View Full Version : Black Sash: Up or Down?
_______ 23 Bo Falling Away
___ ___ There is only 1 solid line at the top of the gua; the
___ ___ remaining 5 lines are all yielding.
___ ___
___ ___ The firm rests on the soft; obviously the foundation
___ ___ is not solid
All the Yang elements have been nibbled away by the Yin, one after the other. Now the five Yin are approaching the Yang at the top. They are strong enough to cause the moral degeneration of the Yang.
Courtsey of Taoist Master Alfred Huang, The Complete I Ching.
What a series!
Too bad for Russell Wong and bagua in general!
Waidan
03-30-2003, 11:24 PM
That show made me sad, and somehow nervous.
If I had known Bettys like that would show up and work out in halter-tops, I would have opened my own school by now.
You hit it right on the head. My first reaction was sadness.
Russell Wong seems like a decent sort and the potential for using bagua as the main art is novel. Also too much "breast" training and not enough traditional art.
They could have set the stage in the 1800s in mainland China and had them as a bodyguard/shipping company, leading caravaans from city to city, region to region, mountain area to mountain area and framed it along the lines of the old classical show Wagon Train. You could move characters in and out so easily and tell the story of a thousand adventures through the eyes of the passengers. Could have had beautiful scenary from Canada (where they film it, I believe). They could have entered specific regions where particular arts and customs prevailed, e.g. Xian and XingYi, as part of their route. They could have moved along the Silk Road and had encounters from the mideast or could have had encounters with Europeans in the coastal cities. It could have caught some of the trailings of Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon.
Instead they chose to modernize it along "politically" correct safe routes. Same stale tales of modern western kids that you find in everyone of those new sitcoms. Other than Russell Wong, the characters are boring and the moral teachings are so blatant its impossible not to laugh. The music never stops.
Oh well, saddness but what the hell, this won't last 4 episodes and a new take will be on the make.
I'm smiling already!
count
03-31-2003, 08:11 AM
Let's forget about the fact that the bagua was corny and weak. They are only actors, after all. Or supposed to be. Let's forget about the unrealistic class make up. Let's forget about the same old sentimental conflicts and tensions. Let's forget about the split screen attempts that had no continuity. Let's forget about Mako. Let's just forget about the show.
That floor where Russell Wong tested for his black sash was ****ing cool.:p
Ford Prefect
03-31-2003, 12:20 PM
Haha! I knew I could come on here today and see people whining about this show. Some things never change.
Rockwood
03-31-2003, 02:39 PM
NOw gang, we don't turn to TV for deeply inspiring and meaningful learning experiences. That's what books are for.
TV is for babes, car chases, explosions, angst and action (and Pentagon approved propaganda reports)!!!!
Which is why Black Sash Rules!!!!!
If you don't like corny trashy absurd bs then dump that TV in the trash can, where it belongs.
Meanwhile I'll be soaking up every last episode of Black Sash appreciating it for the mind numbing wonder drug that it is.
I'm sure it won't last long, but this is the best TV EVER and I refuse to miss a minute of it!!!!!!
-Jess O
Waidan
03-31-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Haha! I knew I could come on here today and see people whining about this show. Some things never change.
Hrrm...not sure where (or why) it was directed, but that seemed like a shot. :eek:
My thoughts....
I liked this show quite a bit. Pretty good, compared to what has been shown as kung-fu on t.v. in the past.
What real man complains about hot young chicks in halter tops ?
At least what they showed was mostly ba-gua instead of 'movie kung-fu'.
Was that Tim Cartmel I saw in one scene ? I read that he helped on most of the ba-qua on the show. I also noticed a bjj sweep at one point.
Waidan
03-31-2003, 04:44 PM
I didn't like much of the bagua they showed, but I'm probably just being nit-picky. It gets under my skin when things I enjoy or feel strongly about are misrepresented (particularly in a mass-media format).
I must say though, the way Russell laid his bike down on its side so it would crash into the bad guys, then lept into the air, grabbed some sort of hook-and-pully apperatus, and did a flying double-kick into the crowd...that's just how we practice it in class ;)
Phantom Menace
03-31-2003, 05:13 PM
In the fighting scenes they showed wushu stuff. The only real ba gua in there were the forms from the Gao style.
Waidan
03-31-2003, 05:22 PM
True, for the most part. I did see an "effortless combat throw" against Drunken Father, though :)
Hey, Ford Perfect, I give the depth of the Yi Jing, the reading, the guidance. My fortune telling is superb and beyond this realm. I can predict the path of the Black Sash.
