Maintaining a good teacher student realationship while respecting each others views.

[phantom]

There are certain aspects of certain styles curriculum's that some people would take offence to. For example, some styles take part in mystical practices, like letting yourself get possessed by a dead person's spirit in order to do certain moves. This would be in great conflict with many people's religious beliefs. More people still would find such practices downright scary. Do you think that an instructor should respect a student's concerns about such things and continue to teach he or she without requiriing that person to do anything that he or she feels uncomfortable with? Or do you think that it would be disrespectful for such a student to refuse to do anything that the instructor says, thereby forcing that student to leave and go to a different school? Thanks in advance.

[dwid]

Demonic possession and possession by spirits of long dead masters seems such an integral part to any complete martial arts practice.

Honestly, I don't see how an instructor could, in good conscience, teach a student for whom such practices are off-limits.

You need all aspects of the game to be a complete martial artist:
standup/clinch/ground/invocation-demonic possession

[Robinf]

Teachers need to respect their students' needs. Teaching is a give and take kind of thing in the U.S.--in some places, it's different. In the U.S., you can't force people to do anything unless you want few students.

With that, students also need to respect the teacher and at least learn further about what's required prior to joining or while a student. If there are aspects of a martial art the student disagrees with, then perhaps that's the wrong art/school for that student. The student should respect the teacher and leave rather than forcing the teacher to create a new curriculum or change the current curriculum. Martial Arts isn't Burger King, you can't have it your way.

Often, if students aren't forced into trying something, then later on they actually try it. If not, then that student really does need to find another school that suits him/her.

Just opinion.

Robin

[David Jamieson]

dwid-

that's pretty dang funny, heh heh, still laughing :D

cheers

[SLC]

I foresee big trouble here for the "animal-styles". It is one thing to invoke possession from the spirit of a dead human. It is entirely another, however, when you start messing with dead animal spirits. PETA and other animal right groups are certain to take offense at this.

Hmmm. Would live PETA people defend dead animal spirits? Or would this be assigned to dead PETA people spirits? They will certainly need to check their bylaws.

[dwid]

I think its okay by PETA if you invoke the spirits of dead animals, so long as they are free-range spirits, and not spirits packed into little cages.

However, the more militant Animal Liberation Front may attempt to "liberate" said animal spirits from you, which would probably be pretty painful.

[Oso]

LOL

ok, ya'll of course realize that JAMA did an article on this very subject a year or so ago, don't you?

it is at least of part of some such ma practice somewhere.

they gave the village name in the article and I can't remember it now.

[Vapour]

Gee, what style do this possession thing?

Anyway, if you are muslim, for example, you might find many japanese martial arts problematic. We keel and bow to our instructor. They aren't allowed to do that except to God. Same with Judailsm, I think.

So what you need to do is to talk to your instructor. After all, formality is matter of respect. As long as you show that by making polite inquiry, I think there will be any problem if you are the only one which won't perticipate in that particular type of activities.

[Oso]

The article was in Volume 8 Number 4 1999 of Journal of Asian Martial Arts by D. Amos and M. Sun "Spirit Boxing in Hong Kong:Two observers, native & foreign."

I don't have that issue anymore but found this in the back issue section of a current issue.

can't remember any details as to style though.

[joedoe]

Should a student be forced to learn dim mak if they didn't want to learn it? Just like with any other technique, if a student does not want to learn something then they should not be expected to and the teacher should not force them to. Ultimately it is the student's decision to learn, regardless of what the teacher wants to teach.

[Serpent]

If a teacher tried to teach me some kind of spirit possession to do a particular technique then I'd learn the possession skills and then invoke the spirit of whoop ass on the teacher's stupid fukking head.

Once the teacher was well and truly ground into the dirt I'd leave his cult and go and find a proper MA school.

[Budokan]

There was another article about this very same topic in another issue of JAMA, not the one already listed. But we're getting ready for a move over here and everything's packed up. Drat!

The article was an eye-opener, though. It detailed how students inadvertently carry over the bad practices of their instructors due to distrust that invariably erupts in the relationship. They move off to start their own school, but still make the same personal mistakes (or create a few of their own) that made them leave their home kwoon in the first place. The article was written around a series of interivews with many students and instructors, and then collated. Good work, the stuff JAMA is known for.

Wish it wasn't packed away or I'd get it for you guys...but the one listed by Oso isn't the same one I'm talking about...

[Oso]

Budokan, any hints as to title or author?

I don't have many issues but I can check the back issue list and try and find it.

[Budokan]

I'm sorry, it's packed deep away. We're not moving for another 3 weeks or so, but I can't get to it now...I can't even remember which box it's in!

[Oso]

i meant that if you could remember any part of the title or authors name I would scan through the list of back issues in the back of a copy I have...I will anyway to see what I see...

[Budokan]

I'm sorry, I can't remember. Do they have their back issues listed on a website somewhere...?

[Oso]

http://www.goviamedia.com/

goto the JAMA link than the link to back issues

[Budokan]

VOLUME 10 ~ NUMBER 2 ~ 2001

Czarnecka, M. "The saga of the modern martial arts student-instructor relationship in north American schools"

[Oso]

cool, thanks.