Define a hero

[joedoe]

What exactly is a hero? The dictionary says:

1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.

2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.

3. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine. See Synonyms at celebrity.

4. The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation.

What do you think makes a hero?

[Serpent]

Well, it's definitely not the people that died in 9/11. They were victims of an atrocity.

Except for the police and fire units that went in to save people and died. Those dudes are heroes whether they died or not. Of course, that being their job you could argue that they're not heroes, as they get paid, but it is a heroic job.

The seven in Challenger that died recently were not heroes. They were also victims of a terrible tragedy.

I only bring these up as they are examples of the word hero that's been around lately and is used incorrectly.

A hero is anyone that stands in the face of adversity, that overcomes fear to achieve greatness, that sacrifices themselves for others or a greater good.

IMO.

:)

[Serpent]

Why do you ask, Joe?

[Laughing Cow]

Adding to what Serpent said:

People that cannot be considered heroes:
1.) People that know that they will not be injured by taking a certain action.
Example:
An everyday person in street clothes rushing into a fire to save someone is a hero.

A firefighter in a full asbestos suit with oxygen supply is not eligible.


2.) A Person that DOES NOT know that the action he is doing is putting himself into bodily harms way.

As for War heroes, better not open that can of wriggly stuff.
;)

Just some thoughts.

[Xebsball]

*sings* "We dont need another heeeero!!"

[Serpent]

"We don't need to know the waaaaay home"

What the hell does that mean anyway?!

[Black Jack]

I agree with Serpents definition.

Yes their are war heros.

The Medal of Honor and other distinguished awards are a statement to that fact as well as the words and deep feelings of those soliders who come back to talk about their fallen friends.

Cheers,

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Serpent
Why do you ask, Joe?

I dunno - I guess the term gets bandied about so much lately. Seems that anyone who does anything is a hero now.

I know this will probably stir up some controversy, but I read about the raid to rescue some of the POWs that the US military staged. They got out a bunch of bodies and one surviving POW (so they say, they may have gotten more out). But they have been called heroes by one of the generals.

Now granted, they are putting themselves in harm's way and they are in a really crappy situation, and being made a POW would be absolutely no fun at all - but are they really heroes?

[Serpent]

No.

Anyone that joins the military is essentially willing to die for their country. That is heroic to a degree, but no one soldier is more of a hero than another for doing the job they get paid for.

A soldier could be less than a hero for signing up and then punking out when the sh!t hit the fan, however.

Hmmm. Interesting.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Yes their are war heros.

Never disputed that fact.
But many feel that some that carry the honour of being labeled so aren't deserving it.

Time to listen to one of my favortie songs again:

The Grave by Don Maclean.

Seeya.

[joedoe]

Good definition Serpent, and I also agree with Black Jack - there can be war heroes. Emergency service people can be heroes too. I can accept that just because it is your job it doesn't mean there is not room for heroism.

It just seems lately that the media etc. use the term so often that it is losing its meaning.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by joedoe
It just seems lately that the media etc. use the term so often that it is losing its meaning.

Like so many others.

[joedoe]

Is everyone looking forward to the new Jet Li movie as much as I am?

[Serpent]

When's the Sydney release? Is it going to be in theatres?

[joedoe]

I have found websites that say it is slated for an October/November release but I don't know if that is the Australian launch date or not. I got hold of the VCD (it looks legit, but who knows) and have watched the first fight scene. Looks awesome.

[Serpent]

I'd love to see it. I can't believe all the hassles about it getting released though. What's the big deal?

[joedoe]

I haven't heard anything about release hassles. I heard Miramax has the rights to it, so maybe there is some problem there. Either way, I have a copy of it so I will have a look at it when I can and see if it is the same as what gets released on the big screen :)

[PHILBERT]

I define a hero as a person who risks his or her life to save other peoples lives or a person who in fact does save other peoples lives. Fire fighters, police officers, doctors, paramedics, people who just happen to be in the area at the time, etc.

[joedoe]

Sure, but where do you draw the line between duty and beyond the call of duty?

[Internal Boxer]

FATHER TED

[sticky fingers]

in fact, the greatest of them all...

http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/3657/frame2.html

[Stranger]

First off, just because a fireman wears an asbestos suit doesn't make him invulnerable. If risk defines heroism (I'm not saying it does) than a fireman's suit does not eliminate him from consideration. Many fireman die every year fighting fires. The suits help, but that is about it.

Secondly, the Challenger crew were not heroes because their ship exploded, they were heroes for volunteering to take the risk of space flight to advance space exploration for their repsective nations.

Third, I have to say I see the rescuers of Jessica Lynch as heroes. Yes, they are soldiers, but nobody made them volunteer for Spec Ops (a heroic career choice IMHO). They don't get paid much at all in consideration of the hours they put in and the risks involved with their job. I've never heard of anybody getting involved in Spec Ops for the salary.

