I dont know this war sure seems like christians vs muslems to me

[diego]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/commanders/us.command/index.html

^why all these guys white?.


http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/iraq/commanders/index.html

[joedoe]

Let's not go there.

Iraq is actually ruled by a secular leadership. The Iraqi foreign minister is a Christian!

[diego]

hm, didnt know that....but why are all those inpower in america white old men?.:D

just being a brat.

[Serpent]

Edit: Not getting involved actually.

[joedoe]

It is because we live in societies that believe that age = good/wise leadership. As for the white thing, I don't know.

[Brad]

Lt. Gen. John Abizaid was named deputy commander of U.S. Central Command in February 2003. Abizaid is one of the most senior U.S. military officers of direct Arab descent, born in the United States of a Lebanese family. As deputy commander for Central Command in the region, Abizaid will be the point man for operations inside Iraq and U.S. military relations in the Muslim world.

My uneducated guess ;-):
Also, remember Powell was in charge last time.

Most people in command being white is probably because of education. In general people in "white" neighborhoods are going to get better educations and have an easier time getting into places like West Point.

[GreyMystik]

without getting too politically charged here and repeating old cliche statements, basically because old white guys have ruled alot of the western world for quite some time now, and alot of them want to keep it that way.

of course, there are exceptions...

[diego]

Originally posted by GreyMystik
basically because old white guys have ruled alot of the western world for quite some time now, and alot of them want to keep it that way.


Hence my smilie face and brat comments,:( :cool:

[Merryprankster]

old white guys have ruled alot of the western world for quite some time now, and alot of them want to keep it that way.

IMO, most of them don't care--but we're talking generational change here. Segregation ended in the U.S. what, 50 years ago? The older generation of politicians hasn't even had the chance to percolate up and die yet. Cheney and Rumsfeld are still here--so is Ted Kennedy, and how long was Al Gore in politics?

Do some of them want to keep it that way? Sure. And some minorities are lazy welfare burdens, soaking up my tax dollars.

But that sure speaks more to individual flaws vice categorical ones, Dontcha think?

[diego]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


IMO, most of them don't care--but we're talking generational change here. Segregation ended in the U.S. what, 50 years ago? The older generation of politicians hasn't even had the chance to percolate up and die yet. Cheney and Rumsfeld are still here--so is Ted Kennedy, and how long was Al Gore in politics?

Do some of them want to keep it that way? Sure. And some minorities are lazy welfare burdens, soaking up my tax dollars.

But that sure speaks more to individual flaws vice categorical ones, Dontcha think?

depends if those lazy bums are like that because of those who kept the power structure unchanged:)...and segregation has really only been in working effect since the 70s tops mid 60s.
cheers :)

[Merryprankster]

Can't keep a good man down diego... I freely admit though, that society isn't perfect and there are some problems. IMO, they are economically, not racially related. This nation has proven itself as a place of opportunity for those willing to work hard.

Simply put, I don't buy into the idea that the power structure keeps people down, and I don't buy into the idea that everybody on welfare is there because they want to be.

Stop blaming the system (not you, just generally)--but on the other hand, there are some cases where race really did make a difference.

[DragonzRage]

This war has nothing to do with Christianity vs Islam. Religion is not a factor. Its about business...plain and simple. Its about making money for the oil men and the arms industry. But on the bright side, we will be ending the reign of a murderous tyrant. Its just sad that we put him in power and gave him weapons to begin with. This war will also get rid of a potential threat to American security and might be better for the nation of Iraq in the long run (although that depends on how well we handle the situation in Iraq after Saddam's regime falls). However, the threat has been greatly exaggerated as well. Unfortunately the U.S. has alienated many of its allies and compromised its position and credibility in the international community. And I have a sinking feeling that this is merely the first in a long line of messes that the Bush administration is going to get us into. As an American, I am very disappointed in my country's leadership and somewhat ashamed of the arrogance and blatant disregard for the international community the Bush administration has shown.

