Found a KF sparring clip...

[Suntzu]

u be the judge...*shrug* (http://www.wahnam.com/video/videos/ShaolinWahnamInstitute03.wmv)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i have seen worse.

to sum it up as briefly as possible i saw some solid stuff mixed in with some bad habbits learned from a little too much patty cake.

[Daelomin]

Looked more like a demonstration or some sort of two man form. Not like actual sparring.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

watching it a couple more times i'd have to say all and all not bad. i dont want to sound like a mma troll, but my main complaint is that they both seem to be sparring like they have never ever been taken down before ... a little too much leaning back ... and the hits didnt look real solid but i also know they werent trying to kill eachother. on the up they were both fluent, kept a lot tighter than i see most kf guys when in close, and seemed to have pretty solid bases. i just wonder how they might fair against a brute coming in like they just dont give a fu ck.

[Suntzu]

on the site it said it wasn't prearranged… but it does look cooperative tho… the cry for KF sparring went out… this is what I stumbled upon… and they would get eaten up by some leg kicks…
i just wonder how they might fair against a brute coming in like they just dont give a fu ck. the world may never know...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

lol ... i was being nice cause i thought there might be some small chance that it was you or someone you knew. from your posts i expected much more from you, but didnt want to insult you just in case.

i have still seen worse though.

[Suntzu]

I have DONE worse… and think u for not obliterating my good good name…

[lkfmdc]

sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but this is a pre arranged sparring set, a FORM....

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i have done worse too.

but it should have definately looked 100 times better if it was setup. i dont know how i look sparring, but before all the beer my buddies and i could have made a form or self created fight clip that put that to shame. in fact we have, but i still cant find the video of the best one we ever did ... worked on it for months. because of that fight scene alone i could hit moving targets with a spinning tail whip.

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, defenetly a twoman set, looks like intermediate level students to me.

[Suntzu]

well than… the search continues…

[Royal Dragon]

I gave up on the search. I'm going to wait till I can get into a Kuo Shou, and film myself, or other competitors.

[dezhen2001]

actually guys those guys (if you mean the tall guy with ponytail and the short dude) teach in the UK under wong kiew kit. been training 2 1/2 years max - a bit controversial :)

RD: you may remember them from docs forum as Dan and Ronan ;)

dawood

[Royal Dragon]

been training 2 1/2 years max

Reply]
Told ya they were intermediate students.

I do sort of remeber them form Docs Old forium...I think?

[joedoe]

I thought even for a 2 man form it was kinda average.

[DragonzRage]

Whatever it was...non contact sparring or two man form set...it looked pretty pathetic to me. And I'm not just trying to dump on kung fu either. I have actually seen in person traditional kung fu and karate guys spar/fight much better than that.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"it looked pretty pathetic to me."

yeah but we really have seen much much worse posted on the forums. plus i think those guys would do fine if they just trained a little different. they appeared to have some of the basics down ok. i just dont want to rip on them too hard cause i know i have looked like that and worse before i seperated the fluff from the stuff.

[wingchunalex]

I really liked the sparring!!!

Thats how I think sparring should be done most of the time. it shouldn't be warp speed and crazy.

The way they sparred in that clip both people got to acctually practice applying their technique, they actually looked like they were doing kung fu. I think sparring like this is needed more in the martial arts. its non-competitive, its just two people trying to apply their techniques not "get in on eachother"

I would love it if sparring at tournaments was like that, where a hung gar person looks like they do hung gar, and a shaolin person looks like they do shaolin, and mantis looks lik mantis. It would be great if people didn't just go crazy.

I wish I saw more wing chun people sparring like that instead of shoving matches and trying to knock the other guys head off. I mean thats what sparring is right, light contact with controled technique. I'm a wing chun guy so thats what i've seen the most of.

[joedoe]

Yeah, but if you aren't actually trying to contact the target (even if it is only to touch the target) then does it count as sparring?

[ShaolinWahnamUK]

Interesting responses.

