Cho family wing chun

[dezhen2001]

sorry i have nothing constructive to add to any other threads, im just a newbie :)

i had just never seen Cho family wing chun before i saw this article by wong kiew kit on dragonlist

http://www.dragonslist.com/kwoon/index.php?id=63

looks really interesting to compare it to the yip man wing chun i practise badly :)

does anyone know of any more good links on it?

dawood

[PaulH]

Hi There,

I found this link for you. There are many interesting posts on this sites. Enjoy your time her.

http://shaolin-wahnam.tripod.com/

Regards,

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Out of curiosity, how much does the Cho family WCK that you practice look like the pictures on that site?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Sandman2[Wing Chun]
Out of curiosity, how much does the Cho family WCK that you practice look like the pictures on that site?


Hi Sandman,

No easy answer.

There is a different between Cho family WCK and Yik Kam's WCK.

Cho family wck has different Nam Kuen component involved which even include CLF. This was introduced at Cho Dak Seng Time. In Cho family we even have a set name as CLF. Some people in the family even change the salutation of WCK with CLF component.
some even asked me if there exist two sets of SLT.....
So, that is a part of evolution of Cho family.

However,
Yik Kam SLT is passed to Cho Soon by Yik Kam at red junk time. and that is the core or seed of Cho family WCK.
Cho Soon is the father of Cho Dak Seng. Who is the student of Yik Kam and both of them are actors.

(please read my article on Www.wingchunkuen.com for the more details...)


Thus, if you noticed. I use the term Yik Kam SLT when there is related to White Crane and Emei 12 zhuang.

That is to differentiate....
I prefer to strickly go by book (kuen kuit) on what is passed down by Yik Kam instead of go by legend.

Since Cho Soon and Yik Kam were indeed Hung Mun at their time and involve with Taiping. With the code in salutation ... to proof or as evident. Indeed the code has similarity to the one in Dien Chun Dang of Shang Hai. Certainly, there are stories of Shao Lin, and every set of Cho means a different style...... and the CLF actually is a combination of Mok Kar and CLF.......

On another hand,
The Yik Kam SLT involve into the legacy of indoor student.
For generation,
Cho family let this set out very cautiously.
Since Cho family is a martial art family who teaches martial art for many many decade in China.
Many student learn only the set contribute by Cho Dak-Seng and not the 4 section SLT.
That is all what I can said. Other is family business. As you know, chinese is conservative.


As for what sifu Wong Kiew-kit did.
Since I havent seen him for 25years. I have not yet ask him how is his interpretion of my sifu's art. Eventhought, I went back to Penang every few years lately and meet with some of my older sihengs.

I know sifu Wong Kiew-kit is a great master of Shao Lin, Hung Kuen, and TaiJi..... He also master of advance Hung gar set like the Iron wire. so it is his will to inteplate what he knows as he likes it.
I respect him but in certain situation, such as, I disagree with him that FaKuen is the core of WCK.
And also, I bring up The name of Cho Soon while he and the chapter of Complete WC of Robert, Rene, and Y Wu missed out.


As my late sifu Cho Hung-Choy said, every man has his will.
Or Yang Kok Yau Chee. I prefer to go by book of Yik Kam but I respect everyone's free will. Nothing right or wrong but everyone is different.

just for a different way of doing things, as the example of sifu Wong Kiu-kit defence on the Horn punch using cover... in above's pictures. I will walk in close with an angle with a Ying bil jee to hit the center line ... without caring the horn punch, rather then move backward and cover...

The closest between two points is a straight line, as it said in Kuen Kuit "Fong Hoong Jek Yap " ( when there is opening go in direct) and move back might lost a step... That is my belive.
Sifu Wong has a way of more circular and I like spiral within straigh and keep close. different people different intepretation.

[dezhen2001]

thanks for the information :)

dawood

[captain]

a "newbie" with almost 4000 posts!??

[dezhen2001]

a newbie to wing chun! ive been on KFO a while! :D

dawood

[reneritchie]

Hendrik is very polite. Wong is an interesting person. For a while on his website he was claiming Yip Kin (of Malaysian WCK) was Yip Man's 3rd son (he wasn't).

In general, WCK in South East Asia was more a matter of day to day survival, rather than lineage purity, so in Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. you see many branches that blended WCK with other arts. When WCK later became popular, following the grand tradition, the various (often feuding) "leaders" of these branches claimed theirs was the real true original, etc. version, and politics again plagued poor WCK.

