Shaolin Do

[Storme]

I only have a simple question: why the big controversy/uproar/unrest about Shaolin Do?

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Yung Ng
stormesixx@yahoo.com
www.happyshmoo.com (http://www.happyshmoo.com)
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To conquer others is to have power; to conquer yourself is to know the way.

[Daelomin]

Here we go again..... :rolleyes:

[Mojo]

Storme
It is controversial because it is the only style ever to be founded by a dog.

[Kung Lek]

harsh mojo...

peace

Kung Lek

[MonkeySlap Too]

It is controversial because of the questionable history and the fact that it appears not to follow the principles of any CMA that anyone on this board or I have ever met are aware of.

It is also under question because many of the things it claims to teach appear nothing at all like those actual styles.

Nontheless, some of the players are nice guys.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Fu-Pow]

Its controversial because its the first art to be founded by Teen Wolf.
http://www.shaolin-do.com/masters/SKong.jpg

Lol, mojo :D

Fu-Pow

http://www.fongs-kungfu.de/assets/images/lionhead.gif

"Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

-Lee Koon Hung,
CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

[Mojo]

If you'd like to know how to defeat Shaolin-do then click on the link provided.

http://www.igia.com/videos/epil_stop56.asf

[joedoe]

No comment. I am tired of this debate. :(

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

[Lost_Disciple]

Ever hear that theory of the big monkey beating on the smaller monkey, who then goes and kicks the cr@p out of an even smaller monkey?

That's kinda how this is. The MMA/NHB guys rant on traditional kung fu every week in the main forum. The dejected (or sometimes bored) traditionalists start up an anti-Shaolin Do thread. The anti-Shaolin Do thread usually ends in an armistice and an agreed upon disliking for sport Tae Kwon Do.
I believe I've summarized this cycle, unless anyone has anything pertinent to add?

I'm not pro Shaolin Do, but I'm not going to speak out against it. It's not my bag, it's not a style I'm into and not a style I want to practise. The issue has been raised that some people think that it's a fraudulent organization. Personally, I am not a qualified person to stand up and throw stones at them for things I don't agree with. I also think this board is not the time nor place to come out, make these judgements & accusations, and keep the fight going. It will solve nothing. Obviously they enjoy what they're doing and the rest of us should enjoy what we're doing or we shouldn't do it. This is a discussion board, not a martial conference where we have the power to pass judgement on other styles.

I think the worste thing about the constant targeting of the style is that it turns people like The Willow Sword- who was pretty okay before the threads bashing his style started coming into the spotlight; into a bitter, defensive person in a lot of his posts. I don't wanna see the same thing happen with Storme- but she seems the type that would just leave instead of getting involved in a pointless argument.

Bickering and infighting is the bane of kung fu and keeps it from being able to promote itself to its fullest extent.

I agree with ABandit that I'm really tired of the argument. I thought we were here to share and discuss our views of the martial arts, so let's share and not try to pass some type of judgement which change absolutely nothing, except the attitude of some devoted students.

Anywayz, welcome to the board Storme.

[joedoe]

I assume you do Shaolin Do? As lost disciple said, if you enjoy it and you get something out of it then keep at it.

And yes, I have been guilty of bagging out Shaolin Do as well.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

[cho]

the constant SD flamers like reemul don't have a problem about people enjoying SD. It's when they start calling what they do Shaolin martial arts.

[Radhnoti]

Wonderful post Lost_Disciple.

-Radhnoti

[billy_pilgrim]

L_D,
It's easy to categorize SD players as innocents who are unfairly(or fairly, take your pick) put upon by others, but it's not quite so simple. Look at another thread...
We have a vid posted from the Atlanta SD School of a *gulp* Bak Mei form, another forum member who actually studies Bak Mei, came on to add, that, the form does not look like Bak Mei. What does he get for this? He gets a SD student telling him that he doesn't know the difference between a real/SD "combat" form, and modern wushu (the inference was clearly made that he is studying modern wushu, not the correct Bak Mei, which only Sin The knows). I have been told more or less the exact same things by SD players in the past. I guess if I was a much bigger person I would just humor them, nod my head, and say, "how nice for you", but I'm not there yet...
Some people hold their traditions sacred, and do not like others co-opting a name, like white eyebrow for instance, for their own personal gain.