For those who are interested to know it was not a 2 man set. The clip linked at the start of the post is free sparring, which in our school is only used to confirm combat efficiency not to train it. The sparring was between students, not masters as some people mistakenly have assumed on other forums.

The clip itself is quite old; here is the description from the website:

"Shaolin Wahnam Institute Old Free Sparring Video: Free sparring between Lek Poh and Kok San, two of Grandmaster Wong's students in Malaysia. The video was taken more than 20 years ago> None of the movements were pre-arranged.
Notice that the patterns used by Shaolin Wahnam students now in sparring are similar to what were used more than 20 years ago. "

And you think I am a bit controversial do you Dave ? :)

I would agree there aren’t many out there who train what and how we do, let alone get the benefits, but there are a lot of armchair warriors out there who love to pass judgement on us. My advice to them is come to a class, train with us and then see how they feel. Interestingly, most choose not to come out from behind their keyboard, those that do really are very pleasantly surprised.

For those interested there are two other clips, one showing a 2 man set, and one showing some more recent stuff on the website (link below)

More videos coming soon.

Dan Hartwright
Shaolin Wahnam Institute UK
Dan@Wahnam.com
Http://www.wahnam.com
Http://www.wahnam.com/forum/

[lkfmdc]

you can claim whatever you want, no way in heck that was free sparring....

[dezhen2001]

Dan - some of the guys here read russbo as well or used to when it was the old forum. i didnt look at the clip as im still on 28.8k but assumed it was the one shouwing you guys and the older ones :)

dave

[Dark Knight]

I agree with lkfmdc, that was not free sparring. The two individuals were allowing the other to work techniques slowly and without resistance. The hads were left out too long (an indication of a willing partner) and the stances are begging for a front leg sweep.

An agressive fighter would have walked through that set with out any trouble. After 2 1/2 years of training no one would fight like that in free sparring. That was a training session between two willing partners. Im sure its not pre arranged movements, just two willing partners allowing the other to work.

"The clip linked at the start of the post is free sparring, which in our school is only used to confirm combat efficiency not to train it."

Your definition of free sparring is still a good training tool, but its not the same definition as everyone elses.

"I would agree there aren’t many out there who train what and how we do, let alone get the benefits"

Its a good training tool, but still not free sparring in the sense of what most consider free sparring.

Throw a set of gloves with open hands on them, and let them fight with contact, grabs, traps, sweep... and see the change.

"My advice to them is come to a class, train with us and then see how they feel. Interestingly, most choose not to come out from behind their keyboard"

Fly me over, I'd love to see the training method. These videos are not a good representation.

[norther practitioner]

Free sparring at like 50, 75% maybe.

[Shuul Vis]

that could have been real. me and GDA have looked like that occasionally. when you spar people of the same school/style you know what to expect and so you can throw out alot of stuff that looks pre arranged but isnt.

[norther practitioner]

True, very true, however, there just seems that there isn't too much power behind a lot of the moves.

[Dark Knight]

"True, very true, however, there just seems that there isn't too much power behind a lot of the moves."

Even at light power, it is till letting the opponent work his information, its not free sparring.

[norther practitioner]

Free sparring just meaning sparring, not set sparring.
Agreed I usually use "free sparring" with 100% all out type stuff.

[Dark Knight]

I went to the site and toured around. It was pretty interesting. But I will comment on one area, and that is sparring.

Fighting is like many things, riding a bike, driving a car, sex... inoder to get better at it you have to do it.

Forms, drills, padwork, techniques and sparring are a big circle around fighting. Each one is important in your training. With sparring you learn speed, timing, disatnce and many other aspects that can come from alive training.

Unless you fight someone who is resisting you, you will not know how to react against them. Alive training gives you the opportunity to get a feel for what its like to try the traps, see what works, what doesnt and what hurts. Even at a light contact you know the consequences of not being able to block or move out of the way.