The bottom line is that many people went into harms way to free somebody's 19yr. old daughter. Do you think Jessca consdiders them heroes? Do you think that Jesica's parents do? The soldiers weren't even asked to do it, they requested the opportunity to perfom the mission.

This heroism is not unique to Americans or American Spec Ops. Our media is excited about what happened and their enthusiasm shapes the language of their reports. Unless you have robots report the news, this will alway be the case.

I'm sure the Iraqis that were shot up during the rescue misson wouldn't call the Spec Ops guys heroes.

No need to agonize over the definition ofthe term 'hero' as it is relative, and there is surely no need to get the anti-Americans all excited about how many 'false' American heroes they can list in his thread. Just take the event and its reporting for what it was, a great day for some and the last day for others.

[GreyMystik]

alright i'm sure i'll get some frowns and flames for this, but the current discussion begs the question (at least from my perspective)... would you consider the perpetrators of the 9-11 tragedy heroes?
don't get your panties all in a wad, just apply the definitions you have already given...

[Stranger]

No doubt they were 'heroes' in the eyes of many with a like-minded view of the US.

[Former castleva]

An invidual willing to work for the benefit of another even in a situation where his/her position is or would become inferior/unstable.

Sorta like mega man. ;)

[red5angel]

Superman is a real heroe. The guy not only has super powers, like being able to fly, being prettty much invulnerable, x-ray and laser vision!! But he is just a good guy all around.


hehe, greymystik, this came up a while back. I got alot of heat for pointing it out but to someone somewhere those guys are heroes.

[old jong]

Must be some guy sitting in a fighter bomber who press a button to send a cluster bomb on civilians.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by joedoe
Sure, but where do you draw the line between duty and beyond the call of duty?

I don't view such a line. If you perform a job that will save a persons life right then and there, `cause they are in a sort of danger, heart attack, fire, shot, needing a heart bypass, whatever, and you perform the task needed, you are a hero. If a fireman runs into a building to save someone's life, rips a car open using the Jaws of Life, and saves a life, he/she is a hero. If a police officer catches a rapist, murder, child molester, whatever, he/she is a hero. If a doctor performs surgery on a man/woman who needs a new lung, liver, heart, etc and the person lives, the doctor is a hero.

[red5angel]

old jong, that is a cheap shot at guys doing a job no one else has the guts to do. Someone has to do it, don't fool yourself into thinking they don't so don't take it out on the soldiers who have to.

[joedoe]

I can see that hero status is relative to the point of view. One person's hero may be another person's villain.

I can also accept that the guys that went in to get the POWs could be viewed as heroes. Again, depends on the POV.

But how do you define where it is just a job well done, and a heroic act? Are they necessarily mutually exclusive?

All good thoughts guys. Keep em coming.

[old jong]

Yeah! It takes lots of guts to do that. Your heros are killing children with their hightly precice weapons. Are they aiming well or what?...

[red5angel]

I didn't say they were heroes first off, they are soldiers, doing what they have to do.
And don't give me that peacenik attitude about a soldier being a bad guy, if you have that attitude you aren't worth talking to on many levels. First of all you maybe don't realise that soldiers are a necessity in this world? Second, you will also realise that soldiers are doing a job, and most of them won't do what they think is wrong. People are going to get hurt, its a fukking war for keerist sake. Yeah war is bad old jong I get it, now shut the fukk up and step into the real worl dfor a second where there are people out there killing people for a lot less reason then for why americans are fighting in the deserts of Iraq. Such a fukking ignorant attitude it really ****es me off that someone could even get out and say something like that in public. But you know what old jhong, it shows you have some real guts man, because you aren't afraid to where your ignorance and your naivety on your sleeve, thats for sure. You can throw it right out there for everyone to see.
Well you go on living in your fantasy world petty boy an dthe rest of us will keep shaoing the world around you and your freinds.

I have to get something off my chest. I hope to god that the Canadians on this board aren't a good representaiton of their fellow countrymen. I have a hard time believeing that every Canadian out there is as naive and as unrealistic as I find several canadian members on this forum are. I don't give a fukk if it is not politically correct. I have noticed a disturbing trend in the idiocy coming straight from the great white north to this board and it makes me sick. I guess thats what the world gets from a country who is happy to sit on its fat white ass and enjoy the lifestyle it's hard working neighbor, America is providing it.
You know what old jong, your dismissed brother, no really, you can go on and on about war kills and war is bad but until you wake up, grow up and look around at the rest of the world and see it for what it really is, so long and thanks for playing.

