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fa_jing
03-14-2003, 12:15 PM
too bad IF isn't around, maybe one of you other's can help me?

As I was doing my bodywieght squats yesterday, in sort of a horse stance, I noticed that if I tuck my butt in, it shifts the weight distribution to different parts of my legs, and engages the abdominal muscles. Is this what y'all are always talking about with tensing the abs during deadlift and squats?

Ford Prefect
03-14-2003, 12:46 PM
Nope. If you tuck your butt in or round your back during a weighted squat or deadlift, you can injure the discs of cartilage between your vertebrae. This is one of the biggest no-no's of weight lifting and a guaranteed back injury sooner or later. When one speaks of tensing your abs during their squat they are quite literally talking about flexing your ab muscles. This will give your trunk a great deal more stability which can be quite helpful with a large amount of weight on your shoulders... :)

Robinf
03-14-2003, 12:51 PM
However, when some people tuck their butt in, they're actually correcting their body from extending their butt out (if that makes sense, my brain is mush, but I wanted to make the point that this one has to be seen--he could be correcting a flaw in his original form).

Robin

fa_jing
03-14-2003, 02:41 PM
Hmm. I agree that rounding the back too much would put pressure on the spine. Tucking the butt in a little less might be alright, like Robin said a correction since I naturally stick the butt out too much. There seems to be a range (very small) for which your spine is not stressed, and adjusting the angle of your pelvis seems to put more weight on the quads instead of the lower back. But it does seem like it would be unnatural to do so while lifting heavy weights ( I used to lift). I'm still curious how Ironfist managed to work his abs doing deadlifts and squats.

Ford Prefect
03-14-2003, 09:10 PM
Heavy deadlifts and squats work your abs a great deal. It's nothing unique to one person. A Zercher/Spider lift which is basically a deadlift motion with the barbell tucked into the crook of your elbows appears to be a lower back movement, but it is actually an abdominal movement. Once you start dl'ing a respectable weight, you don't really need to do direct ab work unless you are trying to maximize your strength gains or look good for the ladies. I doubt IF will say anything different.

Kempo Guy
03-18-2003, 11:19 AM
fa_jing,

I agree with Ford about not tucking your butt in during squats/deadlifts. For 'hindu squats' (bodyweight squats) you could perhaps get a way with it, but it is not a natural posture to tuck your butt in... Your spine should be as vertical as possible as you squat.

If you want to work your abs more or work slightly different parts of your legs with bodyweight squats try "Deck Squats". It's pretty much doing a beginner's back fall/roll exercise. Start standing then squat down (let your butt touch the ground), roll back onto your shoulder blades and rock back up to a standing position. Once you've gotten better at it, you can also jump up as you rock up.

As for tensing the abs during squats/DL's, I have been taught to do a 'reverse breath' prior to pulling the weight. I.e. when you take a breath you tighten your abs/diaphragm (instead of expanding your diaphragm during a normal breath). At the top of the lift you can do a short exhale and take another short breath in(don't let the pressure out of your diaphargm) before setting the weight down. This will keep your abs really tight and will aid in protecting your back as well as working your ab muscles.

Sorry for the rambling...
KG

IronFist
03-19-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Heavy deadlifts and squats work your abs a great deal. It's nothing unique to one person. A Zercher/Spider lift which is basically a deadlift motion with the barbell tucked into the crook of your elbows appears to be a lower back movement, but it is actually an abdominal movement. Once you start dl'ing a respectable weight, you don't really need to do direct ab work unless you are trying to maximize your strength gains or look good for the ladies. I doubt IF will say anything different.

That's pretty much what I would have said. But let me try to answer fa_jing's question anyway.

fa_jing said:
I'm still curious how Ironfist managed to work his abs doing deadlifts and squats.

Think of it like this. It doesn't work your abs in the way that crunches work your abs. It works your abs in the sense that your abs must be very tight in order to stabilize your body for the squat or deadlift. It also allows you to generate more tension and therefore lift more, but that's not the main reason you tighten your abs.

Plus, since we all know that when you statically contract one muscle, its antagonist muscle contracts as well, that means that when you tense your abs for squatting or dl'ing, your lower back muscles also contract as well. This gives you added support, tension, and other benefits.

So when I squat, I go like this:

Unrack bar, take step back, tense abs as hard as I can, squat, release ab tension.

Same thing for deadlift and bench. When I'm deadlifting, my abs are very tense before I ever start pulling up on the bar, and they stay that way until the top of the movement.

IronFist

fa_jing
03-19-2003, 09:42 AM
good answers!