Lets not f**k about

[Scythe]

I got into a fight the other day, I did not look for it it came to me. A landlord I was doing some work for blamed me because a tenant did not pay his rent. He phoned me in a rage and said he was coming round to get his money. I was in babysitting my 4 kids. So shut the door and went outside and waited for him at the end of my driveway. He turned up and stormed out of his car and came nose to nose with me and said something along the lines of 'wheres my ****ing money' with that I told him to sling his hook in not so many words. He then tried to headbutt me to which he did'nt get very far he then swung a couple and caught me not very hard though, so I lined him up and cracked him right in the head and followed it up with another. He then ran away like a little girl. I follwed after him calling him a little **** etc. We then got stuck in again this time he caught me with a couple of shots one of them was a cracker right on the nose. My nose began pouring with blood I then whacked him again a few of times and the ******* ran again like a whippet, he turned up wanting to fight and every time he got hit with a few good shots he was off, I tried to catch up with him and get him to stand like a man and fight but he was gone I couldn't catch him. The twat had left his car running outside my house, so I grabbed his keys so he couldn't go anywhere. I then grabbed a jack handle out of the boot of my car and went to find him with the full intention of killing him. The neighbours were all out now and they had called the police so I thought better of it and went back and dumped the jack handle and cleaned myself up.

I was ****ed off that ******* had turned up at my house and although I'd hit him with a good few shots and he was the one running away he had still got in and caught me with a good one on the nose and made it bleed.

After this he got carted off by the old bill. On reflection I have had time to see what I did wrong. I threw all my training out of the window and just decided to slug it out with him, you do this with people your gonna get caught! What I needed to do was find his corner get down there and grab round the waist take him to the floor once he was down there give him a good kicking.

Martial arts training? I've got 18 years of it and a 4th degree, does it help?to some degree...but i could teach the most effective stuff in 1 session! Get the corner, damp down the arms so they can't hit you hard, tackle em to the floor......then kick them black and blue!

Theres tactics that are useful and lots of bull**** which is not. Why did all MMA guys start grappling? because thats the best way to win a fight without getting hit. I learned a valuable lesson by taking a shot: Don't slug it out and one on one always go for the floor!

[pseudoswitch]

what style/s have you studied? Tossing years of training out of the window and slugging it out is very common. I used to do it all the time. I studied a primarily striking art in my younger years but would always resort to grappling when fighting. Strange that....

Regards,

pseudo

[Scythe]

I have studied mainly contact reflex training white crane gung fu similar to wing chun but different, obviously did the usual striking arts stuff my younger days too, kick boxing etc.

This fight didn't end in grappling, but in retrospect I should have made it do so. And in future instead of slugging itn out I shall be taking them down and stamping them all the way.

[1renox]

Sorry about your fight. It is quite common for technique and training to fail under pressure.
However, no matter how angry a person becomes, IMHO the technique should begin when the opponent is first visible. In our style we are taught how to react, where to stand, how to determine ranges and a whole set of tactics that start to kick in immediately even before the encounter takes place.

I'm not trying to trivialize your experience or offend you in anyway, but quite honestly, if you have not tested your skills in a real fight in 18 years of training, then something was amiss in your training. Not that we MA should go around looking for fights, but it's good to spar with different styles, do some friendly slap boxing with a street fighter (your buddy at work or find some guy at the gym who likes playing tough guy and make it a friendly, but competitive match). Some guys are natural fighters and can throw some surprising techniques.

It is useful to be able to control your adrenaline under pressure and it might be good to train under pressure as well. As an example of how pressure can be effective( and I can only speak from personal experience); Last time I had an adrenaline rush, a person cam up to me and stuck a gun in my chest and said, " I'm going to kill you." That was serious. I've been in 2 fights since then and all I felt since then was a strange sense of calm and almost a sense of elation that I could get another chance to use my skills.

Once again, please excuse any impertenance here as I can only offer a humble opinion, but your experience is common. Perhaps it isn't the techniques or style that seemed amiss here. Perhaps more realistic training might be in order.

In any case, sounds like you got the better of your opponent and that's what counts.

[Liokault]

1renox



In any case, better of your opponent and that's what counts.

Hardley the point guy.

[EvolvingPower]

Scythe, you have a good point about grappling. Law Enforcement uses it mainly as not to hurt the suspects too much.

Yet on mass attack situations, grappling is not that effective. You may defeat one, while the rest pummel and kick you into nothingness. Or they stab or shoot you, since you loose most perception of them.

Striking, neutralize the ones struck if posible and getting away from the situations are the most sane tactics for self preservation and street survival.

Also, legally, your right to self defense ended when the *******, as you call him, "then ran away like a little girl". LOL. If you pusue him and do some real damage, you are liable and there are grounds for assault charges.

