Any of you practice Sanshou along Tai Chi class ?

[TzuChan]

Yeah, probably all the Wudang people do this, but see I have this problem. I learned how to block a hook punch right, but **** it still hurts like hell, I can't imagine how ****ed up I'd be if one hooks me in a fight, I'd be KO'ed in no time =/ I know for sure I'm doing something wrong. Does anyone have some detailed picture or something, of how you place your hands against your head when they try to hook punch you ? My teacher said something like 'They don't hit your head, they hit your body', but with me they hit my fist/lower wrist which sticks to my head, and daaaammmmmn !:o :confused: What exactly should I feel when I get a hook ? I mean I'm totally not doing it correctly, I'll ask for corrections next lesson, which is in a week, but if you guys could clear things up a little for me, before next week, that'd be great.

Thanks

[Liokault]

Well u already know I do sanshou with my Tai Chi (not a seperate thing but I compete in shan shou useing my Tai Chi).

Are you trying to do Grasp the birds tail? If so your hand should stop about 2-3 inches away (out wards) from your ear. You should be making contact with the "Hook" as early as is possiable and should be slowing it down till it finaly stops by your ear.

This is more for a big hay maker swing than a tight hook. If your against a tight hook its better to lay back (as in reeling silk) or duck/slip.

Also a hook is a close range movement and as such you should already have traped/clinched your oponent rather than trading blows at this range.

[TzuChan]

I'm not gonne start grappling with a dude twise my size just yet =) But could you show me a picture of how to do it ? I mean it really really is not worth blocking atm when I do it.

[Vapour]

You might find this interesting. Hope it help.

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/crescione/wcvsboxing.php#pagetop

[Repulsive Monkey]

Like Liokault, most people who do Taiji practice their San Shou within their Taiji.

[Stacey]

you probably aren't that far along.


a hook? Peng, Liu, cai, li, tsou, ko,

beng chuei, gao tan ma are also great for hook punches.

[Laughing Cow]

Our process in TJQ is along these lines.

Forms --> Tui Shou(Push Hands) --> San Shou(Sparring Hands).

Seeya.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Try a Buddha hands application.. with hands together over the heart as though praying, step into the hook (ie: if right hook, step with your right leg to the outside of the opponents right leg), launch the Buddha hands into the crease of the elbow, as you make contact part the hands.. the left hand slides to the opponents wrist extenting the hooking arm straight, the right forearm impacts the opponents jaw (at this point it looks like a left-side "fan-through-back".. the left hand, while grasping the opponents wrist pushes the opponents arm up and toward the opponent's back.. the right forearm wraps around the opponents head to secure a head-lock across the jaw as you twist the opponent's head to be looking at their right arm.. now, lift the opponent's head upward, cantilevering the vertibrae in the neck such that a minor snap could render a fatal dislocation of spinal connections.. nasty, but effective.. prior to the "snap", negotiations are recommended..

Be well..

[Liokault]

Repulsive Monkey



Like Liokault, most people who do Taiji practice their San Shou within their Taiji.


LOL thats just not true guy.

Most people who say they practice tai chi dont even DO tai chi.

I have fought a guy from zong ding under san shou rules (Repulsive Monkeys club/style) at a zong ding comp several years ago....he was a nice guy and easy to chat to so i went easy on him after it became clear that he really didnt have a clue what the **** he was doing!!!Wish i could remember his name.

He beat me in the moving step pushing hands which i found quite impresive as he was the first and last guy to do so (in a comp) for years.

[TzuChan]

If you follow Wudang, Dan docherty 'lineage' then sanshou IS a part of practice within TaiJi

[Ether]

TzuChan,
I think you miss-understood what Liokault was saying.....

**Complete off topic, why is your registration date showing as 1969?

[TzuChan]

Some error from the board, as you might have noticed alot of people have this date. Most of the people that registered a year ago or something (or two years dunno?) have that date in their account, check around, you'll notice many people wih that :)

Btw, anyone ever heared of Cung Le ? Omg I just saw some vids of this guy, so friggin great fighting omfg ! If anyone knows if this guy ever competed in K-1 or something, please let me know ;)

[Vapour]

Originally posted by Liokault


I have fought a guy from zong ding under san shou rules (Repulsive Monkeys club/style) at a zong ding comp several years ago....



Hhe? Repulsive Monkey's school is Zong Ding????!

I'm in Zong Ding as well but he called my teacher/school not having any idea about taijiquan in regard to cordinating one's breathing with the form. What's going on here?

[Liokault]

Its Zong ding or may be zhong ding...I dont remember.

I know quite a lot of them (mainly the guys in birmingham UK) but we tend to disagree about Tai Chi.
RM for example thinks that Due to the fact that Wudang Tai Chi is an effective fighting art that it can not be Tai Chi and must be mixed with some other form of Chinese martial art. While I think that due to RM's Tai Chi not being an effective martial art that its just not Tai Chi.

:rolleyes:

Hmmm we both think the others style is not Tai Chi ...may be we are not so differant lol.

[Vapour]

Originally posted by Liokault
Its Zong ding or may be zhong ding...I dont remember.

I know quite a lot of them (mainly the guys in birmingham UK) but we tend to disagree about Tai Chi.
RM for example thinks that Due to the fact that Wudang Tai Chi is an effective fighting art that it can not be Tai Chi and must be mixed with some other form of Chinese martial art. While I think that due to RM's Tai Chi not being an effective martial art that its just not Tai Chi.

