GeneChing: About Gan Feng Chi

[NorthernShaolin]

Gene Ching,

You mention in another thread your article on Shaolin and BSL was to stimulate discussion on BSL linkage. So here it is.

There are what I call two theories of NSL linkage:
Theory 1: this one was original published in New Martial Hero in the 1970's by Ou Hu Shou who was a classmate of GM Yim Shan Wu. This one is very popular with GM Yim Shan Wu's generation and maybe even earlier generations before Yim's.

Monk Chih Yuan to Feng Shao Ch'en to Hsu Wen San to Yim Po to Yim Chi Wen to Kuo Yu Chang.

Theory 2: This one is popular by the next generation after GM Yim Shan Wu, namely Sifu Chan Kwok Wai who is the lower classmate of Sifu Wong Jack Man.

Monk Chao Yuan Ho Shang to Kan Feng Chih to Wan Pang Ts'ai to Yim Te Kung to Yim Chi Wen to Kuo Yu Chang.

For many years I believed theory 1 was correct until I hear Wong Sifu mention Kan Feng Chi as the first NSL at the start of the Ching Dynasty. By the way he did not say he was the first one to practice NSL nor the inventor.

With the exception of word of mouth, I have not read any materials (in Chinese) that states Kan Feng Chi is directly linked to NSL. Materials on Kan Feng Chi are always about his numerous heroic feats such as the few that you wrote in your article and about his famous book, the Summation of Flower Fist.

Can you direct me to some written material that links KFC directly to NSL? Also do you know where I can get a copy of KFC's book, Summation of Flower Fist? This book would answer some questions on how his Flower Fist and NSL are related. I know that Flower fist is one of the five mother styles that NSL has strong roots connected. But this book would clarify and re-inforce certain common concepts and principles.

I also know that my ex-classmate, who is your sifu, Wing Lam was very close to GM Yim before he passed away and your sifu may have that additional information about KFC linkage to NSL.

Would you mind sharing his thoughts?

:) :cool:

[r.(shaolin)]

Pardon me for for all the questions and for jumping in, but I too am interested the Shaolin's Hua Quan.
How many forms in Hua Quan does Kuo Yu Chang's lineage do? Do they do Hua Quan Shuang Yan?
I would be intereted in Kuo Yu Chang's history
of Hua Quan.ˇ

[GeneChing]

I have several lineages feeding into Grandmaster Gu, including Sun Lu Tang (taiji), Yin Kai Yun (BSL), Lee Kim Lam (taiji), Ye Gan Sing (cha) Chiu Yam Cho (liuhe), Du Sam Ng (ziren). Do you have the characters for names you mention? Can you email or fax them to me? I would love to see that NMH article.

Gan is mentioned as a Shaolin practitioner (I'll have to dig up some references for you) in the Wuxia, not necessarily as the originator, but like Hung Hay Kwun, the 1st laymen to bring it out of the temple, and thereby a founder of sorts. My own Sifu is skeptical of Gan's connection, but he really doesn't care to much about lineage since it is un-provable either way. Personally, I am skeptical too, but it makes a great story. What is bothersome is that Gan seems more closely tied to the legendary southern temple, which refutes the whole northern thing. Perhaps that was just for Gu? It's an interesting notion, but it certainly doesn't pan out given the nature of BSL.

And I've been looking for Gan's book myself...

And I give up, who are you? I'm surprised to hear that your an ex-classmate of my Sifu, and even moreso that you thought he and Yim were close in the end. Feel free to contact me privately - perhaps we can get together sometime if your in SF...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[NorthernShaolin]

Gene,

I'm aware of the other lineages that feed into GGM KYC. You forgot to state that Lee Kim Lam (Li Ching Lin) taught Wu Tang Swords and Sun Lu Tang taught Hsing-I to GM Kuo. Unoffically, Sun also taught a select few (of which KYC was one of them) his Pa Kua while staying at Li Ching Lin's school where both Wan Li Sheng and Kuo Yu Chang were learning Wu Tang Swords from Li.

However, I understand that Lui Ho came from Wan Li Sheng who traded sets with Kuo since they were very close friends. Also GM Yim originally learn Lui Ho from GM Wan before learning NSL (in his 40's) from GM Kuo.

Theory 2 is the same lineage that is in your article for Inside Kungfu in April 1997.

