advise them classes are full....no point in making someone feel bad or loose face. If a person tells me 'I just want to get into shape'...I tell them to go to a gym. I find my time precious and only want those in the kwoon who have a courteous attitude and wish to learn kung fu and are willing to work at it to progress. Joining for 'I thought I would try some kung fu', just does not cut it, because most likely in the next month or so, they will want to try swimming or rock climbing etc. I can be selective because I do not operate the kwoon as a business where you have to bring in the numbers.
Just my perspective and experience.

GHD

[nospam]

1) to ascertain their own interest I allow them to train with me. My style, my teaching methods, my look, my moves might not be for them although they still might hold interest in the MAs.

I'm not a proponent of the '..is this style right for me..' as far as I'm concerned anyone should be able to DO any MA. Plus, if they don't like my style and/or me then they can walk down the street and try another.

2) compatibility to my value system...for myself, I do not instruct nor try to impart my values. I am teaching a style of MAs and teaching people how to fight. The only time my values come to bear is if they become belligerent, then it becomes more of a waste of my time, not my values. Plus, I don't look for students to carbon copy myself - I'd be looking and looking and looking :D

So what I am saying is student survey's has no place in my MA. I'd rather have them spend the time in the kwoon and practising at HOME>

I'm also a neutral neutral sort of bloke.

nospam.
:cool:

[Laughing Cow]

Ao Qin.

I fully understant what you are trying to do, but think it is a waste of time.

The reasons why people join up at a MA class are usually not the same reasons why they stay in it for a long time.

Therefor to be fair to the students he should refill that form every 6 months or so.

Here is an example of how my current kwoon and others I know handle it.

1.) You walk in you are invited to join a class and train along.
Afterwards you are free to join or leave.

2.) My Sifu teaches Chen TJQ, period.
He doesn't talk/advertise health benefits, fighting skills or anything.

[David Jamieson]

I would personally use a method to convey a system.

If people find other side effects (which there are) to the training, then great!

I personally don't instruct, but I train and share with partners and learn each and every time I train.

I get the benefits of that training in many forms. From increased vitality to more mental acuity, etc etc.(at least, i like to attribute it to training :D ).

However, if I was to instruct, I have to admit I would be discerning about who I imparted what to. Then again, if they really want to know then they can certainly find out from other sources.

Anyway, it's your class AQ, run it like you want to run it.

cheers

[Ao Qin]

Good sweet lord - I just spent 30 minutes trying to carefully reply to all who took the time to respond to my post - then I submitted my reply, and I was "expired", and the thread, and all my work was lost. I am so discouraged! My apologies to you all. Kung Lek - maybe raise this as an issue with the Admin's? I do not play "speed chess"!

Anyway, I would just like to sincerely (but quickly) thank everyone for their kind insights and replies - I have learned a lot from those who took the time to contribute to this thread.

My main point - it is hard for an instructor to be all things to all students - sort of a no-win situation if you are confronted as to your "method" of teaching. I personally feel a (quality) student stays strictly based on your personality - not the excellence of your art or its reputation. Better to find out early on if your values are compatible. I don't keep the surveys - it is for discussion after training and tea, only.

Cheers - Ao Qin

P.S. - you are your values - you cannot try to be otherwise, and in a private setting, it is very transparent. A student comes and goes accordingly. How many students do you have who have been with you (and live in the same city) for over 10 years?

[Gold Horse Dragon]

That happens to me all the time, what I do before previewing or posting is to highlight what I wrote, right click on it and copy...that way I still have it when I have to log on again. Once logged on again I go the the thread and put the cursor in the area and right click, paste. After the second log on it works. I agree this needs to be fixed or perhaps it has to do with not allowing cookies or all of them?!
I think on the whole a student does stay because he likes the Sifu due to personality, values...but not always...and sometimes a student changes or reverts back to who they really are (after having tried to change) and at that point the student has a different set of values than the Sifu and would probably leave. I find that those who have such a different set of values than the Sifu and who continue to stay, start to cause problems in the kwoon. It is usually good for a Sifu and student to at least be in the same ballpark when it comes to values and beliefs.
Some of my students have been with me for 15 plus years, but on the whole there is a high turnover rate in students in any martial art school.

GHD

[nospam]

...indeed. And for a many great reasons.

nospam.
:cool:

[NeedsPractice]

I say this semi sarcastically:
What you need is a wall of shame. When I think of all the beginners i have seen come and go since i started training , its incredible. If i was a teacher i would get frustrated going over the same stuff only to have a handful of intermediate and andvanced students ,and everyboedy else fading away within 3 months or so.
Put up a wall of pictures of all the people who quit. For some it might be demoralizing for others it may motivate them to not be a quitter.
On the other hand the first couple of months can be really tough, the mental adjustment plus finding out after all those years how uncoordinated you really are, when before you may have only had a small suspicion. It maybe the first six months to a year are actually the hardest part of your training. When you are at intermediate and advanced levels you have already built up some endurance , and tolerance for pain. In the beginning you dont have any of that just some enthusiasm and the hope that you can be as good the guys that have already been there awhile.
Maybe the wall of shame should be the wall of honor for all the people who had the heart to try but couldnt quite make it

[Laughing Cow]

NeedsPractice.

JMA often uses something different.

They got Boards with ranks and each students of the Dojo is listed at his current rank.

You don't get listed untilyou pass your first test.

There are usually 2 Boards:
1 for kyu ranks
1 for dan ranks

Those are normally hung inside the trainings area over the doors, so that anybody leaving can see them.

Uses less space than the "wall of shame" and looks neater.

Cheers.

[NeedsPractice]

Yes i have seen that before.

[[Censored]]

I would ask prospective students about their general areas of interest, but I would not ask them to write it down.

And I would never ever train at any cult school with a "wall of shame".

[NeedsPractice]

[i]Originally posted by [Censored]

And I would never ever train at any cult school with a "wall of shame". [/B]


That is one of the funniest things i have heard all day, i like that.I think i will make that my new signature.

[Ao Qin]

What I'm suggesting is perhaps a teacher's personality is the primarly reason a student will come, or go. A "wall of shame" might look worse for the teacher than on students who "quit" for "no good reason"?

Censored - again, I ask they write it down for their own consideration only - I don't keep or see this survey - for discussion only! Although... now that I consider it...

It is certainly a complex issue. Perhaps somewhat easier for the "rock logic" folks on this board ("it's all their fault, not mine").

Toodles, AQ

[NeedsPractice]

Why people start martial arts training and why they continue are most lilkely 2 different reasons, and why they stay may often be for a better reason than why they started. However that is just one of those things that people may not understand up front.

So maybe the question to ask is not why you want to start training but why do you think you would want to continue for a couple of years, or more.

The teachers personality is definitely an important factor for me, I could stay in a school where i didnt respect the teacher as a person no matter how good a martial artist he is. Even though teachers are human I still like to believe they should set an example.