PDA

View Full Version : Iron Palm



ope
05-18-2001, 10:45 PM
In our School Iron Palm consist of a whole system and not just a drill to strengthen your hands alot of people know it as just a drill.. im thinking the iron palm we do is southern i was wondering if anyone else knows it as a system and not just a drill..

Ego_Extrodinaire
05-20-2001, 01:35 PM
what does your system aim to achieve? could you describe what it consist of?

Maximus Materialize!

Sil Lum Palm
05-20-2001, 05:11 PM
The "Invinicible Iron Ore Skill" is taught at the school in which I attend. Its kept pretty secretive and only the instructors are allowed to train in its advanced stages, and even then in is done in a seperate part of the school where undeserving eyes cannot grasp it.
I know students treat their hands with mixtures of herbs and such that strengthen their circulation in their hands and limbs, as well as the application of an herb mixture known as Dit Da Jow. Dit Da Jow helps blood circulate and prevents blood clots and bruising.
"Wu Di Tieh Sha Chang Gong", is an ancient Chinese method that has been passed down from generation to generation for centuries. Monks, priests, and martial arts masters have closely guarded the secret of this skill.
The meaning translated, Wu Di means invincible, or matchless. Tieh Sha, means "Iron Ore", or iron. Chang means the palm, and "gong" means skill, ( As well as a few other things but skill will be used here ).
There are two types or methods of the authentic iron palm. One method is called "external- gong"; it uses muscle and brute force to accomplish the feats of strength, such as extreme breaking power.
The other method is called "internal" and uses no external force to accomplish its goals of strength. The internal method is what is offered in our school.
The internal or "nei chia" method is a "soft" gong. It uses the Chi Gung as its base, but also uses Tai Chi Chuan, for soft fist of self-defense and is also used for the promotion of health and prevention of disease.
Our School teachs Southern Sil Lum (Shaolin) , Five Family Fist ( Choy ,Li ,Mok ,Fut, Hung) and the Five Element Fist and Foot as well as other Internal Arts. ( Hsing I(yi) ,Tai Chi Chua , Ba Kua,)
I hope this helps a little , sorry its really secretive

ope
05-21-2001, 02:49 AM
i understand about the secreative part we have many ourselfs.. we have herbal formulaes and spacial training for hand strengthing etc.. we also have this but we also have forms for iron palm like in a system.. and there is plenty of spacial breathing in the form as well..

Sil Lum Palm
05-21-2001, 04:16 PM
There actually may be a few forms to the practice but I couldnt say for shure , since I very seldom get to witness the training. I'll look into it and see what I can find out. I know the forms mostly teach application and proper positioning for the strikes.

The Willow Sword
05-30-2001, 06:27 AM
ha just being a goof,,,,,yes there is a system of iron palm which is mainly geared for one thing. Making the body a crumpled up mass of callous and arthritis. when you get hit you cant feel it cause you have damaged sooo many nerve endings in your body that it just doesnt register to the brain. my school does it as well,and i have to say that i do not like it at all. reason? NO-ONE IS DOING IT LIKE THEYRE SUPPOSED TO. I RECOMMEND THAT ALL OF YOU GETTING INTO OR ARE ALREADY INTO THE IRON PALM TRAINING READ DR YAND JWING MINGS BOOK ON "Marrow/brain washing muscle/tendon changing chi kung" althoug im not a part of his organization i fully support and agree with (given my own background in anatomy and physiology) the methods that Dr Yang outlines for you in that book. READ IT.

Sil Lum Palm
05-30-2001, 03:26 PM
Read my post.. there are two types of Traditional Iron Palm Skill.. EXTERNAL ( which you are talking about and which I clearly stated I would not practice because of the scarring of the bones and skin tissue)and INTERNAL , which is taught at my school. The INTERNAL methods take much longer to learn because it is a method of cultivating mass amounts of chi that can be used for healing or harming, which ever the case may be.
My only interest in the Iron Palm technique would of course be the healing aspect , therefore EXTERNAL would be completely uselss to me , since it has no healing properties. Not to mention the fact that you could cause severe damage to your own internal organs by practicing the external method wrong. Many people look past the healing aspects of Martial Arts without realizing that there is more to it than fighting or preparing to fight. Some practitioners of the Martial Arts harbor no thought of fighting evern in their lives , I am one. So naturaly I would agree, if your gonna learn Iron Palm .. do it the right way and don't hurt yourself.

cagey_vet
05-30-2001, 08:23 PM
as accomplished and published an author and martial artist as
he is, i personally would not study the shii soei from
the writings. its not presented in a fashion thats
readily consumable and practiceable. pointed out
are merely singular techniques, and they arent
really presented together in a concrete progression
and if someone came to me and said they had achieved
a high level of 'hardening' from the books alone
then i would doubt the accuracy of the claim for
the aforementioned reasons. BUT his books are an
awesome jump point for known philosophies of the
whole energetics issue. simply INDISPOSABLE for
the theoretical content and reference material.

ope
05-31-2001, 04:01 AM
Our School Teaches iron palm but it consists of many forms and breathing excersise, we also have herbil recipies for soaking the hand...