[old jong]

Your war is certainly having some effect on you R5A!...
Yeah,the soldiers have a job to do.They follow orders...Just like the nazis did. Don't worry ,many Canadians are sorry we are not participating in your massacre.
I really wish you win this thing as fast as possible. No more of this. (http://www.marchforjustice.com/237dc440.jpg)

[red5angel]

Old jong, I wrote quite a bit, but your not worth it. You haven't got the guts to do what those kids are doing out there, an dyou don't have what it take sto understand what it is that is going on. Frankly your comparison of American soldiers enrages me beyond any of your obvious understanding. If I thought you would take me up on it I would pay for your plane ticket down here. I don't want to talk to you, but you can bet two things, my fingers would be crossed some terrrorist piece of **** gets a hold of your plane and drives it right into the ground. Either that or you make here safe and sound so I can make you eat those words......

[Xebsball]

soldier boys make me laugh

[red5angel]

Xebsball, pay attention, very closely. this is not about being a soldier but about understanding what a soldier does and how a soldier feels. They are human beings just like you or I and it is pure ignorance to accuse them of doing anything more wrong then anyone else. think what you like, soldiers are not bad people. Ask anyone whose country has ever been in peril before if they though their soldiers were useless.

If you don't like war, thats one thing, but when you go on accusing soldiers of being esentially evil, it shows you are more naive and ignorant then you may believe.

[joedoe]

red5 is correct. Soldiers are just doing their job. If you want to have a go at someone, have a go at the politicians and the generals. But leave the soldiers alone.

[red5angel]

thanks joedoe, it's nice to see someone understands a little of it anyway....

[Stranger]

They follow orders...Just like the nazis did

OJ,

That is a little unfair. At the Nuremberg Trials, SS-Totenkopf were not allowed to use the defense of "I was just following orders". These men ran the concentration camps- a war crime. The Luftwaffe was not put on trial at Nuremberg. Why? because as repugnant as some might find it, being a combat pilot is not a war crime. Many Canadians helped take the air war to Germany during WW II, they were not tried for war crimes. Canada even had an open policy of accepting any pilot that was willing to put on a Canadian Air Force uniform regardless of their country of origin or position within their native land's military.

You are too intelligent to need to resort to such an oversimplified comparisons.

[Laughing Cow]

These men ran the concentration camps- a war crime.

Do you mean concentration or Death-camps.
Big difference, some were both though.

Concentration camps are a british invention and nearly every country in WW II had them.

Cheers.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by red5angel
thanks joedoe, it's nice to see someone understands a little of it anyway....

No thanks required. It is a job that I would not want to do even if I could do it. I honour and respect the people who put their lives on the line in military service. I may not necessarily agree with the war, but the armed forces out there doing their job have my full support.

[red5angel]

joedoe, I did it, and some do it, so that others don't have to.

[Xebsball]

you only press the trigger if you want, you only follow orders if you want, you only kill if you want.
i guess when a mafia hitman whacks somebody he is only doing his job :cool:

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
No thanks required. It is a job that I would not want to do even if I could do it. I honour and respect the people who put their lives on the line in military service.


Having gone through my countries compuslory military service I got to say it teaches you a lot of good things. Never saw combat though but I have friends that became part of the U.N. forces later on.

I also got plenty of friends that were involved in actual war and other hostile areas, mostly down in South Africa.



I may not necessarily agree with the war, but the armed forces out there doing their job have my full support.

Fully agree with that statement.

Cheers.

[joedoe]

LC, where do you live? For some reason I thought you were in the UK?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
LC, where do you live? For some reason I thought you were in the UK?

No, I am originally central european.
Speak English, German, some Japanese, some Italian, some Spanish, some afrikaans, some Zulu, Jiddish(mostly forgotten) and a little bit of chinese.

But currently away from the continent.
I need to go where my work takes me.

[joedoe]

Wow. Talk about multilingual.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
Wow. Talk about multilingual.

Just what you pick up in order to survive and do your job in a foreign country.

6 months to a year will allow you to learn quiet a bit of another language.
;)

Now planning to settle in current location due to my son, but will still need to travel quiet a bit for courses, conferences, etc.

[Stranger]

Do you mean concentration or Death-camps.

I meant the death camps. You were right making the distinction, and also correct in that some camps were both (starting as concentration camps and becomingdeath camps once the 'final solution' as accelerated).

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow


Just what you pick up in order to survive and do your job in a foreign country.

6 months to a year will allow you to learn quiet a bit of another language.
;)

Now planning to settle in current location due to my son, but will still need to travel quiet a bit for courses, conferences, etc.

Except Hungarian - I have been told that it is next to impossible to learn ;)

What do you do for a crust?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe

Except Hungarian - I have been told that it is next to impossible to learn ;)


Never tried, but part of my Family comes from there, as well as Germany, France, Austria.
:D


What do you do for a crust?