So analyze the mental training you've had and the results of your physical training. If you don't train outside your "comfort zone" and in high adrenaline, high emotional situations, the result mostly is not using the training you've had in your comfort zone. This is not an indication of your situation, this is a statistical fact from most case studies I've encountered.

That being said, I hope you whipped that ******** good! Hope you and your family are in the best of health.

[Scythe]

In reply to 1renox:

Theres no need to be sorry about the fight, i came out on top and learned a valuable lesson, so I'm not too fussed, just a little pi**ed about getting caught in the first place, but still you can't go to war without casualties.

You seem to have assumed I have never had a real fight in 18 years of training. I have had my fair share, and so far have always been victorious and usually never hit with anything that has bothered me too much. This time came out on top but had a busted nose to go with it, this pi**ed me off as I am so used to not getting hit, what I am trying to get at is that it don't matter who you are, you get in a fight there is the obvious potential to get hit. In my reflections afterwards I looked at the way things went and came to the conclusion that in a one on one situation the best thing to do is to strike from the corner and to go for the take down asap then to do some serious kicking and stamping!!!
My point being, not really traditional kung fu!

In response to Liokault:

I'd say that was exactly the point.


In response to evolving power:

You have some very good points about training outside the confort zone, its easy to slip into that mode and you are right you need to put the pressure on yourself a little more in training to keep the feeling alive of what the real thing is like.

I totally agree that grappling is only any good one on one try it with multiples and you are ****ed.

One on one in a street fight I would not be grappling for arm locks etc it would be more a case of take them down and then give them a good kicking, I wouldn't want to be too civil and just restrain some ******* who was trying it on with me (sorry thats just the way i am):D

[EvolvingPower]

"No your honor... after he fell to the floor I just triped, several times because he held my foot. That's why the brand of my sneakers is is marked all over his head, hips and kness... repeatedly..."

LOL

[Mr Chips]

what size are you Scythe? As a little guy i'd love to be able to grapple someone straight out but i know that it's largely impractical for me, i just don't have the mass to effect a takedown, hence i train a striking art where i can dance around and use the advantages i have. Would you try and use the takedown against a bigger opponent or do you think it would be better to revert to stand up fighting in that situation?

[EvolvingPower]

Farmer Burns was the World Champion in Wrestling ofthe World, before it was "entertainment", in the early 1900's about the 20's. No one could beat this grappler. He weighted in at 160 something pounds.

Judo, before turning into wrestling with gi's, was a very functional system of grappling using very sound technique instead of strength. Most japanese ain't Sumo.

The Graicie's jujitsu was created and used by thin brazilians.

Also, immediately after a takedown, it doesn't mean you'll stay on the ground with the opponent... get up and do some damage and then run away from the danger (of getting hurt or caught! LOL).

It depends what works for you... just try it!

In my case, wrestling consumes lots of energy so I'm looking for principles and techniques closer to more energy conserving grappling techniques. Mostly if going to the ground, if fight (anything goes!!!), not grapple.

[Scythe]

Mr chips,

I'm about 12 stone 10lbs and about 5'10.
But to be effective in grappling or to grab and takedown you don't have to be huge. The Gracies aren't big guys and they grapple with some big fellas and don't have too much trouble taking them down.
In a real fight you only want the advantage of the takedown then kick the ****er hard multiple times:D

[1renox]

Scythe,

Thanks for sharing the experience. It’s good to hear what happens in the real world. A lot of guys haven’t been in a fight. I’ve known black belts who’ve had their butts handed to them more than once.

LOL about that part where he was running like a little girl. That was FUNNY!!

Yes, getting hit in the nose is tough. Once was hit square on the knob by a ricocheted racquetball and busted wide open. Man, did that p**s me off and there wasn’t really anybody to get angry at. It just plain hurts and makes a person mad.

Thanks again. No matter how trained we are, I think we seldom can escape unscathed.
I think your point is valid when you say: “Why did all MMA guys start grappling? Because that’s the best way to win a fight without getting hit.”

[apoweyn]

So you left your four children unattended to go after this guy with a tire iron?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

thats what i was gonna say, but he never said how old they were.

[Liokault]

Scythe


In response to Liokault
I'd say that was exactly the point.:

Got to disagree.

The point is that you came out with out being maimed or killed not that you feel you won. The other guy got a good smack on the nose in on you, is he down the pub telling every one how he kicked the **** out of you? Knowing (hardley anything about) human beings I think he probably is.

[cutter]

i'm glad you weren't seriously injured. it sounds to me likeyou learned a great deal from this experience, so in that you are fortunate. there is a saying"train for chaos, thrive in chaos". whatever else you may have learned, i'll bet that next ime you are in a situation you'll be much calmer.

[Scythe]

in reply to Apoweyn:

Yes I'm afraid so, it was not a choice when I get mad in a fight I'm not thinking bout anything but doing some injury.


