What can one attain from practicing

[Phenix]

There are mass discussion about where the lineage comes from or who is the oldest or Shao LIn or Emei........paradigm shift.....

IMHO, ultimately, it is not important at all if history is just history and DNA is just DNA.


so,
I would like to start a new topic here about :

Presume you are correct about all your history, DNA, and you are the oldest..... most original...... or anything one likes to claim or don't like to claim.... set all this history discussion into rest.


So, the final analysis are:

1, how advance ( level or state) can your SLT/SNT tranining get you to?

2, what is the vision of this advance achivement or attainment?

3, have anyone in your lineage achived this visionary goal in the past?

4, what kind of theory and training were embeded in your SLT/SNT to make this achivement possible?

[wingchunalex]

Could you refrase the last part about achievement. I'm not exacly sure what you are asking. Its sounds like their are typeing errors, "-ed" left off, and other things.

[William E]

Hendrick

Why would you submit a post with a subject that has nothing to do with the actual content of the post?

And what questions are you really asking because the ones you've writen down make no sense? :confused:

[foolinthedeck]

i'd like to see more people ascending up to heaven like Shantideva. not sure if anyone has just from siu lim tao though.

[woseung]

The discussion went no where in terms of history. Now you want to talk about Chan? Very interesting questions. I'm looking forward to some good discussion. However, before asking for answers, we should all ask ourselves: do I have the proper mindfulness of Chan, do I have what it takes to recieve the answers?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by woseung
The discussion went no where in terms of history. Now you want to talk about Chan? Very interesting questions. I'm looking forward to some good discussion. However, before asking for answers, we should all ask ourselves: do I have the proper mindfulness of Chan, do I have what it takes to recieve the answers?


IMHO, different people have different view. So some go a long way, some do not. the facts are always there, but why should one force other to belive what one doesn't belive?



IF you read my re phrase questions properly you know it is not about Chan. It is about what SLT/SNT can do. Very Tangeble and Technical.


As for mindfulness of Chan, if one can drive a Car in a highway then ofcause one has mindfulness. Everyone has buddha nature. Everyone is created with the image of GOD. One has it without needed to work for it.

As For Chan, Chan is a teaching focus on breaking one's attachment to methodology and self, as teaches in Chan sutras.

As for Samadhi, one can attain that from Chan school, Esoteric School..... Daoism..... Sufi.... Hinduism.... ect.. So it is a phenomenon with different name.

But then, the question I have phrase up there are not about Chan....


It is such as Taiji has Reel Silk or Peng to carry it's trainner to advance state. Hsing Yee has the San Chai Zhuang to carry its trainner to advance state...... Hope that this make it clear.

[sel]

Originally posted by Phenix
1, how advance ( level or state) can your SLT/SNT tranining get you to?
2, what is the vision of this advance achivement or attainment?
3, have anyone in your lineage achived this visionary goal in the past?
4, what kind of theory and training were embeded in your SLT/SNT to make this achivement possible? [/B]

1. i think you can always improve, no matter how advanced you get.
2. to attain total mind body co-ordination. to be able to transfer force to any part of your body at will (that is using the mind)
3. tsui seung tin
4. structure, relaxation, focus.

[Train]

Hi Hendrik,

I want to know your answer to your own question.
So have you achieved your goal in SLT/SNT?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Train
Hi Hendrik,

I want to know your answer to your own question.
So have you achieved your goal in SLT/SNT?


Sure I will post mine later. In the mean time, please post yours to share.



Sel,

Thanks

[yuanfen]

slt is the fundamental text of great art.
So you continue seeing things that you hadn't noticed before
to improve your art.

[PaulH]

Hi Hendrix,

You ask interesting questions. Here are my plain answers.


1, how advance ( level or state) can your SLT/SNT tranining get you to?

If action starts from the mind or the heart, it would be better to go beyond its seen physical manifestation to feel or to sense its unseen and intangible side. Practicing SLT seems to help one to initiate this inward journey process. "Tan, Bong, Fook, Wu and Huen; Their wonder grows with practice." - SLT Kuen Kuit.



