Guilty until proven innocent

[friday]

This is really a personal matter of mine. b i feel like talking about it here so thats what i'm doing. recently, i'd been trying to contact two of my friends all three of us learnt at the same kwoon. I was trying to contact them to catch up with them and see how they were. For some reason my calls weren't answered, returned, messages were sent or left with no reply. calls were cut off. intially i thought it must've been just bad luck but after this happened a few times i began to think something mite be wrong.

eventually i saw one of my friends online on one of thsoe messenger things. i sent him messages asking him what was goingon etc. expecting some perfeclty rational reason behind it. what followed was one of the most frustrating and stupid conversations ever. I didn't really get straight answers felt i was more interrogated than anything else. In summary this is approx how it went:

Me: whats wrong?

Him: i don't really know how to talk to u about this so i've been consulting other materials to see how to approach u

Me: what?????????

Him: why haven't u been coming to the kwoon??

Me: uni, hurt my shoulder, etcetc.

Him: after all the things i've done for u. u didnt tellme sifu sent u to learn in hk kung fu of this style...etc

Me: he didn't send me i was going on holidays anyway but i asked him whether i could go learn from this guy. and he said yes

Him: sigong said he thought u were sent by sifu

Me: misunderstanding i think (facts: while i was in hk i only spoke with sigong once or twice max - the time i remember the most was when we had yum cha in macau. i never once lied and told him that sifu sent me etc. the bulk of that conversation took place between my sifu in hk and sigong over the phone in my hk sifu's office while i was waiting outside - i was perfectly honest when interviewed by my hk sifu b4 he accepted me as his student. i didnt say i was sent by australia sifu to learn from him but that i did ask his permission etc).

Him: u so embarrassed to see sigong u looked like a kid caught with his hand in the candy jar/biscuit jar??( i can't remember lol).

Me: (i'm thinking what??????? this is sooo stupid) what??? gosh i was just feeling a bit embarrassed cos it'd been two years since i met him i was thinking he probably wouldn't remember me.

Him: said something about my performances or something in singapore being Australian rep of the style. (i think he means i'm telling everyone i'm the rep from australia for the style etc and lording over ppl???? - he isn't very clear i'm sorry)

Me: i can't remember, i'm not the one doing announcements and it was 2 years ago.

(now that i've had time to think over it - in the competition in hk i participated in yes they even referred me as sifu lol i have a certificate for participating and helping and as the style rep in that competititon from Australia. my hk sifu and i had a chat about that b4 the comp - i said i'm not to that level yet etc. the idea was i'm the australian rep of the style under him (hk sifu) when doing routine demonstrations at functions i went to for the style and the competition - my trophies i can take back to australia and add to the trophies at the school - my hk sifu thought it doesn't matter it will make my australia sifu and classamtes happy that i brought it back like representing them in hk. i had asked what if they didnt like it - he said its still ok i'm representing him then his rep in Australia. the stupid thing was it was a really small technical thing - i never for one second thought iw as the australian representative over all my classmates etc :rolleyes: . plus the comp was filmed as part of a movie so calling me sifu probably makes the movie look more impressive.)

Him: i'm sick of hearing u talk about other styles, sifus, etcetcetc

Me: (i'm thinking o...k sounded like he was fishing for something to support his decision of opinions after i already rejected all his other accusations)
cant we just be friends stuff the martial arts things etc

Him: what we gonna talk about - can't u see i don't believe anything u say?

Me: :rolleyes: i can only take responsibility for things i have done, not the other things i haven't.

One other thing he also mentioned was whether i beat up this guy we both know. lol that part i mentioned in another thread b4. the guy who turns out to be a snake. as i made it quite clear there no i didn't beat him up just when we were mucking around once he threw a punch at me and i threw him to the ground. he wa not injured, just in that exchange he was in the worse off position. this took place b4 i found out he was an idiot and snake. my friend's gf i think was there that nite to see, so was my cousin and one of the senior instructors. i'm sure they would all agree i didn't 'beat up' anyone.

anyway how frustrating and mad did this make me feel? i'm guilty till proven innocent. as my friends they dont talk to me b4 making their stupid incorrect judgements. they treat me like trash - refusing to talk to me etc. and the stupid thing is they seem to see what they want to see...and won't believe anything is ay. so thats how two what i thought were solid friendships have ended. i have never b4 been so disappointed with ppl b4. they have been a major let down. ppl who i thought knew what kind of person i was - totally do not know me.

i wanted to have this rant becos its so **** unfair. its so frustrating to have friends accuse u of things u didnt do. having to cop the cold shoulder fromppl u once thought of as good friends/brothers. but watever happens. i won't bow down to false accusations. and i certainly think the way they handled it ws so childish and immature of ppl thier ages. anyway rants over. good riddance to firends who don't trust u and treat u guilty until proven innocent - when u don't even talk to them theres not much chance of that happening.

:mad:

[jon]

friday

Everytime ive had contact with you ive been impressed with your charactor, skill and level of knowledge.

