Pankration

[Former castleva]

Any experiences or comments on this art?

[LEGEND]

No experience but I've seen it make a big SPLASH during the UFC days. It's basically MMA training. But the guy...JIM AVERETT( ??? ) says that pankration has been around for years and bring up photos of past gladiator statue fighting etc...
Looks to be a mixture of submission techs, greco, freestyle, boxing, and muy thai. I think it's a great marketing tool though. You know with the gladiator/roman/greek time. Hell I could promote VIETCONG martial arts and make it seem like ninjitsu.

[apoweyn]

Arvanitis, or something. Jim Arvanitis.

[Mr.Sleazy]

Castleva:

I am no expert, but I've been training this for about a year now.

I don't think there is any one single system of pankration, it varies from school to school. Some of the schools claim connection to the ancient greek pankrationists (Arvantis I think) while others (eg Matt Hume) are frank that its a modern mixed martial art evolved from mixing muay thai, bjj, boxing, karate (among others).

Basically, pankration is really a competition venue rather than a single monolithic "art" with a set series of techniques:

http://mmac.homestead.com/whatispankration.html

http://www.pitch.com/issues/2002-04-18/feature.html/1/index.html

I can't speak for other schools, but at mine, the emphasis is on sport, training generally has some pretty hard sparring, no forms or katas, and puts an equal emphasis on groundfighting and standup.

[Black Jack]

I remeber reading articles where Arvantis states that his Pankration system is a retrofit style of boxing, grappling systems like greco roman wrestling, and kick boxing disciplines.

The only person I have ever heard state that they have a connection to the ancient greeks was that bald guy who does those bizzare Comrach Bas tapes?

A greek system with a galiec name :rolleyes:

[Former castleva]

Just to release the idea that I had,I have the idea of it as an old,legitimate Greek martial art with solid basis in unarmed combat.
I was aware that it is "UFC friendly",while that has not necessarily been of my greatest liking,I find this an interesting art nonetheless.
Now it seems though,that there may be some "politics" included.

"...are frank that its a modern mixed martial art evolved from mixing muay thai, bjj, boxing, karate (among others)."
Wow.Sounds nuts honestly speaking.

What do you think Mr.Sleazy? (or about anyone)
Keep it coming.

[CrippledAvenger]

It's currently being discussed on the Western Martial Arts group, at Yahoo.

Click Here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/western-arts/)

don't know much about it myself, though.

[Mojo]

Black Jack
Pancration is definitely a greek name.
pronounced pan - crat - eon

[apoweyn]

He's talking about cohmrac bas (sp?). Not pankration.

[Former castleva]

Thank you,thank you.

[Mojo]

thanks Apoweyn

[apoweyn]

No worries Mojo.

Actually, I've been mispronouncing pankration all along. So at least I learned something.

:)

[Mojo]

I think most Americans mispronounce it, usualy as...

pan- cray- shon

It used to drive me crazy, now I expect it.

[Mr.Sleazy]

Am I an addict?

I mispronounce it too (and I am a canadian), and everyone I know who studies or teaches it does too. Oh well.

Pan-cray-shun

As I said before, it is really more of a competitive forum than a single martial art - a set of rules to compete under.

I know there was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about it being in the 2004 Olympics - not true.

Castleva:
"Wow.Sounds nuts honestly speaking."

Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? What are you looking at?

[old jong]

I doubt it is a direct line to antiquity. They chose that name for good effect only.

They tried to bring back "pugilat" in the seventies but it did'nt caught on. (I remember this from Black Belt or some other magazine of the times)

[Mr.Sleazy]

OJ is correct.

[Former castleva]

Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? What are you looking at?""

Hey,hey take it easy.I want no trouble. :)
Just commenting on that modern mix I was.

Thanks once again for the replies.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by apoweyn
Arvanitis, or something. Jim Arvanitis.

yeah, that's him.I've got a few mags that have interviews with him. He was trying to get pankration back into the olympics.

[Guile]

That would be interesting

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Mojo
I think most Americans mispronounce it, usualy as...

pan- cray- shon

It used to drive me crazy, now I expect it.

Yep. That's what I've been saying all along. But I like the proper pronunciation better. So (on the odd occassion I have a chance to use the word at all) from now on, it's pan-cray-teeon.

I think.

Cheers Mojo.


Stuart B.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by SevenStar


yeah, that's him.I've got a few mags that have interviews with him. He was trying to get pankration back into the olympics.

Yeah, I've got articles by him somewhere too. But his stuff did look suspiciously like JKD (jeet tech), muay thai (round kick), and greco roman.

Not that I've got a problem with that. He seems to be relatively straightforward about it.

Not like this yahoo in the latest copy of Black Belt. His informercial reads something to the effect that Barney McBadarse had a black belt in karate and jiujutsu. But when he discovered that he was part Native American, he learned the deadly fighting style of the plains indian.

I don't even have the patience to go into everything that's wrong with that statement.


Stuart B.

[Black Jack]

Sevenstar- Hackney and a host of other MMA guys are pushing for Pankration to included into the olympics. It is called the USA Pankration team and the school is in Palatine IL. I believe they just came back from a tourney in Greece. They are all about competition.

Do a search for their website. If you are a black belt in a martial art you can after passing a 8 hour pankrationmartial/fitness course be granted a black belt in that system.

Ap- Are you talking about Randall Brown?

A lot of those guys and I have met two who have confirmed this have ZERO control over TRS's famous method of rock and shock advertising. It has nothing to do with the end product nor most of the time the guy teaching it.

From what I know about Randall Brown he is a practicioner of native american combative sport grappling and fighting methods.

How that compares to what junk TRS puts down on paper is a different story alltogether. I also know of 9 and have spoken to 3 different individuals, all who have had access to Native American Martial arts instruction in one format or another, some just parts or certain ranges, some family/tribal methods, others more structured to a degree.

I have met two of them, one who teaches Lua and another who teaches a Taino machette fighting system.

All I am saying is don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. :D

[apoweyn]

Black Jack,


Ap- Are you talking about Randall Brown?

Hmm... lemme see...

Yep. Sure am.

Well, in that case, poor Mr. Brown needs to get away from that production company and hire you on as his PR guy. He'd be much better served.

And thanks for saving the baby. :)


Stuart B.

[Black Jack]

Ap-:D

That's the thing with TRS, they often have a very good product but their method of marketing is really bizzare, so much so that it's like their trademark now. It puts me off as well and I think it does more damage than good as it takes you longer to read through the **** add to find some description on what is on the freakin tape.

I remeber I met Hock Hochhiem at a seminar and he was rolling his eyes at their method of advertising and he stated that once a TRS tape is made and signed over for marketing, they have NOTHING to do with how TRS puts it out on paper, same with Vunack.

I can see how it is a little catchy, I mean who would not want to be able to kill a hundred bikers hoped up on speed, by just using a forgotten Navy Seal pressure point kata, that was developed in the heart of the Congo to fend off attacks from dinosuars enhanced by cybernetic nano machines by a lost alien civilization.

[apoweyn]

LOL

Black Jack, I demand that you go out and start your own production company now. That last paragraph was about a thousand times better than anything by TRS.

:)