Putting on a set of gloves and pads allows you the closest you can get to actual combat. Fighting different people lets you know that what works on one may not work on another. I see a lot of people who have great theory, but have never put it to use (My favorites are the ones who say when a grappler shoots in for a takedown they would strike him on the way in, sounds easy). Fighting your students is not reality training, you need to find someone better than you inorder to progress. I have fought hundreds of students and have a great fighting record. :)

I have seen videos of people who have their students attack like a kickboxer/grappler/tkd... but until you fight a real one, its still not real.

There are many ways of training, but if you do not have alive training in your cirriculum, your missing out on a lot of lessons (The best ones are painful ones)

[diego]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
I went to the site and toured around. It was pretty interesting. But I will comment on one area, and that is sparring.

Fighting is like many things, riding a bike, driving a car, sex... inoder to get better at it you have to do it.

Forms, drills, padwork, techniques and sparring are a big circle around fighting. Each one is important in your training. With sparring you learn speed, timing, disatnce and many other aspects that can come from alive training.

Unless you fight someone who is resisting you, you will not know how to react against them. Alive training gives you the opportunity to get a feel for what its like to try the traps, see what works, what doesnt and what hurts. Even at a light contact you know the consequences of not being able to block or move out of the way.

Putting on a set of gloves and pads allows you the closest you can get to actual combat. Fighting different people lets you know that what works on one may not work on another. I see a lot of people who have great theory, but have never put it to use (My favorites are the ones who say when a grappler shoots in for a takedown they would strike him on the way in, sounds easy). Fighting your students is not reality training, you need to find someone better than you inorder to progress. I have fought hundreds of students and have a great fighting record. :)

I have seen videos of people who have their students attack like a kickboxer/grappler/tkd... but until you fight a real one, its still not real.

There are many ways of training, but if you do not have alive training in your cirriculum, your missing out on a lot of lessons (The best ones are painful ones)

Good post!.

[Dark Knight]

I would have thought I could have gotten a little more feedback from others.

I have met many instructors that make their students wait 2 years before sparring. Some wait a couple months.

How long did most of you here wait before sparring? And why that length of time.

[Suntzu]

Kuoshu- 2 months… san shou- 1st day… Why?*shrug*

[norther practitioner]

To eliminate the forming of bad habits. Sometimes it is easier to get a new horse rather than get rid of the bad habits of the old one.

[Archangel]

Boxing - 5 training sessions before sparring

Wrestling - 1st day

BJJ - 2nd class


In grappling it is relatively easy to begin sparring right away, you can tap or just flow with the technique to avoid injury. Striking arts will take a little more time because striking is a lot harder on your body and generally there is a greater risk for injury.

Sparring is absolutely neccassary right away. It showed my coaches and trainers what my strengths and weaknesses were and provided a foundation to how I would train. For example, when I boxed my coach noticed that I had really quich reflexes but not that much power. He encouraged me to work on my heavy bag but he trained me to fight as a counter puncher as that was my natural style.

[guohuen]

Prearranged set. One and a half to two and a half yrs. training. Poor to fair students sounds about right to me.

[ShaolinWahnamUK]

Although I do not want to be drawn into a discussion here about what the clip is and is not, (I have already explained the clip) those who are interested in understanding why I said in our school free sparring is only used to confirm combat efficiency, not train it, I would point you to the following thread - http://www.wahnam.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=522 – where there is a breakdown of combat training in the Shaolin Arts and the methodology used in out school.

Thank you for your opinions, people’s responses and attitudes have been interesting to say the least. :)

Regards,

Dan Hartwright

Shaolin Wahnam Institute
Dan@Wahnam.com
http://www.wahnam.com
http://www.wahnam.com/forum/

[dezhen2001]

are you trying to compete with Docs old forum with the black background :D

dawood

[lkfmdc]

- "Although I do not want to be drawn into a discussion here about what the clip is and is not"-

And why precisely not? Because you are claiming it is something it is not and perhaps might get caught up in that?

- "(I have already explained the clip)" -

And more than a few of us called your explanation horse hockey. It's a two man set, PRE ARRANGED, not sparring. And clearly so, why even try and pass it off as something it is not?

