Anyone know where I can get Chinese Locks in the US? [Archive]

@PLUGO

04-17-2003, 10:04 AM

Grandmaster Tu's homemade locks.

Get a cinderblock and a piece of rebar.

Bend the Rebar in a shape similar to this:
- ___
-l___l
./___\

fit the rebar into the holes of the cinderblock so that there's enough room 3-4" above the block to grip the rebar. Stablize the rebar and fill the holes with cement. Once the cement is dried you can wrap the rebar with rope then perhaps leather to you have something heftier to grip. something like this:
._,==,_
|_____|

With a little bit of creative effort you can mold the cement over the edges of the rebar so only the horizontal grip is exposed the lock could look like this:

./ l==l \
|_____|

The weight distribution is significantly different that that of dumbells. Give it a try... good luck :)

_

Royal Dragon

04-17-2003, 11:53 AM

Design Sifu,

Reply]
Now that was helpful :D Being a metal worker, I was thinking of taking some 1/4 ince metal plate, and folding it into the basic shape.

Then add some plates in the bottom, and stack them up one at a time till they fill the empty space. I need some traditional dimensions for the locks though. Your method may be quite a bit easier though.

./ _ \
|___| <---------the plates would be stacked inside here, and welded inplace one at a time as I progressed.

This idea came to me last night wile I was up because one of Terri's exotic creatures had babies and they were making lots of noise all night.

As for Kettle bells, I'd have to look into them. They are more like cannonballs with handles, but they should be weighted close enough to work. I just want the Chinese version for the Chinese art.

WD,
You don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do. Chinese locks are not only weighted differently than dumbells, but some of the exercises REQUIRE them to be weighted the way they are.

Water Dragon

04-17-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Royal Dragon

WD,
You don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do. Chinese locks are not only weighted differently than dumbells, but some of the exercises REQUIRE them to be weighted the way they are.

LOL. If you don't like my suggestion, don't use it. Pretty simple no? :rolleyes:

Royal Dragon

04-17-2003, 12:10 PM

No problem

@PLUGO

04-17-2003, 03:36 PM

That welded plate version sounds MAD... and heavy as hell!!!

Would love to see a finish product...

you could probably work out some kinf of mold with folded sheet metal.

While in Africa we made MANY cinderblock from scratch pouring cement into a metal mold.

Not sure how it would be done...
2 halves that come appart?
Hinged at the handle?

i n t e r e s t i n g . . .

keep us posted on it's development.

count

04-17-2003, 03:55 PM

You might check the January issue of Kung Fu Qiging Magizine ;)

Royal Dragon

04-17-2003, 04:22 PM

I was thinking of making it out of 1/4 inch plate. I just need the specs. If I do it the way I described, it can start out light, and as I progress, I can add more plates, and thus more weight in a progressive mannor.

All I need is the specs, and permission to use the shop for my own purposes one day as opposed to making burners for the company. I can order the stock for the handle, like 1-3/4 diamater scedual 80 tubing. I'm thinking of ordering 120 inches, and turning the leftover stock into a really heavy staff. I can also order the plate in sheets of 120" by what ever width the Lock is suposed to be. I'd then cut it to size, and clamp it to the bench and heat the bends with a torch so it's easy to bend to shape. Once I have the shape finnished, I can just cut the rest of the plate stock into weights that can be added to the Lock at will. The handle would just be cut to length in the saw, and welded in place according to whatever specs I build it out of.

I'd prefer to buy a set, as getting the shop for personal use is not allways easy (I've done it before though), but if I have to make a set, then I have to make a set.

I just need dimensions and other specs. so I can lay out the design on paper first so it's a quick easy job. I might make some templates out of cardboard first to get an idea of the work ahead of time.

@PLUGO

04-18-2003, 09:38 AM

Well, I don't know that there's actual standarized specs for the dimensions for a lock.

the bigger the heavier I suppose. Sounds like the cinderblock method may be easier... but I do no meatle work so you discription sounds Wayyyyy over my head.

What if you designed a lock where weights can me added & or subtracted as needed. Sort of a mutated dumbel.
That could be very cool.

Or a combo where you bend that mettle tube in that handle shape I discribed earlier, then create a mettle square mold. You could then place the handle in the mold with cement...

This whole thing could make for quite an article . . .

Royal Dragon

04-18-2003, 10:17 AM

Yeah, I should probably document it, and send it to Gene if I do it.

norther practitioner

04-18-2003, 11:15 AM

That'd be cool. My idea was to buy a box that fits the size you need, then just cut out to appropriate shape and pour it. (Using some bent rebar for the handle.

Rebar going across gap on top, or

use two dumb bells, attach at appropriate width (which would prob. include some welding of some sort), which could give the option of weight and weighting.

Shaolin-Do

04-18-2003, 12:42 PM

So a stone lock would basically be a heavy rectangle with a handle?
im still confused....

