Why is it people always prefer other martial arts over Kungfu.

[dre_doggX]

I just dont understand, people will put, Judo and Taekwondo as something better, to learn then Kungfu. I just wanna know why. I mean one dude said "Dont learn Kungfu learn Taekwondo its the same thing" , and many people seem to have that belief that all martial arts or the same, but if they are the same, WHY DO THEY PICK TKD, Judo, Karate, etc, over Kungfu.

I am not trolling, I just wanted to know it from there side of the story.

[Brad]

I've never heard that :confused:

[Laughing Cow]

Haven't heard that either.

I found that the arts that are commercialised(wrongly advertised) and about which is known alot tend to attract more people.

Now KF is still fairly new to the western MA scene and many people are confused with amount of styles and diversity within the CMA.

Cheers.

[Former castleva]

To stay along the lines,I´d like to point out my reasonable concern of martial arts preconciously translating into "asian martial arts".

[David Jamieson]

The general idea of "life long endeavour", which is exactly what Kungfu is, does not appeal to a great deal of people in western society.

A lot of people look at other arts besides Kungfu, because many other arts have tangible goals to their training.

Kungfu always leaves room for more, and in aspect completely removed from martial arts.

Generally, there is not a lot of Kungfu available to be learned in North America anyway. There is quite a lot in certain areas (don't get me wrong), but it is not something that is as generally available as TaeKwonDo or Karate.

cheers

[SevenStar]

To keep on topic without trolling, sport styles like muay thai, bjj, judo etc. tend to make you effective faster than styles like CMA. That's not always the case, but in general, kung fu takes more time to become proficient in.

[Vapour]

Originally posted by dre_doggX
I just dont understand, people will put, Judo and Taekwondo as something better, to learn then Kungfu. I just wanna know why. I mean one dude said "Dont learn Kungfu learn Taekwondo its the same thing" , and many people seem to have that belief that all martial arts or the same, but if they are the same, WHY DO THEY PICK TKD, Judo, Karate, etc, over Kungfu.

I am not trolling, I just wanted to know it from there side of the story.

Firstly, don't forget that Judo and TKD are olympic sports.

Secondly, Japanese martial arts in particular has far longer history of exposure in West than Kung Fu.

Thirdly, most of main Japanese arts such as aikido, judo as well as tkd have far better organization.

Remeber that when you are talking about Japanese arts, you can talk about individual arts such as judo, aikido, karate, kempo, jijitu, kendo and so on. In Chinese martial arts, one have to use generig term Kung Fu.

[Xebsball]

I agree with Vapour on this too.
The sports factor is important too, but dont forget the uniforms - more specially the gis used on Judo, Karate and TKD, they look cool and kids dig it the most.

Hey SevenStar, thats an awesome choice for avatar.
Did you know it was Rurouni Kenshin tv series that first got me into martial arts? :D
Watch the OVAs if you havent seen yet, its awsome stuff.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Xebsball

Hey SevenStar, thats an awesome choice for avatar.
Did you know it was Rurouni Kenshin tv series that first got me into martial arts? :D
Watch the OVAs if you havent seen yet, its awsome stuff.

sweet. I haven't seen the OVA's - I'll check them out.

[Mr Chips]

IME it's usually ignorance that sees people go off to do Karate etc. rather than CMA. Here in Oz arts like Karate and TKD have better organisation, the associations and schools are bigger and hence better advertised so people tend to get drawn to those places. CMA schools tend to be small and because they are advertised as particular styles (rather than just KF) people struggle to identify what is being offered. Interestingly, i've noticed that most Karate and TKD schools have much more developed programs for kids, so maybe that's another factor.
Basically, people will go with what they know, even if the idea is pre- conceived. To a large extent Karate and TKD are a known product so people do that instead of risking an unknown.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by SevenStar
To keep on topic without trolling, sport styles like muay thai, bjj, judo etc. tend to make you effective faster than styles like CMA. That's not always the case, but in general, kung fu takes more time to become proficient in.

To continue with what 7* said (nice Avatar by the way, I love Kenshin), its to do with mastery. In TKD you can become a black belt in what, 3 years, and have your own school? JuJutsu, 5 or 6 years and have your own school? All the schools Ive looked into on Japanese JJ said 5 years minimum.