Hendrik's sifu had many students, as did Hendrik's sigung. Not all learned just WCK, and some even learned just CLF or other stuff. Now, you can find versions heavily influenced by Hung Ga iron wire, CLF, etc.

In sorting out the various SEA WCK branches, IMHO we need to look at their Chinese "relatives" (ie., Yuen Kay-San for Yuen Chai-Wan, Cho Chuen for Cho On, etc.). Hendrik calls the various mixtures "Cho Ga SLT" or "Cho Ga WCK" to be polite and give face, since they all learned at least in part from the Cho Family, and the blends have been developed since Cho Dak-Shing's time. What Hendrik calls the Yik Kam SLT, however, is what was passed down in the family to disciples, and is what is not only consistent with what is practiced in the Cho lineage in China (even saw it in Guangzhou), but is close to what is practiced in Yuen Kay-San and Gulao lineages (with its own distinctions, of course).

Special thanks to Hendrik for continuing to preserve and promote the Siu Lien Tao of Yik Kam and the Cho's.

[Phenix]

Thanks Rene,

Since a picture is better then a thousand word. and why belive me anyway. I have my own of interpretation.



Rene, Jim, Joy, Tom.....

Here I decide to post three old pictures of Yik Kam applications... So the general public has a taste of big picture instead of rely on me or anyone's claim...

[Phenix]

next picture...

These are pictures as old as before I learn how to walk or learning about multplication table... :D

[Phenix]

This is how Side stance being use. .. noticed body closing in ...

[TjD]

is there much use of lower stances in the Cho family WCK?

i know in the ip man lineage there used to be a low stance with a strike in one of the forms (i think chum kiu). quite similar to what that one man is doing to the kick in the second picture.

the pictures definately look like wing chun.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by TjD
is there much use of lower stances in the Cho family WCK?

i know in the ip man lineage there used to be a low stance with a strike in one of the forms (i think chum kiu). quite similar to what that one man is doing to the kick in the second picture.

the pictures definately look like wing chun.



Certainly, the lower stances, the side stance.... are used on different occation, since Cho family has lots of sets for different aplications... since this low stance is needed otherwise it is incomplete...

Just Curious, when do you see Ip Man lineage used the Low Stance?

[TjD]

it was just something my sifu said used to be part of the system. i've never seen it used within a form - i've only seen it demonstrated and explained.

basically the usage is the same as a normal wing chun shift, except the rear leg's knee drops to the ground (or on the opponent). the same arm as the knee punches - either forward to the groin (in one application) or downward (in other applications, if the opponent is on the ground).

those are just some simple applications. as with anything in wing chun, once the mechanics are mastered the applications become innumerable.

[Phenix]

TJD
Thanks for sharing. Great information!

[byond1]

hendrik!!! incredible. thanks for sharing. if everyone contributed in the same manor we may actually be able to make some progress in understanding the "original training purpose"of slt.
many wck families use the low stance......gwai mah is an extension taught in the sup yee san sik of sum num.
yip man was known for being very skilled at this very important motion(using it against an attaker in public), and taught it as a san sik. im sure koolo has a version of this as well (i dont know this to be fact..but....L.J passed on a very complete wck in koolo, imo, and from my limited exposure).
i am intrigued by the cho family use of the pin sin/side stance......it looks more like how koolo uses the side body theory....vs. how y.m family uses it (faceing shadow).
b

[Phenix]

Thanks Byond1,
certainly sharing honestly is the key. WCK is WCK. nothing more or less original... nothing is oldest. IMHO.


As for Wong Kiew-Kit or Y Wu who wrote his chapter in Complete WC. and mention my sigung's name. I would say they have thier own right to have thier own style. A free world.

[reneritchie]

Hendrik,

Wow, imagine that, it actually looks like WCK! LOL!

[TjD]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Hendrik,

Wow, imagine that, it actually looks like WCK! LOL!

unfortunately a lot of "WCK" out there doesnt :(

[reneritchie]

TjD,

Very true. Hopefully now that many branches in China have been better exposed here in the West we can look at them, see how close they still are at the core, and realize what WCK traditionally looked like, and then that won't be a factor any more. (People will have to show how different approaches are practical, not just "secret older" versions - go meritocracy!)