Liokault:

LoL you are probably right, but then thats part of what ****ed me off about getting hit in the first place. But then what do I give a **** about what he is telling his mates...in his mind he knows what went on.

1renox:

Funny that about the Black belts who get their ass kicked, you're right there are many of them. The thing is alot will have trained for along time in the martial arts and never had a fight they then go and teach, its a bit like trying to teach someone to swim without ever having got in the water!

[apoweyn]

Scythe,


in reply to Apoweyn:

Yes I'm afraid so, it was not a choice when I get mad in a fight I'm not thinking bout anything but doing some injury.

Well, you don't sound proud of that, which I can respect.

I can certainly understand developing tunnel vision under stress. But if you've got to draw some lesson from this, I'm thinking it needs to be about priorities. Not whether takedowns or punches work better. Or when you should morally have relented on your attacks. Or whether a punch in the nose justifies chasing the guy down.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to get overly lecturey. But you've got four kids. That has to be more important than some git in the front driveway.


Stuart B.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
thats what i was gonna say, but he never said how old they were.

Babysitting age, I guess.


Stuart B.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah but that could be 6 through 12 which isnt as bad as 1 through 5.

how old are the little buggers anyway?

[apoweyn]

Well, that's true enough. I could well have jumped to conclusions.

I do that on occassion, making my sig line all the more apropos.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

nothing wrong with being passionate about the well being of children. im with ya brother.

[Chen Zen]

The biggest fault I see in your experience on your part is that frter he ran away you gave chase. Not only is this not very smart it caused you to get hit. If he is running then you have won. If you give chase it makes you the aggressor in the eyes of the law. Leaving your training behind is common so I cant hold that against you and I am glad you did not sustain further injury.

[Scythe]

For everyones info the kids are between 11 and 3 years old.

Am I such a terrible father because some **** came to my house wanting a fight and I went out to defend myself? In my opinion if there was ever a reason to fight that was it! I'm not a trouble maker but if it comes to my front door I will get stuck in and deal with it not hide inside while someone is beating my door down.

There was no danger of the kids getting hurt, albeit this guy was a wanker he was not a child murderer, and even if he had been he would not have got close enough to cause any harm unless he killed me first.

My children are obviously my first priority over and above anything so please, everyone get off your high horses and put yourselves in my position!

[Samurai Jack]

In your position I would have called the police as soon as I took the phone call, rather than risk my children being traumatized or injured. What would've been the outcome for them?

How good do you look in the eyes of your kids chasing a guy down the street with a tire iron? How would it have affected them if you'd killed the guy and went to prison? What if you'd been killed or seriously hurt?

I think you've gotta rethink this entire altercation from the perspective of a responsible parent, because you sound more like a thug than I think you realize.

[EvolvingPower]

I had to read the original post again... and laugh again... now that the discussion is moving towards the ecology and environment of the fight.

If you can please keep all judgement in check until the end of the post then read on.

Before posting about what a thug behavior or irresponsible Scythe was(there are legal ramifications, plus the wellfare and example to his kids)...

...or how right he is to defend his home personally (isn't that why we study combat technologies and martial arts? Because the responsability of our safety is in OUR hands?)...

Notice if you've had similar situations... associate into them, relive them... specially the emotional content... the indignation, fear and rage.

Now imagine being in Scythe's situation...

If you have any Warrior mentality at all, you would defend your home and loved ones at all costs.

I would've had a stick, a bat, several knives and a gun nearby...

a deterrent show of power... as to civilize the situation. If he kept coming, a warning that the force might be used and an suggestion to talking. If he kept going after this...

"The knowlede of Combat and the livelihood of non Combat are the keys to Peace."

The police can do nothing UNLESS he already messed something up. Law enforcement is not the same as Crime Prevention. Or even Life Preservation.

About responsible parenting... this post doesn't go into such detail as to suggest anything in that direction, thus I don't touch it.

Yet it is implied that this doesn't happen everyday.

On a side note... if my kid says stories at school how his Dad chased down a guy that ran like a little girl... that would be really cool!

[Scythe]

Thank you for the support evolving power.

In response to the all knowledgable Samurai Jack: for your information, to cover my ass should anything go off I had called the police straight after the phone call.

The police do not exactly rush out to your assistance unless something is actually happening. They must have thousands of calls every day about threatening phone calls alot of which probably come to nothing, you can't expect them to come rushing to the side of every person who reports one of them.

Hence they did not arrive until two or three calls later from neighbours telling them what was going on.

To assume that I am a thug simply because once involved in a situation like that I will continue to fight by whatever means until one party can no longer continue is a generalization that you cannot make without knowing me personally.

If your reasoning is that one should under no circumstances ever fight then why on earth do you study 'Martial' arts.

If someone coming to your house to attack you is not a reason to fight then I don't know what is!:confused:

[Samurai Jack]

Look, I'm actually assuming that you're not the kind of guy who runs around looking for trouble, or I wouldn't even bother to post a reply to your thread.