All that folds unfolds.
Waidan
03-31-2003, 07:04 PM
The interesting thing, however, is that what is unfolded never folds back up quite right. I have a number of road maps I can cite as evidence.
GroungJing
03-31-2003, 08:44 PM
I liked it
It's good to see someone of a Chinese American decent play a leading role.
As far as the Bagua goes, it's just Hollywood.
What did one expect.
I can think of many ways the show could have really sucked.
I like to look at it this way
Its a Internal martial art on TV looking all "Bad to the Bone" and full of Whoop AZZZ!!!
I dig it. (yet, I don't practice Bagua)
The public don't know what's real or what isn't, If you study Bagua the public will think your a skull cracker and hang with hot chicks.
Cool, yes?
I think its good Bagua PR and a good action entertainment show, nothing more.
maoshan
04-01-2003, 08:49 AM
it depressed me.
Great for promo, but still......
Phantom Menace
04-01-2003, 10:48 AM
You people just don't understand.
The original writer wanted to showcase real Ba Gua. The producers wanted to just make it a generic wushu/karate type. The star of the show wanted to show more cool martial arts. The producers wanted to stick with a formula. If the show sucks it's because the producers would not let it be what it could be. Remember the guy who conceived of the show was the same guy who wrote the first Karate Kid movie. He is really into Ba Gua and wanted a show about Ba Gua. Unfortunately the producers write the paychecks and what they say goes, I guess.
Then a thousand curses on the producers for their blindness and inability to take a strong hint from Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon.
These producers seem have a "Buffy the Vampire" mindset and don't know the meaning of saturation.
wingchunner
04-01-2003, 12:58 PM
... they still could turn it around to showcase traditional bagua. It may make the story line more interesting, add depth to the show, and still be very entertaining. I wish I could get on the writing crew. :cool:
Have a great day.
Marty
TaiChiBob
04-07-2003, 04:25 AM
Greetings..
You gotta figure the marketting people did their homework.. they researched and found an interest in this subject.. "internal arts".. The real problem is the wannabes that will see this as another gimmick venue to lure money (students).. i predict you will see a bunch of new "internal" teachers at a bunch of "MacDojos" trying to capitalize off the show.. Ideally, it would inspire people to seek qualified teachers, but.. well, we all know human nature..
I like the show's concept, but find the presentation and content lacking.. i'd like to see someone standing in the background in a low horse-stance wuji meditation for the first 1/2 hour of the show.. but, it's entertainment not documentary..
Be well...
TaichiBob:
Hmmmmm, the marketers might not have done their work so well (I guess ratings will tell). It seems that so many of these sitcoms are missing their mark and being cancelled left and right. Maybe these guys reflect too much of their take on what audiences want rather than some hardcore survey work. I bet they didn't even do a pilot study screening among various demographic groups.
I watched the second episode and I see the Karate Kid influence of sorts. Its a shame they took and used the art of bagua for such a shallow story line (first Karate Kid was pretty good because of its strong focus on the relationship of Master/Student and overcoming difficulties of an individual life). Other than the bagua symbol, the general public could care less whether it was bagua, karate, or boxing. I am surprised they didn't make it a kickboxing course with guest appearances by Tai Bo.
Its a shame to waste the talent of Russell Wong. Under the right story line and director he makes an interesting character. His Master/Teacher just doesn't cut the mustard and a paragon of wisdom.
All this folding and unfolding seem more of a self-statement about the show itself.
count
04-07-2003, 06:26 AM
Was last nights episode the exact same story as the first one with the roles switched around a bit? At least they left out the split screen which was not only ineffective and misused in the premier but annoying as heII. One thing we can be grateful for is in two full episodes, they have not uttered the word bagua. :o
dezhen2001
04-07-2003, 06:32 AM
i was hoping it would be decent and maybe even get aired in the uk but i guess not... oh well...
dawood
One thing we can be grateful for is in two full episodes, they have not uttered the word bagua.
They haven't?! Man, that sucks. I watched the show last night(missed the first episode) and thought it was OK. My mom really liked it, but I think most of us were just excited to see a show revolving around members of a kungfu school, lol. I can't believe they haven't mentioned Bagua yet though. So all these people joined a kf school and the tacher hasn't even told them what they're studying?? :D It does seem whomever is incharge just wants to use martial arts to lure unsuspecting teens into watching another Dawson's Creek :(
Maybe these guys reflect too much of their take on what audiences want rather than some hardcore survey work.
