Crossing arms and attacking the centerline

[Chen Zen]

While my instruction in WC is limited I came across something that has got me concerned. I was told to, and have read from William Cheung, that to cross the arms effectively you stand to one side of the opponents centerline. Now when standing to one side of the centerline it seems harder to attack the centerline of the opponent. Also do you always stand to one side of the opponent or only when trying to cross the arms?Also when you change angles of attack does the opponent's centerline move with you? So if I side step to the left (my left) Does the centerline move this way as well now positioned down the side of the opponents body? One last question; When attacking the centerline of the opponent (from the front) it seems to me you put yourself in the direct line of his attack. Would that not put you more in danger?

[vingtsunstudent]

just quickly i do my best to never get my arms in a crossed over in any position, just like i never try to change to the other side of an opponent mid attack or defence and thus open myself up.
as to moving to the side to attack the centrline, think more of it as the central axis of your opponent that you are attacking.
as long as your attacks are moving in a straight line to the opponent and you are using correct facing they are going to have to absorb the full force of your blow as they have a lot less chance to roll or slip the attack, there are still many excellent targets available for you to attack and even though they may be side on you are still infact attacking their centre.
vts

[mun hung]

Chen Zen - I've been following some of your posts, and I must say that it seems as though you lack good instruction. You should find your answers thru a proficient WC instructor and not through an online forum.

The only way to learn something is by going out and doing it - everyday. Day in - day out. There are really no short-cuts to learning certain things. Some things are self-explanatory through daily practice with a good instructor.

[Phil Redmond]

I have never read any of Chen Zen's posts as you obvioulsy have. Your advice to him/her is on the money. I was going to try to explain the TWC central line theory to Chen Zen until I read your post. You saved me the time.

[[Censored]]

I was told to, and have read from William Cheung, that to cross the arms effectively you stand to one side of the opponents centerline.

No way. You can stand directly in front of your opponent, and threaten their position such that THEY have to reach across to avoid being hit. When you set them up properly, they cross their own arms.

One last question; When attacking the centerline of the opponent (from the front) it seems to me you put yourself in the direct line of his attack. Would that not put you more in danger?

Yes...but only if you don't know Wing Chun. :D

[Chen Zen]

You are right that my instructor is not an expert. He has only studied two years. I know that a forum, magazine or video will never replace a teacher I just need to hear things explained in different ways and seek to find different points of view as one person cannot cover all of them. Censored, I know that they cross there own arms but it was suggested by Mr. Cheung that they are more apt to do this if you are on one side of the centerline. I do practice what I have learned everyday and I find more of the answers on my own but I want to make sure they are the right answers. Also thank you VTS as your post seemed a little more leaned to what I was looking for. This is not to say that I dont appreciate everyone's input it just seems that VTS had more of my question in mind instead of questioning the source of my learning.

[[Censored]]

Censored, I know that they cross there own arms but it was suggested by Mr. Cheung that they are more apt to do this if you are on one side of the centerline.

Well, good for him.

What is your ideal position when the opponent's arms are crossed? Should you always attempt to cross the opponent's arms, even when doing so will limit your own options?

[Chen Zen]

Ok Censored here goes and after ward tell me what you think. If I have there arms crossed then I want to be to there side and the reason why is this; I can attack the head,neck and ribs by striking, I can put them in a choke hold and bring them down to the ground by pulling them backwards. If they try to attack me they either have to use the rear hand which probably won't make it or they have to attack to the side which will have ****her to travel since it is a hook and if it isn't a hook it will generate much less power than a straight punch out in front of you. Also from the side I can easily attack the opponents balance. I will not always try to cross the opponents arms due to the fact that it relies too much on the other person's actions. If I can make it happen great but it is not my ultimate goal which is to defeat my opponent the quickest easiest way with the least risk to personal injury.

[Stevo]

Vingtsunstudent's right.

