Pong lai's reputation

[daohong]

There are a few things I wanted to mention about pong lai. First, however, let me ask a question to the group about a title I recently heard about. Do most people know about the publication "Mantis Quarterly" and whether or not it is available in chinese , english or some other language?? Now, on to Pong lai... I think that most people would agree that pong lai has developed a repuation of extreme confidence and perhaps, at times, arrogance. I happen to share this view of pong lai students and practitioners even though I consider myself among this group. Many people who study the "pong lai" orientation of PM claim that noone else can use gong fu as it was intended to be used. I hear a lot of talk about "kicking @ss" and the like. This maybe because Shr lao shi has a unique personality that has fascilitated this type of attitude in students and students of students. I wanted to open up the floor for people to be open about the greatness of pong lai as a martial system while making it clear that it is entirley unnecessary to carry such greatness with an arrogant spirit. Nonetheless, I will continue to study with pong lai as long as they will have me. I appreciate people like Tainan Mantis who seem rather humble in every post they make. This seems more in line with the martial spirit, and it is good that pong lai has such people. My exposure to pong lai people is limited to my area, however, so I want to hear what others have to say about their encounters and impressions in other areas... including this message board.

[yu shan]

Pong Lai`s reputation of confidence and arrogance starts with the source. Shr ZhengZhong is an extraordinary Grand Teacher. Please research 18 Elders bio of Master Shr! The man backs up his bio, talks the talk and walks the walk. Twenty four/seven all about gong-fu, applications and fighting theory of Mantis, and basically kick your ass approach. He will be here this summer, more to come.

Explain your comparison of "humble and martial spirit"?

[Kris]

I am just about to start training (I don't have any experience what so ever). Next week I am attending 2 classes, one at a Silat institute, on at Pong Lai. (I live in Tampa) I am leaning toward the Pong Lai but I have seen a lot posts about the 'Pong Lai vs Wah Lum' etc.....

As I mentioned, I don't know the difference between the two, and can't tell you they differ from Aidido!

But.....

I don't want want to walk into some type of 'machismo' crap because I belong to a certain school. I really just want to train. I am kind of getting that impression with Pong Lai.

So....is my impression justified? Does every school have this view on their art? Or maybe just one or two guys in the class with this point of view?

Anyway, any input is appreciated.
Kris

[NorthernMantis]

Hey dont' worry about things like that. Though things are like this online it's actually very few people who are in these debates. The majority doesn't even bother themselves to get into things like this and I'm willing to be that they have a very open and friendly enviroment there. Just go try out the calss and see if it fits you.:)

Oh and I'm on the wah lum side by the way. I have nothing againts pong lai as a style. I just don't like people telling bath mouthing my art.

[daohong]

Yu shan..... and Kris

When I mentioned humility as an important characteristic of a martial artist , I felt (and still feel) that I have somes support for my belief that martial arts has always been studied (in china and taiwan anyway) in conjuction with a moral and philosophical outlook that shapes a whole person. Students were not weekend warriors, but people studied a way of life that included more than fighting. The concept of Wu-de fascinates me and I see that there are virtues to be cultivated from the study of martial arts.... among them humility. This seems clear from the religious influence that went into the development of gongfu including chan and more primitively, daoism. But even Taichi is more clear without having to bicker about histories. The three major movements in Taichi derive their names from the chinese characters for friendship, peace, and harmony. My point is simply that there is an underlying philosophical aspect of the chinese fighting arts that makes them more than a kick @ss tool.
------------ Hey kris....
Silat is very interesting.... you probably know that it developed in Indonesia, and is most likely a mixture of gong fu styles that came there from China. I am not one to doubt that fighting arts can develop independently in different places at once, but silat is most likely not one of those. It is very interesting though.... and it might give pong lai fellows a run for their money in a fighting situation, but I will keep studying with pong lai scholars. By the way... the word "scholar" is interesting. I may have just used it too lightly, but it hints at what i meant in my post to Yu Shan. Where have the scholars gone??? There are some still.... and I am glad for that.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Kris,
Have you already dismissed the Wah Lum school in Tampa as a possible place to train? I'm not familiar with the Silat school there but I do like the style from what I've seen. Apparently the Wah Lum and Pong Lai schools have a different focus and way of training. I would suggest having a look at all of them first to decide which is better fit for you.

