Bodhidharma [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

The Willow Sword

07-20-2001, 08:38 PM

DA MO (whose last name was Sardili) and who was also known as Bodhidarma, was once a prince of a small tribe in Southern India. He was of the Mahayana school of Buddhism, and was considered by many to be a Bodhisattva,or an enlightened being who renounced nirvana in order to Save others. From the fragments of historical records it is believed he was born about 483ad. IT is believed that DaMo was the second Indian Priest to be invited to China. DA MO was invited to china by emperor LIang in 527Ad. The emporer decided that he did not like DA Mo's teachings and threw him out and Da mo retreated to the Shaolin Temple. He saw that the Monks there were weak and sickly and could not stay awake during the meditation session he held. DA Mo retreated to a cave up the mpountain side from the Temple and stayed thier for nine years and during that time he created the yi gin ching muscle/tendon changing excersises.

this excerpt was edited by me and comes from the book that Dr Yang Jwing Ming wrote on the subject. NOW here is my take on this:

From All accounts Da Mo was NOT a myth, he was a real person who actually exisited. argueing this point is just like argueing that jesus was a myth and we have the bible and old hebrewic texts to prove otherwise. NOW: here is where i get confused: 495ad is when the shaolin temple was built,,DA Mo was born around 483a.d.,, he came to the temple in 527ad. that makes him 44 yrs old when he came to shaolin temple. That means that the shaolin temple was only open for 32 yrs from the time it was built to the time DA Mo came there. Plus the records indicate thatthe monks were weak and sickly and could not meditate properly. THEN HOW ON EARTH WAS THERE MARTIAL ARTS BEING STUDIED THERE AT THIS BEGINNING? given these dates, i conclude that the Shaolin Temple was a Buddhist order studying Buddhism and not fighting..when Da mo came and taught the excercises and the fist and palm sets, THAT IS WHEN THE MARTIAL WAYS STARTED HAPPENING AT THE TEMPLE. remember that DA mo was unorthodox in his teachings and he fought when he had to.
to say that there was martial arts already at the temple at the time of his arrival is BS. There was not. This supports my theory that the temple became a military training center for the emperors army. we have heard the tales of the temple being destroyed several times in its history due to tyranny and new regimes,,this also supports the theory that the temple was a military training center for the emperors. as for the buddhism taught there. i believe that at first it was buddhism but them the TAoist influence took over and the temple became Taosit like all the rest with some buddhist influence. Remember that Buddhism renounces violence of any form, there is no foot notes below those doctrines that say oh yeah you can fight if this happens. All the other Budhhist temples in the world have NO FIGHTING OR MARTIAL PROGRAM AT ALL IN THEM. I believe that DA Mo is the Father of shaolin kungfu. all things afterwards developed a and were subsequently ABSORBED AND ADOPTED INTO THE FIGHTING CURRICULUM at Shaolin.
so here it is lets discuss this: Hope GENE gets in on this thread.
Many respects,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

Crimson Phoenix

07-20-2001, 09:53 PM

Indeed, Dr Yang has always pointed that in his opinion, Damo never brought any gong fu to Shaolin (he also doubt Damo ever had true martial skills)...he "just" brought the two well known classics to the monks which seemed to have a poor health since they focused on training the mind while leaving physical training aside...
An increasing number of reknowned practicionners of or historians (Adam Hsu, Kang Ge Wu, and many more) now believe that Shaolin absorbed techniques from all over the place (mainly laymen seeking temporary shelter) and never had a style of their own (except cudgel play and staff techniques, some say)...
Very interesting topic indeed...

Daelomin

07-20-2001, 11:42 PM

Of course there could have been martial arts in shaolin before Tamo, its just that the majority of monks did not practice it and thus were in bad shape. I think it is very likely that there were people who knew martial arts in the tempel before Tamo came there, but it just wasnÂ´t that popular (because of shaolin being a buddhist order). I think that many former soldiers was present at shaolin at this time and had some skills in combat. I belive that Tamo brought qigong to shaolin and that way raised the martial arts there to another level, the internal level. Eventually martial arts became more popular within the monks and the former soldiers started to teach the other monks and the martial art skills from the battlefield mixed with Tamos qigong and became shaolin kung fu. Tamo was a man of peace, a buddhist, he didnÂ´t know martial arts. I think that martial arts came to the temple with former soldiers, not with a holy man.

r.(shaolin)

07-21-2001, 01:42 AM

First of all Hsu and Kang Ge Wu are not coming from the same place. Hsu has no academic credentials.
He's been grinding that same ax for years â€“ that Shaolin martial art, as as such, did not exist. This is coming from someone who does not practice S haolin martial arts : - ) Hsu's basic point has been that Shaolin martial arts were from " mainly laymen seeking temporary shelter." It is now as it was then, an uniformed opinion and one with which I strongly disagree with.
Professor Kang Gewu on the oth er hand has academic credentials. Everything I've read he's written, is very supportive of the existence of Shaolin martial arts methods and their existence. The Shaolin Monastery is unique in that it had Imperial right to train in military methods. Although most weapons methods were brought in from outside these were not accepted in an arbitrary or indiscriminate way but there were evaluated for effectiveness, were redesign to comply to Shaolin martial arts fundamentals and generally were sy nthesized. To say that because the majority of martial methods at Shaolin were not the original creations of Shaolin monks it therefore did not have its own martial 'style'; is nonsensical.
amm.

BAI HE

07-21-2001, 04:12 AM

The Buddhists were none violent. When face with agression they merely " Refused the intent of violence" upon their being being.

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

reemul

07-21-2001, 08:06 AM

The Mohist were there before dharma, and they were a military class. So the MA were there before dharma. The Taoist did not practice it at the time. They didn't have much need to defend themselves because the Mohist did it for them.

Dharma was born of the Warrior class however he did not teach MA to the inhabitants at Shaolin, and throught Shaolin history the Shaolin have never attributed MA training to Dharma. There are some Shaolin systems that attribute MA to the Mohist presence.

r.(shaolin)

07-21-2001, 07:19 PM

eemul

Could you explain yourself a bit. I'm not quite following your point.
You say "They didn't have much need to defend themselves because the Mohist did it for them"
Are we to assume that it is your understanding that monks of Shaolin Monastery didn't practiced martial arts? Tang, Sung, Yuan, Ming and Ching Dynasty historical documents apparently prove otherwise. This is not to say that a Mohist martial tradition did not exist in the region and that is
it may well have had a connection to Shaolin Monastery at one point in its rather long and
eventful history.

r.
v

reemul

07-22-2001, 04:28 AM

I was referring to a time frame that predates Dharma and the Shaolin temple. Before it was Shaolin temple it was a Taoist monastary and the Taoist did not practice MA. The Mohist did. Both the Taoist and Mohist became part of the entity known as Shaolin and it is more plausible that the mohist sparked the institutionalization of the MA at Shaolin.

Scott R. Brown

07-22-2001, 06:19 AM

Gentlemen,

I find your information facinating. Would you please list your sources, so that I may research further.

Thank you,

Scott

northstar

07-22-2001, 09:04 AM

Yes, please! Many people here claim evidence, but exactly where is this evidence? Kwoon homepage or 1980s kung fu books don't count as historical sources of high value...

reemul

07-22-2001, 12:54 PM

The reason we continue debating this is because there are no facts or evidence. Shaolin tradition since the begining has been passed on orally. Books on the subject are merely someone else's theory or regurgitation of Legends. The common practice these days are to follow what some professor of a university says, as long as it supports your biased view. The peoples who accounts are cast aside tend to be the ones who have a long family history directly tied to the monastary. Everyone else are just outsiders taking guesses and fabricating whatever supports their possitions. My source is someone who's father and grandfather were there up until 1948, but this doesn't prove anything just another opinion lumped in with the rest. Hopefully you guys can gain some perspective from this and realize that the subject is not so cut and dry and what it comes down to is who sounds plausible.

r.(shaolin)

07-22-2001, 10:55 PM

When Shaolin Monastery was built during the Northern Wei it was a very important period of growth for Buddhism. That's when the cave temples at Dung huang, Yugang and Longmen were begun. The Longmen grottoes were a monumental project, and it alon g with Shaolin Monastery which was started one year later in the same region, are regard as the two major accomplishments of Emperor Xiawen.

It is possible that the Mohist had controlled Shaolin Monastery during the early Northern Zhou(Sui) Dynasty wh en the Emperor Wudi ordered the both Buddhism and Taoism banned and monks of both were ordered to return to their native villages . But this all happen about 30 odd years after Tamo's time. When Shaolin Monastery reopen it was at first renamed Sh ihu Ssu and then the name revered to the original - Shaolin Ssu. When it reopened it a no time was a Taoist, well at least nothing I've read has suggested it

However is was not uncommon for Abbots being made heads of monasteries which previously belong ed to other sects. Yes there were struggles with both Confucianists and Taoist such as the one that took place in the first part of the 15th century when Taoists took over 482 Buddhist monasteries but which were later returned to the Buddhists. It should be noted that when a monastery was taken over its name would change. If Shaolin become a Taoist monastery there would be records of a Taoist name for it.Ë‡

[

[This message was edited by R. on 07-23-01 at 02:22 PM.]

r.(shaolin)

07-23-2001, 01:53 AM

Scott

Putting to gether a whole biloography is a tall order : - )
. . .but . . . here is a list of writers I've found to be very useful.
.. . . you do the research and the work : - )

Wang Tsu-yuan (1881)
Prof. Chen Chan-Yuen
Prof. Sang H. Kim
Father Jean-Joseph-Marie Amiot, Peking (1718-1793)
Prof. W.C. Hu
Prof. A.W. Barber
Prof. F.W. Mote
Prof.E.S.Rawski
Prof. Pierre Huard
Prof. Kang Gewu
Prof. R.D. Sawyer
J. Prip Moller
there a others

All these folks have written good stuff
and can be found and a good university library

a

GeneChing

07-23-2001, 02:11 AM

According to legend, Shaolin was erected for another Buddhist monk Batuo in 495 CE. I've never heard that it was a Taoist monastery beofre, although there is another monastery on Songshan that is Taoist. Both of Batuo's disciples were supposed to be skilled in kungfu.

Now I'm going back to the original thread. It's just too complicated for me to keep track of so many threads, sorry....

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

ffab@cyberkwoon.

07-23-2001, 02:33 AM

R. Interesting stuff, however listing authors like you did is not a very helpful. Maybe a hint to where you found "reports" of those "facts" in the works of the listed authors would help.
For instance I am quite familiar with the work of Amiot [I am French and studied in the French Institute for Oriental Cultures], I don't think he ever mentioned Shaolin. He talked about some callisthenic [sp??] exercises called "Kong Fou" but that's about all ...
I think you are refering to his work on the political "religious" history rather than fact directly related to the topic ;-)

I am sure that if you could "document" your statements that would be a "breakthru" for the historical understanding of Shaolin.

BTW TWS and Reemul stated some very "strong" "facts", I would love to know where they dug that from ;-) [and if you list YJM as a source, do you know what was HIS source, as it is mainly compilation/translation from Chinese books]

As Gene stated, the "legend" [Chinese history is something very blurry as each dynasty conveyed an "autodafe" and rewrote the books in order to give it the "best light"] says that Batuo's 2 disciples were "skilled" in martial arts. Actually it says that they were able of "feats" that nowadays would not be deemed martial but proved a serious training. It doesn't say that they taught or pursue such a training once established in Shaolin.

My personal idea is that Shaolin "martial arts" are much more recent, probably from the 13-14th century, with a "burst" in the 15-16th century, when MA became more "available / appealing" to civilians.
We could discuss that for a long time ;-)
Now I go back to my lair ;-)

--------------------------
CyberKwoon.com Forums (http://www.cyberkwoon.com/html/forum.php)
Martial Arts Databases

shaolin_knight

07-23-2001, 03:41 AM

Yeah I believe that martial arts were introduced to Shaolin much later, maybe a thousand years ago. Also I agree that it has outside influences in it's buddhist teachings.

reemul

07-23-2001, 05:03 AM

There seems to be confusion in diferentiation of whether MA was introduced or always there.

Just another opinion: It is the possition of the Guardians of the Temple Benevolent Society that the MA were indeed there before Shaolin, however it was through the monastary that it became institutionalized, became a process or system of learning.

Scott R. Brown

07-23-2001, 05:11 AM

R.

Thank you for the list.

Sincerely<

Scott

r.(shaolin)

07-23-2001, 06:27 AM

If one begins to look a Chinese martial arts from a narrow point of view one misses the point. The picture is, as I think you know, is a complex one. The 'show me some CNN; footage' or the 'smoking gun' approach is naive. Very little of anc ien t hist ory can be approached that way.

Father Amiot gives a very accurate depiction of Chi kung as practiced during the mid 1700's. It give us an opportunity to see 18th century nei gong. His drawing are about as close to CNN footage of ancient Chinese Chi go n g as your going get friend.
Shaolin martial arts contain both Nei gong and Wai gong. These religious and parareligious exercises were part of Buddhism not only in China but India and Tibet. Separating nei-gong from the martial in Shaolin martial ar ts misrepresents it. These records which are wonderfully illustrated, offer an opportunity to cross reference methods and postures of contemporary practices as well as other records.
Understanding the roll of Buddhist monasteries as well as h ow they fun ctioned, the nature of Buddhism and why warrior societies like the Jin, Jurchen, and Mongols embraced it and the political issues/border issues in the region were Shaolin Monastery was located gives one an insight as to why martial arts develo ped at that monastery.

One is just not going to find a lot of photos of monks practicing martial arts. : - )
How ever there is at least one rare photo of a travelling buddhist monk with a defense weapon from the 1920';s or early 30's as a w ell description a nd demonstration of how it was used given to a Belgian writer. From the interview is is apparent that it was not uncommon for travelling monks to be armed and skilled in discreet defensive weapons.
Kang Gewu mentions records that document General Yu Day ou observing Shaolin Monastery martial training. in 1561. He mentions as well that in 1775 Henan governor Xu Ji employed a Shaolin Monastery monk to instruct his miliary in spear methods his doing so was criticized by the Qing Emperor.

There is a re cor d on a stone stele dated approximately 620 A.D. written in the style of the Tang Emperor that narrates the event of monks capturing Wang Shi chung. One of the monks is even given the title of 'Great General Monk'. This real event took plac e before the 13 century.
The emperor also give the monastery the right to maintain and train an army of monks. It is a matter of record, which I am sure you are aware of.