- "blah blah ....where there is a breakdown of combat training in the Shaolin Arts and the methodology used in out school' --

"Shaolin Ars" as if they were ever a unified method?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

there is merrit to what shuul said as we have looked similar .... maybe even identical back in highschool ... due to sparring eachother for years and knowing a lot of the same stuff.

however, if people have recognized it as a two man set they have trained .....

[Dark Knight]

Dan

again thats not free sparring, its allowing your opponent to work his information. We call it a drill or a two man set.

I noticed on your site that you said you have fought people in other styles. I dont believe you ever fought anyone with any skills. If you consider that clip to be a demonstartion of combat efficency, and you fight like that, a skilled fighter is going to abuse you.

I know that comment sounds disrespectfull and I dont mean it that way. But its a rality.

I have fought hundreds of people from point to full contact, kickboxers and grapplers. Its an eye opener, especially if you can find people will skill and knowledge.

While Im sure you teach effective material, without alive training its not going to be effective, and that clip is an example of it. If you are telling your students that that is an example of effective combat, you are setting them up for a beating.

Again I would love the opportunity to train with you, but i am on a continent across the ocean, and I say this not as a challenge but I would love the opportunity to learn what you have to offer.

And lastly I reccomend you add some reality training to your cirriculum. Buy some gloves.

[Dark Knight]

I was reading the thread on your site on grappling. I cannot believe you guys actually belive you can overcome these fighters with a tigers claw. If you can you need to enter and start earning a ton of money.

Also I cannot believe you would think the competitors in UFC cannot strike. Mo Smith was a kick boxer before UFC, he submitted Tank Abbot from the abuse of his kicks alone. Mo trains many fighters right now. All of them are working hard on striking skills. And all the competitors are doing the same.

You have closed your mind to avoid a reality. And you are doing your students a disservice by not getting more information.

We are in the information age, also people have alot of access to other martial arts righht in their own home towns. People work out with others and can see for themselves what is true and what is not.

If you are trying to tell your students that MMA fighters cannot strike, then they walk down to the local MMA school and the instructor tells them they specialize in BJJ and MT, they will lose respect for you.

BJJ, Judo MMA Kickboxing... are not the end all of martial arts. But trying to tell your students that your style is superior with information that is in left field not only hurts your school but the rest of CMA, when an ex student leaves and goes to a Kickboxing school, all they will remember is being misled.

The CMA have alot to offer, lets not turn people off.

Ref thread:
http://www.wahnam.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=551&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

[Suntzu]

reference Matt Thornton and Blauer articles...
read a lil of that thread... Ooooohhhh i got something to say but right now i'm going to lunch...

[fa_jing]

About the clip: good "light" sparring.

[Dark Knight]

It is representative of confirming combat efficiency

[Suntzu]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
It is representative of confirming combat efficiency efficiency Mmmmmaybe... effectiveness :confused: hmmmm...

[Dark Knight]

BTW, that is Dan's quote, not mine

[Suntzu]

i know...

OK I sat here eating my BK(I know, but they make good cookies) reading that whole discussion… and I'm not saying a word… I'm too thru with those discussion… that one and why I think Jay-Z is a bum… I cant have those back and forths anymore… plus my training buddy posts on that forum and he handled things well enuff...


on second thot...Ohhhh Boy.... (http://www.wahnam.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=552)
highlight..." But bigger than me or not , what is to stop me using a crane beak to strike him sharply in the head as he tries to tackle me to the ground ? Even the largest opponent can be killed by a devastating blow ( even without internal force ) to the head ."

[lkfmdc]

if real kung fu people fought in the UFC, there would be deaths, as they would blow up opponents with Chi blasts at 30 yards...


LMAO :p

[shaolin kungfu]

that burrito i had earlier is giving some mighty powerful chi blasts. They could definitely knock out any of the ufc fighters

[dezhen2001]

Suntzu: i prefer the MacD ice cream or donuts :D

interesting article you linked on the wahnam forum, i know form personal experience its not so easy, but thats just me :)

dawood

[Shaolin-Do]

Lol... theres no "one technique" to stop grappling... An experienced grappler is difficult to deal with at best, But I cant honestly say Ive tried striking Vs. Grappling... I tend to keep the trainings seprate.
McD's should serve breakfast all day. :)

[shaolin kungfu]

McD's should serve breakfast all day.