Or maybe they over-researched, and came up with the exact same thing they did every other time, lol. This is probably the kind of stuff they've found out wealthy sub-burban kids like.
On the upside, the more people see this show, the fewer people will look at me weird when I'm circle-walking outside.
On the whole, I agree with the majority of sentiments here. It is not a particularly good show.
Still, I dislike over 90 percent of the content on TV, so there are dozens of shows I'd like to see cancelled before this one.
Well, tomorrow, its back to 24.
Maybe Kiefer Sutherland will use his art again.
Hope springs eternal!
TaiChiBob
04-07-2003, 07:42 AM
Greetings..
24.. most intense show on TV.. even better than the War..
Rockwood
04-07-2003, 01:08 PM
Hi Guys,
Loved that episode 2!!
My point is that this isn't a show for us. This is a show for the whole family, mom, dad and the kids, who know nothing of internal martial arts. There's strong female characters for sis. Theres kungfu fighting for bro. There's some cute t&a for dad. And some emotional content for mom. ya can't go wrong!
We are reminded once again that 99.99999 percent of the world doesn't really care if Dong Hai Chuan created bagua. However, the lessons of constant change apply to all of us... who watch BLACK SASH!
Not that you should change the channel, however much you might want to... :)
-JessO
Waidan
04-07-2003, 01:14 PM
The Cosby Show. Now that was family programming. Better kung fu than Black Sash as well :)
Still, I dislike over 90 percent of the content on TV, so there are dozens of shows I'd like to see cancelled before this one.
Me too... I'd still watch this over survivor and all it's offspring :D
My point is that this isn't a show for us. This is a show for the whole family, mom, dad and the kids, who know nothing of internal martial arts. There's strong female characters for sis. Theres kungfu fighting for bro. There's some cute t&a for dad. And some emotional content for mom. ya can't go wrong!
Yeah, my mom loved it! This'll probably turn into a show my whole family watches on Sunday nights, as it's the only time I really get to sit down and watch some tv, lol.
Okay, okay Rockwood.
Watched the 3rd episode. Yeah, it has some potential. I forgot what it was like to be in high school but these characters are not anything like my HS.
The "Master" dates the mother of his student?
Gambling with martial arts---hmmm, The Deerhunter with Fight Club.
But, oh please, lost a date because she could kick his arse???
Interesting cleavage shot when mom got her a new dress.
Recognizable bagua, yes. How about a cameo from Luo Dexiu?
Okay, it beats David Carradine by a long shot Besides, what else do we have? At least Russell Wong can act, right? Think about Steven Seagal.:eek: :o
I missed it. Ended up watching 8 Mile instead. They did do a small spot on Extra about Black Sash, and mentioned the show's cool "Karate" :rolleyes: Anyways, no real mention of Russel Wong(but he was in most of the fighting clips they showed), but the reporter got a Bagua lesson from two of the kids in the show and actualy said "Ba Qua" and mentioned something about taking an opponents offensive energy and using it back at them. Oh, and it's like Tai Chi :-) National Wushu Training Center was mentioned too :cool:
YiLiJingLei
04-15-2003, 11:36 PM
I am excited about a tv series promoting the style I
study. The actors were originally studying Bagua with Tim Cartmell in California, then I've heard they were training with Liang Shou Yu's students in Vancouver (thus, the contemporary wushu), and I've also heard rumors that they're studying with Andrea Falk or one of her students recently in Vancouver, but I'm not exactly sure. I personally study with other teachers than those mentioned above, so I admit I'm a bit biased in hoping the actors will learn elsewhere...;)
While I enjoy the show, and I'm hoping that the series lasts, I
feel like I'm rooting for an underdog. For me, it's great to see the
martail art I study on TV, although my standards are high, and some of what they are doing on the show is a bit hollow/shallow, I'm grateful that they don't use the goofy flying-on-wires stunts like in "The One" with Jet Li (man, I really hate that movie), where
the "Good-Jet Li" uses Bagua Zhang, and the "Bad-Jet Li"
uses Xing Yi Quan. I for one am SOOO SICK of those tired flying wire stunts--geez!! Jet Li wastes his talent by relying on them too much. Black Sash is also TONS better than David Carradine pretending to be Chinese, and a Shaolin monk/martial arts master on top of it all in "Kung Fu" *groan*...*urk-gag!*
So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping the home team can survive the 6 episode trial they're signed to!