I think that any one that takes the trouble to study t he history of China well get insights into
the nature of Chinese martial art and Shaolin that is not possible any other way.
As an example I know few people understand the meaning of 'Jia' that is often attached
martial forms and styles as in Yue Jia Quan.{

The Willow Sword

07-23-2001, 09:16 AM

We as americans first learned of the shaolin temple through television,,such as "kungfu and bruce lee as well.. then all this stuff starts coming in about the temple and the history of it.
now how are we justifying some of the things that we are saying about the temple? the history of this order has become SO POPULARISED by us americans i think that we will tend to believe anything about what is told to us by any asian out there. from the writings of DR. yang jwing-ming it seems that what is shared there about the temple is a general one,,nothing real specific. there are oral traditions in buddhism but there are a lot of writings from generations past about the way of life,,but with respect to Shaolin it seems that the history is sketchy at best..there seems to be this "missing link" that none of us can seem to figure out. I tend to look at the practicality fo the shaolin temple history rather than have these grandious views of superhuman monks flying around and all the other stuff associated with it.....remember our american tall tales? "paul bunyon and his big blue ox?" since china eclpises our population they have TONS of ledgends and stories. Shaolin seems to be the focal story now adays,,perpetuated by us and capitolized by them. martial arts existed in china long before the temple was built. but so has fighting systems been in existence all over the world. All of these fighting systems share something in common with one another. THEY WERE UTILIZED BY THE RULING CLASS. what part of NO VIOLENCE OR AGRESSION in buddhisms central message do any of you NOT understand? just likje the bible stating thou shalt not kill. no footnotes under that law of man,,,there are no footnotes under this law in buddhism either.
i just cannot believe that shaolin was a buddhist center of martial studies as well as buddhist studies. from what i can read from the history buddhism was not that popular during the shaolin temples first building. which brings me to the fighting aspect of any center where the art of hurting and killing is studied. The Traditional forms we see at the temple and at the surrounding schools there is modern wushu,,with no real fighting bases,,just gymanstics,and pretty dance routines and choreography. when you look at what a fighting system is ,,there are no flasy exterior movements at all,,its about power and striking hard and with intent. not fluttering around like a bird,or jumping around like a monkey. members of my school who go to china and visit the temple go to these schools and do demos of what we do. the instructers there in turn show us some of their "traditional" forms and they look like combat forms" not the fluttery stuff that they teach as per required by communist government. our school visited chen village as well,,both exchanged forms and both were so much alike and similar,,theirs being much cleaner looking than ours due to there hours of practice,,but still the similarities are there.
of couse my point is not to prove that my school is legit,,the point is to prove that a buddhist center of study does not have a fighting curriculum,,,all of the buddhist temples are like that,,i have seen in this country THAI and CHinese as well as VIETNAMESE buddhist temples and there is NO FIGHTING SYSTEM THERE AT ALL. So how can a Buddhist order that shaolin claims to be have this there and only there?. Shaolin being unique and the exception does not fly when you consider what the original purpose of the temple being built was about. the emperor wey built the temple for an indian priest named PAU JACO for the soul purpose of PREACHING AND WORSHIP. DURING THIS TIME BUDDHISM WAS VERY POPULAR. with thousands of monks studying ,,but in 30 short years it lost its popularity by the time DAMO got there the buddhist orders were dwindling in practitioners.

I still think that the Shaolin temple was a military training center for the emperors army.
it takes a very disciplined mind to be able to truley hurt anothet human being and to kill them as well in defense of your life or your emporers life. the religion incorporated into the temple which was probably most likely a mix of a lot of philosophies such as taoism confucionism and buddhism, helped to sane onself in combat and to justifiy the killing of another human being. i believe that over time the power and influence of the temple over the common people caused jealousy and threatened the emperors power and that is why the temples were destroyed so much and then rebuilt with the new regimes coming into power. we dont hear stories of the taoist monestaries or convents in china being destroyed as much as the shaolin temples were. see our school does not teach buddhist doctrines and for the longest time i wondered why we didnt,,then i realized that" well why the hell would they since what they are teaching is how to fight and kick the crap out of someone?" the philosophies surrounding martial arts seem to be more of a taoist thing(in china).
am i just way way off here guys and gals,,or am i on to something that we really have not considered about all this?
lets discuss this again ,,and please,,,,,lets be civil here and no more SD bashing. iam really trying to connect here with you people.
Many Respects, Willow SWord

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

reemul

07-23-2001, 12:54 PM

I agree Buddhist teaching does not condone agression, but Dharma didn't show up and BLAM everyone is buddhist. Chinese philisophy, the concept of Yin and yang, are not polars or linear as with western philosophy. The Chinese did not jump from one philosopy to the next it was generally a mixing of new and old. If you look at chan buddhism you can see thoughts of Confuscism, and Mohism as well as Toaism. Buddhism did not retain its original form when introduced to the inhabitants at Shaolin. Now as for your schools forms being martial then why is it a fellow classmate of mine goes up to the Shaolin do school here in town and beats up on their instructors. Now for all the effort you go into making it seem like Shaolin do trains for actual
combat it amazes me how a whole school, larger than ours in members, cant deliver against one person. Another thing that you have said, with regard to history would only serve to lend support to you schools claims of legitamacy. You are far from the source of Shaolin so quit ****ing in the wind.

The Willow Sword

07-23-2001, 09:00 PM

i cannot speak for the students and/or instructors at the SD school that get "beat up" on as you say by your fellow classmate. instead of challenging the assisatnt instructors why not challenge the master of the school? what a suprise your fellow classmate would get. anyway as for me being off ,,you have actually stated what i stated in my long post about the mix of philosophies at the temple. as for ****ing in the wind reemul. i cannot wait to meet you when i get to austin, why not bring your fellow classmate as well, when i get through with you i will take him on as well. so you are northern tiger stylist huh? tell ya what, ill use my tiger against yours.
how does that sound?,,,,,,ahh thanksgiving in november. you want this to be an all out brawl or a challenge match with gloves and judging? you name it and i will adhere to it. Zilker gardens sounds like a nice place to fight. or possibly zilker park by the theater and barton springs.
many respects,
willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

shaolin_knight

07-23-2001, 10:42 PM

Other buddhists have had fighting systems. Some emei kung fu comes from buddhist practices (they studied tibetian buddhism). And you don't understand chan, or you wouldn't say studying fighting systems is against it.

shaolintemple

09-13-2005, 12:55 AM

Bodhidharma(damo) was the 28th patriarch of Buddhism (28th direct descendant of the historical Buddha) and the first patriarch of Chinese Chan (Zen) Buddhism. He was an enlightened master who introduced Chan Buddhism to China and is known as the founding father of Shaolin Kung Fu.

Born a prince in the southern Indian kingdom of Pallava at around 440 A.D., Bodhidharma(damo) was to follow in his father??s footsteps as king. In the midst of his education and training, Bodhidharma(damo) encountered the Buddha??s teachings. He immediately saw the truth in the doctrine of Buddhism and decided to give up his esteemed position and gifted princely life to become a monk and study with the legendary Buddhist master Prajnatara who was the 27th patriarch of Buddhism. Bodhidharma(damo) rapidly progressed in his Buddhist studies and in time became an enlightened master. Master Prajnatara instructed his disciple to travel to China and spread the Mahayana teachings of Chan Buddhism to the Chinese.

Bodhidharma(damo) set off on his quest and after a brutal trek over Tibet's Himalayan Mountains, surviving both the extreme elements and treacherous bandits he finally arrived in China around 520 A.D. Upon the invitation of Emperor Liang Wu Ti, Bodhidharma(damo) went to Nanjing.

Emperor Wu Ti, a devout Buddhist himself, requested an audience with Bodhidharma(damo). The emperor was very fond of Buddhism and often wore Buddhist garments, ate vegetarian food and recited Buddhist prayers. Proud of his knowledge and contributions he had made towards the spreading of Buddhism, the emperor asked Bodhidharma(damo) ??Since I came to the throne, I have built many temples, published numerous scriptures and supported countless monks and nuns. How great is the merit in my deeds??? ??There is no merit in your deeds??, replied Bodhidharma(damo). The emperor was confused and angered by his remark. He had failed to understand Bodhidharma(damo)??s statement, which meant that one is not really practicing the dharma (Buddha??s teachings) if one does good deeds only for selfish reasons. In the emperor??s case his actions were done for the intention of gaining fame and praise. Bodhidharma(damo) was explaining that the self-centered desire and craving for merit and praise changed the nature of the emperor??s deeds.

After the conversation between the emperor and Bodhidharma(damo), which was mutually unsatisfactory, Bodhidharma(damo) left the palace, crossed the Yangtze River, and continued north until he arrived at the Shaolin Temple in Henan Province.

When Bodhidharma(damo) saw the monks at the Shaolin Temple, he noticed that they were spiritually strong but physically weak due to long-term meditation practice. Bodhidharma(damo) informed them that he would teach them to cultivate their minds and bodies by a two-part program of meditation and physical training.

Legend has it that Bodhidharma(damo) meditated in a cave nearby, facing the wall for 9 years in seclusion. Upon reemerging, Bodhidharma(damo) created an efficient exercise program for the Shaolin monks that strengthened the body, and enabled application in self-defense. He developed a system of 18 dynamic tension exercises. These movements are known as the Yi Jin Jing, or Changing Muscle/Tendon Classic. We know this system today as the 18 Lohan Qi Qong Movements - the basis of Shaolin Kung Fu. Through his teachings, the Shaolin Monks forged and developed over the centuries, what is today the most advanced and complete martial arts system the world has ever known.

The contributions Bodhidharma(damo) has made to the spreading of Buddhism in China and beyond are immeasurable. The Mahayana teaching of Chan Buddhism was quickly assimilated into Chinese culture and began to spread throughout the country. In the 12th century, Chan Buddhism spread to Japan and then Korea. Today Chan Buddhism is strong and flourishing in countries all over the world.

SimonM

09-13-2005, 06:09 AM

He was also one cool dude. Seriously. Bodidharma kicks ass. :D

Are you actually AT Shaolin Temple right now? I'm heading down that way on the October holiday.

Vajramusti

09-13-2005, 06:42 AM

More likely- he took the southern sea route. There was considerable shipping from
south India in those days. Likely--- Mahabalipuram- through the Malaysian straits to Cam Ranh Bay in Viet nam (which also devloped some mahayana/chan folks) on to Canton- before going north.

He did not develop different styles of kung fu( the Chinese already had martial activities)- but pointed to the progressive conquest of body- mind and spirit. Without control of the body- the mind gets distracted. Without conquest of the mind- the spirit gets dispersed. Controlling the breath in different ways at different stages
is also important in Buddhism including Chan.

Chan is the sinicization of dhyan(sanskrit), zan(pali) as Zen is japanification of
chan.

joy chaudhuri

David Jamieson

09-13-2005, 07:17 AM

Stuff of legends.

Ta Mo was originally rejected from the temple.
He then sat in the cave for however long, lgend says 9 years, I am inclined to surmise that is nine lunar years or nine months...anyway.

He was then allowed into the temple. He taught some exercises because the monks were not strong enough to do the arduous path of meditation for hours and hours on end.

It is not know how he got to china. It is not known where he came from. He could have been from Nepal, He could have been from persia, he could be an archetype serving as a model to the rest who come in the order that they should follow the 8 fold path in the fashion of Bodhidharma.

The Ta Mo story transforms and changes and gets little details changed every now and then.

I find it to be an interesting tale, but of little value when it comes to actually doing kungfu.

GeneChing

09-13-2005, 09:44 AM

The controversy about Bodhidharma's factual existence is only a problem if you're a scientific literalist and if that's the case, you really shouldn't be practicing kung fu. Such skepticism would be better off in another martial art. To me, it's as absurd as the evolution vs. creation and attempted resolution through intelligent design. The lessons of the Bible are in no way challenged by the theory of evolution unless your a literalist. I can see them both coexisting in a single philosophy provided you take each one within its own proper context. That being said, the point of the Bodhidharma legend is the metaphor - there's an implicit lesson within that tale - one that is absolutely critical to understanding the heart and soul of kung fu. One of the faults of CMA is that warrior's ethics have never been formally codified, unlike the samurai codes like the Hakegure of Japan. This means our morality - our wude - is mostly passed down through metaphoric legends. I think the morality of kung fu is the most important thing, more important than the training itself. The training is just a tool to achieve the moral requirements. Personally, I'm very skeptical of the Bodhidharma legend, but I'm a staunch believer in its importance in CMA. Nothing could be more valuable.

Royal Dragon

09-13-2005, 06:02 PM

I actually believe he existed, and the over all story is probably true. I don't belive he sat in solid meditation for 9 years. My guess is he was living in the cave as his residence. I also don't believe the super natural stories of him such as the cutting of his eyelids and all. And if that IS true, then he was more of and old crazy than anything.

mantis108

09-13-2005, 07:38 PM

It is unclear which type of Buddhism existed at the Shaolin temple prior to Bodhidharma's arrival. It could have been Pureland sect for all we know. Pureland sect IMHO was the root of white lotus society (latter became White Lotus cult). So for Pureland sect to switch over to a brand new branch of Buddhism (Dhyana) it will need time. It would make sense for him to stay near by the temple for 9 years before he was accepted into the temple.

Does it has to be a cave? I don't think so. I think it might be a Shaolin temple story as a cover up effort for first rejecting Chan Buddhism and later change to embrace it. Oh, Look we accept this Holy monk because he has been meditating in the cave for nine years. It's a face saving thing IMHO. What if they were to say "yeah, his determination to show us this new and improved Buddhism path is great and we couldn't resist his presistance for nine years (we were pretty dumb you know)." Which sounds better? The acceptance of the Holy monk of course.

I believe it is possible that Bodhidharma built a dug out pit with a hut cover (18 x 9) according to the Kalaripayattu's tradition and practice Acruvedic medicines (the original bone cleansing classics). The supposed training procedure of Shaolin Tongzi Gong (virgin boy condition) is so uncanningly similar to that of Kalaripayattu.
It is very hard to imagine they are not of the same source.

So far no one is interested in finding out whether a hut as such ever existed near Shaolin because there is a legendary cave which may be viewed as evidence not proof. But still... Shaolin 1 fact 0.

Mantis108

DRleungjan

09-13-2005, 08:38 PM

Hi all,

As my way of thingking, I believe that every legend has a shred of truth to them. Do the specifics matter? No that much if you come to think of it. Many legends are born to give credence to something that one can't explain as far as origins are concerned. One little example of this, to borrow from another civilization, could be the birth of Rome. Did Romulus and Remus exist? or did Romulus kill Remus to become the first king of Rome? Who knows...and we'll probably never solve the clue to that one. The fact is that something extraordinary happened to a small village on the Tiber in the mid 700's BC to give birth to what was to become one of the great civilizations in recorded human history.