I was simply concerned by your lack of mentioning much consideration for your kids in this affair. Sure, I'm all for defending your home, your family, and yourself, but the instant you start chasing a guy down the street, you lose all legal and moral credibility. I suspect you already know that.

Also, the fact thet you walked out your front door and waited for the guy is another mistake I believe. It shows premeditation on your part, and therefore sets you up for more legal problems.

You also don't have any witnesses to the initial stages of the confrontation. All your man had to say was that he came over to talk to you about rent, the two of you started to argue, you attacked him, and he tried to run away. All your witnesses saw according to your account was two guys fighting, then one trying to run away while the other went for a tire iron. Frankly, it's amazing to me that you weren't taken to jail yourself.

Finally, what effect did it have on your kids to see all this going down. Do you think it was good for them to see dad's face covered in blood and his nose broken? Was it good for them to sit waiting for you in the house, listening to shouting, cursing, and god knows what outside?

This situation was not well thought out, and isn't anything to brag about. That's all I'm saying.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

sj .... if a guy just punched you in the nose and ran away you don't think you'd go after him at least a little ways? maybe its not the smartest legal thing to do, but you can't blame a guy for being pi ssed after sh it's already hit the fan. i might be wrong, but i didn't get the impression that he chased the guy all the way down the block either. more like from the house to the sidewalk.

"Also, the fact thet you walked out your front door and waited for the guy is another mistake I believe. It shows premeditation on your part, and therefore sets you up for more legal problems."

i disagree. someone said they were coming over, he knew there was likely gonna be trouble, and he didnt want to give the guy even the slightest chance of making it in his house.

"Finally, what effect did it have on your kids to see all this going down. Do you think it was good for them to see dad's face covered in blood and his nose broken? Was it good for them to sit waiting for you in the house, listening to shouting, cursing, and god knows what outside?"

i'm sure it wasn't emotionally scarring. i think our society is getting really pussified regarding "emotional scarring." i mean if it were an everyday thing, sure it would effect how the kid turned out, but seeing dad get in a fight is not going to turn them on to violence and crack.

i agree with what you said about the neighbors stories matching a possible fabrication though.

Scythe ...... i aint high or on a horse. though i may just have to fix one of those before the night is out. i just worry about kids. having an 11 year old watch out for the others is much different than leaving 4 infants in the house alone.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Scythe
A landlord I was doing some work for blamed me because a tenant did not pay his rent.


What ate the exact relationships to said landlord and his tenant?

You did some work for "A landlord" and he blames you for one of his tenants not paying the rent.
:confused: :confused:



He phoned me in a rage and said he was coming round to get his money. I was in babysitting my 4 kids. So shut the door and went outside and waited for him at the end of my driveway.

This is the time when you notify the cops of a possible attack on you and put a tape-recorder/Video Camera handy to record everything that is said.

Getting a few witnesses is also a good thing.

Besides that the scenario you gave doesn't make sense, I think that the situation was handled very poorly.

Just my thoughts.

[Scythe]

Samuari Jack, The legal thing was not a problem, I was completely covered, I had called the police after the phone call telling them of my professional relationship with this guy and his threats.

As for me walking outside to wait for him, that in the police's eyes did not pose a problem, after all you can't premeditate someone coming round your house to cause trobule can you.

The only time I would have been in the sh it would be if i caught up with him with the Jack handle and beat the living crap out of him with it, hence the reason I thought better of it when I knew the police were on their way.

You're right the situation was not well thought out, and the last thing I am doing is bragging about it..... If I was I certainly would not have mentioned the fact i took a cracking shot on the nose would I?

Gunned down: I think we are on the same wavelength.

Laughing cow:

I was his agent, I collected his rent and passed it on to him. After the tenant left, they owed a couple of weeks rent which came out of their deposit, this **** sucker did not lose out, and should have pursuing the tenant legally....He was lacking one thing ... a brain.

LOL I don't think I was in FBI mode at the time so I didn't have a wire handy and a vid camera. This thing happened within a few minutes so i didn't have time for arranging witnesses!

Something like that happens on the spur of a moment you can't plan your legal case before you've got involved in anything.



Those who are moaning about the way I handled this, it would be interesting to see how you would handle the same situation.

If he phoned me again, i would be outside waiting for him again...this time though the only thing i would do different is not allow him the space to get a shot in.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Those who are moaning about the way I handled this, it would be interesting to see how you would handle the same situation."

"SATAN KILL"

.... dude runs away.

i like having a 100lb black shepard named satan.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

not two seconds after i posted that the a sshole steps on my nuts. his friendly way of letting me know he's got to go pee.

[Scythe]

LoL, there are advantages and disadvantages of having a huge dog!