@PLUGO

04-18-2003, 02:49 PM

A Stoned Lock is basicly a Pot Smoked Salmon!!!
:D

Royal Dragon

04-18-2003, 03:11 PM

Yes, it is a traditional Weight training devise used in Chinese Kung Fu systems, essentially a rectangle with a handle. It is somewhat similar to a Russian Kettel Bell in use. The Russian Kettel bell is more like a Cannon Ball with a handle though.

kungfuyou

04-18-2003, 04:19 PM

So what's the purpose/benefits of using the locks? And how are you supposed to use them??

count

04-18-2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by kungfuyou
So what's the purpose/benefits of using the locks? And how are you supposed to use them??
It's a great way to find your center. Weight should be at least 20 pounds which of course multiplies when you swing it. You start by swinging it up in front of you. Next you toss it and catch it in your other hand. Later you can turn it around/spin it when you toss it. Higher levels you catch it with your finger tips and raise it straight up over your head. You can let it fall and catch it with your elbow extended. Sounds simple but over the years it really develops power an rooted from an external method going inward. There are several other patterns but I'll leave it at that.

Waterdragon, maybe now you can see why simple weights won't accomplish the same development. You need the balanced rock and handle to turn, toss and catch. Stick to your Shuai Chaio throwing bag.;)

count

04-18-2003, 04:48 PM

I know where you might be able to get one here in the states. But the shipping is going to be a mint. Again, I didn't see the article in January, Kung Fu Chi Kung magazine. But I suspect they published the instructions for making them. I saw the pre-photography and I seem to remember some conctruction tips. Don't know if it got in though.:D

Royal Dragon

04-18-2003, 05:08 PM

Don't be a tease, post the contact info!!!

Water Dragon

04-19-2003, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by count

Waterdragon, maybe now you can see why simple weights won't accomplish the same development. You need the balanced rock and handle to turn, toss and catch. Stick to your Shuai Chaio throwing bag.;)

Ya know Count, I still don't. I use a french curl bar for stone locker. But I also have a 30 pound weight I've used before. Of course I don't throw the thing though. I swing it up, pass hands and swing it down.

Don't have a throwing bag either. I've been meaning to get one. I do have a snapping bag though :)

count

04-19-2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Don't have a throwing bag either. I've been meaning to get one. I do have a snapping bag though :)

What's her name?:D

RD, I'll e-mail you the contact info but I have to get permission first. These folks are in Utah so it might take me a few days.

Royal Dragon

04-19-2003, 03:44 PM

Cool, refunds comming soon, and I have Kung Fu plans for it :D

@PLUGO

04-30-2003, 04:34 PM

So.... any headway with the stone LOCK?

here's a pict of a rebar frame used for a stone lock...

Royal Dragon

04-30-2003, 05:12 PM

No progress yet. I'm waiting for a comercial source. If I don't find one by the time I get my return, I'm making one from steel stock we have lying around the shop. I just need good dimensions.

GeneChing

05-01-2003, 09:18 AM

At Shaolin Temple, the area is well known for granite quarries and there are many stone carving yards nearby. So to find a stone lock is pretty easy - they carve them out of granite.

At the Beijing Sports college, I saw a beautiful example of a stone lock with carved dragon head ends - it was carved out of some incredibly heavy stone that looked like a red granite.

As for dimensions, there is no "set" dimensions - sort of like dumbells, you use them as heavy as you can handle.

Also Grandmaster Tu just made a simpler version then the rebar one that Design Sifu explaned, by taking a cinder block, filling the holes with cement to secure the handle, then wrapping the handle in cord.

Royal Dragon

05-01-2003, 10:12 AM

Yeah, it looks like I may end up making a pair. Since i work in a metal shop, it's going to be much easier for me to fabricate them from steel stock, than making a Rebar one.

@PLUGO

10-06-2003, 04:52 PM

Royal Dragon,

Just curious if you've made any headway on your steal-stone-locks?

Royal Dragon

10-06-2003, 05:37 PM

Nope, I quit that job for a better paying one, so the project just fizzled. I just lift nomal weights when I can instead.

Chang Style Novice

10-06-2003, 09:01 PM

Seems like it'd be pretty easy to simulate the effects of a stone lock by filling a bucket with sand, or if you need more weight, metal plates.

Water Dragon

10-07-2003, 07:51 AM

LOL

6 months ago, you guys wanted to chastise me because I use bar with weights and it does not have the correct "feel" to it.

6 months later, you still don't have your toy, and I have another 6 months of training under my belt.

Royal Dragon

10-07-2003, 08:01 AM

So, what's your point? We all have 6 months more training under our belts too. Just because we don't have our "Toy" as you put it does not me we don't just find other ways to do this stuff.

Really WD, your mastery of your art is pretty weak if you can't figure out how to vairy your methods, and still get the results you want.

count

10-07-2003, 08:08 AM

Weights are not a good replacement option for the kind of training you are supposed to be doing with the locks. But have fun anyway.:p

count

10-07-2003, 08:10 AM

You might try gallon water/milk bottles filled with sand, but I doubt you can get them balanced enough for a good turn.