It's a mistake to try to get to the opponent's side, thinking it's safer there (apart from 'side-stepping' when the opponent's force is overwhelming, which is a different application to what you're talking about here). That's just a waste of time. Wing Chun works from the front or the side. You react from whatever position you happen to be in when you're attacked or about to be attacked.

If you happen to be more to the side when attacked, intercept and strike into the opponent's centre using the Fook Sau principle. If front-on, use the Tan Sau principle (depending on the angle and trajectory of the attack against you). These become second nature through training, anyway.

I've been taught that it's a mistake to be focused on trapping in a fight - the focus should always be on striking the opponent, unless an obstacle is placed in the way, when Chi Sau skills come into play to get around it.

[azwingchun]

Chen I believe the side or back is always the safest place to be, though this may be due to my size and not being the largest guy around. Though, I will have to agree to a point with Stevo, take what is open. Don't ever plan your attack, it will seem to fail everytime, just react.

As far as the center line goes, I follow the centerline/coreline theory. No matter where you are standing if you cut your opponent dead center of mass that is the center that I attack. Back to the analogies (LOL), just like cutting a pie directly down the center, no matter where you stand in position to the pie. ;)

[Chen Zen]

I know not to plan what will happen and just to take what is there Censor asked me where I would want to be if I had the opponents arms crossed already and I said the side. I also am not a man of large stature so this feels the safest for me. Also where does everyone get the cool little pics under there names? I want one.!!lol

[Wingman]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
Also where does everyone get the cool little pics under there names? I want one.!!lol

The cool little pics are called avatars. You can get them by following the instructions below:

1. Click at "User Control Panel" at the top of the page.
2. Click at "Edit Options" at the top of the page.
3. Click the "Avatar" button found near the bottom of the page.
4. Select a pic by providing the URL of the pic. Note that there is a limitation of the size of the pic.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

[reneritchie]

The opponent's center exists regardless of your positioning relative to them. If it helps, picture the spine, then smash straight through that.

Discussing the merits of facing (Jing San) vs. flanking (Pien San) is a little silly, IMHO. Those are tactical considerations given the conditions of the moment. The face is usually faster, the flank safer. But a lot depends on your skill relative to your opponent. In any event, don't bind yourself to one approach, or insist on one thing, but take what is available. If you spend all your effort trying to get to the side, or trying to stay to the front, you might miss some golden opportunities.

[Chen Zen]

tank you. Good advice and thanks for avatar instructions. Do you know how I could use a pic I already have and turn it into an avatar? Thanx again

[Matrix]

With respect to using an exisiting image as an avatar, you may need to use a bitmap editor. There are certain limitations to the image that you can use such as, the maximum size of your custom image is 50 by 50 pixels or 20000 bytes (whichever is smaller). You can resample an existing image to make it fit, or crop it or both.

Matrix

[Chen Zen]

I have no idea what you just said but thanks.

[Matrix]

If you have an image that you want to use, give it to someone who knows something about computer grahics and ask them to make it to the limits that I've psoted.

Or you can send it to me (send me a Private Message) with any instructions and I'll fix it up for you. :cool:

Matrix

[Chen Zen]

Thanks I will send it to you.

[Ultimatewingchun]

In TWC the crossed arm starting position is almost exactly what you saw in "ENTER THE DRAGON"...at the tournament when, say for example Bruce Lee lined up - crossed wrists touching with Bob Wall...

But in TWC - our centerline is now facing at apx. a 45 degree angle away from the line of engagement; and the vertical line upon which the arms (wrists) are touching...is referred to in TWC as the Central line...not the centerline...we use, guard, and attack from that line the same way you use the centerline that runs directly down the front of your body....only now, as I said, our body (not the arms)...the body...is slightly turned either to the left or right.

After we have gained entry ( ie.- have occupied this new line as we come forward and attack you...then we might start to square up (our centerline) and continue the attack on this line...meaning our centerline (not the central line) is now directly facing the center of your body...not necessarily YOUR centerline...but the center of your body.

[Chen Zen]

Thank you. Very informative Sifu.