[Neurotic]

>laughs<

I have a 40kg German shepard as well..

Although I think I would end up defending her rather than the other way around :rolleyes:

She does her best job when she can safely bark at you from behind the fence ;)

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Scythe
For everyones info the kids are between 11 and 3 years old.

Am I such a terrible father because some **** came to my house wanting a fight and I went out to defend myself? In my opinion if there was ever a reason to fight that was it! I'm not a trouble maker but if it comes to my front door I will get stuck in and deal with it not hide inside while someone is beating my door down.

There was no danger of the kids getting hurt, albeit this guy was a wanker he was not a child murderer, and even if he had been he would not have got close enough to cause any harm unless he killed me first.

My children are obviously my first priority over and above anything so please, everyone get off your high horses and put yourselves in my position!

Relax chief. No you aren't a terrible father. But yes, I do consider that a big mistake. You went out there to defend yourself: Fine. Trouble came to your front door: Fine.

But then you beat the crap out of trouble and it left your front door. That's where it should have ended.

I'm not really thinking he was a child murderer either. But children have babysitters for a reason. And if that reason were primarily 'child murderers', babysitters would probably be a lot bigger and a lot better armed.

As for getting off my high horse, you posted a story about an altercation looking for feedback. What do you want me to say? If all you wanted was praise for your insights on streetfighting, I'm sorry. I just don't think that's the most salient part of this story.


Stuart B.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Neurotic .... as he gets older he's actually becoming much more aggressive to strangers than i ever intended. i haven't decided if i like it or not yet, but i definatly feel safer when my woman takes him with her places. he's fine if someone is welcomed into the house (aside from the fact he's a little over zealous for attention), but he's definately not cool with someone he's not framiliar with approaching the car or us on the street. just yesterday i thought he was gonna break through the glass and kill the gas station attendant for approaching suzi at the window.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

oh when i say older i should note that he just turned a year old ... i didnt mean older like he's seven or something.

[Neurotic]

Well you DID call him Satan.

What did you think was going to happen? He was going to be a nice fluffy bunny? :D

My dog is 7... so she has the ability to say that she is now too dignified to get into ruck and tumble. Personally I think she's just too lazy :p

[Shaolin-Do]

all you have to do is socialize him a little more... My friends boxer had the same problem... take him to the park, or somewhere with people... hes always going to be protective of you, and even more so of your woman... its just his nature... but letting him meet a lot of people should break down a couple barriers, and let him be a *little* friendlier with strangers...

[rogue]

Am I such a terrible father because some **** came to my house wanting a fight and I went out to defend myself? In general? Yes. Your responsibility was to babysit (protect) your children not get into a fight. If you were walking in the park with your family and someone wanted to fight what would you do?

Scyth, I agree with apoweyn, why were you chasing him down the street when you were supposed to be babysitting your kids?

[Scythe]

reply to Rogue:

For all those that would just sit there and take **** from some twat completely bent on fighting with you and not do a thing, I praise you for your ability to sit on a floaty cloud and be the righteous ones...is it in fact that you are righteous or a bunch of pussies who stand there while others kick sand in your faces! that is a question only you guys can answer. If someone tried to attack me in any circumstances...yes walking in the park with my family then yes f**king right I would fight the b*stard, I would not just stand there and get beat up because of the fact i was with my family! If righteousness involves having your ass kicked then you can keep it!

[Laughing Cow]

Scythe.

What the guys are saying is that your FIRST priority should be your family, caring for them, protecting them and providing for them.

By getting involved in a fight you run the risk of injury, jail or even death.
Dead, jailed or injured people are not good providers and protectors.

I am pretty sure you knew beforehand about the guys attitude and it didn't just blow out of the blue.

Part of being a MA is trying to handle a situation correctly and this might mean NOT fighting if it is the best option.

Being calm and in control is the prime attribute of any decent fighter.

Like I said, a Tape-recorders works wonders in situations as the one you faced,
I have used them myself and most people calm down very quickly when they realise that they are being taped and it can be used as proof against them.

Same way most answering phones can also be used to record conversations.

All it takes is a "hold on" and the push of 1 button.

Take care.

[rogue]

Never said anything about not fighting, but leaving the house after calling the cops was a mistake, but we'll carry on.

Let's take a look at what IMO you did wrong.


So shut the door and went outside and waited for him at the end of my driveway. A better method is to wait where he can't see you or isn't expecting you to be and if possible where you can approach him from his six. Gives you time to size him up, see if he has a weapon and see if he brought backup.


He turned up and stormed out of his car Did you leave yourself in a position where he could have hit you with the car? Angry people do things on impulse and opportunity.


and came nose to nose with me and said something along the lines of 'wheres my ****ing money' You let a guy get that close?


with that I told him to sling his hook in not so many words. He then tried to headbutt me to which he did'nt get very far he then swung a couple and caught me not very hard though, so I lined him up and cracked him right in the head and followed it up with another. He then ran away like a little girl.Good, end of fight, go back into the house and wait for the police.