I cant try to second guess what is going on in your class mates mind but i will say its his loss if he chooses to sever contact.

Hope your well and your sholder is healing.
All the best
Jon

[dezhen2001]

hey friday :)

it sure seems like one heck of a misunderstanding? And the guy is probably just trying to defend his sifus name or something... but it still sux mate :(

all i can say is basically if a "friend" treats you like that then who needs enemies! Especially if he was your brother!

From your posts u seem to be a decent guy and have good knoweledge so dont woryr about it. i man u posted that saga with the gal to ask for advice man! :D

just keep doing what you are doing and maybe you can sort things with your sifus :)

take care,
dawood

[friday]

thanks guys (jon & dezhen)

i'm getting over the issue this is just one of the ways i'm venting it out. the thing is the two of them have been decent friends, in particular one of them was a close friend i thought we could always count on each other and he has been good b4. anyway its over and i'm moving on.

as for sorting things out with sifus there isn't really much to sort out. its much better now i don't have to adjust what i do according to wat my classmates say or feel. from now on if it feels rite for me to do what i do then its going to be enough. i've had enuff of living my life according to what others think is better or more appropriate. u can try to obey most of the rules imposed by other ppl and u can still get on the wrong side of the same ppl.

i must thank tho two of my good friends with or without kung fu, we still remain friends and overcome past differences. this incident has made me treasure those two friendships even more.

from now on the only two ppl's opinion in my style i'm going to worry about are my two sifus.

[Khun Kao Charuad]

I had something similar happen to me once...

I was really good friends with a guy in my Karate class, named "Don". We would hang out all the time. We had a group of guys who would all get together to practice Karate and we would also get together for other activities.

One day one of the guys that I introduced to our group was talking with "Don" and made a smartass comment that really offended him. My friend was only joking, and did not realize that he had offended him. It is very important to understand that I was not there when this happened.

I spoke with my friend later in the day, and he had told me about hanging out with "Don" and about the conversation, including his joke. Because my friend had not realized that he had offended "Don", he didn't make it out to me as if anything was wrong.

I later spoke with "Don", who mentioned hanging out with my friend. I told him that I had already spoken with him and knew that they had hung out. "Don" asked whether or not I knew what my friend had said to him? I was like, "Sure, he told me about it."

At that point, that apparantly was enough to end the friendship. My friend "Don" apparantly thought that I was just as big of a jerk because I didn't see anything wrong with what had been said.

What can I say? I didn't realize that my friend had hit a nerve with him. I also knew my friend well enough to know that he had not meant to offend "Don". My friend, upon hearing that he had upset "Don", IMMEDIATELY offered to go and apologize, as he liked "Don" and had not meant to hurt his feelings. But "Don" would have nothing to do with him anymore.

And as it turns out, me either for that matter. He completely cut off communication with me, even though I repeatedly attempted to reconcile the situation. I requested the opportunity for us to sit down and discuss the matter on numerous occasions. After getting rejected, it then turned ugly. Lots of insults, talking behind each others backs, etc.

"Don" had once said a wise thing to me. "You can't bring back the dinosaurs." I eventually resigned myself to accepting that and moved on.

Khun Kao

[Cody]

Not having witnessed any of the examples given, I remain neutral. Indeed, even if a person had witnessed, or been told by another trusted friend, his take might not be as predictable as the person trying to explain or justify words might expect. Betrayal is a horrible thing when it happens. It can errode your heart and make it bitter. I'm beginning to think that a form of cooperative self sufficiency is the best way to go, but that's easier said than done. I think you might have it in you to do that though. So, that would be my basic advice to you. A final bit of advice is at the end of this post.

how human interactions get ****eyed in this world.

1. Appearances can be deceiving. What looks like an attack with body or a word can simply be self defense of body and character, especially if there are no injuries of merit. Perception does not occur in a straight line.
In terms of the "crowd," not knowing the background, or one person involved, personal insecurities, expectations, or influences from other people, should be taken into consideration. As well as what really happened, which can easily fall by the wayside.
As far as the "victim," there are three basic choices for an untruthful report: flat out lying in order to accomplish a goal; mistaking the motivation of the opponent, especially when they don't know each other; cowardice.

2. Everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes a temporary undercurrent in the heart of the speaker might be picked up loud and clear by the receiver, and witnessed or talked about. This can affect a future judgment for the worse. Or it can be a joke gone sour. These things happen, even in good friendships.

3. There might be no undercurrent, or the situation might have been ambiguous. It is then the responsibility of the listener to speak up on the spot. If a serious grudge is harbored without attempt at sincere resolution, then there's something wrong. How can one tell?

Him: why haven't u been coming to the kwoon??

Me: uni, hurt my shoulder, etcetc.