So I think it is with Damo and the CMA legends in general. They give us a sense of origin or starting point. In the years that are attributed to Damo and the Bak Siu Lam phenomenom something extrordinary must have happened in the realm of CMA to give it such importance. Gene made a nice point in stating to the fact that within the legends there are lessons to be learned. I would like to add that these legends also take us to a much simpler time when people lived by simple yet profound rules of wisdom which guided their every action. Having said thus, I am very proud to call myself a gung fu enthusiast and also a recent practitioner. Just some thoughts from yours truly. :)

GeneChing

09-14-2005, 09:54 AM

I concur with your viewpoint, DRleungjan. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day. ;)

There is actually very little record of Bodhidharma beyond some passing references in the literature. There are some sutras attributed to Bodhidharma, two translations in English in fact (Red Pine's The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma and Jeffrey L. Broughton's The Bodhidharma Anthology: The Earliest Records of Zen). However the validity of these sutras as actually being from Bodhidharma is questionable. Some feel that it is reconstructed history, which was a favorite pastime for ancient Chinese writers. Clearly, Zen/Chan really begins at the Sixth Patriarch Huineng and many of the Bodhidharma skeptics believe that his position was established simply to tie Huineng back to Buddha. Nevertheless, I actually spent a night up at Bodhidharma's cave, reading Red Pine's translation and practicing, back in '95. That was a very spiritual night for me, one that I will carry for the rest of my life, despite any such revelations about historic inaccuracies.

Where the Bodhidharma legend gets rather interesting is at Shaolin itself. Historically, he isn't venerated there as the founder of Shaolin martial arts until the 17th century (and that's from a Taoist source, no less). Prior to the Bodhidharma, Shaolin martial arts were attributed to Vajrapani, a Buddhist guardian.

IN '97, I went to India to seek out the Kalaripayattu/Vajramukti/Bodhidharma connection. It wasn't fruitful and I'm very skeptical of these claims.

shaolintemple

09-14-2005, 07:05 PM

He was also one cool dude. Seriously. Bodidharma kicks ass. :D

Are you actually AT Shaolin Temple right now? I'm heading down that way on the October holiday.
I am not at Shaolin Temple, :p
My QQ is 7837489,you can contact me

SimonM

09-15-2005, 03:25 AM

I'm sorry but I don't use QQ. Do you use MSN or ICQ at all?

shaolintemple

09-15-2005, 06:25 PM

My MSN:chinashaolintemple@hotmail.com

SimonM

09-15-2005, 08:20 PM

I've added you to my contact list. :D

Vajramusti

09-15-2005, 10:29 PM

Legends and myths are important teaching devices. I approach the Boddhidharma
complex in a different way. In China there were different kinds of Buddhism before
500 AD. But Boddhidharma's epistemology is starkly different- direct experience and mind to mind transmission. Its there in original Indian Buddhism- Kasyapa, the flower and the Buddha's smile. It is there in the rediscovery by Hui neng- direct observation.
That particular tradition is distinctive- mimimal reliance on sutras. Those are the footprints of the Bodhidharma.
That development from Kasyapa, nagarjuna in India , the first handed down sermon in Red Pine- the outline of practice- of Bodhidharma,and Hui neng in China, later Dogen in Japan - the epistemo;ogy is exactly the same. In Bodhidharma's time- Buddhism was strong in South India including mahayana in the dhyana tradition- Hindu revivavilism(including Shankara's non dualism) and common Brahminic fanaticism wiped out Budhism in the south and Hindu temples were built where Buddhist temples stood.

There were different indians carrying different forms of Buddhism to China- one of them- spread the pure dhana/zana/ chan version- call him by whatever name you want.

I doubt Bodhidharma's association with martial arts. China had martial arts before
Bodhidharma. But it makes sense to introduce exercises and breathing discipline
before dhyana.

The kalaripayattu connection is far fetched. The hero of kalripayattu was Parasurama who with his axe was also known asa killer of ksattriyas.
The uniqueness of the dhyan/chan doctrine in both India and China and the transmission compared to other kinds of Buddhism required unique kinds of teachers- by whatever name they can be known.

mantis108

09-16-2005, 10:59 AM

Chan Buddhism in China became of age owes a lot to Hui Neng. This clear and distinct Chinese flavored Buddhism is proven in his most famous and well known poem. He also was said to have great comprehension of the Vajra Pranja Paramita (diamond) sutra which was also given to him by his teacher as a proof of him being the 6th patriacrh. The sutra is IMHO loosely base on the classic Hindu tale of "churning the milk ocean at the beginning of time". Bodhidharma was also accredited to have brought the sutra with him.

The importance of this is that Bodhiharma might have been amongst those Brahim elites that converted or rather being deemed as "defected" to Buddhism and starting to reinterpreting some of the traditional Hindu tale/teaching resulting in new Buddhist sutras such as the Vajra Pranja Paramita. So his travelling could really have been more like an excile from his homeland.

Parasurama and Buddha are both considered descends of Vishnu the Preserver who is also mentioned in the VPP sutra if I am not mistaken. BTW, Buddha in his conversation with his disciple in the sutra made it clear that he rather be not viewed as Vishnu's descend. So in essence, there is not real conflict from the newly converted Buddhist (ie Bodhidharma) point of view to keep certain Hindu traditions and teachings. Besides that were supposedly 108 schools of Kalaripayattu and not all of them would be hostile to Buddhist IMHO. I have the impression that the Brahims similar to the Jewish Rabais were extremely uncomfortable with the idea of a Priest King who might eventually upset the balance of power and their status would be totally in jeopardy but as always there are those who sympathize with the "enemy". This could be why we have the Bodhidharma episode.

Anyway, the agricultural economic base community structure in southern India is remarkably similar to that of southern China. There are striking resemblance between a Kalari and a Kwoon (ie alters, MA training, medicine, etc) Is this just pure coincidences? I think there are more to the story.

Just some thoughts.

Mantis108

Vajramusti

09-16-2005, 07:58 PM

I think that you are going pretty far afield in your speculation.

SimonM

09-16-2005, 10:29 PM

The importance of this is that Bodhiharma might have been amongst those Brahim elites that converted or rather being deemed as "defected" to Buddhism and starting to reinterpreting some of the traditional Hindu tale/teaching resulting in new Buddhist sutras such as the Vajra Pranja Paramita. So his travelling could really have been more like an excile from his homeland.

Parasurama and Buddha are both considered descends of Vishnu the Preserver who is also mentioned in the VPP sutra if I am not mistaken. BTW, Buddha in his conversation with his disciple in the sutra made it clear that he rather be not viewed as Vishnu's descend. So in essence, there is not real conflict from the newly converted Buddhist (ie Bodhidharma) point of view to keep certain Hindu traditions and teachings.

Though this much is essentially correct it does not follow that Kalariapayattu was one such tradition. Thus this is in the realm of idle speculation. Especially since martial arts did already exist in China at the time of Bodidharma. There is no need for a Kalariapayattu connection.

mantis108

09-17-2005, 01:28 PM

Be that as it may, a health dose of speculation may bring about new insights. Fortune favors the bold, my friends. :)

my point is that we can sit there and look at the availabe evidence (not proof) that he was a mere travelling monk who was rejected by the Imperical court at the time and eventually arrived at Shaolin neighborhood and taught his knowledge. We can either except or ignore the rest of the tale that he taught some form of exercises to the monk for proper Dhyana practice. But then I find that kind of conclusion oppotunistic and selective. Otherwise, we can simply conclude that he had nothing to do with martial arts. I think this idea suits the pacificist Buddhist scholars more so than anything else. What good is that kind of conclusion to the study of martial arts? If that's your believe, then by all means stick to it. I don't think that helps in solving anything personally.

I am not denying that martial arts and the methodology that help transmit them exsited in China long before Bodhidharma's time. We can call that Chinese martial arts or Wushu in general. But an unique and distinct methodology that is derived from Hindu tradition (ie Kalaripattyu) is the source of what I would consider as Kung Fu. Having said that this is to acknowledge Chan Buddhism being one of the most influential systems of thoughts in Chinese martial arts. Alternately, we can look at Kung Fu being a product of cult movements (ie White Lotus) using Shaolin name as a cover or symbolic figure head. If so we can understand the role of the myth of Bodhidharma plays in that case as well. Now we all know that the cult thing really wouldn't sit well with most everyone. So ... Still can we ignore the evidences of that? Again, I think not. Personally, something that isn't recorded in offical history books or taught in public schools doesn't essentically make it invalid or irrelevant. The irony is that Kung Fu is just such a thing.

Mantis108

Vajramusti

09-17-2005, 03:22 PM

Lots of martial arts in the roots of Hindu traditions. Gautama himself being froma royal a family had it as part of his training as a kid. The Boddhidharma's Pallava roots meant that royal family members had martial arts teachers.

Lots of Hindu things that were "universal" in character passed on into Buddhism-
a more universal way than Hinduism. Buddhism is just Buddhism- epistemologically its
not limited to any one nation.... though localism is there in the cultural accretions.
Aspects of yoga, aspects of breathing disciplines, astronomy, aspects of concepts of the body, astronomy(108) have parallels in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Hinduism and Buddhism both have conceptions of "self defense" ... but there is a key difference- the concepts of the self are radically different. No first strike in the Buddha way IMO. But CMA as a way to illumination is nota contradiction IMO. The Buddhists in Ladakh still have lessons in archery.

There are parallels in Indian and Chinese martial arts- both have had concepts of prana and chi flow- hitting points- dim mak points.marmas, body structure-dan tien/manipuram chakra, animal symbolisms. HOWEVER, there are so many quite different engines in the rich variety of Chinese martial arts- on how pwer is generated eyc- that any direct connecto kalaripayattu seems faint - from where I sit. (There were other martial arts besides kalaripayattu)

Joy Chaudhuri

WanderingMonk

09-26-2005, 09:26 PM

It would make sense for him to stay near by the temple for 9 years before he was accepted into the temple.

Does it has to be a cave? I don't think so. I think it might be a Shaolin temple story as a cover up effort for first rejecting Chan Buddhism and later change to embrace it. Oh, Look we accept this Holy monk because he has been meditating in the cave for nine years. It's a face saving thing IMHO. What if they were to say "yeah, his determination to show us this new and improved Buddhism path is great and we couldn't resist his presistance for nine years (we were pretty dumb you know)." Which sounds better? The acceptance of the Holy monk of course.

I believe it is possible that Bodhidharma built a dug out pit with a hut cover (18 x 9) according to the Kalaripayattu's tradition and practice Acruvedic medicines (the original bone cleansing classics). The supposed training procedure of Shaolin Tongzi Gong (virgin boy condition) is so uncanningly similar to that of Kalaripayattu.
It is very hard to imagine they are not of the same source.

So far no one is interested in finding out whether a hut as such ever existed near Shaolin because there is a legendary cave which may be viewed as evidence not proof. But still... Shaolin 1 fact 0.

Mantis108
Hi Mantis108,

I am doing certain research and thought about your post, so I thought I'll stir the pot a bit.

The theory is interesting except you never visited the cave. here's the problem, the cave might have good fengshui and without visiting it or at least inspecting the local geographic feature near the cave, you can't say either way. but, if it had good fengshui, there's several good reasons to stay in the cave for several years.

http://www.dzogchenlineage.org/caves.html

Many tantra masters chose to retreat and practice in cave during important time of their training. Beside the benefit of seclusion, there is certain "extra" benefits.

The cave used by Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava is often used by Tibetan Masters even today. Some claims to have achieve an "extra" something.

This is similar to the classical daoist practice of using "di ling" to speed up their accomplishment. Zhang tian shi did this as well. either, everybody like to tell the same type legend or may be there's something about caves. so, may be it is shaolin 1 and fact 1, win-win, I say, eh. :)

mantis108

09-28-2005, 11:59 AM

Thanks for the link. It's pretty interesting. I can understand where you are coming from and it is true that I have not visited the cave to check the Fengshui. So I believe it would be better for me to keep my theory to the extend that I have laid out. :)

I appreciate your sharing of the info., my friend.

Warm regards

Mantis108

David Jamieson

09-28-2005, 01:12 PM

the tamo story does teach a couple of things to the seeker of kungfu.

for me, the lessons are:

diligence in practice
mindfulness in practice
purpose in practice

The rest is not relevant for me as a martial artist.
Those three points are HUGE for any martial artist.

beiquan

10-10-2005, 02:35 AM

hmmm... do i dare get into this discussion again...
Funny thing is that in my experience most reasonably educated Chinese practitioners recognize the Bodhidharma myth AS myth while Westerners cling to it dogmatically. That is, except for the Chinese who make money off of selling this myth back to Westerners; I'm assuming that's where the OP falls. Even in the Shaolinsi wushu baike quanshu, an encyclopedia of Shaolin written by a Shaolin monk there is an essay explaining that Bodhidharma did not teach martial arts. I translated it a few years ago for this forum, you can find it here:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20750
I recently presented a paper at a Buddhist studies conference on 9th-10th century text preserved in the Daoist canon attributing various immortality techniques to Bodhidharma. These techniques had nothing to do with India or Buddhism, and had existed in China for centuries before Buddhism even arrived. Already a few hundred years after his death, people were using his name to propagate their own beliefs. It only gets worse after that, and the ultimate hoax was the so-called Yijin/Xisui jing. It's extremely common to rely on the name of a famous figure from the past in order to attempt to legitimate a new technique or teaching. If you really want to know more about these people, there are many credible scholars who have done serious research on them. Jeffrey Broughton, Bernard Faure, John McRae (especially his latest book _Seeing Through Zen_), just to name a few. Also Xu Zhedong and Tang Hao, if you can read Chinese. All (most) available in your local public university library.
Someone mentioned that this is just the agenda of pacifist Buddhist scholars. Well I will agree that most Buddhists don't find this story very credible . I took refuge in a monastery in S. Taiwan and I spoke to many of the monks and nuns about this story; they didn't really buy it. When I was researching this late Tang Daoist text I also came across several critiques written by prominent Chan monks insisting that Bodhidharma would not have engaged in such vulgar bodily practices. It was asked, "What good is that kind of conclusion to the study of martial arts?" I could just as easily ask that of those people who propagate this nonsense. How does blindly clinging to a story for which there is no real evidence, or making fantastic speculations with no concrete proof help advance the study of Chinese martial arts?
I agree with Gene about the importance of the metaphor. These stories are really great stories and I understand that many of us got into CMA because of them. But after you cross the river, you can't carry the raft on your back forever. The art speaks for itself, if people only want to practice it because it was supposedly created by some larger-than-life spiritual superman, well...