2, what is the vision of this advance achivement or attainment?

"Through training the forms we realize that, unlike other martial arts, there are no fixed responses in WC. That is to say, if I attack in one way that you must response in a certain manner. WC stipulates the use of concepts and principles, and there are techniques to follow these ideas" - WSL.



3, have anyone in your lineage achived this visionary goal in the past?

I do believe Wong was a good example of a formless fighter.



4, what kind of theory and training were embeded in your SLT/SNT to make this achivement possible?
"Thousands of variations; Aiming for practicality, not beauty" - SLT Kuen Kuit.
"When doing the 1st form, you should relax and let your energy come out naturally. The energy that you apply varies from situation to situation. The first form teaches you how your energy can be best applied." - WSL.
"Other styles would place much emphasis on the training of forms and combination techniques. WC ideas will not allow this method of training. WC theory will not allow any fixed responses or fixed combinations of techniques." - WSL
"A lot of WC is in the mind. The actions or movements are not that important. What WC teaches is that it is more important to use what is in your head." - WSL

[Mckind13]

SLT is like a living text that describes the Wing Chun method.

Through practice & study we can gain an understanding into the nature of the art. Our teachers can help us but in the end dililigent practice will reveal the real Wing Chun, the true nature.

When I practice I train the physical form and the principles but also observe the way of the SLT.

Thanks,

David McKinnon

[Phenix]

1, how advance ( level or state) can your SLT/SNT tranining get you to?


IF EMEI 12 zhuang have 9 level of state which at around the 6th level one shift into the paradigm of Light. Then, YIK KAM SLT, similar to its mother at least has 9 levels. -HS




2, what is the vision of this advance achivement or attainment?



Return to Sunyatta or Emptiness or Natural by get rid of limitation in the realm of Mind/Body. -HS




3, have anyone in your lineage achived this visionary goal in the past?


Yik Kam

and Chow Chien-Chuan of Emei 12 Zhuang. - HS




4, what kind of theory and training were embeded in your SLT/SNT to make this achivement possible?


Let got the body then the body will be is light as silk.
Let got the breathing then the Qi turn into heat and light
Let got the self then one flow naturally similar to water. -HS




---------------------------------------

IT is about Grace not about power
It is about Peace not about Anger...

Air is similar to land, one can step one it.
Belive then one shall ..... ---- Bulletproof Monk.

[yylee]

Originally posted by Phenix
IF EMEI 12 zhuang have 9 level of state which at around the 6th level one shift into the paradigm of Light. Then, YIK KAM SLT, similar to its mother at least has 9 levels. -HS


Just curious, are the two 9 level of states (12 Jong, YK SLT) identical? Or are they somewhat symbolically parallel to each other with different depths and differences in "Choo Yaou" (thick/fine)?

[sel]

phenix, that's a really nice way of understanding. cool!!

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yylee


Just curious, are the two 9 level of states (12 Jong, YK SLT) identical? Or are they somewhat symbolically parallel to each other with different depths and differences in "Choo Yaou" (thick/fine)?


"Spontaneously return to natural, the Qi and Mai settle in peace"

How many type of Spontaneous are there?


after certain level it is not the about the set anymore. it is about the person who does the set.....

Keeping tensing the elbow and knee will not going anyway. -- Both the Goat die and the people go no where. ha hahaha..
Standing without ankle will floating into no where. Both the Goat and the people keep floating into nowhere...

Thus Surangama sutra is very important after get into silence state or theta. Beware of you fantasy become true... So, Surangama sutra is needed, Buddhist art right?

[cha kuen]

Fighting Skill, personal development, patience, calmness, character, relaxed body and more!

[Phenix]

Originally posted by sel
phenix, that's a really nice way of understanding. cool!!

Thanks.

The SLT suppose to be simple, direct, clear, and fresh right?:D

[PaulH]

Hi David McKinnon,

If you don't mind, I'm curious on what you think of the way of SLT. For instance, what do you see in it as crucial to mastering the WC method of fighting? I also notice that you mention it as "a living text". In what sense does it become alive to you?