Kung Fu takes a while to learn and not alot of people have that dedication to learn it and become a teacher. They stick with it a few months then drop it. At my school there are only THREE students who are passed level 1. All of us have tested 1 and 2, and I am one of those 3. There are other students who have tested (private students) and the rest are those who come for 3 months and quit when they realize it will take a while to learn. When you don't have students who stay and learn, you don't have students who become teachers and teach.

7*, Im with Xebsball on this. The OVAs are AWESOME. They are incredibly good. Betrayl and Trust tells the origins of how he became what he became. There is a new one out too (I gotta go buy) and a movie.

[swordsoul]

It is a good point. Movies often encourage people to join MAs, but it's the main media for keeping MA even known so..

When Jet li kicks the crap out of the guys in the KARATE gi's in Kiss of the Dragon, does the observer recognize Jet li's Kung fu? no they recognize the bad guys' karate, cuz of the gi's... jet looks like some dude who waltzed in and beat up karate guys (oh ok jet's karate is better than their's, lol)

KARATE kid... JUDO chop... kung, uh... pow...

"I know kung fu" for the last time, no you don't! haha

(and when neo does fight morpheus, they are wearing Gi's again...)

which is all associated with japan. add the rise of anime to the mix, and certainly the organization is a factor... i grew up (i'm 20) idolizing chuck norris and sean claude van damme and Bruce lee.. (which everyone in Enter the Dragon was in a Gi yet again) so i thought it was all karate and muay thai, honestly.. kung fu always seemed so exotic..

plus the style it's self... kung fu has this block flowing into that block, with this kind of punch to counter that yadayadayada...

karate has HIYAAAA!!!!! PUNCH!

so which is the layperson gonna recognize? (kung fu doesn't break boards either really...)

love and unity
mnatt

[Shaolin-Do]

lofl
thats some funny sh!t...
another thing that drives me ape sh!t is the use of the word "karate" for description of ANY martial art... seems to be the case down here all the time. People usually dont even bother to use TKD, judo, bjj, ect... just say karate. so... if many of these people ever decide to take a martial art, what word or style is already predominantly in their head?
hmmm? :)

[shaolinboxer]

It seems there are several reasons. One reason is that far more sport oriented research has been done in the Korean and Japanese modern martial arts area. Therefore, they are often articulated to the public in a language that is more digestible. Another reason is that these martial arts have well organized larger bodies to which the smaller clubs belong, adding credibility to the art and mobility to the practitioner (I can move from texas to new york and still find a good, certified TKD instructor...). Another reason is the early, rapid introduction of these arts by military veterans that were stationed in Korea and Japan. Also, there are large formal competions for these style that are more accessible to the general public (again having to do with the large, formal organizations). And I think there is a cultural gap as well. After all, China is the last great bastion of communism, it is denounced by the media as having a poor human rights record, inadequate medicine, and excessive control over self expression by the public.

And in a TKD class, you actually learn what you see in the movies.

[Vapour]

Another thing I should add is that there are huge difference between being able to do martial arts and being able to teach martial arts.

I studied few arts but my judo instructor is without any doubt the best martial arts "instructor". He often criticise state of martial instruction. For example, according to him, if you become assistance instructor, not only you have to be able to *do* break fall, you have to know all the wrong break falls beginner would do, then being able to name every possible injuries which could result from incorrect performance. Basically, to be an instructor, not only you have to be able to do techniques, you have to have ability to theoretically explain why something is being taught in that way.

He pretty much think that you have to have knowledge equivelant to PE teacher specifically designed to judo to become a full judo instructor. He know how to do bone setting so he can treat any injury on spot. He also know how to do shiatu. But nowaday, all you need to open a new class are Child protection, First Aid, Ref certificate and your dan grade.

Then once you become senior instructor or head of school, you are a headmaster of a small school. And you really need to have expertise required as a head master. My judo school has committee with secretary, treasurey, publicity and so on in which few mature member of our dojo perticipate, in which some of them more than a decade of history in our school. My instructor reguraly meet with them to discuss the running of schoo. It is a very well organized school and it is his belief that any martial arts organization should have structure to teach their instructor how to do all these things.