P.S. what's a scientific liberalist? and why are skepticism (or simply the faculty to think critically, as I like to see it) and practicing CMA mutually exclusive? there's so much BS in CMA today that you could waste an entire lifetime if you're not critical enough.

beiquan

10-10-2005, 03:49 AM

More fun with facts:

Chan Buddhism in China became of age owes a lot to Hui Neng.
Or so his "disciple" and champion Shenhui, who brought this little-known monk out of obscurity in order to champion his "Southern" brand of Chan and discredit the then-6th patriarch, Shenxiu (recognized by Hongren and the Tang government), would have you believe. See Yampolsky's translation of the Dunhuang MS of the Platform scripture, or John McRae's recent _Seeing Through Zen_.

the Vajra Pranja Paramita (diamond) sutra ... Bodhidharma was also accredited to have brought the sutra with him.
The only sutra with which Bodhidharma has been associated is the Lankavatara. The definitive translation of the VPP was done by Kumarajiva in the early 5th century, over a hundred years before Bodhidharma arrived.

Parasurama and Buddha are both considered descends of Vishnu the Preserver who is also mentioned in the VPP sutra if I am not mistaken.
Yes, in fact, you are mistaken. Not sure what relevance this fact would have were it indeed true.

So in essence, there is not real conflict from the newly converted Buddhist (ie Bodhidharma) point of view to keep certain Hindu traditions and teachings.
Except that even the most basic Buddhist scriptures teach that "Hinduism" - specifically Saivism and Vaisnavism - is waidao - heterodox, heretical.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Scott R. Brown

10-10-2005, 06:41 PM

This is assuredly a fascinating discussion, but one which will never reach an agreed upon conclusion. This is because conclusions are reached through assumptions, that is, principles, ideas, facts we accept as true, but which cannot be verified as ACTUALLY true! We may all have our own ideas and beliefs and we are entitled to them, but the truth is we will never really know what happened. Even if we accept one opinion as more plausible than another at some level it will still be based upon un-provable information and therefore still speculation!

To me what is most important are the principles of Chan and not who or where they came from. Fanciful stories are interesting and entertaining and may contain psychological metaphor; however, they are not necessary to understanding or practicing Chan and cannot be proven one way or the other anyway! To discuss various opinions can be fun, but will never lead to validated facts, just accepted facts.

If the principles of Chan are valid, then they will withstand testing, examination and personal practice! Someone said that transmission takes place directly from person to person. While this maybe the tradition of some, clinging to the idea of formal transmission from mind to mind as the only method of direct perception is attachment to form. This is not the teaching of Hui-Neng!

There is a well-known painting found on the cover of “The Diamond Sutra & The Sutra of Hui-Neng” by A. F. Price and Wong Mou-lam. Painted by Liang K’ai in the 13th century, it illustrates Hui-Neng tearing up a sutra. This does not merely communicate the principle that sutras are not necessary for realization, but that all types of formalized training or conditioning are unnecessary. Realization, or direct unsullied perception, is a personal condition that is stimulated by the world system, but the action occurs within the mind. As such, an acceptance of any one version as to the origins of Chan or its historical transmission to China is un-necessary to achieve realization. To accept and argue over un-provable history is likewise an attachment to form and according to the teachings of Hui-Neng, to be avoided.

While we are enjoying the spirited debate let us not forget the teachings of Chan!

Andy62

11-23-2005, 12:01 PM

http://www.zenmind.com/bodhidharma.html

shizenjin

09-03-2006, 04:19 PM

Su Lin

09-03-2006, 04:35 PM

This is a pretty good website with some good links and articles.
Happy reading!
http://www.buddhanet.net/

David Jamieson

09-03-2006, 08:29 PM

HI,
Ive been doing some research in to Bodhidharma but I'm getting some mixed results. All I know so far is that
1 - it took him 7 years to burn thru a mountain with his eyes,
2 - he was in indian prince.
3 - he was around in 500ad (ish)

I have a lot of questions, but if anyone has a link to a slightly more factual website I'd really like to read it.

Q's

- Was Bodhidharma a hindu?
- did he teach the shaolin monks healing exercises? - what were they called?
- is Bodhidarma the founder of Buddhism or was it there before?

Sorry if these are a bit Noobie style questions but Its pretty had to find someone who knows what there talking about.

:)

Well, he didn't exactly burn through a mountain with his eyes, he wasn't necessarily an Indian Prince and yes, he was around by all acounts in and around the 6th century CE.

To the Q's

No. He was the alleged founder of the Ch'an sect of Buddhism. Known more widely as Zen.

He reputedly taught Dhayana (Ch'an/Zen) exercises some commonly known today as qigongs. The legends have it that he taught the Bone Marrow Washing Classic (http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs009.html)(xi sui jing) and the Muscle Tendon Change Classic (http://www.martialartsmart.net/vidshaolmusc.html)(yi jin jing).

It follows that this is seen as the foundational work that began what followed and is known as Shaolin Kung Fu which is inclusive of qigongs such as mentioned, martial arts, medicinal practices and most importantly Ch'an Buddhism.

He is not the founder of Buddhism. He is considered the founder of Ch'an (zen) Buddhism. The first patriarch of the sect. Followed by many and spread around the world in the here and now.

Buddhism bears it's name from Shakyamuni Buddha, Siddarhtha Guatama (circa 500BCE) A hindu prince. There is a lot of material available on this person including a complete(mostly) and consistent (fairly) account of his birth, life and death.

Where else are you going to start? The internet is a good place , provided you do go to the right place. there are many buddhist and buddhism related websites. Zen Buddhism will have the story in context to the experience of the Japanese and their recieving of the transmission. The Koreans have Zen as well, as do many other asian countries which actively practice it as it has been in their traditions for where ever they fell in the 1500 year timeline since bodhidharma. :)

anyway... all this can be gleaned from just about anywhere in relation to zen buddhism or shaolin kungfu.

WanderingMonk

09-04-2006, 02:31 PM

http://www.buddhism-dict.net/cgi-bin/xpr-ddb.pl?90.xml+id('b9054-6469')

Bodhidharma

Senses:
# (d. 536?; also 達摩). The putative founder of the Chan school 禪宗 in China. He is said to have come from India to teach the direct transmission from mind to mind, not relying on scriptural sources 不立文字. The Chan school records him as having passed his enlightenment down to a succession of disciples, who are called the patriarchs of the Chan school. According to his traditional biography he was the scion of a South Indian royal family, 28th in a direct line of transmission from Śākyamuni, whose master (the 27th patriarch) told him to transmit the dharma to China. He went there by the perilous sea route, arriving in the region of Canton in the early C6. He proceeded to Jiankang, where he had his famous dialogue with Liang Wudi 梁武帝, which ended with him telling the emperor that all his munificent donorship would gain him no merit. He then went North, crossing the Yangzi on a reed, and went into retirement on Mt. Song near Luoyang (site of Shaolin Temple), where he meditated constantly for nine years in a cave. Tradition also has it that he was the originator of the martial arts of the Shaolin monks. Huike 慧可, a literatus of no mean accomplishment as well as a Buddhist monk, came to him and cut off his arm to show his ardor for the dharma, and received transmission, becoming the 29th patriarch and 2nd in the Chinese lineage. First mention of Bodhidharma in the extant historical record is found in the Luoyang qielan ji 洛陽伽藍記, (Record of the Buddhist Temples of Luoyang), written around 547; in this text, Bodhidharma appears as a pious and well-traveled foreign pilgrim whose astonishment at the Buddhist architecture of Luoyang is therefore even greater testament to the brilliance of the city than any mere Chinese testament. If any of the texts that we now have come directly from Bodhidharma's hand or reflect his teachings, then it is probably those translated by Broughton which were recovered at Dunhuang; among those the Erru sixing lun 二入四行論 may be the best candidate for the title of 'the Ur-text of Chan' . [m.radich]

http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/huineng/huineng10.html

list of Ch'an school's patriach before bodhidharma

From the Buddha Sakyamuni, the Law was transmitted to the:

1st Patriarch Arya Mahakasyapa (It was then in turn transmitted to)
2nd Patriarch Arya Ananda
3rd Patriarch Arya Sanavasa
4th Patriarch Arya Upagupta
5th Patriarch Arya Dhritaka
6th Patriarch Arya Michaka
7th Patriarch Arya Vasumitra
8th Patriarch Arya Buddhanandi
9th Patriarch Arya Buddhamitra
10th Patriarch Arya Parsva
11th Patriarch Arya Punyayasas
12th Patriarch Bodhisattva Asvaghosa
13th Patriarch Arya Kapimala
14th Patriarch Bodhisattva Nagarjuna
15th Patriarch Kanadeva
16th Patriarch Arya Rahulata
17th Patriarch Arya Sanghanandi
18th Patriarch Arya Sangayasas
19th Patriarch Arya Kumarata
20th Patriarch Arya Jayata
21st Patriarch Arya Vasubandhu
22nd Patriarch Arya Manura
23rd Patriarch Arya Haklenayasas
24th Patriarch Arya Sinha
25th Patriarch Arya Vasiastia
26th Patriarch Arya Punyamitra
27th Patriarch Arya Prajnatara
28th Patriarch Arya Bodhidharma (the first Patriarch in China)
29th Patriarch Grand Master Hui Ke
30th Patriarch Grand Master Seng Can
31st Patriarch Grand Master Dao Xin
32nd Patriarch Grand Master Hung Ren

David Jamieson

09-04-2006, 02:59 PM

Buddhism was in China before Bodhidharmas arrival. Actually, quite a while before and so, he was the first patriarch of Ch'an, but not of Buddhism in China as indicated by the list provided above.

Ch'an is certainly not the only form of Buddhism that was and is in China.
There is also some argument about Hui neng being the 6th patriarch due to a face off between Shen-hsui (600-706) and Shen-hui (670-762).

Historically, Shen-hui prevaled and Hui-neng sprang from that to form the New Ch'an and during the Tang dynasty the different branches of Ch'an became established. two notable masters of these new branches were Lin-chi and ts'ao-tung with other less notable masters also contributing to the spread of Ch'an.

There are different schools of practice of Ch'an(zen). some that are familiar are the long slow path and the sudden path. these are the brightest examples of differences in thinking in regards to practice. The fundamental goal of Ch'an remains virtually the same in all it's aspects though. and taht's another thing entirely. :p

WanderingMonk

09-04-2006, 05:36 PM

Buddhism was in China before Bodhidharmas arrival. Actually, quite a while before and so, he was the first patriarch of Ch'an, but not of Buddhism in China as indicated by the list provided above.

As I had noted in my post

list of Ch'an school's patriach before bodhidharma

of course buddhism was in china before bodhidharma, but bodhidharma's transmission was a transmission that is outside of scripture. this particular teaching (dhyana school) was not available in China until bodhidharma's arrival. This is the direct path of enlightenment in present body as opposed to the gradual path that was more readily available in China at the time.

Vajramusti

09-04-2006, 06:36 PM

Because of nationalism in China and Hindu chauvinism in India- Bodhi dharama
is somewhat of a neglected figure. And- because of differences in historical traditions in India, China and the West- legends and facts get mixed up.
But if one understands basic Chan epistemology- the relationship with the dhyana tradition among India based Mahayana schools is fairly clear to many careful thinkers.
Buddhism went to China and other places fairly quickly via travelling monks after the death of Sakyamuni. The mind to mind transmission of Chan and Zen can be seen in the Buddha/Kasyapa wordless transmission- a flower and a smile. The distinctive nature of Chan was and is quite different from other forms of Buddhism.
The Chinese traveller Huen Tsang who brought many classic texts from India to China helped develop the Idealist shool which is different from Chan.
Buddhism in India was once widespread not only in the Ganges valley but extended north to Afghanistan and to the southern tip of India.
The resurgence of Hinduism- through Shankara's Advaita Vedanta and the work of Hindu kings, Brahminic arrogance and dogmatism,corruption in teaching and the coming of Islam among other things unfortunately cotributed to decline of Indian interest and understanding of Buddhism.
Chan is so distinctive- if Bodhidharma didnt exist- he would have to be invented.
His orally transmitted sermons specially "The Outline of Practice" clearly has an Indian stylistc flavor in the analogies and examples.
South India once was great home for both Buddhism and jainism. The Bodhidharma is said to have been born in Kanchipuram in the pallava dynasty.
South India had maritime contact with China and southeast Asia. By the time Bodhidharma arrived in Canton-China via cam ran bay in Vietnam..there were thousands of buddhist temples in China, colonies on indian monks and Chinese and even Korean travellers returning from India. Its possible that the Bodhidharama received martial training as an youth. I doubt that he started martial arts in China. However- yogic body control and mastery of breath was indeed common to Buddhism and Hinduism and added an additional dimension to activity.. What was distinctive about Dhyan(sanskrit), Chan, Zen (or Zan in Pali) was its dependence on disciplined observation and experience rather than scri ptural memorization and ritual.... though reportedly Bodhidharma spoke favorably about the Lankavatara sutra.,
"Sutra" is literallya "thread" that holds things together.
Careful reading of Hui neng or Dogen(Shobygenzo-in Japan) parallels the insight of the Bodhidharma in "The Outline of Practice".

joy chaudhuri

David Jamieson

09-04-2006, 08:29 PM

As I had noted in my post

of course buddhism was in china before bodhidharma, but bodhidharma's transmission was a transmission that is outside of scripture. this particular teaching (dhyana school) was not available in China until bodhidharma's arrival. This is the direct path of enlightenment in present body as opposed to the gradual path that was more readily available in China at the time.

As I understand it, it is said that Bodhidharma took Hui ke as his disciple and transmitted the lankavatara sutra to him. This sutra is considered the seed of Ch'an although it is true that the living practice of Ch'an is not dependent on scripture. It doesn't wholly discount it though. Ironically enough, there are many writings on Ch'an from within it's sects.

And the enlightenment they offered was popular because it extended the freedom of attaining buddhahood to the non initiate or layman. Prior to this idea in buddhism, it was thought that buddhahood could only be obtained by the initiates through entrance to monastic practice and diligent and rigid adherence to the buddha law as prescribed by writings.