Field: IT.

Job description is: consultant, pre-sales, support, but I also do development when required.

Actual work: Help clients install automation packages that link all their applications together and web-enable them. (EAI, STP)
Packages we use come from all over the world, hence a lot of travel for training.

Primary customers: Banks, Trust banks, Investment & Insurance companies most of them international.

Not very interesting, but it pays the bills.

Seeya.

[joedoe]

Sounds interesting. I work in IT as well - software developer in network security .

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
Sounds interesting. I work in IT as well - software developer in network security .

I never liked development, did mostly installation, admin, maintenance and similar stuff.
(Mainframe OS, Unix, Security, Databases, etc.)

Current Job allows me to play with plenty of different softwares and operating systems.

Which I need after 18yrs in the industry.

;) ;)

Anyhuh, back on topic.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
Wow. Talk about multilingual.

Uh, forgot my Family is pretty multi-lingual.
Most speak german, english, some french plus smatterings of other languages due to travels, etc.

My sister speaks French, English, German, & Czech (she goes there a lot on business).

Wife: Japanese, English, some German, Korean, some French, some spanisch, some Italian.

Seeya.

[joedoe]

Holy sh1t. :D

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by joedoe
Holy sh1t. :D

Not really.

German & English are compulsory in school.
Additional languages are optional and you can choose which one you want.

Travel within europe is cheap and we tend to do it a LOT, so we pick up quiet a bit from there too.

Also europe is very multi-lingual so we get used to hearing different languages from an early age.

Seeya.

[joedoe]

I guess in Australia the exposure to other languages is limited to whatever is spoken in your general area. Lots of immigrants but unless you mix with them a lot you don't learn that much of their language and what you usually end up learning is the swear words and insults :D

[Serpent]

I grew up in Europe and now live in Oz. I've noticed that Oz is an incredibly multi-cultural country in terms of different cultures per capita, but those cultures tend to stick together. You don't get much mixing of cultures.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Serpent
I grew up in Europe and now live in Oz. I've noticed that Oz is an incredibly multi-cultural country in terms of different cultures per capita, but those cultures tend to stick together. You don't get much mixing of cultures.

True to a certain extent. I have found that also depends on where you are. I have found it is definitely true in Sydney, but in Melbourne the cultures seem to mix a lot more. Dunno why that is.

[Serpent]

Melbournians are nicer people?

:)

[joedoe]

I don't think so :D

[Serpent]

:D

[old jong]

Originally posted by red5angel
Old jong, I wrote quite a bit, but your not worth it. You haven't got the guts to do what those kids are doing out there, an dyou don't have what it take sto understand what it is that is going on. Frankly your comparison of American soldiers enrages me beyond any of your obvious understanding. If I thought you would take me up on it I would pay for your plane ticket down here. I don't want to talk to you, but you can bet two things, my fingers would be crossed some terrrorist piece of **** gets a hold of your plane and drives it right into the ground. Either that or you make here safe and sound so I can make you eat those words......

" make no mistake"...I can understand an obsessive /compulsive mind and why you are so enraged very well. Just like when you were Carl Deschiara's groupie,you are now a crusader of the holy war against the dark side.I don't expect you to understand or even tolerate other's points of view on this subject.
Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

[Black Jack]

Red- Just to help out, court jester a.s.s.holes like Xesball are just looking for a reaction, don't feed into the garbage and it will stop to stink, he is a asthmatic cyberspace troll who lives in a country that without U.S. dollars would be knee deep in its own tropical s.h.i.t, like all the rest of the anti-american smudge on this board it will only effect you if you let it.

He is infinitesimal to your world. :D

[joedoe]

ttt

[Xebsball]

hey i had asthma all the time when i was a kid, but now im all good :D

you beatch, you only invest in us and other countries cos its profitable and you need it lil focker. Where else would you make money from if not from other countries? silly focker, globalization is for all, the USA are just as dependant from others economies as vice-versa, capiche?

now gimme 30 pushups for disrespeckin and breaking the protocol, get moving soldier boy!!!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Xebsball
hey i had asthma all the time when i was a kid, but now im all good :D

you beatch, you only invest in us and other countries cos its profitable and you need it lil focker. Where else would you make money from if not from other countries? silly focker, globalization is for all, the USA are just as dependant from others economies as vice-versa, capiche?

now gimme 30 pushups for disrespeckin and breaking the protocol, get moving soldier boy!!!

LOL! :D

BlackJack, every so often you start to redeem yourself, then you go and prove once again that you're a xenophobic, spoon-fed American pr!ck. It's people like you (with that attitude) that makes America so despised by the rest of the world.