Question is how many kung fu organization has educational structure to teach their senior grade how to instruct or run a school specifically designed for their arts. I don't think that many.

[Guile]

I dont see TKD in the movies.
Jackie Chan
Jet Li
Bruce Lee.
Sammo
Chuck Norris
Van Damm

Non TKD

[ewallace]

It's the same reason why McDonalds has been so successful. Sure Mickey D's doesn't make the best hamburger in the world. It is however the best at marketing their product, and acquiring prime locations to deliver that product.

The average soccer mom isn't too concerned about 8 year old Johnny being the most deadly kid on the block. :)

When I am in the market for a new car, I tend to stay away from the small car lots in favor of the larger, more familiar dealerships with a name and product I'm familiar with.

People are just impressed with Trophies. Especially when they shine, and are accented with good lighting.

[Former castleva]

Norris was/is a TKD master and Sammo both studied some TKD as far as I know and also starred in a movie "When TKD strikes" or related,again this reflects my own understanding.

[shaolinboxer]

"I dont see TKD in the movies.
Jackie Chan
Jet Li
Bruce Lee.
Sammo
Chuck Norris
Van Damm"

You don't. But Joe public does.

[koolbopper]

As a student of both japanesse and chinese martial art's I believe it is in the ignorance of the practitioner to classify one MA over another. I love my KUNG FU training but I also have studied a very priimative form of ninjitsu which I find to suit me very well. But i will never say one is better then the other one

[shaolin kungfu]

How do people see tae kwon do in Buce lee, jackie chan, and jet li?

[Former castleva]

"How do people see tae kwon do in Bruce Lee,Jackie Chan and Jet Li?"
You´re saying you don´t see it?

;)

[Sho]

I've been told that kung fu practitioners don't respect other fighting systems.

[Vapour]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
How do people see tae kwon do in Buce lee, jackie chan, and jet li?

Sara Michell Galler do TKD and has brown belt. So from public point of view, this makes coolness of Bruce Lee, Jacke Chan and Jet Li redundant.

[Shaolin-Do]

I've been told that kung fu practitioners don't respect other fighting systems.

Did you not read what Vapour just wrote about his judo school?

[shaolinboxer]

To make a specific comment about Bruce Lee and TKD, he learned a lot from Chuck Norris and the full contact karate fighters of the time....who mostly used Tang Soo Do, which can look exactly like TKD.

[Cyborg]

Bruce said there are three different ways to fight.

1 for the movies.
2 for the ring.
3 for the street.

Don't get them confused. I have to tell everyone that talks to me about jkd that "it's not what you see bruce do in the movies..." then they're not interested. Kinda humorous really.

[Drago]

I have trained in traditional karate for over 15 years. It took me ten to get my black belt. The main reason I see that other arts are recognized before Kung Fu is cultural.
The West has always looked externally for everything. Though there are some internal elements to other arts, they are much more emphasized in Kung fu. To some moms taken little Johnny and Suzy to class, that seems down right scary.

Also TKD, Judo, and Karate were all designed for mass market teaching. Military style for large groups. Very few Kung fu schools have made that transition therefor there class sizes have to be more limited. Smaller classes mean more personalized training, but it also means less people are ultimatley exposed to the art.

[fragbot]

Caveat: I train in two systems--one Japanese and one Chinese.

Overall, I'd say Chinese systems *in the West* have some issues that others don't.

1) Student self-selection. In my experience, Chinese systems do a stellar job of attracting weirdos trying to fill some imagined spiritual void. Too many people want to be some creepy imitation of Kwai Chang Caine. At some point, you need to attract aggressive, physically fit people who want to train martial-arts instead of becoming pseudo-monks spewing meta-physical nonsense they barely understand.

NOTE: aikido also appears to have this problem, but it's fairly anomalous this way amongst Japanese systems excepting, perhaps, Shorinji Kempo and iaido.

2) Forms, forms, and more forms. While I enjoy and practice forms and believe they're useful, it's my impression many Chinese systems go overboard.

"But Master Po did 4 hours of forms/day and he was a great fighter." Well, we'll have to take his word for it and, yeah, he probably worked other training methodologies just as hard.