[SaMantis]

daohong,

thanks for your post. Like NM says, while there is a lot of bickering on this board it's only between a few of us (myself included) compared to the numbers of student at both PL and WL.

I don't have anything personally against the PL system, in fact I'm sure they have an effective method of study and good techniques, just as my school does.

Now I'm sure that last statement will have yu shan in here in about 2 seconds trying to tell me my system isn't effective. And that's really the problem. Not that PL isn't a good school, but that certain members have decided to badmouth their old system (WL) and bring their new system into it. This isn't just PL students but a (very few) other folks who felt slighted by their WL experience and have a bone to pick. Note that I say "few" because other ex-WLers come on regularly and are honest and also share good info about mantis in general without resorting to negative badmouthing.

Tainan Mantis is very knowlegeable and obviously well respected on this board and in the "real world." I'm sorry there's bad blood between the 2 systems because much good information could be shared otherwise.

[Kris]

Actually I looked into the Wah Lum school in Tampa (didn't actually visit though), It seems like a good school. I think it is just a little too far away.

Thanks for the replies! I am checking out both schools next week and I will keep you posted on which I choose to train at. I am really excited about starting, obviously a little nervous.....I just know that EVERYONE in there started training at the age of 2! :eek:

Just kidding there....

Kris

[Jade Mantis]

dao hong, I have been studying pong lai for a little over a year now i went in with no experience and learned quite alot iam also alot more confident with myself. as far as this thing with pong lai and wah lum i have no idea never studied wah lum but i can tell u that if u decide to study pong lai u wont just learn one style of praying mantis but several different styles of mantis including shaolin long fist. overall its a great school to join.

[daohong]

Jade Manits,

I found your comments very inviting and polite. Thanks..... I also appreciate pong lai a great deal and I am learning a lot there. I mentioned in my first post that I am a "Pong Lai student". Not for a long time, though..... I spent some time other "places".
Looking forward to more posts.

[bung bo]

Kris,
since you're in tampa, i highly suggest going to see john scolaro at the pong lai school. you will not be wasting your time. he is a phenominal martial artist and all about application. i met john scolaro a few months ago, he's intense. i,ve only been training in pong lai for a short time, but i feel like it's taken me a long way

[Taz]

Kris,
For me studying Pong Lai has opened up many important avenues of martial arts training that I was made to believe required a metaphysical level of training when infact; requires an assortment of drill training. The specific topics include: applications, jing, fighting techniques (ie. closing the gap, which techniques to use, how to defend against certain attacks, and moving off line of attack). All of these are trained with a variety of drills and are discussed on theoretical level as well. Our shrfu is very open and answers all questions by demonstrating the skills and how to learn it. I also enjoy the open mindness of Shrfu John with learning and discussing other fighting techniques and styles. Looking at what others can offer to improve training including videos, books, and seminars. And this includes everything even if it's outside CMA. Lastly, I find our school is not entrenched with cliiques and groups of students, but more of a family atmosphere. We discuss our views and repect each other's opinion and right to have an opinion.
Finally, for those on this forum who misinterpret ****iness with questioning, I apoligize. But, I believe that what this chat line is for. Just respect the ability to disagree with one another. I also believe that no malice was intended to WL practiceners, but when answers to questions you have been searching is revealed to you- you want to share this with others and show them the path taken so time can be best spent. However, I believe the Chinese proverb bests explains human nature:" that the master appears when the student is ready. Only when you can formulate the question can you find an answer.
I hope this helps.

[Josh C.]

I have been a student of Shi Zheng Zhong for 3 years now. Although this is not a very long time in the big scheme of things, I have made some observations that might be useful. First of all Shi Zheng Zhong teaches many more aspect to kung fu that "kicking ass". I have heard him say that what he teaches is chinese culture and if you want to kill someone, just get a gun. To say that he is "all about kicking ass" is a misrepresentation.
Shi Zheng Zhong has been known to be confident. I think it is important to remember that he has 40 + years training experience and thus consideres himself the worlds leading expert on praying mantis. Many of his students also believe this is true. I on the other hand am only 28. I have eight years of kung fu experience. Though I am fortunate enough to study under a very qualified teacher it does not make me an expert. In addition, I hope to one day open a school and out of respect for my teacher I will open under the Pong Lai name. I hope that the name will not be tarnished beyond repare befor I get the chance.