So, the school of Buddhism that was offered by the likes of Bodhidharma was very appealing to the greater public. It was perceived as an easier path. And one could gain karmic merit through good deeds which would pile up life after life until buddhahood was attained. More good deeds, the quicker the path to salvation. And everyone could play! :p

WanderingMonk

09-05-2006, 08:31 AM

As I understand it, it is said that Bodhidharma took Hui ke as his disciple and transmitted the lankavatara sutra to him. This sutra is considered the seed of Ch'an although it is true that the living practice of Ch'an is not dependent on scripture. It doesn't wholly discount it though. Ironically enough, there are many writings on Ch'an from within it's sects.

When I read the phrase "transmission outside of scripture", to me, it means that it was a teaching that was passed down from master to student and was not written down in the scripture. The early scriptures came about because Shakyamuni's surviving students felt a need to organize and formalize the buddha's teaching to avoid corruption after he entered nirvana. But, these scriptures would not encompass all that Shakyamuni taught. Since the dao that can be spoken is not the true Dao. True transmission is sometime just a couple insightful advises to a student that is on the verge of breakthrough while general transmission is often weighted down with alot of perpherial stuffs. So, Dhayana is not a school that felt scriptures are unnecessary or irrelevant, it is a school that received some key insights from Shakyamuni which cut through some of the unnecessary perpherial materials.

And the enlightenment they offered was popular because it extended the freedom of attaining buddhahood to the non initiate or layman. Prior to this idea in buddhism, it was thought that buddhahood could only be obtained by the initiates through entrance to monastic practice and diligent and rigid adherence to the buddha law as prescribed by writings.

something somewhat tangential, when one says, seek the refuge in the three jewels of buddha, dharma, and sangha, what exactly does this sangha refers to?

does it really mean any person who is a ordained monk/nun or does it means more than that?

for when Shakyamuni originally taught the law, he had five hundred students who attained arahat fruition. did the sangha refers to sangha who have attained spiritual enlightenment or just any mundane sangha who is going through with the motions?

So, the school of Buddhism that was offered by the likes of Bodhidharma was very appealing to the greater public. It was perceived as an easier path. And one could gain karmic merit through good deeds which would pile up life after life until buddhahood was attained. More good deeds, the quicker the path to salvation. And everyone could play! :p

To say it is appealing because it doesn't not involve becoming ordained monk to attain enlightenment might be true. However, I will question the assertion that it was perceived as an easier path. Ch'an is a step function. It is either nothing or enlightenment. You got no way to measure your progress. To say that one can gained karmic merits through good deeds which bring about buddhahood seems to be a direct contradiction to Bodhidharma's advise when he encountered Emperor Wu of Liang Dynasty (I admit I am probably misreading your sentences). Bodhidharma told him that meritous deeds actually does not have a direct effect on how fast one gain enlightenment.

May I entertained you with this butchered translatioin of the platform sutra

The verse of No-phenomenon in the Sixth Patriarch's Platform Sutra states:

"Confused people cultivate blessing and not path of enlightenment.
Claiming blessing cultivation is path to enlightenment.
Although alms-giving and offerings bring boundless blessings,
Origin of the three poisons is the heart.
Planning to annihilate offenses through cultivating blessing,
Despite gaining future blessings, offenses remain
If purge the causes of offenses in the heart,
That is what is called true repentance in self-nature.
Suddenly realize the Mahayana's true repentance,
Cease deviancy and practice righteousness, then no offense.
Often contemplate self-nature in the study of the path,
Promptly become the same as Buddhas.
My patriarch only transmitted this sudden awakening practice,
Universally wishing [everyone] to see Buddha nature sharing the same body.
If desire to search for the dharma body,
Leave all dharma phenomena and purify the heart.
Diligent cultivate self-view don't be lax,
if the stream of thoughts does not cease then this life is wasted.
If awaken to Mahayana and see true nature,
piously join palms and diligently seek with devoted heart."

for if one accumulate positive karma thinking it will help him, he would do so. yet, in his next life, he could become deluded and all of his good karma would suddenly become a great weapon to do harm thereby postponing his enlightenment. for someone who accumulates great blessing for living a austere life, he might be reborned into a wealthy household in the next life. It is of good probability that he might be corrupted by friends of ill-repute because wealth is such a great magnet for people of that ilk. Then, the wealth and power at his disposal might become a mean to do great harm to himself and others. Hence, the act of accumulating positive karma without guidance of wisdom may prove to be a deluded man's folley.

David Jamieson

09-05-2006, 08:50 AM

sangha is, well to me, is just community united in common goal and view and practice.

buddha to me, refers to the buddha nature within all of us.

dharma is of course cut a dried as "law" that is to say, adherance to teh 8 fold path as prescribed by shakyamuni buddha in order to come to understand what you as a being really are and how to interact with the world and universe around you.

i would add that terms such as greter vehicle and klesser vehicle are outmoded and in some cases considered derogatory. the schools themselves have come to be more widely used in phrasology wrapped around buddhism.

there si no mundane sangha and yet all sangha are mundane. that's the nature of duality and how we form systems within our unavoidable reliance on duality to function and grasp the realities of the day to day world.

As for perceiving what is, and what "really" is, that was teh point i was trying to make in regards to extending the possibility of buddha attainment to the general populace.

It was perceived as easier because it didn't mean that you would have to go through the arduous and rigid practices of monastic life. you could be a laymen and still make approach. It still took the hard work ultimately, but just not in the form of monastic living and monastic protocol. This was the appeal and the error of perception all in one. :)

With time and practice, people eventually come to realize that anything with real value is not easy to attain. Most certainly not understanding the true nature of ones self which is what the practice of Ch'an is geared towards.

thanks for you transliteration. :)
I have read of no-phenomenon in teh Lotus sutra as well in context to the instruction made to those people on how to deal with and see phenomena such as magic tricks, illusions and so on.

In some respects I believe there is an aspect of passive nihilism in phases along the path. If one can't get past the idea of all is mind and therefor does not actually exist. In our lifetime, things do exist and effect and affect the world and the things within it. However, the framework and construct can and oftemn does change with every generation.

you and I do not live in the same world our grandfathers lived in. We don't percieve our world in teh same way, because it is not the same, it changes with every mind that effects and affects change in the existing generation.

many of us, if not virtually all of us get caught in this erroneous perception and understanding of reality. some take the path of passive nihilism while others move through that and get a bigger picture..so to speak.

very interesting topic though to say the least. thanks very much for discussing.

GeneChing

01-30-2014, 09:43 AM

Not even a book really, but kind of cool.

Unusual flat-pack daruma voted Japan’s most fascinating souvenir (http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/01/30/unusual-flat-pack-daruma-voted-japans-most-fascinating-souvenir/)
Oona McGee 11 hours ago

http://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/kd_daruma06-510x3401.jpg?w=580&h=387

If you’re looking for a unique Japanese gift that’s light in your luggage but heavy in tradition, then this is the item for you. It’s called the KD Daruma (Knock-Down Daruma) and it’s modelled on the centuries-old, round, good-luck talisman which symbolises Bodhidharma, the founder of the Zen sect of Buddhism. This modern take on the daruma features a flat-pack design and clever assembly so unusual it’s just been awarded first prize as Japan’s most fascinating souvenir in a competition held by the Japan Tourism Agency. We take a closer look at the details to see what makes this little novelty so charming.

http://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/kd_daruma081.jpg?w=580&h=363

Three local companies in Takasaki City, Gunma Prefecture, worked together to form “occS”, which released the product in July last year. Takasaki is renowned throughout Japan as the largest producer of daruma dolls, which are traditionally made from paper mâché and then painted a vivid shade of red. The city is even home to the famous Shōrinzan, otherwise known as the ”daruma temple,” where it’s claimed the first dolls originated in the late 17th Century.

http://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/kd_daruma05-510x5101.jpg?w=580&h=580

The KD Daruma comes in two versions: plywood or cardboard. The plywood model, at 3,990 yen (US$38.84) is sturdier and lighter in colour than the cardboard version, priced at 1,890 yen (US$18.40). Both versions are assembled with flat pieces created by a laser cutter.

http://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/kd_daruma021.jpg?w=580&h=363

In keeping with the country’s efforts to promote “cool Japan” to the world, the packaging is simple and modern, with details and instructions printed in both Japanese and English.

http://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/kd_daruma041.jpg?w=580&h=386

The design even allows you to use the doll as it’s traditionally intended: by giving it one black eye with paint or a marker as you wish for success at the beginning of a venture. Once the goal has been realised, the other eye can be painted on. Cardboard makes a great surface on which to draw eyes!

http://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/kd_daruma-510x5461.jpg?w=580&h=621

On sale online through Amazon Japan, this piece of industrial art manages to exude a zen-like tranquility with its negative space and simplicity. It’s a surprisingly perfect blend of modern and traditional Japan in one easy-to-handle package!

YMAA_com

02-27-2014, 12:58 PM

I love the Red Pine book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Zen-Teaching-Bodhidharma/dp/0865473994

It is transcriptions of Bodhidharma speaking to the monks. He is a total bad ass, and the sermons are just as valid and pertinent today as then.

And also highly recommend all the books on Chan/Zen by Huai-Chin Nan:
http://www.amazon.com/Huai-Chin-Nan/e/B001I0CX7E/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_4?qid=1393532098&sr=1-4

David Jamieson

02-27-2014, 02:16 PM

This is important to Zen.

http://holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Lankavatara-Sutra-A-Mahayana-Text.pdf

r.(shaolin)

03-01-2014, 01:38 PM

You might find, The Northern School and the Formation of Early Ch’an Buddhism, by the Buddhist scholar, McRae helpful. McRae was also the author of: Seeing through Zen: Encounter, Transformation, and Genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism, as well as many important articles. In addition, he wrote one of the few English translations of the Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra for the Numata Center for Buddhist Translation and Research. McRae, who had previously taught at Cornell University and Indiana University, was serving as a lecturer at Komazawa University in Tokyo at the time of his death in 2011.

Although difficulty to find the monograph by renown Buddhist scholar, Dr. A.W. Barber titled: The Practice Lineage of Tathagatagarbha. it is interesting as well.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathāgatagarbha_Sūtra)

rik
.................................
www.shaolinwushu.com

Since Shaolin is the basis for many styles taught today, I've kind of developed an interest in who he was and what he taught (MA/Chan). A friend of mine sent me the following books which I think you all would like.

"The Bodhidharma Anthology - The Earliest Records of Zen" - Jefferey L. Broughton
ISBN 0-52-021972-4.

This is a translation of one of the 100's of scrolls found from the Tang dynasty that were found hidden in the Mo-Kao Grottoes of Northwest China in the town of Tun Huang.

"Zen Buddhism: A History" Heinrich Dumoulin
ISBN 0-02-908260-9

A two volume set (India & CHina) & (Japan & Tibet). Good overall information on Buddhism and Bodhidharma.

"Daruma: The Founder of Zen in Japanese Art and Popular Culture" - H. Neill McFarland
ISBN 0-87011-817-X

Starndard Biography but has alot of Statues, Paintings which are quite unique. Especially the one of him in a "House of Pleasure". P24/

Do any of you have any additional books you would recommend?

eric Hargrove
ngokfei@juno.com

Vajramusti

03-01-2014, 07:03 PM

[QUOTE=YMAA_com;1262589]I love the Red Pine book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Zen-Teaching-Bodhidharma/dp/0865473994
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do too. The first sermon- Outline of Practice- has the most original sanskritic flavor reflecting the Indian origin of
the Bodhidharma.

The Lankavatara sutra was supposedly Bodhidharma's favorite. But the Outline of practice is so elegant, simple and a clear example of zen.

"Zen", "Chan" and "Dhyan" are simply Japanese, Chinese and Indian terms for the same thing.

Some of Suzuki's notes shows that while he translates well his understanding is nowhere near that of Dogen.

joyotpaul chaudhuri

GeneChing

09-01-2015, 11:22 AM

FELL DOWN

This is totally OT but I have a soft spot for Miike films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEh1fT1IH14

GeneChing

06-29-2016, 12:25 PM

I saw this on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Kung-Fu-Tai-Chi-Magazine-135964689362/) today and was reminded of the myth of Tamo crossing the Yangtze on a reed. I didn't realize that this was even a thing.

https://www.facebook.com/trendinginchina/videos/vb.423670114403144/714413391995480/?type=2&theater

GeneChing

06-01-2017, 09:49 AM

The Story Of The South Indian Prince Bodhidharma Who Founded Zen Buddhism And Shaolin Kung Fu (http://www.sooziq.com/73805/the-story-of-the-south-indian-prince-bodhidharma-who-founded-zen-buddhism-and-shaolin-kung-fu/)

10 days ago

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Born a prince in Pallava kingdom in South India to the king of Kanchipuram, Bodhidharma left kingdom at an early age to follow the Mahayana path and became a monk.
The youngest of three brothers, Bodhidharma was trained in breathing exercises as he was born with a breathing disorder. He was also trained in Dravidian warfare and self-defense techniques.
Bodhidharma studied Dhyana Buddhism and became the 28th patriarch of this religion. At the age of 22, Bodhidharma attained enlightenment and was sent to China as a messenger.
It was Gautama Buddha who taught Dhyana or meditation but it was after 100 years that Bodhidharma took meditation to China where it became Chan and spread to other countries like Indonesia, Japan and to the Far East where it became Zen. In Chan texts, Bodhidharma is referred as `The Blue-Eyed Barbarian’. His teachings and practice were based on meditation and Lankavatara Sutra.
Bodhidharma is also regarded as the founder of weaponless fighting art, which gave birth to modern day martial arts. Read on to know more.

Shaolin Temple.

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Buddhbhadra or Ba Tuo was an Indian monk who went to China in 495 AD to teach Xiao Sheng Buddhism, a form of Buddhism. Emperor Shao Wen gave the monk some land at the foot of Shaoshi mountain and it was on this land that Ba Tuo founded the Shaolin Temple.

Bodhidharma arrived in China 32 years after Shaolin Temple was founded.

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Bodhidharma crossed through Guangdong province and entered China while he was practising Da Sheng (Mahayana) Buddhism and was known as Da Mo. He was greeted by a large crowd who had heard about the famous Buddhist master and wanted to hear him speak. But he sat down to meditate for many hours. After completing his meditation, Bodhidharma rose and walked away without saying a word. This action of his had a profound effect on the crowd and this incident made Bodhidharma even more famous.

Bodhidharma became so famous that Emperor Wu invited him.