The Willow Sword
05-31-2001, 05:20 AM
man i am such a dunce, i sometimes write things with the notion that people have enough common sense to understand without me having to go into detail about it....well okay,,,,,,,"make sure that when you are studying any system that you have a qualified and certified teacher to guide you through the process" "where as a book or video can contain valuable reference material it does not replace the hands on group/teacher instruction." :rolleyes:

cagey_vet
05-31-2001, 09:19 PM
at least i have the common sense to advise you
not to do what the book shows. theres no
methodology to the presentation, just explanation
of the MANY pieces of the puzzle that make this
whole thing possible

maybe you just lack the common sense to include
your own disclaimer, so hopefully next time you
will :P

The Willow Sword
05-31-2001, 10:43 PM
i have a background in physical therapy as well as anatomy and physiology,,i have been for over 15 yrs studying practicing and living the chinese internal systems of martial arts,,,I KNOW the iron palm training. my background in the other skills i have mentioned are have been 8 yrs strong and still going. hte basis for DR YAng's boook is not to FULLY show you the methods,,but the methods are outlined for you to follow in some respects,givin the fact that you are experienced and have the knowlege to do such methods,,,which i do. do you know how and why the medicine works? do you know the contents of the medicine and how to mix them? do you know why you train the fascia first and not start banging away on the post,bag of pebbles etc.? do you understand why you must have first been able to cultivate the chi and be able to regulate it to an extent before you begin with the external methods? did you also know that if you have a lot of fat surrounding your muscles during the ironpalm and iron shirt training that you can seriously damage the fascia which is what the muscles NEED in order to stay healthy? trust me i know what the process is and i knew it before i even opened up Dr Yang's book,,,,he just reinforced what i already knew. i could go on and on but then i would have to charge you for i am a CERTIFIED teacher and dont give it all out for free.

shaolin_knight
06-01-2001, 03:23 AM
I thought this topic was about iron palm? Where in Dr. Yang's book does it describe iron palm? It seems that everyone is talking about iron shirt. The sections on Yi jin jing are good though, if you know what you're doing.

The Willow Sword
06-01-2001, 03:37 AM
i apologize,,,when i think of iron palm i think of not just the hand training but the whole body,,as in forearms, shins, chest, stomach ,back. "iron palm" seems to be a term like kung-fu these days(could imply anything)...and yes i agree with your opinion about the other sections in DR. Yang's book.

IronFist
06-02-2001, 05:45 AM
"the whole body,,in forearms, shins, chest, stomach ,back"

You mean like the Wing Lam "Iron Body" video?

Iron

The Willow Sword
06-02-2001, 07:28 AM
nope i dont think so,,i did not know there was a video out that taught that. in the training i was briefly in before i came to my senses there was the post training,,where you hit the posts with your forearms and palms. the bag of beans(soybeans)why? cuase theyre cheap. as for the chest and back and stomach a paddle of sorts was used to strike those areas. i would use the iron slats of my iron fan to slap my forearms and upper arms.....for the shins we would use a 25-30lb iron bar and roll it up and down the shin bone edge(this freakin hurts) the shins would be wrapped with sport tape or ace bandage to prevent breaking of the skin.....then the medicine,,,,two formulas for the skin and an internal one for the internal bleeding that occurs. what does this video outline?,i am curious.

cagey_vet
06-03-2001, 08:13 PM
hey dude, even if you 'know what you are doing',
then why bother to use the book as a guideline
at all, because it is never stated 'do this, then
do this.. when this is done, then move on to this'.
if you know so much, then -you- write a book.

i am simply trying to point out that the author
has put together -techniques- that have been
previously used to obtain certain results.
there is NO flowchart or schedule, and by doing
one of these, and 2 of these, and perhaps not
doing this, you can obtain your goals...
do yourself a favor and get a teacher :) the book is AWESOME reference. but not a guide.