[Nexus]

Several people on the forum are failing to see that 90% of people who practice martial arts these days do it for health and not self defense. So who really cares? Practice the art you enjoy practicing for your own reasons and let everyone else do the same. If you want to compete, then compete, but why the bickering. Learn to passively ignore people who lack education/knowledge/experience and just want to stir up issues.

- Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[Lost_Disciple]

That Bak Mei example was a bad situation and I'll admit the SD posters aren't always innocent; BUT I'm sure that the poster in question was on the defensive because of the continual attacks on his style. Even if an anti-SD thread wasn't on top at that time, all he had to do was naively look up his style with the search engine.

We can't solve anything by b!tching these people out. We're not going to change their minds, they're not going to all of a sudden see the light, they're not going to thank us for our wealth of knowledge. If they call what they do Shaolin, let 'em. I think if we make an effort to cut back on berating them, then no more incidents like that "Bak Mei" incident will happen.

All that's happening here is pointless bickering. In the thousands of SD related posts we've solved nothing. Other points of view are already out there in the message archives. If these people are that interested in hearing your side of the story, they'll look them up. Otherwise, I just propose no more bickering, it's a moot point- nobody's gonna change. Let's let this reemul/The Willow Sword thing play out and go down. We can discuss the results, maybe people will finally get some stuff out of their system. But "trying to make them see the light" hasn't worked it's just created some angry/defensive posters.
.

[billy_pilgrim]

Can't argue with that. I'll admit to being slightly PO'd at the reaction tnwingtsun got for sharing his opinion. I've said what I think of SD, but let me add, that, I'm sure some of them certainly can fight, I mean, I know several karatekas who can fight. Just about anything can be effective if you devote the time to it.

[reemul]

To Lost_Disciple: Interresting monkey theory, but seeing as I seem to have success against MMA guys, I find your theory flawed. Systems have the ability to make great practioners, doesn't mean everyone will become so. That goes for MMA and NHB as well as so call "traditionals".

To Cho, Yep that pretty much sums it up. I don't care about what they practice, but call it what it is. There are many MA that I don't think highly of however I respect them because they don't try to pass it off as something its not.

[Storme]

Hey everyone,

First of all, I want to apologize for inciting this thread. I meant to disrespect to anyone nor did I intend to start any bickering/*****ing, etc. on this board on this topic. I was just curious why an art would receive so much contempt and contention from other pratitioners of other arts.

My opinions are not the same as anyone else's and probably never will be the same but they're mine nonetheless. I am entitled to them but there is a limit, especially when my opinion is derogatory and plain rude toward others. I have seen a lot of that kind of "opinion" on this board, especially when Shaolin Do is concerned. In my humble opinion, I don't think that's right.

I am not here to change other people's minds nor am I here to try to get others to change mine. I just want to know why one art gets so much grief. Questions on the validity of the teachings and lineage are acceptable questions. I understand that. I have these types of questions too, not just about martial arts. I question the validity of a lot of things. But as many questions as I have (on religion for example) I don't make personal remarks about it - like the appearance of the founder, etc. Those are uncalled for and unncessary.

Yes, I do practice Shaolin Do. Call it what you will but I like it. I am healthier than I've ever been and I'm in better shape now than I was 9 months ago. Best of all, it's fun and I've met a lot of very cool people through it. I won't stop what I'm doing but I'm not going to try and get others to stop what they're doing and take up Shaolin Do either. Some of the posts in reply to my initial question has advised that I do what I like and enjoy. I think that is best and everyone should do that as well. To each his own.

Again, I'm sorry if my asking this one simple question annoyed anyone and I'm definitely sorry if my one simple question renewed the bickering on this board. That was not my intent.

Respectfully,
Storme

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yung Ng
stormesixx@yahoo.com
www.happyshmoo.com (http://www.happyshmoo.com)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To conquer others is to have power; to conquer yourself is to know the way.

[Fu-Pow]

We don't care if you do Shaolin-Do or Hong Kong Fuey. But please...just call it what it is....Kempo/Kenpo Karate. That is all we ask of you and all we ask of Sin The.

Fu-Pow

http://www.fongs-kungfu.de/assets/images/lionhead.gif

"Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

-Lee Koon Hung,
CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting