Man, I went out to get the latest issue of the magazine

[carly]

and that crazy picture on the cover of the chi gong guy making a silly face caused me to think twice about buying it - is the facial expression caused by hidden weights stretching his genitals?

[Fred Sanford]

kungfu/qigong magazine is some of the best fiction/fantasy writing available. I won't buy the magazine anymore. F@ck shaolin and their monks too. who gives a rats ass about guys who hang crap off their balls?

[carly]

through kung fu I'm familiar with taoist practices and chi kung and and so on, but I was still turned off when I looked at that issue, and wondered if I should really bother with it anymore - it's silly and embarrassing to even be associated with stuff like this, or a lot of the people who advertise their unrealistic material there.

[joedoe]

Have you ever trained or sparred with a Shaolin monk? If not then you really don't have any basis on which to form your opinion other than the usual footage. I spent a day training with some Shaolin monks in China and I can assure you they are very good martial artists.

[carly]

good wu shu athletes, you mean, don't you?

[joedoe]

Yes they are that. However they also train traditional arts and are also very good martial artists. Have you ever touched hands with one?

[Fred Sanford]

spent a day training with some Shaolin monks in China and I can assure you they are very good martial artists

i'm sure they are :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[joedoe]

I knew I shouldn't have bothered responding. Believe what you want to believe. Everyone carries on about how you cannot judge martial ability unless you have touched hands with someone, then quite happily go and judge martial ability based on what they see. Forget about it.

[carly]

I just don't buy the whole government-produced whu shu shaolin monk marketing thing, ok? Sorry for not being naive enough or ignorant enough about martial arts for your tatse, but enjoy your illusions and the romance of the long-gone shaolin temple.

[joedoe]

Sorry, I don't see where I am being naive or ignorant. I was over there with my sifu who had been invited to bring the traditional arts back to China. I happened to be part of a group of students with him and he asked us to help teach them some of our training techniques. We spent a day training with the monks and found they were very good martial artists.

But that is OK, because you know better. :rolleyes:

[carly]

That's great that you showed them some traditional stuff.

[joedoe]

No problem. It just annoys me when people just write them off because of the stage stuff they see. They do actually train the traditional stuff alongside their wushu and they are very good both kinds of art. They are very strong, agile, and extremely fast learners.

I know for a fact that many masters have been invited to bring the traditional arts back to China. Hopefully in time the traditional arts will flourish again in China.

[carly]

Yes, but that tells the whole story - instead of putting these guys on a pedestal as something special, they are the ones who have something to learn from us, not the other way around.

[Brad]

Who's your teacher carly?

[joedoe]

I never put them on a pedestal. I always recognised that primarily they are good at wushu. However, my point is that they are actually very good martial artists as well.

Edit: BTW I think we can always learn something from others, regardless of what we think of their skills.

[Brad]

Anyway, being a monk doesn't make one good or bad at wushu. I've seen some that were downright aweful martial artists, and others who were pretty darn good(compared to a lot here in America at least). All being a Shaolin monk means is they're monks from the Shaolin Temple. There's still a ton of quality traditional martial arts in the mainland, but I guess if a few people want to ignore that because of a predjudece against modern wushu(usually from ignorance or anti-commie sentements), it's their loss.

[joedoe]

Well said :)

[Fred Sanford]

pinko's

[joedoe]

LOL. :D

Pinko's what?

[Water Dragon]

lol @ KFM getting ripped on its own forum

[Brad]

hehehe :D

[Fred Sanford]

i think some bak mei guys should go burn the temple down again, that would be totally sweet.

[carly]

I love the FORUM. Sorry about the magazine.

[Serpent]

Gene's listening, but he'll ignore you.

You see, there are more people willing to part with their $$$'s for fantasy than there are martial artists willing to part with their $$$'s for fact. The great capitalist machine moves on and more truths and realities are crushed under it's iron wheels.

And as for the Shaolin monks thing, any one of you who thinks they're just performers should go and train with one. If you can keep up with even a fraction of their training and conditioning regimen then maybe you've earned the right to cross hands with them. Then, and only then, come back and slag off something that actually know about instead of forming half-assed opinions from what you've seen on the tv.