Even though no one on the show looked like masters performing the methods, likewise, how many of us look like masters when we're practicing? They are supposed to be students on the show, right? Maybe it's a good thing that they aren't all bagua super-freaks.
While I did like some of the rolling elbows and a few nifty throws in the streetfights, I thought there was a bit too much contemporary-wushu-
flash-&-trash/posing for me, but oh, well, it is TV. Oh, and the
scenes where "Tom", Russell Wong's character is practicing, while it was more traditinal Bagua someone is showing him, and he wasn't "in his legs", floating with broken movement, and no shen fa, but hey, I've seen "famous" instructors in person look much worse, but for courtesy's sake, I won't mention names here.
I do like some of the character development going on progressively on the show, and the emphasis on Wu-De (martial morality) is refreshing. there's some potential, and I think becuase many of us study the art, we're being overly critical. But hey, give them credit, at least they are promoting Bagua in a positive light on the show, even though some of the martial arts methods are shallow/hollow by some of our standards, and they are making an honest effort.
Another thing I keep wondering about, is dang, that's a cool kwoon! Split level, locker-rooms, free-weights & nautilus, lots of heavy bags, lots of room; pretty spiffy, very idealistic. I'm guessing his tuition must be REALLY expensive to pay for lease/utilities...no wonder the kid in the first episode complained he couldn't afford tuition! ;) Also, the student turn-over/drop-out rate should be higher, that'd be realistic--only 2 out of 10 students nowadays last more than a year at any real school...and they actually practice! Maybe they should show a handful of martial arts geeks at the school posting on internet message boards instead of training...;)
Sincerely,
Dennis Mace
YiLiJingLei
04-23-2003, 12:25 AM
Hi, folks,
I've heard rumors that the WB is cancelling Black
Sash. When I checked the WB website, I found the Black
Sash page had been deleted, and a rerun of an old
Charmed episode being slated instead this coming Sunday. What a disappointment.
So, it looks like the WB has dropped the show after only the 4th episode?!? I hope they would at least try to air the show in a different time-slot before deciding to cancel it.
While there was a bit too much contemporary-wushu-flash-&-trash/posing for me, I realize it's TV, and glitz sells. Also, while it is traditinal Bagua someone is showing the actors, and thier
execution isn't perfect, I've been looking forward to seeing the characters/actors continue to improve...but if the show's already cancelled, it's a moot point. What a let down.
I do like some of the character development going on progressively on the show, and they are promoting Bagua & martial arts in general in a positive light. The show is a lot better than other popular programming on TV, so I'm asking anyone that is interested to email the programming contact at the WB, faces@talk.thewb.com , and ask them please don't drop Black Sash without giving the show an honest chance.
Sincerely,
Dennis Mace
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChengShiBaguaHui/
Seattle, WA
http://www.chengshibaguazhang.com/
That's a shame. The last episode I watched introduced an interesting character, the Master's son and the show was just starting to get interesting.
Unfortunately, the way the Master's son taught might have come much closer to traditional training and application than meets the eye.
Well, the producers must not have done their homework. They failded to hold the targeted demographic group. I keep forgetting that advertising drives the content of the show and its aim is at those who consume, purchase and run up the old credit card. Its not about good entertainment, its about making money with whatever will work. Kinda of sad???
Well, maybe we should write but I got the feeling that its money that drives those decision. But on the other hand, its all we got and we know its not for the hardcore martial artists. It sure beats that msytic, punching and sending qi through-the-wall, David Carradine..
blacktaoist
04-23-2003, 12:02 PM
YiLiJingLei:
To bad they are cancelling Black
Sash. The show in my opinion had nothing but bad acting and the BaguaZhang I don't want to comment, But I was starting to watch that wack show, just to see what they come up with next. Maybe they have a mantis practitioner come teach eight step, or something.......LOL
I only watched the first episode and the last episode I happen to catch. What I found funny in the 4 episode is why have the master son performing hung-gu traditional training and applications. The Master son was not doing anything near BaGuaZhang.
Anyone can see theChinese guy playing the Master son had a Hung Gua martial art background. or should I say Chinese san shou the way he was working out on the show....LOL
The show could have been a lot better to see the masters son performing and teaching BaguaZhang evade and neutralize methods on the show. Show something of BaGua method, After all he the son of a BaGua master on the show. The hand to hand fight with Wong and the Master son look like a scene from jet li the one movie.