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Emperor Wu ruled the southern kingdom of China and invited Bodhidharma to his palace. The emperor talked to Bodhidharma about Buddhism. The emperor was hoping to receive praise from Bodhidharma but his negative response enraged Wu who ordered Bodhidharma to leave and never return.
Bodhidharma smiled and left.

Master Bodhidharma and his follower Shen Guang.

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It was in Flower Rain Pavilion in Nanjing city that Shen Guang first saw Bodhidharma. Shen Guang was an army General who had killed several people in battle. He changed after realising that one day someone would kill him. So, he decided to become a Buddhist monk.
While delivering a speech, Shen saw Bodhidharma nodding his head to say yes. At times, he conveyed no through his head movement. It angered Shen Guang. He removed beads from his neck and flung at Bodhidharma.
The beads knocked out two front teeth of Bodhidharma. Instead of reacting, Bodhidharma smiled and walked away. Shen Guang was astonished at this reaction and started following Bodhidharma.

Shen Guang followed Bodhidharma for 13 years before Bodhidharma agreed to teach him.

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Shaolin monks invited Bodhidharma to stay at the temple but Bodhidharma did not reply and went to a cave on a mountain behind the Shaolin Temple and began meditating facing a wall in the cave. He meditated for nine long years as Shen Guang stayed outside the cave as a guard. Both Shen Guang and Shaolin monks would request Bodhidharma to teach them and stay at the temple but he never responded.

The Bodhidharma Ting at the Shaolin Temple.

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At the end of nine-year meditation, Shaolin monks made a special room, Bodhidharma Ting, for Bodhidharma and invited him again to stay at the temple. Bodhidharma did not respond but stood up and went to the room and began meditating again. Here too Shen Guang followed Bodhidharma and stood outside the room for another four years.

Bodhidharma agreed to teach Shen Guang only when red snow fell from the sky.

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By the end of the fourth year, Shen Guang had been following Bodhidharma for thirteen years and had become very angry. He picked up a large block of snow and hurled inside Bodhidharma’s room breaking his meditation. Shen Guang demanded to know when Bodhidharma would teach him to which the monk replied when red snow will fall from the sky.
Shen Guang cut off his left arm with his own sword and whirled the severed arm around. The blood from the arm froze in the cold and fell like red snow and hence Bodhidharma agreed to teach Shen Guang.

continued next post

GeneChing

06-01-2017, 09:56 AM

The teachings of Bodhidharma at Drum Mountain.

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The Drum Mountain in front of the Shaolin Temple is flat on top. Each year Bodhidharma would dig a well with a monk’s spade on the Drum Mountain and asked Shen Guang to use that water for all his needs. In first year, the water was bitter. In second year, the water was spicy, the third year water was sour and in the fourth year, the water was sweet. It made Shen Guang realise that water represents phases of life.
Without saying anything, Bodhidharma taught Shen Guang important lessons of mind-to-mind and heart-to-heart way of learning. This communication is called the ‘action language’ and is the foundation of Chan Buddhism that Bodhidharma taught at Shaolin temple.

Shen Guang was the first disciple.

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Shen Guang was given the name Hui Ke and became the abbot of Shaolin Temple after Bodhidharma. The disciples and monks of the Shaolin Temple still greet each other using their right hand only to pay respect for the sacrifice Hui Ke made.

The Shaolin monks and their exercises.

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The Shaolin monks translated Buddhist scriptures from Sanskrit and Pali to Chinese to allow the common man to practice the religion. Since they bent over the desk to write the scriptures manually, it affected their health. As a cure, Bodhidharma taught them Hatha and Raja yoga, which were native to India. The exercises were designed to improve internal and external strength and were based on the movement of eighteen animals including the snake, deer, leopard and tiger.

Shaolin Temple imbibed martial techniques taught by Bodhidharma.

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Shaolin monks were trained to fight wild animals and bandits in the remote areas where the temple was built. The monks blended fighting techniques with the teachings of Bodhidharma.

Martial arts at the Shaolin Temple.

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Bodhidharma introduced boxing in monastery as a form of exercise for Shaolin monks. He initially taught the monks in the ancient Indian style of armless combat which mainly used punching and fist techniques called as Vajramusthi which the prince Bodhidharma had learned in India. This technique is the basis of Shaolin style of fist fighting – Chuan-fa (way of fist).

Kung Fu.

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The ground rules of martial arts were laid down by Bodhidharma. He said it should never be used to hurt or injure needlessly. Bodhidharma’s fighting techniques were formalised into a martial art style known as Lohan (Priest-Scholar) that contained 18 positions and hand movements and was the basis of Shaolin Arts and Chinese Temple Boxing.
The 18 positions were improvised and enhanced to 170 by two Shaolin monks, Ch’ueh Yuan and Li-shao and are the basis of Kung Fu which probably is the best known of all Asian unarmed martial arts.

Bodhidharma brought tea to China.

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Legends have it that tea bushes sprang from the ground where Bodhidharma cut off his eyelids while meditating so that they would never close again. It is believed that this is the main reason for tea being so important for meditation as it helps the meditator to stay awake.

From Chan in China to Zen in Japan.

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The imaginations of Samurai warriors were stimulated with Bodhidharma’s concept of spiritual, intellectual and physical enlightenment. They made Zen their way of life and Daruma (Dharma – name for Bodhidharma) for them was a legend.
Bodhidharma is a popular icon of Japanese culture, folklore, and politics. The Daruma doll with its wide open eyes and lack of legs (Bodhidharma’s legs seemingly withered away because of his constant sitting position while meditating) which depicts Bodhidharma seated in meditation is one of the most popular talismans for good luck. The doll when knocked on its side, pops back up to its upright position symbolising perseverance in life (nana korobi ya oki – falling seven times and rising the eight-time).

“I am going home”, said Bodhidharma three years after his death.

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Ambassador Song Yun of northern Wei is said to have seen Bodhidharma three years after his death, walking with a shoe in his hand at the Pamir Heights. When the ambassador asked where he was going, Bodhidharma replied, “I am going home”. And when Song Yun asked why he is holding his shoe, Bodhidharma said, “You will know when you reach the Shaolin monastery. Don’t mention that you saw me or you will meet with disaster”.
After returning to the palace Song Yun told the emperor of the encounter he had with Bodhidharma and was sentenced to prison for lying as the emperor said that Bodhidharma was already dead and buried in a hill behind the Shaolin Temple. After this incident, the grave of Bodhidharma was exhumed and was found to contain only a single shoe. The monks said “Master has gone back home” and prostrated three times: “For nine years he had remained and nobody knew him; carrying a shoe in hand he went home quietly, without ceremony”. continued next post

GeneChing

06-01-2017, 09:56 AM

Ten life lessons from Bodhidharma.

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#1 Be utterly present
“Buddha means awareness, the awareness of body and mind that prevents evil from arising in either.”
#2 When you see mind, you see Buddha
“The Buddha is your real body, your original mind.”
#3 Watch your breath
“The mind is always present. You just don’t see it.”
#4 Detach from all needs
“The essence of the way is detachment.”
#5 Put an end to Karma
“To go from mortal to Buddha, you have to put an end to karma, nurture your awareness, and accept what life brings.”
#6 Free yourself from words
“Freeing oneself from words is liberation.”
#7 Plant good seeds early in your life
“If we should be blessed by some great reward, such as fame or fortune, it is because of the fruit of a seed planted by us in the past.”
#8 Reason and practice
“Many roads lead to the path, but basically there are only two: reason and practice.”
#9 Remain calm in all situations, either good or bad
“Those who remain unmoved by the wind of joy silently follow the Path.”
#10 Take charge
“Buddhas move freely through birth and death, appearing and disappearing at will.”
It was the legendary Bodhidharma who first proclaimed, “Directly point to the human mind; see one’s nature and become a Buddha; do not establish words and letters.

I liked the initial painting - surreal, yet based on the Songshan statue I helped build. ;)

GeneChing

10-13-2017, 08:55 AM

Bodhidharma had roots in Andhra: Prof (http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/vijayawada/2017/oct/13/bodhidharma-had-roots-in-andhra-prof-1672745.html)
By Express News Service | Published: 13th October 2017 01:56 AM |
Last Updated: 13th October 2017 08:18 AM

VIJAYAWADA: Bodhidharma, the founder of Chan (Zen) in China has deep roots in Andhra Pradesh and belongs to early Pallava dynasty from Srisailam region, claimed Professor T Raghu, author of ‘Bodhidharma Retold - A journey from Sailam to Shaolin’.Released by Chief Minister N Chandrababu Naidu, the author, in his book, made a path breaking revelation stating that the title Shaolin temple is derived from the geographical location Srisailam. Sailum, over the years of alternative pronunciation, became Shaolin.

Speaking to mediapersons here on Thursday, Raghu said that Kung Fu, the mother of martial arts has its origin in Andhra Pradesh. He said that in the present volume, he explained the Chinese version of Bodhidharma’s history and in the second volume, to be released in three months, he will narrate the Indian version of Bodhidharma’s life in Andhra Pradesh.

He said Yakshas were one of the tribes in the land around Srisailam region. Interestingly these Yakshas (Jakkus or Chenchus of today) also find place in Shaolin temple where the staff is named after them and Yakshas are worshipped.The author said that a Zen park monastery should be developed in Srisailam region to protect and highlight roots of Bodhidharma.

Sailum - interesting theory. Most believe the name Shaolin predates Bodhidharma. And the whole Bodhidharma/Kung Fu creation tale is generally accepted as apocryphal now, even at Shaolin.

GeneChing

10-13-2017, 09:07 AM

Jack Ma (Alibaba) (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69642-Jack-Ma-amp-Alibaba) & Bodhidharma (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?2128-Bodhidharma)

BODHIDHARMA
Alibaba’s $15 billion global R&D push is named after a legendary Indian monk from centuries ago
(https://qz.com/1101707/alibabas-15-billion-rd-global-push-damo-academy-%E8%BE%BE%E6%91%A9%E9%99%A2-is-named-after-indian-buddhist-monk-bodhidharma/)

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/rts1fzy1-e1507877732510.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=3200
Jack Ma, Chairman of Alibaba Group, speaks during the Computing Conference in Yunqi Town of Hangzhou, Zhejiang province, China October 11, 2017.
Think like a Zen master. (Reuters/Stringer)

WRITTEN BY
Zheping Huang
8 hours ago

Earlier this week, China’s e-commerce giant Alibaba announced that the company will invest $15 billion in R&D projects in the next five years and open seven tech labs across the globe—an initiative it’s calling DAMO Academy.
DAMO is a mouthful that stands for “Discovery, Adventure, Momentum, and Outlook,” and highlights Alibaba’s ambition to turn itself into a global tech giant in the same league as the likes of Google and Microsoft. The Chinese name of the R&D push, however, tells something about founder Jack Ma’s obsession with martial arts.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/bodhidharmayo****oshi1887.jpg
A portrait of Bodhidharma by Japanese artist Tsukioka Yo****oshi. (Public domain)

DAMO is written 达摩 in Chinese. That’s the Chinese name of Dharma, or Bodhidharma, a prince-turned-Buddhist monk from India, who is traditionally credited as the transmitter of Zen Buddhism to China in the 5th century. Zen Buddhism is then said to have inspired the martial arts practiced by the monks in China’s famous Shaolin monastery.
Unveiling the DAMO program in a speech (link in Chinese) to an audience of thousands in Hangzhou, Alibaba’s hometown, Jack Ma said he came up with the name just two weeks ago in a call with the company’s head of human resources. He said DAMO might sound a bit weird—but so is Google and Intel. “The more you read it… the more you’ll like it,” he said.
Ma is a known fan of Chinese martial arts. The 52-year-old earlier this year started giving tai chi classes to fellow entrepreneurs for $15,000 for six sessions. For years, he was also a loyal client of self-proclaimed qigong master Wang Lin—until the latter was charged with murder and later died in custody this February.
At Alibaba, every employee has a nickname for use within the company. And at least at high management levels, these names all come from martial arts fiction. Ma himself is nicknamed Feng Qing Yang, which roughly translate as “the wind blows briskly and lightly.” CEO Daniel Zhang is nicknamed Xiao Yao Zi, which means “free and unfettered man.” Both Feng Qing Yang and Xiao Yao Zi are formidable swordsmen from martial arts novels by Jin Yong.
Dharma also appears in the Jin Yong universe as a legendary figure who created secret kung fu techniques.

GeneChing

05-14-2018, 08:07 AM

Posted On Apr 22, 2018
How The Son Of An Indian King Cheated Death, Found Shaolin Kung Fu And Became Bodhidharma (https://www.mensxp.com/special-features/features/44200-how-the-son-of-an-indian-king-cheated-death-found-shaolin-kung-fu-and-became-bodhidharma.html)
Surabhi Verma
MensXP Staff Writer

https://media3.mensxp.com/media/content/2018/Apr/how-the-son-of-an-indian-king-cheated-death-found-shaolin-kung-fu-and-became-bodhidharma1400-1524221844_1100x513.jpg

A British professor of philosophy once observed that if Buddha is the vital linkage of continuity from Rig Veda down to recent centuries of Indian culture, then Bodhidharma was the vital linkage of the continuity connecting India with China, Korea, and Japan.

Bodhidharma's existence can be traced back to around 5th century. Known to be the founder of Chan Buddhism in China, he mostly devoted his life to transmit its culture and follow its practices. Not only did he travel to China, but also to various parts of Asia to spread this form of Buddhism. As per various folklores and legends, he was the monk who began the intensive physical training at Shaolin Monastery that gave birth to Shaolin Kungfu or Shaolin Wushu. Some believe that Bodhidharma came from the West; there are many accounts and tales of his existence and life, though mostly layered and not absolute.

Becoming A Monk

https://media0.mensxp.com/media/content/2018/Apr/how-the-son-of-an-indian-king-cheated-death-found-shaolin-kung-fu-and-became-bodhidharma1-1524221855.jpg
© Pinterest

When Batuo or Buddhabhadra was laying the foundation of the first Shaolin Monastery, there was a prince in the southern part of India. His name was Bodhidharma and it is believed that he was the favorite son of the king, amongst the three brothers. Bodhidharma had a sharp mind and his brothers used to be very jealous of him. They even tried to assassinate him so as to become the next heir of the kingdom; however, they were unsuccessful as Bodhidharma remained untouched. Bodhidharma, in reality, was least interested in ruling the kingdom or in politics, he had decided to become a Buddhist monk.