[carly]

"there are more people willing to part with their $$$'s for fantasy than there are martial artists willing to part with their $$$'s for fact.".

[joedoe]

But fantasy can be so much more fun than fact, and sometimes it is hard to tell the difference :D

[Laughing Cow]

The is thread reminds me of the one story I heard some time ago.

Apperantly some guy in Tailand(methinks) decided to lenghten his equipment using a similar method to Iron crotch.

Maybe a starting weight of a few kg's wasn't the way to go.

OUUCH!!

:( :(

[tsunami surfer]

Maybe a ninja is sneaking up his butt. What was that noise behind me? OHH MY G---AAAAARRRRRHHHHHHHGGGGGG!!!

[GeneChing]

My connection was having problems this morning so I hadn't got the chance to reply.

First off, I welcome any criticism - that's one thing we offer that most magazines, schools or what have you in MA don't. Recently I replied to another criticism and in retrospect, I didn't mean to come off as if I did not welcome comments. However, I reserve the right to make comments on the comments. After all, that's what this forum is all about.

Now on to my comments. We knew that having GM Tu on the cover would be controversial - Iron Crotch is very controversial - but we've never backed away from that. In fact, as a publisher, we aim to be controversial, but not in a "start a fight between styles" sort of way. We have always worked to present the more esoteric styles. Now that's not necessarily marketable, in fact, many reduce sales, but we will continue to push the edge on this. It's just our way.

Now I'm not sure if it was the subject (iron crotch) or the expression that is drawing the initial comment. If it's the subject, well, ok, crotches are not what a lot of people like to talk about and we accept that. If its the expression, bug-eyed expressions pervade the arts. That I'm not sorry for. I'm more curious who actually engaged the article and what they thought of it.

As for the tangent into Shaolin, we've gone many rounds on this on the Shaolin forum and we are sure to go many more. Personally, I have a deep respect for any MA master, and I do admit to favoring the monks, but it's part my lineage. So sue me for venerating my own masters. Does Shaolin make more bank than the other styles? Well, not a fraction as much as TKD. If you're really after the cash, you're in the wrong style. Within KF, our Shaolin special issues are one of our most popular specials, and I don't think that's because of fakery. Something amazing has been happening at Shaolin Temple for the last 2 decades, something that we have never seen before in martial arts history, somethingwe need to document.

I'm curious for those who don't read us - what would you like to read? What would bring you into reading the magazine? Give me something constructive in your criticism and perhaps we can all progress.

[dwid]

Now I'm not sure if it was the subject (iron crotch) or the expression that is drawing the initial comment. If it's the subject, well, ok, crotches are not what a lot of people like to talk about and we accept that. If its the expression, bug-eyed expressions pervade the arts. That I'm not sorry for. I'm more curious who actually engaged the article and what they thought of it.

I for one find the idea of "iron crotch" to be part of the problem with people's perception of kung fu. Pulling a truck with your Jimmy is a parlor trick, just like no-touch knock-downs and the like. Iron body is one thing. You can condition skin and underlying tissue to be resistant to pain and damage, whatever... You cannot condition soft tissue like your genitals to be able to be undamaged by severe blows.

So, material like this just adds to the mystical mumbo-jumbo that leads people to disrespect kung fu as full of sh!t.

[GeneChing]

There are many martial traditions that speak of retraction skills so you can take a blow, or maybe I should say "strike" to the crotch. I've seen plenty of these demonstrations but I've never actually witnessed retraction first hand. Personally, I am open to this possibility, but skeptical of demonstrations.

As for truck pulling, I have witnessed this demo first hand by GM Tu. As I've said before, everything was revealed. I can't state that any more clearly. If it's a trick, it's a good one, one that I cannot figure out.

But Tu actually looks at this discipline more as a qigong - a vitality exercise with a few martial applications. In short, he doesn't do it for fighting necessarily. Keep in mind that our magazine is Kung Fu Qigong, so we occasionally cover non-martial qigong.