Hell yeah!

[dezhen2001]

mmmm... pancakes and maple syrup :p

well i remember even when i was in a "real" fight, a big guy rushed me and even though i hit him on the side of the jaw with my palm, his momentum managed to make me fall down... my footwork wasnt good enough then :)

But thankfully he was a little stunned coz of my hit and i managed to get up and away :)

dawood

[Dark Knight]

..." But bigger than me or not , what is to stop me using a crane beak to strike him sharply in the head as he tries to tackle me to the ground ? Even the largest opponent can be killed by a devastating blow ( even without internal force ) to the head ."


Comments like this kill me, Im not sure what is worse, that he would say this, or that he believes this.

[dezhen2001]

well theres no guarantee it WONT happen... so Even the largest opponent CAN be killed by a devastating blow

guess it just depends on a lot of outside factors and luck :) personally i like to run away or whimper on the ground lol

dawood

[dezhen2001]

also not to defend the guys, im sure Dan and whoever can do it more than me... but the guy DOES say . I am not trying to say that I would beat any of them myself . I am still a beginner and find those hulking beast machines to be quite scary . But bigger than me or not , what is to stop me using a crane beak to strike him sharply in the head as he tries to tackle me to the ground ? ...... Even as a beginner I would never expose myself like I have seen on UFC . It is like giving your opponent an advantage before you even start fighting .

so its just a beginner :)

havent read the rest of the thread will look now though.

dawood

[Dark Knight]

Its not Dan that is making the post on their site but another instructor. But here is an example of their belife

"In fact, I have long had the idea of entering the Olympics in order to win a gold medal in Tae Kwon Do (using Shaolin Kungfu, of course). This is not a pipe dream. I honestly believe I could win (or at least medal) if I set my mind to it.

The question is, why do it? The only answer I can come up with is -- just for kicks. "

And

"The reason shooters and grapplers don't worry about such things is because they have never fought someone with such internal force. They are prepared to take a normal hit on the way in. They don't mind taking punches on the ground because they aren't as powerful. Unfortunately, all of this goes out the window when dealing with internal force.

Sorry folks, but attempting a shoot or a tackle on an internal master is a really bad idea. Unless your opponent is compassionate, it is suicide."

While I am sure and internal master hits hard, the fighters at NHB events are top fighters and strikers. If it was that easy, all they need to do is stop by an event on the way home, KO all the challengers and go home with an easy BIG paycheck. And make martial arts history showing the world the truth.

[dezhen2001]

If it was that easy, all they need to do is stop by an event on the way home, KO all the challengers and go home with an easy BIG paycheck. And make martial arts history showing the world the truth. LOL! i could just imagine that happening! LMAO! :D

i was just commenting that it was someone who said they were a beginner who said the original quote thats all - i know from my own experiences that lots of people hit hard :)

dawood

[Dark Knight]

And...............


"I'll note that I recently defeated another exponent in grappling by using this skill. He had me in the mounted position (for those of us who do not speak ju-jitsu, he had me just about defeated), when I remember Sifu Wong's book and just grabbed his throat. The fight ended there and no one was hurt. That's what I mean by efficiency and compassion!"

rrrriiiigggghhhhttt

[Dark Knight]

A different kind of sparring. A marine challanged by some guy.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mcray/_wsn/fightonecomplete.WMV

[lkfmdc]

- ""I'll note that I recently defeated another exponent in grappling by using this skill. He had me in the mounted position (for those of us who do not speak ju-jitsu, he had me just about defeated), when I remember Sifu Wong's book and just grabbed his throat. The fight ended there and no one was hurt. That's what I mean by efficiency and compassion!" -

Yeah, right, anyone with more than an hour's BJJ knows what to do when an idiot reaches up to grab the throat, and BIG HINT, it isnt giving up....