Gaining Popularity In China

During 527 AD, Bodhidharma arrived in China and began practicing meditation there. At times his silence left his audience stunned and astonished. People began to observe him every day and started calling him Da Mo. He was later called by the Chinese emperor Wu where he imparted his knowledge to the king. His teachings made him popular and the king even erected many Buddhist temples in his kingdom. Soon Da Mo was famous in China and people regarded him as the great monk.

Nine Years Of Wall Gazing

https://media2.mensxp.com/media/content/2018/Apr/how-the-son-of-an-indian-king-cheated-death-found-shaolin-kung-fu-and-became-bodhidharma2-1524221871.jpg
© YouTube

As Da Mo reached the Shaolin Temple by crossing the Yangzi River in China, he went to a cave mountain, sat facing towards a wall and started meditating. At the time of his meditation, another monk named Shen Guang (who met Da Mo on the way and followed him across the river, after getting inspired from his wisdom) stayed outside Da Mo's cave and protected him from any dangers. Da Mo's meditation and wall gazing continued for nine long years. Time-to-time Shen Guang asked Da Mo to teach and impart him some knowledge; however, never received any answer from him. Legend has it that one day Da Mo's concentration became so intense that his own image got craved on the wall he was gazing at. Da Mo later shifted to the special room created by Shaolin Monks and meditated there for another four years. All these years, Shen Guang was protecting Da Mo until the day he broke his master's concentration.

Shen Guang (Hui Ke) Cuts His Arm

https://media0.mensxp.com/media/content/2018/Apr/how-the-son-of-an-indian-king-cheated-death-found-shaolin-kung-fu-and-became-bodhidharma3-1524221883.jpg
© Pinterest

As Da Mo turned down each request made by Shen Guang, one day Shen decided to break Mo's concentration while he was meditating. He took a ball of snow and hurled it in Da Mo's room. As Mo woke up from his meditation he confronted Guang and told him that he would teach him when red snow would fall from the sky. Affected by the same, Shen cut off his arm and his dripping blood turned into snow due to freezing temperature. He gave it to Mo, after which Mo decided to teach him. He later taught him the meaning of life by carving four different wells on a mountain, which resonated with four different aspects of life. Shen Guang later became the successor of Da Mo after his death, and carried his teaching throughout the world.

Teaching At Shaolin

https://media2.mensxp.com/media/content/2018/Apr/how-the-son-of-an-indian-king-cheated-death-found-shaolin-kung-fu-and-became-bodhidharma4-1524221895.jpg
© Pinterest

At Shaolin, the monks had poor physical shape and structure which disturbed Bodhidharma (Da Mo). Therefore, he instructed them techniques to maintain their physical condition and taught them meditation. The series of exercises are now known as the Eighteen Arhat Hands. As he took his departure from Shaolin, two manuscripts were discovered - The Yijin Jing and the Xisui Jing. He later traveled to parts of Malaysia, Indonesia, walked through Java, Bali, and Sumatra and transmitted Chan Buddhism.

Death And Mysterious Appearance
Bodhidharma died without a proper ceremony. His body was later buried on a hill behind the Shaolin temple. Three years after his death, Ambassador Sòngyún of northern Wei mentioned about having seen Bodhidharma walking with a shoe in his hand. As per the tales, on having met Bodhidharma, Sòngyún asked him the reason behind carrying a shoe in his hand to which he replied 'I am going home. Do not reveal this to anyone or you will meet with a disaster'. When Sòngyún told the emperor about it, he explained that Bodhidharma had died three years back and punished him for telling a lie.

Bodhidharma's grave was later exhumed and only a shoe was found inside! In the modern era, Bodhidharma has remained a subject of scientific research and is considered the founder of Chan Buddhism. Till date, to pay their respect to the founder of Shaolin Kungfu, the Shaolin Monks greet everyone using their right hand!

I like the Huike pic.

GeneChing

10-04-2018, 08:04 AM

Cranky Indian prince? Really? :rolleyes:

The cranky Indian prince who invented kung fu (https://indianexpress.com/article/parenting/learning/indian-prince-bodhidharma-invented-kung-fu-5385830/)
OCTOBER 4, 2018

https://images.indianexpress.com/2018/10/kung-fu-2-1.jpg
Kung fu (Source: Wikimedia Commons)

We in India have no record of this prince, but Chinese chronicles of the Shaolin temple tell us this legend.

By Archana Garodia Gupta and Shruti Garodia

In the 5th (or 6th) century AD, a prince lived in South India (perhaps a Pallava?). His brothers conspired against him and took away his throne. This prince then gave up royal life and became a Buddhist monk called Bodhidharma. He went to live with his guru for many years, who commanded him to go north and spread the word of Buddhism. When his teacher died, Bodhidharma dutifully set off, walking right up to China. The legend goes that his nephew, now the king, thoughtfully sent ahead carrier pigeons, asking the people of China to take care of him.

When Bodhidharma finally arrived in China, the people, who had been notified by the pigeons, flocked to hear him. Emperor Wu, who ruled over the southern bit of China, invited Bodhidharma to come to his palace and asked him, “I have built many temples and monasteries, and copied many religious books. What is my (divine) merit?” Cranky as ever, Bodhidharma answered “None whatsoever!”

Bodhidharma then headed off in the direction of the newly established Shaolin Temple. A Chinese general called Sheng, who had won many battles and killed many enemies, started following Bodhidharma around, asking the monk to accept him as his pupil, but was ignored.

https://images.indianexpress.com/2018/10/bodhidharma.jpg
Bodhidharma (Source: Wikimedia Commons)

When they came upon the mighty Yangtse River, Bodhidharma threw a reed in the water, stepped upon it and calmly crossed the river. General Sheng, trying to copy him, threw a bunch of reeds, stepped on them, and sank immediately. Only with great difficulty did he manage to save his own life.

When they reached Shaolin, instead of entering the temple, Bodhidharma went and meditated in a cave-for nine long years! General Sheng sat patiently outside, guarding the monk, and every once in a while, asking to be accepted as his pupil. Bodhidharma never replied. Eventually, the radiance of Bodhidharma’s meditation became so intense that his image was engraved forever on the cave wall.

https://images.indianexpress.com/2018/10/bodhidharma_yo****oshi-1.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons

Bodhidharma finally agreed to come to stay at the Shaolin temple. When General Sheng continued to pester the great monk to accept him as a disciple, after a few years, he said, “Only when we have red snow”. General Sheng, in a brave (and really gruesome!) act, cut off his own left arm, and swung it in the air. The blood flew out, froze and fell as red snow. Bodhidharma finally had to accept General Sheng as a disciple.

Shaolin monks are now famous for their one-handed greeting with the right hand, popularised by the one-armed General Sheng!

https://images.indianexpress.com/2018/10/kalaripayattu.jpg
Kalaripayattu (Source: WIkimedia Commons)

At the Shaolin monastery, Bodhidharma saw that the monks were weak from meditation and fasting. He taught them the martial arts he had learned as a young prince…similar to Kalaripayattu! This gave birth to the famous kung-fu warrior monks of Shaolin!

Bodhidharma started the Dhyan School of Buddhism, which came to be known as Chan in China…and Zen in Japan! Bodhidharma is better known as Damo in China and Daruma in Japan. In fact, the famous papier-mache Daruma doll of Japan (it is considered a good luck charm), is based on Bodhidharma, with its curly beard and large eyes. At the beginning of every New Year, Japanese people burn their old dolls and get new ones. A famous temple in Japan even has a Daruma festival every March, attended by nearly half a million people!

https://images.indianexpress.com/2018/10/daruma.jpg
Daruma doll (Source: Wikimedia Commons)

(For more fun journeys through India’s history, check out the newly released two-volume set, The History of India for Children Vol. 1 and Vol. 2, published by Hachette India, which is now available online and in bookstores across the country.)

GeneChing

05-02-2019, 06:36 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5kM7ojXkAIk7Vv?format=jpg&name=900x900

THREADS
Shi Decheng (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?44742-Shi-Decheng)
Shaolin Special 2019 (SPRING) (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71165-Shaolin-Special-2019-(SPRING)) on Shaolin sub-forum.
Shaolin Special 2019 (SPRING) (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71164-Shaolin-Special-2019-(SPRING)) on Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine & KungFuMagazine.com sub-forum
Luohan Quan (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?55283-Luohan-Quan)
Bodhidharma (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?2128-Bodhidharma)

Djuan

05-27-2019, 01:27 PM

wow, just found this thread. I have a lot to offer in terms of research on the topic of Damo, and tho Im loyal to Shaolin, entirely, I respect this platform, so I'll leave my opinion out and got gather my sources, it's been a while. most information I encountered on Bodhidharma came from my Buddhist study, and research in Chinese/Ku****e/Indian/Dravidian history initially. Then through Shaolin, I was able to draw my own opinion of Damo's origin and purpose, both having much greater significance in world history than suggested.
......and my opinion included (which favors Damo & Shaolin), and the credit given for birthing Kung Fu & Zen, if I throw these factors out,..... Damo, historically, still, is one of, if not the MOST spiritually/humanly influential, and greatest blessing to this planet. THATS ONE FACT WE CAN AGREE ON. (ALSO; That we know existed, and can draw daily use and application from his life and teachings/offerings, that remain mentally, emotionally, and physically relevant and beneficial to this day.)

that said, I'll get my sources and references in order and write my paragraph of insightful history to share and add on to the rest of this post. :)

Amituofu

Djuan

06-25-2019, 10:23 PM

to take up the study at this point, becomes a path of two roads, each of which having several roads spawning from them.
the first, Buddhist scholarship. Most of us are familiar with the philosophy, and or principles when it comes to Buddhism, not so many on the history, and schools, and following branches that led up to Ch'an.
So theres one aspect of study thats going to open up, and becomes a long road. However this road is easy to navigate, is beautiful, and a continual blossoming.

Then there is the second road (block) I came to which is the most annoying when you really start digging, its just plain old world history.
You'd be surprised how much you cant find out about the most important people in any religion, yet political history is usually intact. priorities people. sometime both are obscured , altered or lost in translation.
So researching Damo, becomes an argument in some places, where his validity is called to question, one super figghter guy even argued me down saying Im looking for a kungfu hero, or fantasy , and theres no historical proof to any of Shaolin's claims about Damo, which we know is just frustrated talk of people who know no better, if they had answers they wouldnt be so angry. Most will encounter this argument. The next will be those who profess Damo, for their benefit, so when you get beyond that, where Damo, and Buddha begin to benfit others, they will block you from learning there. An example is how the hindu/brahmin takeover almost permanently ruined the history of Buddha, and the people of India prior to aryan rule, making it hard to find specifics about Guatama Buddhas origins and the Buddhas before him and where they came from, which seems like information we should have lol......anyhow.....people usually do that when they takeover any land, sheesh tho, its a pain. So now we have to put the puzzle back ourselves. I've been studying this for only 20 years, and I've already seen a familiar Buddha nearly EVERYWHERE. go figure.

Anyhow, more important is the teachings, I find peace in knowing what Damo was transmitting, and further more, what the Buddhas transmitted, has been preserved intact for us to still practice. Period. The truth spreads and the true culture of Ch'an from Shaolin is inseparable and still most influential. The accolades and recognition of "being the originator" loses it's luster in the true core of ANY spiritual path, most specifically, however, the Buddhist path. We cant play Arhat, especially with Shaolin Ch'an, you have to put it to practice, and once you do, it inevitably happens, the ego is removed.

Keeping that in mind, I have to acknowledge my/our thirst to understand , as men, to learn, to be students of the Universe in an honest, innocent, unconditional approach. From there, I will humble myself to say, the sutras are beloved, the affect of the Buddha, becoming a Buddha, words cant describe, and the experience is for all already.
.. while as a scholar, I get into history, & would want to know who's who, who came from where, why statues have tantrically repetitive facial features of a specific gene pool, why the teachings follow the path of civilizations in a way that seems almost deliberate, as if the temples were built on purpose.....if these questions become more important, than actualizing your Buddhahood, then drop them. I could sit here and get into heated debates with all willing keyboard warriors who want to argue the origins of Ch'an and Gong Fu, which would lead us to Damo and his origin, its pointless in practice of Ch'an though, exactly pointless. .... we should all be training right now!!!!!

:D

Amituofo

GeneChing

06-26-2019, 09:02 AM

wow, just found this thread.

Glad to see you digging in our archives here, Djuan. That's why we keep them. This forum has been going for over 2 decades now, so there's a lot of content. Enjoy your excavation and feel free to ttt topics that intrigue you, like you have here.

For me, Bodhidharma is more important for what he symbolizes. In general, with religion, it's more about the metaphor than the historical reality.

David Jamieson

06-26-2019, 12:33 PM

Indian?

I heard he was Persian. Not a prince. A Mahayana wanderer.
Here nor there, what there is is what there is.
All we do is add to it through our own practice.

Djuan

06-27-2019, 11:12 PM

Indian?

I heard he was Persian. Not a prince. A Mahayana wanderer.
Here nor there, what there is is what there is.
All we do is add to it through our own practice.

agree,

we can speculate and hypothesize because the story is as such, or we can practice. I choose to practice. Better to empower and live the GongFu, to actualize Buddha, than to just learn the history in intellect. though Buddha said take nothing on face value, then we can apply that to Gong Fu, and meditation, Nirvana etc.....I dont take account of the power of Gong Fu, QiGong, Meditation, Nirvana , on face value, I must practice it to experience it, to know it.

Amituofo

GeneChing

10-11-2019, 07:29 AM

Will DaMo help NaMo and Xi at Mahabalipuram? (http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/columns/s-gurumurthy/2019/oct/11/will-damo-help-namo-and-xi-at-mahabalipuram-2045784.html)
The Pallava prince from Kanchipuram renounced the throne, became a Buddhist monk, known as Bodhi Dharma in India and DaMo in China, almost like how prince Siddhartha became Buddha.
Published: 11th October 2019 04:00 AM | Last Updated: 11th October 2019 04:29 PM

http://images.newindianexpress.com/uploads/user/imagelibrary/2019/10/11/w900X450/modi_xi.jpg
Prime Minister Narendra Modi shakes hands with Chinese President Xi Jinping during his visit in Wuhan China. | PTI
By S Gurumurthy

It is strategic civilisational diplomacy at its symbolic best. Narendra Modi found that his second informal summit with Xi Jinping at Mahabalipuram in 2019 had been fixed 1,500 years ago by a prince of the Pallava dynasty, which ruled Mahabalipuram from Kanchipuram.