3) Echoing what others have said, it's my experience Chinese systems tend towards the informal curriculum and instruction model while Japanese and Korean systems tend to use a more militaristic instruction model with standardized curriculums. I think the main outcome of this difference is an ultimately higher skill level for the cream of the crop CMA guy, but lower skills *on average* for Joe Schmoe.

Disagreeing with others in this thread, I don't think CMA systems are necessarily more difficult to understand and apply than, say, karate or tae kwon do. In an essential way they're easier, since offense and defense are often identical. Framed another way, KF training puts you 10 years ahead of other systems tactically.

My personal gripes about KF people I've met (mostly Westerners)--more than the population at large, KF people will check their critical thinking skills at the door and forget the important maxim of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." Furthermore, too many act like they want to *be* Chinese. A show of hands: how many people have goofy compadres who wear something like those ubiquitous and useless $2.00 Chinese slippers to a workout?

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
How do people see tae kwon do in Buce lee, jackie chan, and jet li?

The regular person can only see flashy kicks but martial artists have a trained eye and can see very move.

What person is going to sit there and say "oh he did a drilling fist! or tiger claw, cutting palm, leopard fist" or some type of spcaialised techinque like well placed fa jing,rolling, plucking, absorbing, etc

Kung fu has ways of attacking that the opponent can't see or wouldn't imagine. The only ones that can see it are the ones who have been trained to look for those things.

[bung bo]

i agree. to the untrained eye, all the techniques just look like some one moving around. and since they're are a lot more karate and tae kwan do advertisements all around these people, they see it and their like "awesome, karate/tae kwan do". there is just more of it around. anyway, i like being part of a small school.

[shaolinboxer]

"In my experience, Chinese systems do a stellar job of attracting weirdos trying to fill some imagined spiritual void. "

I think it would be more accurate to say that CMA instructors often do a less than stellar job at helping people fill their real spiritual void.

"At some point, you need to attract aggressive, physically fit people who want to train martial-arts"

Yes, that may be true. This way you can help eliminate their fear so that they may limit their output of unneccessary aggressive emotions and behaviors. Aggression is often a symptom of trauma, distress, or dissatisfaction. NOt that it does not have its place.

[fragbot]

Originally posted by shaolinboxer
"In my experience, Chinese systems do a stellar job of attracting weirdos trying to fill some imagined spiritual void. "

I think it would be more accurate to say that CMA instructors often do a less than stellar job at helping people fill their real spiritual void.


I wouldn't go to a preacher for martial arts training. Likewise, I wouldn't expect some guy who teaches me a mixed pounding form to be my spiritual guide.

Ah hell, there's always the mostly fictional Kwan Saihung or the oft "eats meat, drinks, and smokes and has a girlfriend" whispered Shaolin guy in NY.

Going to a boxing or wrestling club and asking for spiritual advice would be like a Mastercard commercial:

1) wrestling shoes -- $40
2) singlet -- $30
3) look on Dan Gable's face when you ask him about your place in the universe -- priceless



"At some point, you need to attract aggressive, physically fit people who want to train martial-arts"

Yes, that may be true. This way you can help eliminate their fear so that they may limit their output of unneccessary aggressive emotions and behaviors. Aggression is often a symptom of trauma, distress, or dissatisfaction. NOt that it does not have its place.

Inappropriate aggression in everyday life may be a symptom of the things you listed. However, in the context of combative training, I'd argue aggression is an essential component for successful application of most systems.

Put another way, how many people here have training compadres who'll never have "it" as long as they train? They may be technically skilled, but they're just missing the attitude necessary to succeed.

As an aside, I'm always surprised by people's negative reaction to the word aggression. As one of my favorite martial art quote machines said, "it's fighting not folk-dancing."

[swordsoul]

Originally posted by ghthomason


Is that Jean's younger, gay brother?
:D


niyaaaa baka baka......:o

yeah, it's all about the visual stuff. that's a good point about internal focus. My friend teaches kids "concentration drills" not "meditation".. seems safer that way for PC...

unity
matt

[Former castleva]

"How do people see tae kwon do in Buce lee, jackie chan, and jet li? "

Basically,I think the audience wants to see someone punching/getting punched while ramming popcorn down one´s throat.
It´s just entertaiment.