I follwed after him calling him a little **** etc. It's at this point you crossed the line.


I agree Laughing Cow.

[fa_jing]

I wouldn't worry about the kids seeing the blood and fight. They have to be aware of the violence that exists in society, and depending what kind of school they go to, may be in some altercations.

Depending on the maturity of the 11 year old, it might have been OK to stray away a bit. I used to babysit when I was 11. But it wasn't good to be out of sprint range back to the house.

[Laughing Cow]

Scythe.

Imagine the following scenario:

While you were outside & chasing the guy down the road one of the Kids that you were babysitting got injured by doing something stupid and silly that could have been prevented with you there.

Would you blame the little ones injury on the other guy or on your own conduct.

Also you were on private property either your own or with permission on someone elses as you were babysitting.

If he tries to get in to get you, he is breaking and entering, plus by simply being on the property he is already trespassing as you didn't invite him in.

To be honest I get the feeling that you appear to have a bit of an ego problem.

IME, the story sounds a bit fishy and way too much biased towards you.
People don't just flip out like that and try to knock someones block of like over some money.
Especially when they got an established business relation.

I have dealt with some nasty customers myself, the worst one being a landlord that was the wife of a lawyer and thought she can do whatever.
We went to court see insisted on her Husband representing her, I told the court I object as he cannot be impartial due to their marriage.
That was accepted and another lawyer requested for her.
Case was dismissed 30 minutes later.
In this I used a small tape-recorder to record what she said that even her husband was not aware of(verbal abuse, threatening of my GF, etc.)

I am sure that there is a story leading up this event that was not told.

Like I said, IME, people don't act like that without some serious provocations.

Cheers.

[rogue]

I'm still trying to reconcile...

I did not look for it it came to me
with

I tried to catch up with him and get him to stand like a man and fight but he was gone I couldn't catch him. The twat had left his car running outside my house, so I grabbed his keys so he couldn't go anywhere. I then grabbed a jack handle out of the boot of my car and went to find him with the full intention of killing him.

Sounds like you met the fight half way.

:rolleyes:

[Laughing Cow]

Scythe.

What happened after that?

Did they guy ever come back to claim his car?

Did the police get involved at all?

Was a court case filed and held.?

Like rogue said, there are quiet a things you said that don't add up correctly.

[Scythe]

Laughing cow:

I am not in the habit of making up stories and if i was I would make one up where i did not take a smack in the nose!
As for your assumption that people do not act like that....wake up call ...yes they do..this a**hole did! How you think its biased toward me I don't know just cos I was the one who ended up seeing him off.

Rogue:

When i said I did not look for it I did not, but when it came I was not gonna hide I was going to take it too him.

Laughing cow:

Point by point I shall answer.

What happened after that?... the police came after the neighbours called them and took the guy away and kept him in the cells for about 8 hours I made a statement trying to sway them into charging him with something hefty.


Did the guy come back to get his car?... yes after the police released him they escorted him back to get his car and to avoid a breach of the peace.

Did the police get involved at all?.... see the above

Was a court case held and filed?... No to my disappointment the guy had a previously clean record and was let off with a caution to which I was rather annoyed.

Things I say do not add up correctly?......What the hell are you talking about! I've said how it was, think what you like.

[rogue]

I guess you forgot to tell the police
I then grabbed a jack handle out of the boot of my car and went to find him with the full intention of killing him.

You have some issues you should get help with.

[Scythe]

It must be nice to be so god dam perfect!

[rogue]

So you believe hunting a guy who you beat down so you can kill him with a tire iron is a minor character flaw?

You need help.

[Shaolin-Do]

I prefer a crobar. ;)

[Laughing Cow]

Scythe.

No matter how much you tell the guy just flipped out like that with a clean record.

It still sounds very strange.

People don't walk up to other people and try to beat them up unless there was some form of provocation.

Might be something you said to him during the Telephone conversation or something that happened earlier.

Cheers.

[Scythe]

Laughing cow:

What you have to understand is that there are some very strange fu*ked up people out there.

I could explain the situation from start to finish but it is not really the point, the whole thing started as a civil dispute which should have been dealt with legally through the courts. The guy knew he had no case to get any money from me and was not best happy about it. I had him signed into a contract saying that I was not liable for any rent arrears from his tenant. What this dumb a**hole could not get through his thick head was that he should have been pursuing his tenant through the correct legal channels to try to recover his money. He obviously knew he did not stand too much chance of getting it from any quarter as to pay legal fees would have cost him more than the money he was owed and he was obviously looking for someone to blame.

Have you never just come across someone who is just a complete a**hole? not everyone is a normal rational human being if they were then there would never be a fight or war for that matter and we would all live in utopia.