Retarded posts like this give TCMA a really bad name

[Banjo]

I wonder how WahNam will reply

[norther practitioner]

What was that Karate guy doing... How many times did he turn his back in that 25 second clip...like 2 or 3.... and when he was grabbed from the back he did nothing.....

Ok rant over. I've froze up once when sparring a mma guy... then did much better after getting thrown twice.

[norther practitioner]

I've choked some dude once when he tackled me, but he definitely didn't have any training. Dumbarse wouldn't get off of me, first time I've connected a punch from the ground that had any singnificant power.

[Dark Knight]

I wonder how WahNam will reply

He won't, Its easier to deny something than go out and find out. Go back to the thread and the instructor on it talks about how it is wrong to cross train because the system is complete.

He desperatly wants everyone to think he is a great fighter and you can see from the post his ego is huge.

[Shaolin-Do]

funny marine clip.
That karate dude gets taken down like a rookie biotch, exactly why its good to know grappling :)
Didnt seem very impressive with the striking either.....
and i think thats some seriously funny sh!t that these fu ckin morons think that a tiger claw is the ultimate move to defeat a grappler... Sorry dude, but if thats your counter, when a grappler takes you down your toast.
bahahaha
Who made all of these quotes?

[ShifuBinks]

I was debating with those cats how kung fu would hold up against MMA, but I didn't really know what a tiger claw was so I couldn't really disporve them. I am not surprised if it's some dream. Kung fu people seem to talk a lot, but they seem to be confusing the way they wish things were with the way things are. Then they point to some competition where the Mantis Boy won first place in Taiwan's biggest tournament, but wait a minute, he was only fighting other kung fu guys. Funny how they could use kung fu in these competitions but not in UFC. All these reasons why they don't compete are kung fu jargon for "I'm a megawuss." If I hear one more word about how great kung fu is and how bad MMA is out of anyone's mouth from someone who can't fight I am going to put my foot in it.

[ShifuBinks]

Enjoy. Looks like some competition: sparring and some forms

http://www.bakshaolineagleclaw.com/evergreen/sg_video_gallery.htm

[Jowbacca]

Kung Fu is the originator and the greatest.
You kickboxy San Shou weenies are just as bad as those limp wristed MMA guys.

You bounce around like TKD kick monkees and all that sweating makes you smell like a MMA guy oops, I mean a gorilla.

You don't know the true techniques, as they would make your spleen pop. Of course all true traditionalists are masters of the spleen pop...we just errr choose not to use it at our tournaments.

:rolleyes: ;) :D :p

I shoulda just hit up the gym last saturday, seriously.
Got such a bad taste in my mouth, i think I need some refreshing punches to eat.

[Suntzu]

Good troll…… 9.865

[ShifuBinks]

Originator, agreed. Great, agreed. Does that mean everything else stinks? No, just you Chewie. I know you can fight, so its cool, but these cats at my dojo have an answer to everything and everyone else is stupid. It is not cool, however, that you also had to make a Star Wars based name, everyone knows Jar Jar was in Star Wars one whereas Chewie didn't appear until Star Wars 4: A New Hope. So you are clearly copying off me. Its not easy being a CGI character and martial artist, so please, show some respect.

[Suntzu]

Actually he shows up in 3…
:p

[ShifuBinks]

Those kung fu cats have an answer to everything...SW3 isn't even out yet...how the sh*t would he know?

[Jowbacca]

HE'S RELATED TO JAR JAR!!!!
GET HIM!!!!

I feel yah man. Lots of others do too. Starting to realize that the other side's mostly dissin the bad stuff, and not really throwin the baby out with the bath water. We can chat bout it later.

I think Rahsaan's workin with AfroTiger's Peeps* and getting some ninja-like infiltration into Hollywood.

My Metachloreans are itching.



* - Copyright ©2000, 2001 Suntzu Corporation

[ShifuBinks]

You feel me? :eek:
Is this Brian Gray? :o
Lots of others do too? I must have had too much to drink the other night.
Nice headband guy, BTW you should have thought of the consequences of learning iron palm before you started, then you wouldn't have to do this to me.:(

[Suntzu]

:D @ Binks calling ME a kung fu guy...