The Willow Sword
06-04-2001, 09:18 AM
Again i beg you to re-read what i have posted before,, i think that you are missing something here. as i have stated,,the book is a good reference guide,,thats what i was sugesting that people WHO ALREADY HAVE THE EXPERIENCE IN THE TRAINING SHOULD READ. never did i say that it was a complete training manual. based on what i know the things outlined in the book are solid and RIGHT ON THE MARK. Tell me cagey vet,,what experience do you have in the iron palm training?
i would like to know i would also like to know if there is a good walgreens nearby you for you need to get some saline solution and clear your eyes,,or maybe the lack of sugar to your brain is causing you to not SEE what i am posting....i apologize for having to poke fun at you,,but this is getting ridiculous having to explain myself evertime you get this notion to challenge what i know and what references i utilize. :rolleyes:

cagey_vet
06-05-2001, 07:53 PM
here is what you posted:
NO-ONE IS DOING IT LIKE THEYRE
SUPPOSED TO. I RECOMMEND THAT ALL OF YOU GETTING INTO OR ARE ALREADY
INTO THE IRON PALM TRAINING READ DR YAND JWING MINGS BOOK ON
"Marrow/brain washing muscle/tendon changing chi kung" althoug im not
a part of his organization i fully support and agree with (given my
own background in anatomy and physiology) the methods that Dr Yang
outlines for you in that book. READ IT.
end of what you posted.... anyways,
my iron palm is different than yours i am sure.
so we dont even have to go there. you cant verify my claims
and i cant verify yours, so i am ready to loan you some saline solution
now :) how about a slice of humble pie while we are at it?

The Willow Sword
06-06-2001, 01:07 AM
yes i will have a slice of it,,and i offer you a cup of organic green tea to drink with your slice as well. the results will show themselves with the iron palm training when you are much older,,be whatever age you are now. yes i know what i have posted. from what i have seen those who get into the training start out bashing away at their extremeties,,and those who build up all the chi in their system that have a lot of fat surrounding their muscles, do the same....just some advice from one who is experienced also,,,,
FASCIA FIRST,,get it strong and resilient.
massage therapy will do this for you,,for the first few months you should do this,,then modify the diet to rid the surrounding extra unwanted fat. hey just my suggestion,,,,,,,
many respects,,,willow sword

dfedorko@mindspring.com
08-17-2001, 10:08 PM
My Iron palm Brothers -

In Dr. Yang's book that Willow Palm speaks of so highly has a chapter on Yi Jin Jing Qigong Training and in this chapter are Fist Sets that will enhance your Iron Palm training. The book is very good. It should be part of your martial arts library.

Damian

dfedorko@mindspring.com
08-21-2001, 02:15 PM
My Iron Palm Brothers -

Does anyone know Dr. Larry Sanders out of Austin, Texas? I am inquiring because he has an Iron Palm/Iron Body(Shirt) book on the market and I was wondering if anyone read the book and if it is worth buying a copy. Any assistance would be appreciated.


Damian

dfedorko@mindspring.com
08-22-2001, 01:58 PM
My Iron Palm Brothers -

Can someone give me an honest answer as to why Iron Palm training,in some styles/circles, done in secret. Does it make a style/system more superior? Is it a sense of selfishness, could it be outdated thinking or greed. In today's world, Iron Palm training is demanding and, I feel, not too many people like slapping there hands in iron, getting their hands dirty, using jow/making their own jow etc. One does not train as as a warrior for survival as they did way back when. This is a factor, I believe that keeps us from uniting. The art of the Iron Palm will not be around forever and we should, if we want the art to continue, exchange methods, meditation techniques, jow formulas etc. Have a great day my Brothers.

Damian

cagey_vet
08-22-2001, 08:42 PM
there are several reasons why the trainings are secretive...
1. my family iron palm has stuff in it that has been propagated
in my family for generations. give it to someone else, and its no
longer a 'family tradition', thus removing some of the elements
that give us our distinctive flavor.

2. quite frankly, it gives the student something to look
forward to after tenure in the system. a goal to shoot for.

3. the combination of both 1 and 2 create an 'esprit de corps', where
we all know that very few people do this specific thing a
specific way... and it gives us a nice warm fuzzy feeling deep inside :)

take away stylistic, traditional techniques inherent to a
system, and it dies.
give away stylistic, traditional 'secretive' techniques
inherent to a system, and it dies because it gets
absorbed into other styles.
what if one day the BJJ mooks decide that they want to learn
iron palm, which was once mostly secret ages ago.
ok, a generation down the road they get hip to iron body.
is nothing sacred?
i expect very few people to understand this, typically
westerners, or those who havent been engrained in
being part of a special group that has high spirits
and skills.
keep giving things away and pretty soon we end up
with one big unwieldy martial art.
you cant create order from such chaos...
you can only hope to contain the chaos from spreading.

dfedorko@mindspring.com
08-23-2001, 01:32 PM
Thank you for the info. It is very much appreciated.

Damian