For Theory 1: I must correct myself...the article in NMH was by Hu Shao Pao who was originally a student of GM Yim Shan Wu but later seek out GGM Kuo Yu Chang and learned from him. Later Hu became the President of Honk Kong Chinese Martial Arts Association Limited (HKCMAAL). I could not find the article in NMH, mainly because I boxed all my NHM mag away. However the same article by Hu was published in the HKCMAAL maz. in 1971. I will copy it and notify you by E-mail when I'm able to fax it to you. Very interesting article.
We'll talk more about getting together. Yes I'm in the Bay area and have a small school with three of my classmates.

As to who am I? As you can see in my profile I'm of the older MA generation and one of very few who is willing to go 'on line' to encourage and promote CMA. If you have been in MA for a long, long time, and saw a lot of demos and tournments of the forgotten years, you may reconize me. Many of the old timers in CMA do.

R:

Kuo Yu Chang did not know nor teach Hua style (Flower Fist). In the early Ching Dynasty, the most famous master was Kan Feng Chih. He taught this style in Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces from 1662 to 1735 A.D. and is identified as the first generation of Northern Shao lin in the Ching Dynasty.

Another most well known master of the style was Hu Wei Chuan, who studied Hua Style for fifteen (15) years in the Shao lin Monastery. He did not graduate from the Shao lin Monastery because he failed the rigid testing by the monks. He originally entered the Shao lin Monastery to learn enough martial arts to seek revenge against those who wronged him and escaped from the monastery through it's sewer when the Ching soldiers attacked the Shao lin Monastery. Later, the Shao lin Monastery was destroyed and all the monks who knew the Hua Style were killed during the battle with the Ching soldiers. As a result, Hu Wei Chuan was one of the few who had the knowledge of the Hua Style. Realizing his duty, he helped spread the style. :) :cool:

[GeneChing]

Great points. I would love to swap notes with you, whoever you are. Anyone who can remember my pubs from '97 is ok by me (I can't even remember anymore...)
So I guess I wait for you to contact me. Older generation doesn't tell me much, and I only focused in on the kungfu circuit from the mid 80's, retired from competition after way too many 2nd places in '95. I was pretty spread out, competing in kungfu, fencing and kendo, so forgive me if older generation doesn't really provide me with much to go on. Anyway, you know where to find me... If you drop by the office I'd be happy to give you the tour (but call first to make sure I'm available.)

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[Shaolindynasty]

Sorry I don't really have anything to add to this but I was wondering if you guys know of any good books(fiction or non fiction) on Ku Yu Chueng, Wang Zi Ping or any other historical northern stylists.

Witness the Dynasty!!!
New Site! www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[GeneChing]

There's nothing I know of in English on KYC except for the assorted articles we have been discussing.
As for WZP, he graced the cover of our July '98 issue, but unfortunately that back issue is sold out. If memory serves there is a little chapter on him in Wushu for Chinese Moslems. But to be honest, it's not my area of research so maybe someone like GLW can chime in here with some more.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[r.(shaolin)]

My tradition also links Hua Quan to Hu Wei Chi, who was a student at Shaolin Temple, and a revenge concerning the death of his father. The event included a number of serious complications and represented an embarrassment to Shaolin Temple.e

[r.(shaolin)]

Shaolindynasty
There is a small book published by Tuttle
titled Northern Shaolin Kung-fu
by Lai Hung that has short section on
Ku Ju-chang and the origins of his Shaolin.ê

[Shaolindynasty]

I have both that issue of kungfu qigong and the book by Lai Hung. I guess I'll have to just keep lokking. Thanks anyway

Witness the Dynasty!!!
New Site! www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[shaolin_knight]

R., if you are from the lineage I think you're from, you might want to check out the new issue of Inside Kung Fu magazine. It has an article about Hua Chuan, and pictures of your grandmaster. (if you are from that lineage, sorry if I assume wrong). Also, to everybody else, thanks for all these posts. I have a hard time finding info on BSL, on the web or anywhere else.

[r.(shaolin)]

Well I don't read Inside Kungfu - I'll have to
see if I can get a copy. But I don't think I'll find my sigong in it. He died tragically in a Shanghai prison in 1932 at the hands of the Japanese military. Nor will I find my teacher of the past 25 years.
there. Although 98 he still practice traditional medicine and teachs senior students he doesn’t as rule do interviews. If he did I would know about it.
R.ˇ

[NorthernShaolin]

GeneChing,

Did you receive my E-mail? How do I get the article about KYC to you?

[GeneChing]

got it.
thanks!

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)