The Pallava prince from Kanchipuram renounced the throne, became a Buddhist monk, known as Bodhi Dharma in India and DaMo in China, almost like how prince Siddhartha became Buddha. His guru asked him to go to Zhen Dan — today’s China. Bodhi Dharma, who became India’s first spiritual ambassador to China, also emerged as its chief mentor. Regarded as Buddhaabdara (Buddha’s Avatar), he expounded Zen Buddhism and founded the famous Shaolin Temple in China’s Henan province. Revered as the first Patriarch of China, the rest of the Buddhist world listed him as the 28th in line from Buddha.

Modi is now reviving memories of Bodhi Dharma, to position him as the icon of India’s civilisational outreach to China, which is integral to his overarching strategic civilisational diplomacy. Bodhi Dharma’s foray was not limited to China. Popular as DaMo in China, as Dalma in Korea, Daruma in Japan, Dharmottara in Tibet, with his name echoing in Vietnam too, he ended up as India’s cultural ambassador to most of Asia.

Just as Modi began gradually changing the secular narrative of India into a civilisational narrative within after his historic victory in 2014, he extended it to foreign relations as well. In 2015, he began writing a strategic Hindu-Buddhist civilisational narrative to give thrust to India’s Look East philosophy.

The Mahabalipuram summit, which recalls the 5th century DaMo today, is an important chapter in Modi’s overarching civilisational narrative to handle the relationship with China that was seriously damaged in the late 1950s and early 1960s. So, the Namo-Xi summit should be seen in the backdrop of Modi’s national strategic narrative.

With the rise of radical Islamist terror, particularly the 9/11 attack, Samuel Huntington’s view that the world would become increasingly civilisation conscious, virtually binned the utopian Francis Fukuyama’s prognosis of a world free of conflicts founded on free market and liberal democracy. The politically diverse Western nations began to be seen more as civilisationally Christian, Japan as a civilisation state and China as a civilisation pretending to be a state. But secular India continued to remain orphaned without a civilisational name and a narrative of its own.

Post-Independence India did not attempt to reinstate the national narrative it had lost due to centuries of foreign domination even after it rediscovered it during the freedom movement. Instead, it enjoyed living on borrowed narratives like secularism and socialism. Lost in fake secularism that increasingly rested on vote-bank politics and in the failed socialism, which proved to be a global disaster, India ignored its spiritual and civilisational foundations that would have helped it develop its own national civilisational narrative. India’s distorted secularism undermined its civilisational assets. Result: India, which had become part of the universal notions of secularism and socialism, had nothing special to talk about itself.

In a seminal essay (to mark the 25th anniversary of Huntington’s clash theory) on civilisational exchanges between China and India titled “Civilisational Perspectives in International Relations and Contemporary China-India Relations”, Ravi Dutt Bajpai (Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia) asserts that India and China were both civilisation states but adds, “Although India’s ancient civilisational legacy originates from its Hindu-Buddhist religious beliefs, the constitutional secularism in the Indian polity makes it difficult for the state to flaunt a religious identity.”

Indian intellectualism was even blind to the historical fact that each materialist ideology that succeeded one another and dominated the world for the last couple of centuries increasingly had a shorter shelf life. Colonialism lasted for 200 years. Capitalism 100 years. Communism 50 years.And globalisation has been pronounced dead by its chief proponent The Economist magazine in just 25 years. Our nation of thousands of years of known history has seen these dominant thoughts sprouting, growing and, as Swami Vivekananda said, “vanishing like ripples on the face of waters, living a few hours of exultant and exuberant dominance”.

India’s fate as a civilisational orphan continued even after socialism proved to be a global fiasco and secularism turned fake at home. It continued to adopt the socialist narrative for half a century and later a globalist narrative for a quarter more.

In this period, India saw Confucian China re-emerging out of communist China that violently banished Confucius for half a century. India saw ex-communist China establishing over 1,200 Confucian centres and classrooms the world over to present itself as a Confucian civilisation. It saw communist Russia turning Orthodox Christian, socialist Poland turning Roman Catholic. Yet, it continued with its outdated and borrowed narrative that negated its own spiritual and civilisational foundation, which Mahatma Gandhi in his seminal thesis Hind Swaraj had emphasised as its unifying force. Till Modi came to power, India did not even think of making a draft national narrative for bilateral and multilateral relationship building.

National narrative —an imperative
The world which became obsessed with globalism after the Cold War, recently began rediscovering the need for a national narrative. The idea of a national strategic narrative was felt in the US in 2009. In 2011, the US government and the Woodrow Wilson International Center jointly authored a paper on the national strategic doctrine in 2011. The paper said: “A narrative is a story. A national strategic narrative must be a story that all Americans can understand and identify within their own lives. America’s national story has always see-sawed between exceptionalism and universalism. We think that we are an exceptional nation, but a core part of that exceptionalism is a commitment to universal values — to the equality of all human beings not just within the borders of the United States, but around the world.”

Later, in 2017, came a paper titled “Stories about ourselves: How national narratives influence the diffusion of large-scale energy technologies” by Joint Global Change Research Institute, United States Maryland School of Public Policy, University of Maryland. The paper said, “A national narrative rationalises and is supported by the nation’s identity. The narrative gives citizens an awareness of their common values and characteristics as a nation; it also situates a nation among other nations as unique (at least in part). If successful, the national narrative (is) a source of pride domestically and respect from other nations…. Of course, no nation exhibits unanimity around a single story; instead, ‘we find a polyphony of voices, overlapping and crisscrossing; contradictory and ambiguous; opposing, affirming and negotiating their views of the nation.’”National narrative is no outdated concept. It is very much a contemporary need. Yet the Indian discourse did not attempt a national civilisational and strategic narrative for India, even though the Supreme Court had held as early as in 1995 — which it refused to
review even as late as 2016 — that secular India is compatible in cultural terms with Hindu India.
continued next post

GeneChing

10-11-2019, 07:29 AM

Narendra Modi writes India’s national strategic narrative
Modi’s tryst with Buddha started soon after he became the Prime Minister. He saw Buddha as the civilisational face of India and Buddhism as the most effective bridge to link the culturally Hindu India with the civilisationally Buddhist Asia. Modi has endeavoured to integrate Buddha with India’s Look East doctrine. He saw that Dharma in Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jain traditions in India and Dhamma in diverse Buddhist traditions in Asia linked people of both traditions more intimately than any single or multiple state policy or pact. Cognate civilisations vault over state-erected walls to connect people with people. Modi saw the Hindu-Buddhist civilisational nexus as the most potent people-to-people link, which even the modern and ex-communist states like China could not ignore.

The Prime Minister’s strategic Hindu-Buddhist civilisational diplomacy started with his first visit to Japan in early 2015. Modi quickly roped in Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe into a joint Indo-Japan initiative of “Samvad” — Sanskrit word meaning “dialogue” — through strategic think tanks in Japan, Tokyo Foundation and Japanese Foundation, and the Vivekananda International Foundation in Delhi. And the first Samvad of Hindu-Buddhist nations on the theme of Conflict Avoidance and Environmental Consciousness took place in September 2015. In his video address to the Samvad, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said that the idea of Dharma, which was the foundation of Japan’s rule of law, was India’s gift to Japan — a declaration emotionally more powerful than any economic or political pact.

The Samvad
The year 2015 ended with the Bodh Gaya Declaration to make it the global centre of enlightenment. The Samvad II was held in Myanmar in 2017 and Samvad III in Mongolia in September 2019. The Indian and Japanese prime ministers inaugurated each of the three Samvad meets by direct or video address.
The impact of the Modi-Abe civilisational outreach of Samvad on the Buddhist world is phenomenal. The most leading global Buddhist website, the Buddhist Door Global (BDG), which had said in 2017 that “India’s efforts at Buddhist diplomacy are not easy to accomplish”, did a U-turn in 2019 to accept Samvad as “a burgeoning, informal alliance of Buddhist Asian democracies”, adding that “Modi and his allies have been responsible for a resurgence of Buddhist diplomacy unseen in modern Indian history”. The report concluded, “Words like conflict avoidance and environment consciousness (Samvad’s consistent conference themes) conjure a very specific mode of Buddhist action: one that always leads back to New Delhi’s very unique understanding of transnational Buddhist power.”Undoubtedly Modi has innovated a national civilisational and strategic narrative for India not just for relating to Asia but for relating to the world, by globalising and positioning Indian-Asian Buddha as the icon of his presentation at the UN recently, contrasting Buddha (enlightenment) with Yuddha (war).

As Namo invokes DaMo at Mahabalipuram
Modi’s choice of distant Mahabalipuram for his informal meeting with Xi has an obvious, deep significance and even a deeper message. Can a China that has discarded communism and begun reinstating neo-Confucianism as its national narrative and an India that has discarded the failed socialism and fake secularism and begun re-writing the national narrative in civilisational terms find their common Hindu-Buddhist civilisational roots in Mahabalipuram? Will the spirit of DaMo help Namo and Xi accomplish that will be seen this weekend and in what unfolds thereafter. Namo’s strategy is to find positive answers to such and other questions is manifest in his choice of the venue — DaMo’s Mahabalipuram.

The civilisational link between the peoples of India and China has always been stronger than any government-to-government policy declarations. Modi’s attempt seems to be to awaken the unleveraged civilisational impulses to relate to China whose aggression in 1962 damaged India’s trust in its neighbour. How Modi handled the Doklam issue has obviously convinced the mighty neighbour that India is no more a pushover. Namo is invoking DaMo, the deeper spiritual chord between India and China, to restore mutual trust, which will be the foundation for a stable and trustworthy India-China relationship.

Postscript: Yet another Kanchi connection to China-India relations. The Sage of Kanchi (the Shankaracharya of Kanchi) who lived for 100 years told the writer of this article in the early 1990s that India should settle the border row with China, which the Sage saw as India’s cultural ally. The writer had mentioned this in 2003 to Atal Bihari Vajpayee when as India’s Prime Minister he was going to China. It was then that the NSA-level talks commenced with China for settlement of the border dispute. Whether recalling DaMo by Namo will fulfil the desire of the Kanchi saint remains to be seen.

S Gurumurthy
The author is a commentator on political and economic affairs
Random yet topical

Djuan

11-01-2019, 04:18 PM

📷 Namo Bodhidharma! Happy Dhyana Day! We are observing the annual month of meditation , “Ch'an/Zen Month”. Take some time to sit and meditate daily this month and ground your practice for the following months/years to come. Honoring.... Happy Birthday Damo! (https://tmblr.co/ZXL_Am2loYOm0)
10767

Djuan

11-02-2019, 04:38 PM

"To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature."

10769

Djuan

12-01-2019, 02:50 PM

"To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature."

10769

hoping all of you keep a flourishing and nourishing meditation practice in all that you do and experience!
Amituofo!

GeneChing

12-23-2020, 09:29 AM

Not quite a Buddhist brand name (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64553-Zen-Buddhist-brand-names), but definitely Bodhidharma (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?2128-Bodhidharma)related.

ASICS GEL-LYTE III "Baltic Jewel" Channels Buddhist Energy With Daruma Doll Inspiration (https://hypebeast.com/2020/12/asics-gel-lyte-iii-og-daruma-doll-baltic-jewel-buddhism-bodhidharma)
Paying homage to its Japanese roots.
Footwear
Dec 22, 2020
By Eric Brain

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2020%2F12%2F asics-gel-lyte-iii-og-daruma-doll-baltic-jewel-buddhism-bodhidharma-1.jpeg?q=80&w=1000&cbr=1&fit=max

ASICS pays homage to its Japanese heritage with its latest GEL-LYTE III sneaker, serving a “Baltic Jewel” pair that features inspiration from Daruma dolls.

These traditional Japanese dolls are modeled after Bodhidharma, the founder of Zen, or Ch’an Buddhism. Although the dolls typically appear in red, they can be served in various other bold colors such as the bright teal found on the sneaker above.

No matter what color they’re presented in, a Daruma doll always depicts a bearded man. In ASICS’ sneaker, the black beard seen on the rubberized hangtag has been continued into the sneaker’s design, with patent black leather taking form on the mid-panel branding stripes and heel section.

Elsewhere, gold has been used to highlight areas such as the heel and signature GEL-LYTE III components all around, while perforated white leather on the toe box and mid-panel cuts through the bright colors.

Naturally, the pair is finished with its foot-hugging split tongue construction and a tri-density midsole for immense amounts of comfort and support, all while delivering unrivaled amounts of shock absorption.

Take a look at the ASICS GEL-LYTE III in “Baltic Jewel” above, and pick up a pair for yourself from stockists such as Footpatrol. The pair retails for £105 GBP (approx. $140 USD).

In case you missed it, read up on how New Balance won 2020.

These should be red, not teal.

GeneChing

07-19-2022, 10:25 AM

I didn't know bamboo (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69234-Bamboo) drifiting was a thing beyond Bodhidharma (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?2128-Bodhidharma)

Follow the link for vid

Martial arts fan shows off 'Single-Bamboo Drifting' stunt (https://www.ecns.cn/video/2022-07-19/detail-ihcakxsi6132339.shtml)
2022-07-19 10:52:52Ecns.cnEditor : Luo PanECNS App Download

(ECNS) -- Dressed as a "Swordsman", Pan Haitao stood on a bamboo, drifting on the river through the urban area of Jilin City, Jilin Province on Saturday.

In a red ancient costume with a bamboo hat on his head and a jade pendant dangling on his belt, his performance attracted much attention from tourists.

The 42-year-old martial arts fan recently made a stir online because of his martial arts skill shown in a video of crossing the Songhua River, which is more than 500 meters wide.

Pan said the skill he mastered is called "Single-Bamboo Drifting", a national intangible cultural heritage, and a folk stunt traditionally performed by various people inhabiting the Chishui River Basin in Guizhou Province. The bamboo for drifting across the river which is 8 meters in length, about 15 centimeters in diameter, and about 35-40 kilograms in weight, is often placed in the water along the riverbank of the Songhua River.

Pan said that the reason why he chooses to practice "Single-Bamboo Drifting" is that he wants to realize his martial arts dream, a dream he has had since childhood.

Pan is both a businessman and a martial arts fan, with a particular interest in watching Hong Kong martial arts movies. He also pushed himself to lose 10 kilograms for better performance.

Pan said it's hard to maintain balance and sustain physical strength while standing on the bamboo for drifting. The drifting is highly unstable because of the great fluidity of the Songhua River. Also, as a fan of winter swimming and a good swimmer, he rapidly mastered the skills of "Single-Bamboo Drifting". Even so, he has fallen off the bamboo pole and got bumps and bruises time and again in the last two years, but he has never changed his mind to learn and pass on the skills of "Single-Bamboo Drifting".