[Vapour]

"In my experience, Chinese systems do a stellar job of attracting weirdos trying to fill some imagined spiritual void. "

How about tai chi?

[Nick]

Why would anyone have something wrong with "meditation"?

Later...

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Nick
Why would anyone have something wrong with "meditation"?

Later...

Many Christians belief that having an idle or "empty" mind is leaving a door open for satan to enter their minds and bodies.

Thus mediation and anything that employes it is though to be the equivalent of sending an invitation with RSVP to Satan.
Atleast that what some christians told me.

I always thought that prayer is a form of mediation.
:confused: :confused:

[dezhen2001]

i thought the idea was to be mindFUL not mindLESS :confused:

dawood

[ArrowFists]

The reason I never studied Kung Fu was simple; I've never seen a proficient CMA practioner fight like anything other than a kickboxer.

Why bother with all those forms, stances, and drills if in the end, you're going to look like an average kickboxer who doesn't have to work that hard to reach your level of proficiency?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by ArrowFists
The reason I never studied Kung Fu was simple; I've never seen a proficient CMA practioner fight like anything other than a kickboxer.

Why bother with all those forms, stances, and drills if in the end, you're going to look like an average kickboxer who doesn't have to work that hard to reach your level of proficiency?

Because kickboxers can't do chi blasts :D

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by ArrowFists
The reason I never studied Kung Fu was simple; I've never seen a proficient CMA practioner fight like anything other than a kickboxer.

Why bother with all those forms, stances, and drills if in the end, you're going to look like an average kickboxer who doesn't have to work that hard to reach your level of proficiency?

Uhh speak for your self pal. I have seen various people and know some right now that can actually use their kung fu fully like it's supposed to be done. Trust me on this I've seen them and they are out there. Not everyone can use kung fu the way it's supposed to be.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by ArrowFists
The reason I never studied Kung Fu was simple; I've never seen a proficient CMA practioner fight like anything other than a kickboxer.

Why bother with all those forms, stances, and drills if in the end, you're going to look like an average kickboxer who doesn't have to work that hard to reach your level of proficiency?

Methinks, you need to look a bit harder.

They are out there but are often not widely known.

Cheers.

[phantom]

I hate to say this, but feel that I must. I think many people in the general public view certain aspects of kung fu's curriculum as being, for lack of a better word, nutty. They may be attracted to kung fu at first, but they frown at the idea of learning how to use weapons, putting poisonous ointments on your body, and taking herbal medicines internally. My own immediate family thinks that it is nutty. It does bother me that they feel this way, but I just cannot picture my life without kung fu.

[Dark Knight]

Chicks. TKD has more hotties, you want more people in CMA, get a lot more hotties to show up.

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow


Many Christians belief that having an idle or "empty" mind is leaving a door open for satan to enter their minds and bodies.

Thus mediation and anything that employes it is though to be the equivalent of sending an invitation with RSVP to Satan.
Atleast that what some christians told me.

I always thought that prayer is a form of mediation.
:confused: :confused:

With all due respect that statement is very incorrect. That's what American Christians beleive. Christianity in America has been contorted ,just like many times before, to fit an American view. I have actually sat down and read the Bible, and hopefully will read the Torah soon, and it says nothing about meditating being evil.

The devil is just an excuse that people use as an escape goat to not take responsibilty for their sins. Quite frankly it makes me mad that people always rely on that to make an excuse. If you do the crime then you take responsibility for it. To tell the truth I don't even believe the devil actually exists.

Oh and before anyone gets on my tail about reading the Torah I'm Catholic.

[Jabb]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
i thought the idea was to be mindFUL not mindLESS :confused:

dawood
At the beginning of zazen meditation you'll be experiencing mindfullness, but in time and with practise your thinking will stop automaticly at some point. It is experiencing our true nature, yet it doesn't mean we understand our true nature.

[Archangel]

For me at least Kung Fu has always been synonomous with "New Age" and "Holistic". When I did dig deeper and did search it took me quite a while to sift through all of the McKwoons and find the San Shou guys that actually fought.

