Zhang Yi Mao's "Hero"/Ying Cong

[Ka]

Recently saw "Hero" and feel that Zhang has not only got a big hit on his hands but also will finnally make Li Lian Jie a actor in his own right within the west.And TL a sex symbol.
It seems also to be a very nationalistic movie hoping to apease his homeland auidence (I hear Zhang is a member of the party?)It features core items of our preception of Chinese culture The Emperor/Great Wall,Caligraphy/philosphy and ofcause Gungfu.Within the fade MA scene I sure it will create a new look at chinese swords and sword play.
Interested to see how others felt about the film?I clearly think it will rivial CTHD for the amount of veiwers it will attract within the West.
Cool Film highly recomended.

[joedoe]

I thought it wasn't due to be released until around October/November?

[Serpent]

Ah, piracy! ;)

(Joe, just got your e-mail, sorry for the delay!)

[Ka]

Just to set the records straight,I saw it in China,but the DVD was already on sale when I left.

[joedoe]

Serpent - no worries, I was about to call you. Might call you later anyway.

Ka - OK, makes sense. I have a VCD copy of it and it appears to be legit. Maybe someone is importing them from China. Miramax is gonna be unhappy :D

[Serpent]

I haven't got a VCD player (my PC is hopeless). I'll bring the beers JoeDoe and we'll watch it at your place, yeah?

;)

[joedoe]

No probs. We can watch it using my surround sound DVD player on the 68cm flat screen :D

[Serpent]

Dayum! I'm coming over tonight!

:D

[Guile]

Hey I gotta get that DVD too.
why wait a few months :D
Get the "official" chinese version (they come with subs right?)

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Serpent
Dayum! I'm coming over tonight!

:D

Ooooh baby :D

[Asia]

I got this on DVD about a month ago.

It been released in Asia but many didn't have English subtitles. I saw there is an OFFICAL (ie NOT BOOTLEGED) International DVD issue with English subs.


Check on Ebay. I am pretty sure you will find it.


As for the movie. IT ABSOLUTELY AWSOME!!!!! I makes me want to break out my King Yue Swords and go to town. It just Brilliant. I loved BOTH the story and the action.

[dezhen2001]

joedoe: got any more space there?
dayum i didnt know u had those at your place :D

dawood

[Chinwoo-er]

" It seems also to be a very nationalistic movie hoping to apease his homeland auidence (I hear Zhang is a member of the party?) "

( can someone please teach me how to qoute ?)

Er.......... not to state the obvious, but it IS a chinese film. You know. chinese production, chinese actors, chinese landscape, chinese history, chinese audiences ??? I hope I am not getting the wrong message here but I get the idea that what you are saying is that this is a way to brainwash the public for the party. I find it rather unlikely that promoting chinese values in a chinese movie is a way of apease homeland audience for the evil communist party. When was the last time when a US movie that involved the govenement and soldiers not promoting freedom or peace ? You give people what they want because that is what makes the $$$$.


Returning to the film. I LOVED it. I think the story and fighting beats CTHD. Although there was one thing that I have noticed is that the martial arts fighting style is 2000 years out of date. The way in which they are fighting are more common suited in the Ming era and forward. And with Jet Li's wushu fighting style, it is more appropriate for a modern era. The fact that it was the Qin dynasty meant that the style should resemble japanese sword play a little more. Although it is probably the case that they still used single hand swords, the moves shouldn't flow so well, and the "one strike, one kill" idea should still be in place.

I think that there one part of it that hit me the hardest.
Think about it, will you let your country die if it means that the world could have peace ( ignore the fact that the Qin emperor was one of the worse tyrants ever to walk the earth ). Lets say that there was this really benevolent, wise, person who will unite the world under one flag. Bring unity, harmony and prosperity to all mankind. We have all start making love :D instead of making war. But in order to do that, your country must fall. How would you choose ?

[Stacey]

bought the dvd in China town for 10 bucks.

I liked it, but It will never go over in the US. Its too Chinese

[Guile]

Where? NYC chinatown?

[Kinjit]

It's already released here in Sweden. Suckers!
The visual poetry alone should make this a classic. Absolutely breathtaking. My mandarin teacher felt it wasn't true to the feel of China, as it's too antiseptic - I understand her point but when it looks this good, I don't care for accuracy. :)

[Ka]

Chinwooer
No I think you misunderstood,Zhang's past movies are not as accepted within china as the praise he had received in the west,This movie seems a departure form his previous efforts to as you say tell a story close to the hearts of mainland chinese(or at least involving a mayor historical figure).You are quite correct in saying he is giving them what they want,this may be the difference as past movies where precisely not what the CCP wanted.C Dolye did cinematography,with Zhang clearly presenting some of the most stunning lanscapes china has to offer.

Interesting note on how they present Qin as a man forced to do the atrocities(as you pointed out) for the good of uniting the country.

[omarthefish]

I just cut and pasted my own post on this subject form another board:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Cradle in the Grave' was made for Hollywood. 'Hero' was made for China. Hero hasn't had a domestic release yet. Cradle inThe grave wasn't even out on bootleg when I left China last month. Interesting thing about 'Hero'...

The Chinese HATE it! I mean really pick it to pieces. Not only Jet Lee but the other two assasins and the Emperor are played by HUGE stars inChina. Most Chinese I talked to couldn't stand what they felt were wooden stilted performances. 'Hero' was a bigger deal in China than 'Titanic' was here. The adds were EVERYWHERE .. The Government was sort of trying to make a point about how they could make shiny gong-fu action extravaganzas too, not just H.K. this was a mainland prestige piece and a lot of the locals smelled it.