Water Dragon

10-07-2003, 08:17 AM

Count, that's kinds funny, 'cause I've gotten the results from it. I wonder how that happened?

RD, go ahead keep talking. What is it now, 12 months and your back will be ready to give me what for? I can hardly wait...

count

10-07-2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Count, that's kinds funny, 'cause I've gotten the results from it. I wonder how that happened?

Waterdragon, future Governor Arnold got results too. That and steriods get the kind of results you are talking about. But than, Arnold can't even reach his head to comb his hair. The rock training has nothing to do with building muscle. I repeat, this kind of training builds root and internal strength from the outside in. I've got nothing aggainst using weights to supplement your martial arts training. But don't misunderstand what training is for.

Water Dragon

10-07-2003, 08:35 AM

Uhhh, no Count. That;'s NOT what I'm talking about. Is it so surprising that someone can take a concept and figure out a way to train it without using the traditional tools?

I ging a barbell off my forearms too instead of a traditional Iron Bar. Does this mean that I really don't have any short power?

-edit-
If you saw me, you'd understand how silly your comment about muscle really is.

Royal Dragon

10-07-2003, 08:53 AM

Do you have a problem with building muscle?

BTW, my back is fine now, I just need to find some guys to work with on a consistant basis.

count

10-07-2003, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Do you have a problem with building muscle?

BTW, my back is fine now, I just need to find some guys to work with on a consistant basis.
Are you asking me about building muscle? Go back and read the post.

Too bad about your back. If it needs work on a constant basis there is still something wrong though. I would do something more long term and permanent. Careful with those weights.:cool:

Royal Dragon

10-07-2003, 09:16 AM

My back is fine so long as I work it right. Oddly enough, I use a couple of postures I learned from WD's teacher with great sucsess (I actualy have great respect for them, I just don't think they are as super human as WD does). I added them, and some stuff from the Tagou manuals, and another from a Louhan set I have, to the modern form "Wu Bu Chuan". So long as I hold the whole set once a week for at least a minute each posture, I'm fine. But if I go for 8-10 days or so without, my back starts hurting again, especially when I wake up in the morning, or stand on my feet too long.

I probably should call the new set Qin Lung Chuan

As for weigths, I can bench, do bent over rows, and light curls etc. If I do heavier than say 90 pounds on a curl, my back is trashed out for days. I'm afraid to even try sqauts and anything that puts weight over my head. The original injury is a compression injury, and the dammage is perminant. The Locks, would actually be much better for me than modern weights because of the fact that they don't strain the back as much. I just haven't had the time to devote to finding, or making a set.

gojumaster

10-07-2003, 09:24 AM

RD,

In a number of Okinawan styles, including Goju-Ryu, we utilize a number of the same tools found in styles in southern china.

On this site, you will find some excellent equipment (I own some myself) that is made of a high-density plastic / resin.

http://www.bushifitness.com/equipment.htm

Russ Smith
http://www.Goju-Ryu.info/
http://www.OKDR.org/

Royal Dragon

10-07-2003, 09:28 AM

HOT DAMMMM!!! That's exactly what I'm looking for!!!

Wow, I may buy me some of these for Christmass this year!!

Now I can do a bunch of the exercises found in the Southern Tai Tzu Chuan system.

THANKS!!!

I love KFO, this place rocks!!

Black Jack

10-07-2003, 09:32 AM

Royal,

You really should focus on building up the muscle in your back through a specific goal focused weight based program. You will see wonders.

It would be a good idea in this case to get the help from a qualified personal trainer at one of the better local gyms. At the Powerhouse in Naperville they have a number of different programs for specific needs and development areas with excellent personal trainers to back them up. The gym is excellent in that it goes a good step beyond a yuppy bally's as the owners are sports orientated. One is a football coach for example. They have power based programs there with a special room for there teams that members can use.

I know personal programs can be expensive but it might be a good idea to invest in the knowledge then once you have a program written down to just start doing it on your own.

If your back hurts when you are curling you are doing bad form and jerking the weight. Lower the weight.

Cheers.

Royal Dragon

10-07-2003, 09:48 AM

Yeah, I pretty much have that covered. I wrote my own routine for therapy, and had my theripist sign off on it. It works really really well. However, If I'm doing a 2 hour therapy routine 3 times a week, I'm not doing much Kung Fu am I? Once I discovered that holding certian postures for 40 minutes works almost as good as the therapy routine for 2 hours, I started doing that so I could at least get my Kung Fu basics in.

As for the curles thing, I just never do more than 90 pounds (45 a side) and I'm OK. If I go heavier, I really begin to feel it.

Once Terri is done moving to Ohmaha, I'll have room to set up my pull up bar, and I will then do weighted pull ups/chinups and such instead. You get similar development as curles, but it makes my back feel really good afterwards and you can get some chest and shoulder work at the same time.