As to why all the people in power in the U.S. are old white men, the answer should never have been in question. America is very much a white dominant country. Although America allows enough opportunity for minorities to live well, be tolerated in general society, and enjoy a certain degree of success, minorities will never have a substantial base of power. The real position of influence and power in this country will always be reserved for a select number of rich White Americans who come from the right families and know the right people. The token minorities such as Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell just serve as window dressing. But no one who really understands America is fooled by it.

[ZIM]

IN YO' FAITH, MO FO!

[diego]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Can't keep a good man down diego... I freely admit though, that society isn't perfect and there are some problems. IMO, they are economically, not racially related. This nation has proven itself as a place of opportunity for those willing to work hard.

Simply put, I don't buy into the idea that the power structure keeps people down, and I don't buy into the idea that everybody on welfare is there because they want to be.

Stop blaming the system (not you, just generally)--but on the other hand, there are some cases where race really did make a difference.

Hm, its definatly about perspectives i guess. I have this indian friend who i havent seen in years and the last i heard was he is a crazy alchoholic, who i fear is dieng. His pops and mom are alchoholics and im sure theirs were also. now ive seen my friend and his mom just go at it like fuq you you little shiat i hate you blah blah, just back and forth...come twenty minutes later its all goodnight dear im going to bed. This was around 1995 orso. gonna ramble for a minute :).
almost every native who basically lives in a crackhouse has a cross and a picture of jesus up on the wall...they may not go to church every sunday like a proper christian but when life is hectic and they become flustered they get all god ****it help me jesus etc...so that says something about their sense of worth.

my last conversation i had with my buddy i was telling him about great natives in americas history and how native were not drunken idiots until whitey raped him...what does he say oh the natives were all crazy anyways...like dude has absolutely no self worth as a native. now hes not a wimp thats not the point of the story, the point is he doesnt give a fuq so he drinks and bums welfare.

i mean it shocks me his world view...oh my people were just dumb savages that got conquered by some pale gangsters my family are all drunkards, bums or criminals, maybe a few are a doctor or a lawyer...then he'll be like my buddys are all in gangs getting murdered or living in prison etc..so he's just like i need a drink and another...giving himself ulcers and shiat essenttially going to grow up to be a benchdweller-brownbag-bottle-swiller.

so in this day anyone born cant cry about slavery as its gone. but i feel whites prolly didnt do enough in the psychiatric/pshcological feilds to make sure all these desegragated and made to be not slaves were neurotically normal orsomeshiat...i dont know this issue is weird and interesting to me.

like you dont just say okay your free sorry about the last four hundered years and expect people to be all jolly thrity years down the line...like freedom was a blessing orsome shiat that they didnt desereve until they had it given to them. :)

i dont know but i do know many scam welfare but i also know our system still has many breathing outside it because of the fault of some sort of ignorance...i'ma leave it at that


get back to the more positive topics such as bush dropping bombs:rolleyes: :mad:




:cool:
peace MP Just felt like ranting their!.

[ZIM]

"Rum + savage = zero."
-DH Lawrence, paraphrasing Ben Franklin. :o

[diego]

Originally posted by DragonzRage


As to why all the people in power in the U.S. are old white men, the answer should never have been in question. America is very much a white dominant country. Although America allows enough opportunity for minorities to live well, be tolerated in general society, and enjoy a certain degree of success, minorities will never have a substantial base of power. The real position of influence and power in this country will always be reserved for a select number of rich White Americans who come from the right families and know the right people. The token minorities such as Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell just serve as window dressing. But no one who really understands America is fooled by it.

**** i knew that i just hoped that wasnt the answer :)

[Merryprankster]

Absolute garbage. The reason that the power establishment is old white males is because we haven't turned over the generations yet. People who got into politics as young men in the sixties are now what, maybe 60-70 years old? How old are most senators? Think about it.

When the generations turn over, so will the race mix. You can't make insta-changes. Deal with it.