As long as there are guns, Kung Fu will not have the respect that it once commanded. But mysticism, as well as charlatanism are part of our martial tradition. If it offends you, take up another pastime. It will never leave us, because frankly, there are a few masters out there who can really do some magic. Not rabbit-out-of-your-hat magic, but kick-your-teeth-out-before-you-can-blink magic, and GM Tu can do that. Like I said in my cover story, once you get past his Iron Crotch, you'll find this guy is locked and loaded.

[TzuChan]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
kungfu/qigong magazine is some of the best fiction/fantasy writing available. I won't buy the magazine anymore. F@ck shaolin and their monks too. who gives a rats ass about guys who hang crap off their balls?

:D

[joedoe]

I have watched my sifu so iron shirt qigong, then proceed to take strikes to the gonads with no effect. He is starting to teach me the skills involved in doing this and I must say while it is daunting it does seem to work.

But it is nothing like pulling a truck with your wedding tackle :D :eek:

[@PLUGO]

what's your point?

[dwid]

But mysticism, as well as charlatanism are part of our martial tradition. If it offends you, take up another pastime.

This makes me sad. It seems like you are saying we should celebrate our charlatanism. No wonder so many people get disillusioned and leave the traditional arts. I guess all the people who are duped by the charlatans get what they deserve because they don't have the academic objectivity of people like us, eh, Gene?

[Kristoffer]

I bought only one KFM, it was a cover of Russel Wong (I think) and I bought it coz of a big artical about GM Chang. I was really turned off by all comercial and alot that looked pretty crappy. Sorry. I flip through it once in a while but it's always something that just look so redicilous that I always think "Are they serious?"

[@PLUGO]

Russel Wong?:
I don't think russel Wong has ever been on the cover of KUNGFU-Qigong Magazine...

Can you be more specific about the Mag?

You sure it wasn't Inside-Kungfu?

charlatanism:
I don't think gene was endorcing charlatanism me putting words in genes mouth here. It read to me that the debate about what is & isn't legit is as old as the Martial Arts itself. So it seems like part of fully covering the Martial Arts would include covering the debate on charlatanism as well.

[GeneChing]

DS is right and you'll note in the issue that we are discussing that there was an article specifically addressing the Physics of Breaking. The intention was to debunk. If you read the issue, you'll see that we attempted to cover this topic from multiple angles - Taoist, Buddhist, Military and Scientific. IMO, GM Tu is not a charlatan at all. He's very theatric, but he has genuine skills. In fact, that was a major point of the article, once you get beyond his theatrics, you find some really amazing stuff, real kung fu if you will.

Now, all magazines are commercial ventures, obviously. Of course we have ads. Of course we promote products. Magazine printing is costly. Who do you think shoulders these costs? I find it really odd when people say stuff like "they just do it to sell magazines." Of course, that's what we do. Do your criticise chefs by saying "they just do it to sell banquets"? Operating a business is never without compromise, especially in the newsstand. When you look at the other magazines that are on the newsstand, stuff like Maxim, Playboy, Sport Illustrated, Time, Nat. Geo., Cosmo, et.c etc. you realize how difficult it is for anyone to keep an MA mag on the newsstands. We do what we can to support the martial community. Just like this forum. We pay the rent on it. This is a big forum - it costs us several $100 a month to run - and that doesn't include the salary of our webmaster. Think about that for a while before you criticise us, especially if you try to take the high moral ground. Now I've stated several times that I welcome constructive criticism. But if you're just dissing the mag for sport on this forum, I'd really question your wude. Do you support the martial arts world or not? If not, why are you here?

More to the point, if you compare us with the other magazines, you'll find we have the best ratio of ads to copy at the lowest price. And we're true to CMA. If your point is that all martial arts magazines are bad because they are commercial, that's a funny point to debate and I'll love to address this. If your point is that our magazine is bad because we are more commercial than the others, I think I just refuted that.

[norther practitioner]

If it's the subject, well, ok, crotches are not what a lot of people like to talk about and we accept that
Geez, you wouldn't know it some times... :D


Good posts Gene and DS....