[VactsRachet]

I think what you did is wrong to an extent, you never know what the other guy might have done if scythe had not gone out and fought him...he might have came in and killed his kids. You dont know how peoples minds work, nobody does

I would lay my life on the line to protect my family and kill anybody who wished to hurt them. What scythe did was wrong but he was only protecting his loved ones

[Laughing Cow]

Have you never just come across someone who is just a complete a**hole? not everyone is a normal rational human being if they were then there would never be a fight or war for that matter and we would all live in utopia.

To be honest, no, I never have neither has anyone that I know.
I have met quiet a few tough and ready to fight guys, but never a guy like the one you mentioned.

If the guy went after you than most probably he saw you as weak and easy prey.


I think what you did is wrong to an extent, you never know what the other guy might have done if scythe had not gone out and fought him...he might have came in and killed his kids. You dont know how peoples minds work, nobody does

Now why would a guy that only wants some cash, all of a sudden want to kill a few kids and go amok??

I think you re shooting of into the deep end here.

As for protecting Family and kids, I can tell you that your tough ready-to-fight stand-point will change when you got a family of your own.

Or do you want to let your kids see their daddy beat someone up and so on.
Most women I know also don't take kindly to men that fight a lot.

Seeya.

[1renox]

Ever hear of "road rage"? Yes, there are some dangerous and strange people out there who will attack you over even the slightest provocation.

RANT ON FOR ALL YOU SCYTHE DETRACTORS:
Ever been angry? Ever done anything irrational while angry?
If you can answer 'No' to both those questions, then your brain dead.

And while I'm being so offensive---I'm so sick of the wussies who are always saying things like,' What if he had a gun?"..."What if he had a knife?".."What if he had killed the babies?".."What if...". WAKE UP PEOPLE. Scythe told it like it is.

'GO, SCYTHE, GO!!!' It's a shame our so-called 'modern society' has reduced us to a bunch of 'tape recording' defense experts. Fact is, some people deserve a good butt kicking.

It was barely 100 hundred years ago, before we all became politically correct, browe-beaten by the law, wussie Zen heads that if Scythe actually had beaten the guy with a crobar that Scythe might have been justified. And if that didn't take care of it, Scythe could have killed him in a duel.
:RANT OFF


AND ANOTHER THING: Why try to read between the lines of his post? I thought it was about stand-up versus grappling and real fighting. Perhaps it should it be renamed Dr. Brazelton's family care.

[1renox]

You'd better be MORE WILLING and MORE READY when you have a family--


Originally posted by Laughing Cow

As for protecting Family and kids, I can tell you that your tough ready-to-fight stand-point will change when you got a family of your own.

Or do you want to let your kids see their daddy beat someone up and so on.
Most women I know also don't take kindly to men that fight a lot.

Seeya.

Do you want to let your kids see their daddy getting beat up or worse?
Most women don't want to get accosted or worse.

Hit decisivley, hit first, hit hard and without mercy and don't stop until the obstacle is removed.

[Laughing Cow]

1renox.

I get a feeling you don't have much life-experience.

The point is NOT not to fight but rather get beat up, but NOT to get into a situation where there is a need to fight.

Or to de-escalate the situation that there is NO need to fight.

NEXT time read what I wrote and don't read what YOU think I wrote.
Your comment about women not being wanted to be acosted is a prime example of that.

Also your fighting strategy in your last posts shows your attitude and experience level in real life situation.
And your level of MA experience too.
In your case I think a RPG would be better suited than MA training for self defense.

My guess is you don't have a Family yet.

Cheers.

[1renox]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
1renox.

I get a feeling you don't have much life-experience.


Does anybody? Life-experience must be defined in context of the subject. I don't have much experience as a Mandarin interpreter, but I'm a darn good programmer. I don't have much experience in politics, but I'm very good at public speaking.
It is amazing to me that so many people "get a feeling" about something without knowing any facts.

I can appreciate Scythe's situation because I've been in a similar encounter. A logical person might say
"Similar encounter" = life-experience.



The point is NOT not to fight but rather get beat up, but NOT to get into a situation where there is a need to fight.

Or to de-escalate the situation that there is NO need to fight.


I'll agree it is best NOT to fight. But sometimes you must.



NEXT time read what I wrote and don't read what YOU think I wrote.
Your comment about women not being wanted to be acosted is a prime example of that.


Perhaps I did misunderstand what your are trying to say.
I guess I was going off topic.

Agreed, it's true most women don't like guys who fight a lot.
I think a guy who likes to fight and looks for fights does his family a disservice by continuing that activity.

OK, three guys approach you in mall parking lot. They start making rude remarks about your wife and teenage daughter. Why? I don't know. What do you do? Talk them down? It happened to me. There was very little talk on my part, but they each apologized afterwards.