[diego]

MP thats what many hope, it's just you read things like that article i posted by that white guy who's daughter dates blacks and he's talking about us and england will be no more soon boohoo.......:) so one tends to wonder how much power peeps like that have over government and corporations which could set it so race doesnt assimilatate with the generational changes of power, as these guys kids may always remain in the elite if they can get their way!?.

or maybe i'm trippin:cool:

[DragonzRage]

I have no problem dealing with it. I'm fine and happy with my life the way it is now. I don't need handouts and I don't need anyone's sympathy. But I won't be blind to the truth. I am an American. But being an American doesn't mean that you have to agree with America's mistakes or ignore its problems.

I'm not saying that all White Americans are racist or anything like that. But just like any other society, America has a wealthy power elite class who determine what happens in our country and what we do on the international level. This includes the big oil men who stand to make lucrative profits once we occupy Iraq, and the arms industry people who are being paid the big bucks to provide this "Operation Iraqi Freedom" with more laser guided bombs and tomahawk missiles to turn Iraqi cities into rubble. Once its all over, the same people who have smashed buildings and facilities all over Iraq are going to help "rebuild" Iraq. And of course, the Iraqi people are going to have to give up a substantial amount of their oil wealth to pay for this reconstruction. Its big business at its finest. If you actually believe that this war is being fought on behalf of the best interests of the American people at large, then you are too naive for your own good.

Now look at it this way: where does the American power elite come from? Its pretty much like any other caste system. The powerful and wealthy of today give birth to the powerful and wealthy of tomorrow. And its been this way ever since this country was founded. The select few who fit this pedigree have every reason to look out for each other's interests and insure that they keep making profits and stay in their positions of power. They stay rich by taking advantage of the poor and middle classes. Now how many of American elite do you think are minorities? Do you really believe that the inheritors of wealth and power are the descendants of slaves and manual laborers? Yeah right. Do you think its really in their interests to put people like that in power? Of course not. They're not going to give up their wealth and influence to empower those below them. I doubt that the rich become rich by fighting for social reform and equality. Its classism much more than it is racism. But let's face it, the vast majority of minorities are in the lower class, some are in the middle class, and maybe there's a few here and there that actually made it from rags to riches. But there aren't nearly enough of them to be able to substantially empower their people, and not all of them are interested in doing that anyway. Minorities aren't the only ones that are suffering. The white working class is being taken advantage of as well. The white middle class sure isn't going to gain much from debacles like this war in Iraq either. Some of their sons are going to come back in bodybags. The sons of the rich sure aren't going to find themselves getting shot at and suicide bombed alongside the Marines who are helping daddy's company get its oil money. But at least the white middle class still holds the privilege of being white in a country founded upon and dominated by white culture. Still, I have no problems with them and I have no problems with you. I simply resent the rich flag waving draft dodgers who have placed my brother and his colleagues of Marine Recon in the dangerous forefront of their little oil war. That's just the way it is I guess. God bless our troops and may they return safely.

P.S. KILL WHITEY!!!
(:D hehe, I'm joking by the way!)

[DragonzRage]

By the way, my brother's name is Captain Conan H. Chang of Recon Battalion, 1st Marine Division. Please keep him and all his brothers in arms in your prayers. Thank you!

[diego]

Originally posted by diego
MP thats what many hope, it's just you read things like that article i posted by that white guy who's daughter dates blacks and he's talking about us and england will be no more soon boohoo.......:) so one tends to wonder how much power peeps like that have over government and corporations which could set it so race doesnt assimilatate with the generational changes of power, as these guys kids may always remain in the elite if they can get their way!?.

or maybe i'm trippin:cool:

hm maybe im onpoint...did curious george really become prez because of his qualifications or did those honkys who put him into power think he was a pretty figurehead bringing back memories when their great satans i mean leaders such as bush sr, reagan, and nixon were in power?....things that make you go hm...oof oof oof onsome arsenio hall shiat!.:D

[Serpent]

Originally posted by DragonzRage
By the way, my brother's name is Captain Conan H. Chang of Recon Battalion, 1st Marine Division. Please keep him and all his brothers in arms in your prayers. Thank you!

Your brother is called Conan!? Dayum, boy, he'll be fine!