This argument has carried over many times, just usually with dojo/guan/kwoon/dojang instead of mag.

[Serpent]

It's cool, Gene. We love you, your mag and your forum, no matter how hokey you might seem sometimes. :)

[Stacey]

My Sifu has me pull on his nutsack after class. He is teaching only me and another female student because we aren't all stiff like so many of the others. He at first becomes aroused, but then recirculates his vitality and glows. By tugging for him we get a chi boost. I know you guys will say that its sexual, but its not. Its very focused and it allows us to focus our sexual energy into our training.

[Serpent]

Welcome back Stacey, resident she-man.

:rolleyes:

[@PLUGO]

. . .:rolleyes:

[No_Know]

"I just don't buy the whole government-produced whu shu shaolin monk marketing thing, ok? Sorry for not being naive enough or ignorant enough about martial arts for your tatse, but enjoy your illusions and the romance of the long-gone shaolin temple."

If you don't value the recent stuff there's the thousand year old type stuff. If you can no longer use Shao-Lin then ...whatever.

I think Shao-Lin was about change. An eternal young forest with not to many trees. A Dragon that acts as a Phoenix. Strength with Wisdom. Delivered in Humility (one of the twelve Gene (do not boast:-)))

I think Shao-Lin was not supposed to be the best per se, but had an irregularly high percentage of students that were better than O.K.

Perhaps Carley you can't get really good by trying. Shao-Lin people got good (strong, healthy learned... because they were trying to pray~). Perhaps let Skill be a by product of living.

"through kung fu I'm familiar with taoist practices and chi kung and and so on, but I was still turned off when I looked at that issue, and wondered if I should really bother with it anymore - it's silly and embarrassing to even be associated with stuff like this, or a lot of the people who advertise their unrealistic material there."

It seems more moody or peer pressured than validly through with Kung-Fu. I might think you've seriously had questions and gotten remarks from No_Knows or jokers who were kidding or didn't know better than to joke. And you believed their kidding as actually addressing your question seriously. And at least some of it is, you're not sure.

"Man, I went out to get the latest issue of the magazine
and that crazy picture on the cover of the chi gong guy making a silly face caused me to think twice about buying it - is the facial expression caused by hidden weights stretching his genitals?"

It looks as though his legs are folded in front of him/ There's no place to hang weights as he is on the floor~.

Carley I noticed the hand figure more than the eyes. It reminded me of someting I liked from Ninjitsu practice (Illusory/romantic? :-)), finger knitting.

Gene, I read other stuff first. Made a form from what The guy on p13 said. (Half or so of a form) Meridian qigong of Squirrel, basically.

A little bit of Science with this persons training. Nifty. It was nice reading. When I would like a story, I would read it all the way through.

[GeneChing]

np - Do you think it's the crotch? ;) You know, I really grappled with what to call this. In my first article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=315) I went for the title Iron ***** - strictly for the shock value of the word ***** - I mean it's a medical term, but is anyone really comfortable with it? Not our censors :rolleyes: . But I shifted to crotch because it seemed more tastful. During our benefit, one reporter used the term 'pelvis' which didn't get to the heart of the matter. Of course, any slang term won't work at all.

serpent - hokey? hokey! Why I oughtta get you to buy more stuff at www.martialartsmart.com.

stacey - Weren't we supposed to have some sort of challenge match by the neighborhood bridge a long time ago? Now that I know about your special training, I relent.

no_know - Finger knitting - never heard that term before. It took me a few tries to figure out that cover mudra, but I've got it know and have experimented with it in meditation as prescribed in the article. I like it. I'm not sure that it's such a great qi lens, but it's a good point of focus during meditation and it seems to help with finger flexibility and strength. That nine mudra thing reminded me a lot of ninja mudras. I couldn't follow that stuff at all - way too esoteric, but interesting in a taoist cabalistic sense.

[@PLUGO]

Years ago I illustrated a comic book that featured the "ninja Finger Threding" or "ninja mudras" or whatever.... maybe I'll scan the page & post it...

as for Iron Crotch... better than calling it Iron Crouch

;)