And off topic again: I think that a family man has a bigger obligation to handle situations quickly and decisively and if that means use of force then force must be applied.

On topic: I think use of force is justified even in matters of honor. I think in Scythe's case there is a matter of honor at stake.
And please don't pull a quote from Bartletts.



Also your fighting strategy in your last posts shows your attitude and experience level in real life situation.
And your level of MA experience too.
In your case I think a RPG would be better suited than MA training for self defense.

My guess is you don't have a Family yet.

Cheers.

I am a very blessed, happily married family man. Next to God, family is the most important thing in my life. I'm an MA student.
I will always be a student. Of the few encounters I've faced, the first attack was the most important.

BTW, do you know where I can get an RPG?

[Laughing Cow]

OK, three guys approach you in mall parking lot. They start making rude remarks about your wife and teenage daughter. Why? I don't know. What do you do? Talk them down? It happened to me. There was very little talk on my part, but they each apologized afterwards.

Ignore them. So far worked for me most of the times.

The other times I simply turned towards them and asked them if they want to make something out of it and if they were confident enough to take me out.

Most of those guys feel strong because they are in a group, they look deliberately for someone they think will not stand up to them. Ergo: Family people, elderly, minorities.

So you beat them up today, tomorrow they are at it again in a different location. Not worth it.

One of the best courses I ever took for SD purpose was "Self Assertivness", it really opened my eyes on how to deal with confrontations.
And they work for BOTH peole that are either over-assertive or the opposite.

As for RPG's I think Iraqi has quiet a few they longer want or need.
:D

[Scythe]

Thanks 1renox, You had me LMAO, i was begninng to think everyone in here was against the way I had to deal with the situation. They talk of life experience... there is obviously very few in this 'STREET REALITY FIGHTING' section who have ever had any experience of the subject matter.
I gave up bothering to try to explain my case to everyone when all the do-gooders started preaching at me about what a sh*t father I am.

Maybe i could have avoided the situation by hiding inside my house until the police got there while some idiot would have been trying to beat my door down. That is probably the way many pussies out there would have handled it, but thats not me, i would not be able to stop thinking about how my home had been invaded and i had done nothing to defend it.....sorry that would not sit well with my conscience!

All I can say to those do-gooders is this:

I hope you don't have to deal with a situation like this but if you do when you are lying on the floor pouring with blood with your a** kicked remember..... you are good person and your kids will respect you.
;)

[rogue]

Maybe i could have avoided the situation by hiding inside my house until the police got there while some idiot would have been trying to beat my door down. That is probably the way many pussies out there would have handled it, but thats not me, i would not be able to stop thinking about how my home had been invaded and i had done nothing to defend it.....sorry that would not sit well with my conscience! Count me as a puss then, I'm under no illusions about honor. I would have gone with my training and sent the kids to a safe room and taken an advantageous position in case he got in. In other words a clear line of fire. The last thing I want to have in real life is a fair fight, I want all the advantages.

[Laughing Cow]

Count me as a puss then too.

F@ck honour, glory and the big Ball attitude.
What would have happend if the guy would have stuck a knife into you, your Kids would have seen their TOUGH Dad bleed to death outside their House.
All that touhg guy(Big balls) talk smacks of people that can't seperate their ego from real-life.

Guess what the Morgues and ER's are full of guys that refuse to be Pussies and wusses.

I am with rogue, first make sure that the kids are in asfe palce and that take up a position which is to your advantage strategic and legal.

Cheers.

[Shaolin-Do]

Not taking any sides here...
As far as waiting for the ***** outside...
If I know Im fixin to have to fight, and someone is on the way to MY HOUSE to cause trouble, you are god d@mn right Im gonna wait outside to administer the beating out front, so I dont break any of the expensive @ss sh!t I have inside. But then again, I dont have children.
As far as talking people down....
Some times talking doesnt work, and the only way to quiet them up is a firm crack in the jaw.
Blah.
I dont go around beating people up. I just like to "**** in the wind" on occasion. :)
(light a fire under some arses)

[1renox]

Interesting mix of attitudes here.

I've learned quite a bit from this discussion.
One thing that keeps resounding is Scythe's original post when he said:

----------------
"Theres tactics that are useful and lots of bull**** which is not. Why did all MMA guys start grappling? because thats the best way to win a fight without getting hit."
-----------------


I've been toying with actually taking some ground fighting classes( as opposed to playing around ) and now I know I will.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by 1renox
----------------
"Theres tactics that are useful and lots of bull**** which is not. Why did all MMA guys start grappling? because thats the best way to win a fight without getting hit."
-----------------


1.) A good close-in fighter won't care that much about being taken down, you will eat his elbows and other various body-parts.

2.) Kicks to the head are more efficient if your opponent is prone on the ground.
:D

3.) Takedowns and throws work best against untrained opponents as their inability to land correctly will do a lot of damage.

Just some views.