:rolleyes:

Hmmm we both think the others style is not Tai Chi ...may be we are not so differant lol.

Hmm, if his school think taijiquan is not a martial arts, I'm quite sure that his school is not my school. I just went to my school's site. It's Zhong Ding. Hehehe, I didn't know how to spell my school's name. :)

I met one school of taijiquan who adamantly inisits on the line of taijiquan-not-martial-arts. I think they are called Lee style.

[Repulsive Monkey]

It's nice to stand back view conjecture turn into complete lies, but hey this is the way that fantasies go. I have never been a member of the Zhong Ding school so where Liokault gets this from I'll never know.
I have never said anything about fighting art and Taiji being seperate components, this is ludicrous. Especially as the art taught in our school is a fighting art, and I uphold the fact that out fighting art is none other than Taiji Quan.
And as I am not of the Zhong Ding school I can conclusively say that Liokault has never fought a member of our school.
Why Liokault chooses to make this up and fabricate it may possibly due to my debating with him in the past over the Wudang lineage, thats all.
The principal instructor is Dan Docherty, and as I recall I brought to mind a few occassions I had known and heard of him manifesting his infamous attitude/ideas to others about Taiji. This was one that I didn't care for much and it was this which sparked off some debate.

Bar that I was initially in agreement with Liokault in this thread and for some reason he has made this attack on me and my school.

I feel it is unjustified.

[Ether]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
The principal instructor is Dan Docherty, and as I recall I brought to mind a few occassions I had known and heard of him manifesting his infamous attitude/ideas to others about Taiji. This was one that I didn't care for much and it was this which sparked off some debate.


Not gonna get involved with any argument but I would be interested to hear what exactly you disagreed with that Dan Docherty was saying/ doing? Just in the interests of friendly discussion you understand....

[Repulsive Monkey]

Well, it was a while ago I encountered thought that Dan Docherty was opposed to the idea of Qi and not just in Taiji but in Internal medicines such as TCM. I always maintained, and still do, that Mr Docherty is a good fighter and from what I have seen of his students to , they carry the standards of his fightings skills too. But all I queried was his insistence of qi not having anything to do with Taiji.

[TzuChan]

My teacher has the same thing about chi I think, doesn't really wants to discuss it though, same thing with my WT teachers.

[Liokault]

I apologise repulsive monkey.

After a thread last year i thought i remembered u saying that your were Zhong Ding. Having looked back at the thread you were refering to a friend of yours who was either Zhong Ding or competed at one of Zhong Dings events.

[Ether]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
But all I queried was his insistence of qi not having anything to do with Taiji.

This often where ive seen tai chi practitioners disagree. I personally have had one teacher who did believe in chi (and 'used' it in martial arts) and two who didnt / dont. My peronal opinion is that Sifu Docherty's Tai Chi is marketed and taught as being very 'practical' and that the use of 'Chi terminology' and the associations that come with it would take away from that. But that is only my opinion.
I personally believe in CHi as a manifestation of good technique and focus. But i certainly dont believe in 'Chi power' or attacks / healing without touching. My mother in law is a Reiki master and I can honestly say that I have never felt anything during a treatment from her that would make me believe in the transmission of Chi (or Ki if you like). Im always ready to be proved wrong though!

[scotty1]

My teacher uses the Chinese word qi all the time, (he is Chinese). He doesn't mean it as some mystical concept, to him it just means breath I think. Although the problem is that we speak through a dictionary, so the dictionary definition may not be his exact definition.

But I know that when I'm doing a feeble peng he says 'qi' and he means for me to use my breath.

But who knows what the thinks really. I think to Chinese people the concept of qi is a bit more reality based than to some Westerners.

Anyway, side-track over, no I don't do Sanshou. :D

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Perhaps, if we substitute the word/concept "energy for "Chi" we can better understand the implications.. whether good technique or precise body alignment or focus, firstly it is directed and manifested through our use of "energy/chi".. we direct or intend something and using the "internal energy" within each of us we make it happen.. nothing too mystical, we do it all the time.. the issue, for me, is to refine that energy, practice the alignments and techniques and develop the clarity necessary to apply this training appropriately..

I sense that "mysticism" is assigned to the overwhelming sensations felt when we finally harmonize body, mind and spirit into a single act of living in the moment.. Whenever we have become comfortable with the harmony it's no longer mysticism.. it's "livin' large", assuming command of one's own life.. As for San Shou, once refined (harmonized) the energy is only mystical to those still struggling with body, mind and spirit as seperate issues..

Be well...

[Kevin Wallbridge]

The way martial artists use Qi is vague to the point of obscurity. Chinese medicine has the advantage of continued testability of the concept, while martial artists these days are reduced to playing rough tag games and folk-modelling.

"Between heaven and earth is Qi and its laws; between Yin and Yang is Qi and its laws." To put it another way "between structure and function is Qi and its laws." Not believing in the folk models of Qi is fine, I think they are mostly useless. However if Yin and Yang are understood then not believing in Qi is like not believing there is an interplay between structure and function.

I believe that the terminology is accessible and comprehensible. However people seem to prefer to follow the definitions that have come from a largely illiterate tradition that has undergone better than a century of disconnection from its functional roots. Keep in mind that modern teachers who don't want to use the classic terminology are as far removed from their own traditions as people of the West. In fact, in the West, martial arts have endured virtually no supression, while in China they have been targeted for persecution socially and politically as early as 1900.