We Will Never Evolve As A People..

[DarkKnight]

...unless we turn our backs on organized religion.
Think of the horrific death toll that Christianity, Islam and Every other major religious faction has imposed on our world. Our growth as a planet is going to be based on logical ethics that are grounded in reason and compassion.
Not on some fairy-tale like member's only club that draws a distict line between the 'us'es and the them's'. It's time we denounce our petty superstitions in liu of a path of personal discovery. As scholar-warriors we look for our answers within. Not to some stoic, disinterested god-head that won't or can't show him/her/it self. Religion was originally created to explain the un-explainable. However, once the leaders realized how easily it was to manipulate the mindless masses under the false veil of relgion, it quickly became the tool of tyrants, conartists and evil men. If there really was a cosmic battle between good and evil, the greastest ploy that evil can ever play, would be the advent on organized religio

[Ryu]

:rolleyes:
Oh please.

For the last time, stop blaming religion for the idiocy of people. There are plenty of "organized religion" goers who are not fanatics, not intolerant, not unscientific, and most of all not killing people in "holy wars".

I honestly think we will never evolve as a people unless we stop these petty "extreme" views one way or the other, and instead start trying to rationally understand things from many angles.

I'm so sick of the "all or nothing" attitude.
It NEVER works. Quit generalizing people.

Ryu

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Chang Style Novice]

Generalizations are bad. In fact, the only thing worse than a generalization is a bigot, or a Buddhist.

_______________________
Powered by NymphoPop

[Ryu]

Doh!

Foiled again.

:)

http://www.jkdu.co.za/pics/logos/jkduhpma1.gif


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Snake]

If we weren't fighting over religion, it would be something else, like who owns a certain piece of land, or who has the rights to a certain resource. Poltics, greed, and a number of other categories play into reasons why we wage war on each other. I'm no religious zealot by any means, in fact, the opposite, but this is over simplifing and placing blame in the wrong area. Human nature has more to blame than anything else.

Snake

[Chang Style Novice]

I'm glad to see that I don't have to post a smiley for folks to get my jokes around here.

Even esoteric jokes.

_______________________
Powered by NymphoPop

[wufupaul]

I agree with what you say, Dark, but it's personal. I personally have developed my own way of life, and it works for me. Some people follow other's way's of life. Is it wrong? No. Just different. If it works for some, then they should use it. However, I have seen more evidence that it doesn't work for the masses, but, that's just my opinion. :p

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

[qeySuS]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/despair-poster-idiocy.jpg

what the poster says :)

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

if people would just worship me none of this would matter.

where's my beer?

[nightair]

I think that the U.N. is going to try to outlaw religeon. That is when the end will come...

DOH!!

[origenx]

Dark-knight - I agree, but particularly with Middle-Eastern Judeo-Christian religions (cults). Because they in particular are built upon cults of personality and childish mind games using bribery and scare tactics.

My real problem is with WORSHIP itself. Fact is - worshipping a prophet or diety won't make YOU any better, folks! The best way to honor someone is rather by honoring the ideals and principles that made them honorable, not sucking their dead c*cks. Not to say that these belief systems are completely bad (even the Santa Claus white lie does some good), but WORSHIPPING in itself does nothing to improve YOURself or advance YOU spiritually. Any gain you might get would only be reliant on whose *ss you're kissing. I.e. - who will get better in martial arts - the student who actually practices or the student who simply kisses his master's *ss? So, these adult fairy tales are misguided and systematically flawed in my opinion!

As a rule of thumb, a "good" "religion" should encourage a lot of self-examination, self-improvement, self-growth, mind-expansion and getting in spiritual touch with yourself and ourself (aka "God," the universe,). And by doing so, you will naturally eliminate desires, not merely suppress them. And its motive should be to empower and enlighten the follower, not bond them into slavery to the church. Otherwise, it's just an alien power tool to divide, conquer and control the masses:
http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.asp?ArticleID=29]http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.asp?ArticleID=29

[Budokan]

I worship pu$. Does that make me a bad guy?

K. Mark Hoover

[Aramus]

I agree with snake. To use religion as a scape goat for war is an oversimplification. People and governments fight over color, creed, oil, food, land, money, etc.
From what I understand from the classes I have taken, most religions view murder as a sin or "bad". However, people rationalize that it is OK to do so when....
What separates us is what we used to clasify ourselves, a white christian low class male, a hispanic bahai upper class woman, etc. If we have no race, no color and accept people as they are, we would have more time to evolve and concentrate on what is important. Of course, I could be generalizing as well.
Anyone see the movie Bulworth?
It talks about divisions.

[KC Elbows]

I tend to agree that war would not end, or even decrease in frequency, with an end to organized religion. However, I also beleive that the organized side of religion does possess exactly the sort of problems that contribute to war, cheif among them being the over-standardization of viewpoint. This is god, this is what god is about, any other view is not right. I'm not saying that members of an organized religion have standardized views on their religion, I'm saying that they at least have to pretend to have those views to get along with their fellow churchgoers.