:D @ Suntzu Corp...

See... (http://movies.yahoo.com/news/fc?d=tmpl&cf=fc&in=Entertainment&cat=star_wars) :p

[MasterKiller]

It is not cool, however, that you also had to make a Star Wars based name, everyone knows Jar Jar was in Star Wars one whereas Chewie didn't appear until Star Wars 4: A New Hope. So you are clearly copying off me. Its not easy being a CGI character and martial artist, so please, show some respect.

Technically, Jowbacca is derivitive of the name Lowbaca, who is Chewie's son, and isn't born until years after the Battle fo Endor (Return of the Jedi). Chewie is going to be in EP III, as confirmed by Lucas himself, and seeing as how Chewie was 200 or so around the time of the Battle of Yavin (A New Hope), this is plausible.

Jar-Jar, on the other hand, handed the reigns of power over to Palpatine in Attack of the Clones, which means he is indirectly responsible for the fall of the Republic, which forces Chewie into slavery, so he can be rescued by Han Solo years later in the Kessel spice mines.

Thus, without Jar-Jar, Chewie would not have been a rebel, and would not have met his woman, and would not have had a son.

Therefore, ShifuBinks is Jowbacca's grandpa, once removed.

[ShifuBinks]

Shoot man I didn't know any of that stuff. Chewie has relatives? Is this going to be in SW3?
BTW....someone please get this walking carpet out of my way.

[MasterKiller]

Chewie's relatives are in the New Jedi Order book series. I think Lowbaca is one of Luke's padawans. This all takes place 10 years after EP VI (Return of the Jedi), so I doubt any mention will make it into EP III.

Chewie himself is the only returning member from EP IV (A New Hope) so far, besides R2 and 3PO.

Of course, James Earl Jones has already recorded 5 minutes of Darth Vader's dialouge, just in case he dies before they get around to post-production looping.

[Jowbacca]

I got punked by Jar Jar, and now I'm related to him?!?!?!?

To quote Cartman:
GawdDANMIT!!!!

Laffin at Suntzu in denial... You know you walk around in those long flowing Brian Gray robes, complete with headband, when you're home all by yerself...

And if you listen real close at night in the Baltimore Metro area of Maryland, you'll hear *twang*twang*twang* coming from the general direction of JarJar's house... It's the sound of JarJar practising kidney-slicing techniques with his tinfoil broadsword.

FYI- I read the Timothy Zahn books, but started with like Episode 6. I didn't get the name from LowBacca, cuz i don't think he was in there. Mostly cuz Jow can also be pronounced Cho (Zhou) or Chow depending on the dialect and/or romanization. Cho-baka means "ultra stupid" in Japanese (it could also mean Jow-silly or Jow-crazy). Thus, I found my perfect screen name. It's better than my old "Lost_Disciple" moniker, cuz I thot I'd found a home.

I think I can die now as this has become a manifesto to rival that of the UniBomber.

[MasterKiller]

I stand corrected:


Some two decades after he first met Luke Skywalker, Chewbacca helped him by bringing him a new student for his Jedi academy, his nineteen-year-old nephew Lowbaca. In recent years, Chewbacca had more time to spend with his real family, but his adopted family remained a true force in his life.

Of course, Chewbaca died in Vector Prime, driving a rift between Han Solo and his arrogant son, Anakin Solo.

[Suntzu]

:D :rolleyes: :D ... i had to look up Brian Gray to see who he was... my hair is not that big...
Of course, Chewbaca died in Vector Prime, driving a rift between Han Solo and his arrogant son, Anakin Solo. oh jeez… the story is cyclical… I don’t think that’s what George had in mind…

[MasterKiller]

oh jeez… the story is cyclical… I don’t think that’s what George had in mind…

The relationships between fathers and sons is the main theme of the SW universe. How do boys become men? How do they return the wounds their fathers gave them in their youth?

Universal themes.