The other thing they hate was the emperor being portrayed as some sort of renaissance poet/warrior who was unifying China for the good of the people. A true scholar and benevolant ruler. Everybody know the first emperor was a paranoid psychotic tyrant who slaughtered all who opposed him. He promoted legalism as the state doctrine, not confucianism. Laws and penalties, not ethics and judgement. His dynasty was short lived. Only about 60 years. If he hadn't unified China and standardized the written language and so on he wouldn't even count as a dynasty.

Then there's the director, known in China for directing 'peasant movies'. Lots of slow shots of old women washing clothes in the river and young children harvesting wheat and so on. He's more know in China fore winning respect at 'foreign' film festivals like Cannes and Sundance then he is for pleasing the local Chinese.

Then there's the political overtones. UNIFYING China? Taiwan? Hong Kong? A brutal overbearing dictatorial government who's real concern is the 'wellfare of the common people and the strength of the nation'?


p.s. I loved it anyway. :D

[omarthefish]

p.p.s.

Oh, yeah, the media blitz was helped along by the fact that Zhang Yi-mo is from Xi'an where I was living so there was the "home town hero" aspect to the coverage as well as the other stuff.

[Chinwoo-er]

omarthefish, what you said is true. The Qin emperor did introduce some of the worse things to the Chinese people humans have ever seen. But isn't that exactly what the film is portraying ? That you can't know what the intention is behind he actions ? We can't know if he was a psychotic or a unfortunate victim of the time to bear on the label of a psychotic for a greater cause ( probably a little bit of both ) I think that if our parents, grandparents, great grandparents was born and died in a state of war, we will all understand that peace is worth whatever it takes. Because living in our luxury world, we will never really understand what it feel like to not be able to predict if we can live to the next sunrise. A 50 year war is one thing. At least one can live to see its end. But a 200 year war is quite different.

I am not a great fan of the Qin emperor. But let me just play the devil's advocate for now.
As evil as what you he is, lets not forget that he did unify china and ended a 200 year war. He did kill alot of people. But the people he kill most definately was not as much as the people who dies in wars. If he didn't end the war, who knows what could have happened. He standardized currency (something Europe couldn't do untill quite recently), measurements, language, road system, laws, built the great war that is a symbol of pride for the people. He may not have been very good carrying them out, but he did set the foundation for prosperity. It was only after the Han took over the land were all these aspects exploited and built up one of the most properous times. With the Wall, the people are able to live in "relative" safety". With all the standardization, the administration of such a large country can be carried out efficiently.

No doubt that the Qin emperor is a controversial ruler. But it would be naive to just state it out right he is just another hitler 2000 years ago.

[RAF]

Ying Xiong

Saw it without subtitles and had my wife had to translate it. She really didn't like it (Beijing ren). The sword and spear fight with Donny Yen was one of the best I have ever seen. The rest of the movie, oh well.

If you want a more realistic portrayal of the Emperor rent the Emperor and the Assassin. NO martial arts, long movie, bordering on boring except the Emperor is a reall son of a bytch, and the major redeeming feature is Gong Li.:p

[omarthefish]

Very funny. Right after I posted that rant I told the guy next to me what I was typing and then mentioned he should see 'The Emperoro and The Assasin' for a, IMHO, historically more likely accurate and anyways just a better movie. Actually I thought the few martial arts sequences it had were beautifull. They felt real. In their own way maybe more exciting than the spear vs. 3 swords scene, which was great untill Jet Li started floating sideways. That was my biggest gripe with Hero. Every time I thought the fighting just couldn't get any better. .. they would just totally ruin the whole scene and start running around on top of the water or springing off the ground by pushing off their sword tips or some other idiocy.

[SanSoo Student]

Got mine from ebay for about 14 bucks, and had a couple of friends over to watch it on my DVD. The friends that weren't didn't practice martial arts thought it was a bit artsy; however all my martial arts buddies thought the film kicked ass and was very well done. I must agree that it puts much emphasis on honor and the meaning of being a hero.

[RAF]

I agree with you Omarthefish, the floating took away from the fighting intensity but the first encounter, that spear technique was right on target. Hell, I thought it was Li Shu Wen himself

Some of my Chinese friends feel the emperor representives the current Chinese government with the message to Taiwan and Hong Kong and the world that China's reunification is inevitable and cannot be stopped.

They cut it too close to Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon, even the music sounded the same.

God, I sound like a critc! I am still going to purchase it and acutally enjoyed it (although my wife didn't).

Hey, Omarthefish, get a hold of Zhang Yi Mou's The Road Home (Chinese, My Father, My Mother). No martial arts but a great story about Gong Fu---also loyalty, dedication, and love. Yeah, a Chinese chick flick of sorts with some pretty deep themes that a martial artist could benefit from. :eek:

[LEGEND]

UNDERSTOOD the story but HATED it! American audience may not like it either depending if they can deal with TRAGEDIEs. I found HDCT a better story for american audience. The play by play may make it difficult for american audience to follow like Mission Impossible 1.

[omarthefish]

That's those political overtones I was talking about. And my GF really doesn't care for Zhang Ziyi. It seems like evey Chiense girl I knew had a real hard time accepting that she was some sort of 'ambassador' of Chinese beauty. Most of them think she's just "yi ban ban", so so.

Since I am writing this from a computer in my brothers video store, I just went and pulled "The Road Home" of the shelf. I'll check it out. Thanks.

Legend,

A lot of Chines hated the story too but not because they don't like tradgedy. More because it seemed cliched to them.



BTW, I had no idea how big Crouching Tiger was until I got back. It didn't make much of a splash in China. Weird. Sometimes I think our tates really are different. Then again it may be jsut that the Chinese cliche is new to Americans and vice-versa.