However, take away the churches, and you still have the same problem, as we are the ones who create the problems. I tend to think we're hard wired to occassionally smack each other into the stone age, just to keep things from becoming stagnant. Without the churches, it would still be happening in business, or some other forum.

****, no time to finish this post. Lunch is over. Sorry if it is filled with glaring flaws, I didn't have time to check it.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

[DelicateSound]

The problem isn't religion as an institution, it is extremism. Religion is beng used as an excuse for violence. The problem is that people believe in religion (in this case Muslim faith) so blindly that they are willing to do anything for it. Like WW2 Japanese suicide pilots. The leaders of the countries involved are brainwashing the populous into this blind faith.

I bet if I could convince 100 people to worship a hunk of Wensleydale as much as the Taliban have made some Afghans worship the Korah (?) then I could probably get them to die for it. The difference is that its far easier to get people believing in God than in Wensleydale. So its not the object of the obsession that's at fault, it's the act of obsession itself.

He is the Grand Ultimate S h i t

[DelicateSound]

It seems that Origenx made that point way before me. I just made the same point with a cheese comparison. Sorry, my bad.... :(

He is the Grand Ultimate S h i t

[NorthernMantis]

Ryu is correct, blame the people not the religion (especially Christianity).Not everyone follows it 100% true and true since it obviously teaches the opposite of what Drakknight suggested.

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

[KC Elbows]

On the worshipping "110 per cent true", I think that concept is an example of the problem. Worshipping the christian way is not completely different than kung fu, as there are thousands of different styles of worship, but they are all christianity. With a holy book the size of the bible, no one could master every element of the teachings from it, only a small number that they decide to focus upon. Therefore, which is true, catholicism, protestantism, baptism, etc.? If none of the above is the answer, whose criterion are we using to refute their claim to be christian? Does that group or person follow every doctrine/lesson/guide that is in the bible? How?

I think it is the ultimate cop out when a group discounts their worst element by saying "They're not one of us". There are bad christians, and yes, they are christians, just bad ones. Just like there are bad martial artists, chefs, encyclopedia salesmen, whatever. That sort of logic didn't work for the nazis, it shouldn't work for us.

Just had to comment on the "true religion" thing. It sort of assumes a standard that cannot exist, especially in religion.

[origenx]

But what if a religion claims that it is the ONLY way and that all others are Satanic? Or that war can be waged upon non-believers (infidels)? Isn't such cultish division into "us" vs "them" the first step to war? Sorry, I just don't buy that all religions are the same and therefore wholly unaccountable for the actions of their extremist followers.

Again, some religions practice worship, others hold individuals responsible for their own spiritual growth and advancement and help them to systematically achieve that. Some claim that all other methods are demonic and false, others simply allow you to judge for yourself (with the confidence that the when the truth is tested against others, it will only become more obvious in comparison). Those are some HUGE differences right there. And it's easy to see how some such standpoints may provoke war easier than others.

For example, the worst thing I can think that an "extreme" Buddhist has done is fast or set himself on fire in protest. Extreme Taoists might simply detach from society and live a hermit's life in the mountains. But neither wages "Holy War" on their "spiritual rivals." So, yes, it's not just religious extremists, the specific religions themselves are partially at fault as well...

PS - It's also curious how when a "cult" has an incident (or alleged incidents like Falun Gong), it's immediately and wholly blamed on the cult. But when a mainstream religion (cult) causes an incident, it's only blamed on its "extremist" followers, not the religion itself. Hmmm, something of a double-standard there

[Mr. Nemo]

For some reason, this thread reminds me of a jimi hendrix song.

[Kung Lek]

Ban religion? That's communism. Or Marxism at least.

Religion serves a purpose. It acts as a path to finding ones own spirituality and as well provides community through the church, or temple, or mosque, or whatever meeting place it uses for it's congregations to come and share their common beliefs.

Cults of personality are the greater problem. These spring forth from the robes of genuine religion with those who would interpret the teachings of a given religion to suit their own desires and ambition.

People like bin Laden who dress as a muslim and declare that they act for god in the most inhuman of ways, or Jerry Falwell who shows no tolerance and acceptance for his fellow humans lest they be of his church and faith. Both on the spectrum, doesn't matter which end. One acts through outright violence and the other takes action in passive violence.

The lessons of the great teachers are often misinterpreted by their followers.
But the great lesson of all religions is peace and love will be yours if you look within yourself where they already reside. Let those two wash away your hate and resentment and you will be ok. Help others to find them in themselves also, then move along and continue.

These men who wrap themselves in religion to push their personal agendas are what must be hurdled over by those who believe in the spirituality of man and god.

This is how we will be able to move on and better ourselves as a whole. At the apex, it is the same message. Many fail to hear or see the message that religion can bring.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[KC Elbows]

I think that part of the problem is that people sacrifice what is holy for what is religious. They begin to tread a path of edicts and rules, and fall short of the acheivements of the holy people who served as the foundation for the systems of edicts and rules IMHO.