And that fight with the sword vs deer hook swords was comical as hell. I feel the show would have done a lot better if the producers have done their homework as RAf said. I hope the show keeps air, because its funny as hell.
Just my two cents
BT
firepalm
04-23-2003, 11:35 PM
From someone who has worked on the show, I am told that the stunt coordinator (Dean Choe) a former Karate guy was given the principle actors that had in the States worked with Tim Cartmill. Then one of the actresses was trained privately in Vancouver by Wushu instructor / stunt person Bruce Fontaine (many of the stunt performers & background students were from Fontaine's school). Afterwards all actors were trained by internal stylist Sam Masich. Sam was kept on to act as Ba Gua technical consultant & fight choreographer collaborater. However sometimes things didn't mesh well; American TV style filming, actors & stunt performers who didn't have any internal arts training and little time to try to make it all work. Further the show's writer & co producer wanted to stick to traditional Ba Gua while the other producers (from the Agent Cody Banks movie & Martial Law) wanted more flash. Apparently it proved quite problematic on the set.
For the master's son episode, the actor Ron Yuan was actually a Tae Kwon Do person that was taught some Wushu Southern style for the show by Bruce Fontaine, who also consulted on the Southern training methods. In that same episode Katrina Leung, a student of Liang Shouyu, was introduced to the show by Bruce Fontaine & Sam Masich. From all reports this episode also had problems in getting done.
Trying to get a show of this nature done in a way that is both authentic (to the interested communities) & interesting enough to the general audiences is difficult enough in concept never mind execution. Even if does go I don't think it will get much better then it's been thus far.
Just my two cents.
:cool: :cool:
YiLiJingLei
05-12-2003, 10:08 PM
Hi, folks,
Good news for all of us "Black Sash" fans: I just heard & verified that the 5th episode of "Black Sash", everyone's favorite Bagua TV show, will air on the WB at 9pm/8pm Central time on Sunday, May 25th!
For details, please go to the WB's website:
http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Show/0,7353,||1263,00.html
The fate of the show is still uncertain, so if you enjoy the show, and see it's potential, please go to the site to offer your support. Thanks, and best wishes.
Sincerely,
Dennis Mace
Judge Pen
05-13-2003, 06:25 AM
[QUOTE] Even though no one on the show looked like masters performing the methods, likewise, how many of us look like masters when we're practicing? [QUOTE]
This is an internet forum. We all look like masters when we practice and our kung fu is done exactly the way it was intended all the time.;)
Anyway I like Black Sash. If it peaks people's interest in Ba Gua then that's not a bad thing, right?
USA Today printed WB's fall schedule and Black Sash is nowhere to be found. They have some lame new replacement in at the Sunday, 9:00 pm time slot (even though I am not Black Sash's biggest fan, it was better than the alternatives on a Sunday nite).
Black Sash is not listed any other place during the week.
I don't know what tea leaves they read but surely there must be a market for a Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon like series that is halfway sensible and historically anchored. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was insightful enough to include the bagua deerhorns as a weapon among others.
Even Hero (Ying Xiong) had one of the best jian/qiang fights ever put on film.
The market is there its just a matter of fine-tuning.
I hope the show will stay on!! It's the best thing to help MA world since The Karate Kid! In the public eye. IMHO
~Jason
Hmmm. Last nite, Deerhorn knifes. Okay, its a start. However, one advertisement for a new series in the fall makes the point that their new character is from the series Black Sash. Bad news. Sounds like they are jumping ship from the series or maybe they will revise the series.
Not bad but it still falls short. Just can't get past most of the characters and their problems.
Interesting series on Chinese TV---She Diao Yin Xiong Zhuang (The Hero who Shoots the Eagle) 42 vcd series (45 minutes each) now available. Martial arts has a lot of flying etc. etc. but it has the beauty and feel of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and its full of interesting characters. Major drawback--all in mandarin Chinese, no subtitles. Too bad some TV producer doesn't pick this up and put the subtitles in. Also they have a great series like that on Gengis Kahn.
Hope springs eternal--maybe more focus on the main character and his daughter.
monk weed
06-02-2003, 08:03 AM
Sorry to butt in on this but after missing all but one of the first run of episodes I watched one last night. Man....... If it wasn't for the hot babes on that show it would be unwatchable. It's terrible, just awful.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.