;)

[Merryprankster]

This includes the big oil men who stand to make lucrative profits once we occupy Iraq, and the arms industry people who are being paid the big bucks to provide this "Operation Iraqi Freedom" with more laser guided bombs and tomahawk missiles to turn Iraqi cities into rubble.

Uh-huh. It's all a vast conspiracy. The freemasons and Bildersburg group have ears everywhere. I'll give you a hint: "Angry Laser Monkeys." That should give you all you need to start. Good luck!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


Uh-huh. It's all a vast conspiracy. The freemasons and Bildersburg group have ears everywhere. I'll give you a hint: "Angry Laser Monkeys." That should give you all you need to start. Good luck!


And don't forget Sharks With Frickin' Lasers On Their Heads.

:D

[DragonzRage]

"Uh-huh. It's all a vast conspiracy. The freemasons and Bildersburg group have ears everywhere. I'll give you a hint: "Angry Laser Monkeys." That should give you all you need to start. Good luck!"

Wow, you should be a fukkin comedian, guy. If you want to be sarcastic rather than say something intelligent to back up your point of view, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and call it at that. I won't try to give you any sarcasm of my own. You just go on believing that there is NO SUCH THING as racial or social inequality in the GOOD OLE U.S. of A. Yep, this country was founded upon respect for the rights of all peoples in this world, and UNCONDITIONAL EQUALITY FOR ALL MANKIND:)
We can do NO WRONG and the poor have just as much of a voice as the rich! Our politicians and government are NOT INFLUENCED by the wealthy elite and big business because THIS country's government is BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE, AND FOR THE PEOPLE. RACISM goes against everything America has EVER stood for, so everyone should just forget the past AND STOP COMPLAINING. Aren't we all sick of those ungrateful, whining minorities always expecting handouts from you? You never did anything to them! JUST BECAUSE you're white they have to point the finger at you as if you're a racist and that you owe them something. But not me! I'm SO grateful to you for letting me live on your native land and always respecting my people and my point of view! And you know what? WHo cares if the world hates our country right now? We've never done anything wrong! They're just jealous of our power and success!

GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND THE ANGRY LASER MONKEYS !!!:D

[Serpent]

I thought you said you wouldn't try any sarcasm of your own.

;)

[DragonzRage]

"The reason that the power establishment is old white males is because we haven't turned over the generations yet. People who got into politics as young men in the sixties are now what, maybe 60-70 years old? How old are most senators? Think about it."

OH, so its the politicians who have all the power in this country! Thanks for clearing that up for me!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[DragonzRage]

Sorry Serpent, I guess I lied:D

[Merryprankster]

I was quite clear in my remarks and you chose to ignore them, hence the sarcasm.

I'll say it again, but I'll type slowly so you can comprehend it, okay?

I never said that race and class weren't issues. What I said is simple: Generational changes do not happen overnight.

Women got guarenteed sufferage only about 80 years ago, and sexual freedom in the 60's. Minorities have been protected by the civil rights act since 1965. Segregation has been officially over for only about 50 years. For me, that's history. For people I personally know, that's a MEMORY.

I used the politicians as an example. The senate, if you'll brush up on your obviously bad political history, has traditionally been the classic WASP club. But now we have some women in there, and some religious sub-groups. We have at least one Native American and a couple Asians, I am unsure how many Hispanics; I don't think there are any Black senators right now. Is this an ideal situation? Nope, but things are improving, and they will continue to do so. The house, on the other hand, looks like a mosaic.

I am fully aware that capitalists also hold a good chunk of power. I am fully aware of the disparate WASPy-ness there too. I am also, once again, forced to invoke historical context and remind you that generational changes don't happen overnight.

What I strongly disagreed with in your blathering was the idea that "things will always be this way because that's what the power structure wants." Horse****. It's that way because we are just NOW starting to see the first generation of non-WASP's who haven't been "kept down," trickle into positions of power be they political or socio-economic.

[diego]

Originally posted by Serpent



And don't forget Sharks With Frickin' Lasers On Their Heads.

:D

which is very COOL

[diego]

What does wasp stand for?.