Him: after all the things i've done for u. u didnt tellme sifu sent u to learn in hk kung fu of this style...etc

Me: he didn't send me i was going on holidays anyway but i asked him whether i could go learn from this guy. and he said yes

Him: sigong said he thought u were sent by sifu

Look at that exchange! I've got flags up all over the place. Jealousy, inuendo, and possible falsehood. "sigong...thought.."? That's not good enough. Also, your friend calling in favors or help that should have no price tag on them other than respect, honesty and possibly return of same. Even if sifu had sent you, what is his problem? One might throw in misunderstanding just for the heck of it.

Him: i'm sick of hearing u talk about other styles, sifus, etcetcetc

I've heard words like that, followed by statements to the effect of : Why don't I know those people or things? Who are you to have made these contacts?
According to my experience, these are words of jealousy, and/or of possible fishing for information which you are not obligated to hand out.

I don't know how long you were separated from your "friends" before you made contact via online messenger. It surprises me that they didn't know you were injured because these things often come up in kwoon or between friends. Maybe I'm thinking that the friendships were deeper than they were. my mistake.
But, something bothers me here. If your Australia sifu is aware of these problems (especially circumstances of your study with the other sifu), he could put a stop to them fast. for the sake of good fellowship and peace in the kwoon. If he doesn't choose to, I'd would want to know why not if I were you. He's your proof. Whatever, for sure, I wouldn't trust those other guys again cause you would never know when they'd turn again.

Cody

[andoi]

its funny how ppl like to air their laundry on the net:confused:

[SaMantis]

The main problems I see in your situation friday are:

1. The facts of the matter were misconstrued (probably by someone who overheard/heard of the conversation but didn't get all the info).

2. The person/people who misconstrued the facts did what most humans do, and spread a rumor.

3. Your friends heard the rumor after it had been spun into a horrible story, and believed the worst.

4. Your friends didn't stick by you.

What can you do about these problems?

1-3: Nothing, it happens quite frequently especially anyplace where egos are involved. You got your sifu & sigong's approval, and that's that. If you decide to explain the situation (which you did), you only have to do it out of politeness. But you don't have to defend yourself.

4. If you can confront these friends in person it will be easier to sort things out. If they decide not to remain friends with you, let them go, you don't need wishy-washy pals. This sucks and it hurts, but you learned their true nature. Better to have one loyal friend, or even no friends, than 100 "acquaintances."

[Former castleva]

-or how Chinese deal with crime.

[BAI HE]

He's obviously not your friend. He would have come to you with this, not harbored it and used it at as a reason to end your
friendship.

[Bow Dul Fu]

Noddy and Big Ears are the best of friends.
Noddy and Big Ears had known each since they were born.
They even Lived in the same oak tree house and shared the same bed.
Noddy and Big Ears always did everything together.
One morning Noddy woke up and found Big Ears missing.
He wasn't in bed.
Noddy looked around the house but couldn't find Big Ears.
Noddy started to get worried.
So After breakfast Noddy decided to go looking for Big Ears.
He Got into he's little red car and started driving along.
As he was driving along he saw Friday.
He asked Friday "Have you seen Big Ears"
Friday replied "No I haven't seen Big Ears Noddy, Sorry"
So Noddy decided to keep on driving.
As he was driving along he saw Jon.
He asked Jon "Have you seen Big Ears"
Jon replied "No I haven't seen Big Ears Noddy, Sorry"
So Noddy decided to keep on driving.
As he was driving along he saw Khun Kao Charuad.
He asked Khun Kao Charuad "Have you seen Big Ears"
Khun Kao Charuad replied "No I haven't seen Big Ears Noddy, Sorry"
So Noddy decided to keep on driving.
As he was driving along he saw Cody .
He asked Cody "Have you seen Big Ears"
Cody replied "No I haven't seen Big Ears Noddy, Sorry"
So Noddy decided to keep on driving.
As he was driving along he saw SaMantis .
He asked SaMantis "Have you seen Big Ears"
SaMantis replied "No I haven't seen Big Ears Noddy, Sorry"
So Noddy decided to keep on driving.
As he was driving along he saw BAI HE.
He asked BAI HE "Have you seen Big Ears"
BAI HE replied "No I haven't seen Big Ears Noddy, Sorry"
So Noddy decided to keep on driving.
As he was driving along he saw Andoi.
He asked Andoi "Have you seen Big Ears"
Andoi replied "Yes!"
Noddy was excited. He asked Andoi "Where is Big Ears then?"
Andoi replied "He's down at the river washing he's box!"

Moral Of The Story
"Your all dik flops that sound as sad and funni as this story. You spend all your time on kfo wining and lying about your problems. You just come on kfo so other sad cases can comfort you for what you've done wrong in the REAL world. " :D

[joedoe]

Originally posted by andoi
its funny how ppl like to air their laundry on the net:confused:

You didn't happen to be one of these 'friends' were you? :D

[friday]

........

sorry ppl i haven't been on for a wk now. :). ...was thinking of typing up some responses but...after i thought about it its not really worth it everything that needs to be said has been said, besides i'm really too happy at the moment with how my life is going to bother. Take care ppl mite pm some of u in the future.


:D
one thing i've learnt you are a much happier person if u learn to forgive and forget.

i forgive u chow dul fu :p