[Former castleva]

"To tell the truth I don't even believe the devil actually exists."
I cannot resist but note that this is extraordinary to me,considering you´re catholic?
Not that there is anything wrong with that at all,just interesting.
:)

"Many Christians belief that having an idle or "empty" mind is leaving a door open for satan to enter their minds and bodies.


Thus mediation and anything that employes it is though to be the equivalent of sending an invitation with RSVP to Satan.
Atleast that what some christians told me."

Based on my observation and personal experience,this could be the case for some.Meditation can be linked to oriental methods&philosophies which can be considered fundamentally distorted from that perspective.
The same attitude can be seen when it comes to alternative medicine and related arts.

"With all due respect that statement is very incorrect. That's what American Christians beleive. Christianity in America has been contorted ,just like many times before, to fit an American view. I have actually sat down and read the Bible, and hopefully will read the Torah soon, and it says nothing about meditating being evil." You probably know better than me so would you confirm/debunk my doubt that meditation practices are also evident in christianity in some form?

[NorthernMantis]

Catholics, baptists, presbytarians... those are just political terms, we all believe in the same God but choose to worship God in a different way. I say I'm Catholic becuase I have been raised in that type of religion. Even though I'm Catholic there are some things that I don't agree with but still choose to be in the religion.

The main problem is that human beings have always misinteprited differently. Religion was just made by man and sometimes I feel that they have been enslaved to it instead of being worhippers of God. Some times I see people talking about their religion than talk about God and that's what the problem is..politics. Over the years I have seen many Churches teach their followers to hate other Churches and that's what makes Christians look bad. If that's not anti-Christian behavior I don't know what is. In the end most if not all religions have the same goal (well most of the goals except worshipt the same God that we worship).

>>You probably know better than me so would you confirm/debunk my doubt that meditation practices are also evident in christianity in some form?<<

Well I never claimed to know more than you and you probably have more knowledge than I do since you are older but I was jsut pointing out my oppinion. Probably my mistake was sounding like I knew everything but yes you are right that there are meditation practices in Christianity.

While were on topic I don't understand why people always compare Jesus to Siddartha (the buddha that we know) when Jesus was a buddha himself.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by NorthernMantis
With all due respect that statement is very incorrect. That's what American Christians beleive.

There might be alot of protestant 'development' in America, but that doesn't mean the Catholics, Orthodox, and more traditional protestants aren't there.


Originally posted by Former castleva
You probably know better than me so would you confirm/debunk my doubt that meditation practices are also evident in christianity in some form?

Confirmed: Christianity has a wide variety of meditative traditions, some of which have been expounded upon at great depth. Prominent examples would include Orthodox hesychasm (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm) and Jesus Prayer (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Prayer), Catholic labyrinth walking (http://www.nccatholic.org/print.php?ArtID=131) and rosary (http://www.rosary-center.org/secret.htm), and meditative traditions such as that of St. John of the Cross (http://www.karmel.at/ics/john/dn.html).

['MegaPoint]

Originally posted by SevenStar
To keep on topic without trolling, sport styles like muay thai, bjj, judo etc. tend to make you effective faster than styles like CMA. That's not always the case, but in general, kung fu takes more time to become proficient in.

People like anything "new and improved", too. Well initially they need convincing, but once they have their "evidence" they go with the "common" flow. That's one reason to do combat sports and newer Chinese influenced arts like---well---almost every Asian MA! It's all Kung Fu in some form. So take that as mad props to the progenitors!

Sev' is right though. BJJ, Muay Thai and other martial-influenced arts/sports are quick ways for gaining satisfactory fighting skills. A quick-fix.

Patience is for the serious martial ARTIST. Knowing violence is important for the impatient "martialist". This is expected because he cannot be an "artist", as no depth is connoted or even desired.


Oh yeah. There are very few MAs styles or schools worth anything nowadays. Good Chuan Fa is even harder to find than good Judo or Karate. I know that SA, Texas has next to nothing concerning any real Chinese fighting arts. I would train at Ywang-Jwing Ming's academy in a quick sec'! I don't live on the East Coast though. Even if he taught in Houston it is too far. So I drive 2 hours to train with one of the last legit American Okinawan Karate masters (Shuri Te) left!

I always tell my students that the style of karate they do is influenced greatly by nejia and wejia styles. Especially White Crane. I find the karate I do to be similar in more respects to Southern Shaolin Chinese methods than Japanese-influenced Okinawan Karate. And this is absolutely the truth.


One more thing: BALANCE IS CRUCIAL :)!

[swordsoul]

THose of you who have heard of Thich Nhat Hanh (and if not I HIGHLY recommend reading just about anything from him) has a lot of good things to say about nurturing your own spiritual tradition in a meditative fashion.. he's one of the foremost authors on buddhism and has written books like "Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers"

Also for a good chuckle (sarcasm) read "Why so many gods?" and get a feel for how many ub3r conservatives shun anything but "hard core" christianity... it actually has somethings to say about how the Yin Yang symbol can lead to bad things.. this book is readily bought at any Kroger's or Meijer's or the like... scary.

Also, back to that "Concentration not meditation..." um, several of the kids in my fencing squad's parents are of the "Harry Potter is evil" type... you know who i mean.. so, thinking they could all benefit from yoga and meditation, we have "stretching and concentration practice" although the word Mindfulness is touted a lot, i don't think i'd get a bible thrown at me for that one.. it's strange too because we have wiccans muslims christians buddhists gays vegans veggies blacks whites, people into death metal and britney spears, simultaneously ;) ..... all on the team sport known for it's twisted sense of humor, and i gotta be careful about what i say *ugh... ah well C'est la vie, no?

but compare that paragraph to say a football team, and i think you can compare kung fu to karate.

love and unity
matt

[Laughing Cow]

NP & Chris M.

I don't know that much about christianity since I am not a christian, neither do I follow any other belief system.

Said that I was taught some Lutherian protestantism for a bit(I got registered as such but quit the church at the earliest opportunity).
Luckily religious education at school is optional in my home country.
FWIW, my parents are lutherian protestant and catholic, never knew that till I was 14yrs old.
;)

I also not American, I got the info from Christian friends of mine none of them is American either.
Said that same friends happily played AD&D and similar RPG's.
:D

Rgardless I found a lot of people tend to be brainwashed by their religious sects/beliefs and will follow those doctrines parrot fashion.

Cheers.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Laughing Cow
Said that I was taught some Lutherian protestantism for a bit

Protestantism can vary dramatically from orthodox Christianity (by which I mean the various Catholic and Orthodox churches). On one hand, there are followers of Luther and Calvin who are very adamant about the changes they made; and on the other, there are 'new' protestant faiths whose theology can vary to just about any extreme. However, it's difficult to generalize about protestant faiths, as there are a great many of them, with great variability. The main contributing factor to this has been protestantism's characteristic strong emphasis upon fundamentalism (ie. literal interpretation of scripture as primary basis for faith) coupled with a strong deemphasis on authority (ie. authority = informing your reading of scripture with concepts from the early church fathers, pontifical synods, etc). Because of this dynamic, hundreds of protestant faiths have developed in a short period of time; as an individual will interpret scripture, this will form the basis of his faith, and if his interpretation is significantly different than the faith he was brought up in, he starts his own. By the same token, this explains why there is such variation in beliefs among the various protestant faiths.

That said, there are several theological points which are characteristic across protestantism which can tend to bias believers towards the kind of thinking which considers meditation evil (points absent from orthodox christianity). An important one has been the strong de-emphasis on mysticism (orthodox christianity is highly mystical; for example, the links I provided above; or the orthodox doctrine of transubtantiation which is the cornerstone of orthodox worship, compared to the protestant doctrine rejecting that mysticism in the Eucharist). Another important difference would be the protestant rejection of purgatory which, for various theological reasons, promotes the idea of God primarily as judge and executioner (rather than lover), and positions the devil as the arch-nemesis of God (contrary to popular belief, a heretical position among the orthodox). Similarly, the protestant rejection of the orthodox doctrine that faith must be accompanied by love to lead to spiritual grace, can effect how many protestants approach relationships. And of course fundamentalism in general tends to lead to this kind of thinking.

... important differences most people aren't aware of; thought it may interest you.