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH

what do you see in it as crucial to mastering the WC method of fighting? I also notice that you mention it as "a living text". In what sense does it become alive to you?

Regards,


It is not about figthing it is about harmony ---- Bulletproof monk.

[Mckind13]

Hey Paul,

I will post tommorow if I have time but it is almost 1 am.

night

[PaulH]

Hendrix,

Interesting. What is the role of SLT in harmonizing the body and the mind then? How does one achieve this unity of body and mind through it from your perspective? I appreciate if you can speak plainly as I'm not into metaphysics.

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrix,

Interesting. What is the role of SLT in harmonizing the body and the mind then? How does one achieve this unity of body and mind through it from your perspective? I appreciate if you can speak plainly as I'm not into metaphysics.

Regards,


I'm not into metaphysics also.

How do you do SLT without mind?
How do you direct your body while doing SLT?

Simple and not metaphysics right?:D

[PaulH]

Hendrix,

Thanks. Quite plain! But how do I know this is your “original” mind speaking and not another clever lie? Do you “not mind”? Ha! Ha!

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrix,

Thanks. Quite plain! But how do I know this is your “original” mind speaking and not another clever lie? Do you “not mind”? Ha! Ha!

Regards,



First check if you stop breathing habitually when you do anything.
any stop breathing is not nature.

Second check if you freeze you mind habitually when you do anything.
any freezing is not nature.

Third Check if you tense part of body habitually when you do andything. any tensing is not nature.

simple right?


so , how to do a Tan sau with all above criterials?
some train for a whole life time and not look into these...but expect to be great.

How to expect to have a flow like water nature? and feel lite like silk. and heavy like mountain.... where is the technology?



That's why I argue. Name and brand provide not much. Frame of Sifu just a name.
natura is the core. and return to nature is the essensial of SLT.
So how to define nature? the above definition is as simple as possible, right?


There is nothing about metalphysic or Chan talk or .....
all is natura and tangible.

why is one get sick? alots because violating the natural with bad habit as describe above.

Talking about fighting? that is about application and the use of mind/qi/body. so, get the mind/qi/body natural. the rest will flow...

[PaulH]

Hendrix,

Thanks for the plain talk. I remember what you said when I do SLT.

Regards,

[dezhen2001]

thanks for these posts hendrick... they are sounding more and more like what i am being taught in both my wing chun and qigong studies :)

dawood

[Phenix]

There is only one wck and not two.
There is only one wck and no olderst.
There is only accord to nature and not forceful.

There is relative time, space, methods.... due to one will response differently while listerning to a pice of symphony or hot rock.

Can one flow without self? only then one flow naturally.
Time and space transform
and it is about grace not about power.
it is about peace not about anger.
It is about harmony can get what we want not about revenging the Qing which has past 100years ago.

Only there and then, the best possibility of our energy reveal without being block by ourself and our Self-attached-mind.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrix,


Hendrix,

Thanks for the plain talk. I remember what you said when I do SLT.

Regards,



Regards,


Live is simple.

either one has it or not.
It is about experience not about words ..


By the way, i have nothing to do with Jimmy HendriX
Get the experience then don't have to worry about words....:D

[PaulH]

Hendrix,

What you said about body being light like silk cloth waving in the air sounds like an apt description of a ghost. "The Shadow" may know the answer to this but he is not visiting me tonight. Meanwhile, this puzzle is causing unbearable heaviness in my being. No "song" is possible tonight in this frame of mind. I have dilligently searched for hours in the remaining ashes of your telltale forum posts with no phoenix yet in sight. Did you actually experience this fantastic feat or just another dream where all your wishes come true? How does it work in plain English? By the way You did a fantastic job the last time. I am gratefully in your debt. Can you please do the same magic twice?

Regards,

[Phenix]

"What you said about body being light like silk cloth waving in the air sounds like an apt description of a ghost. "
"The Shadow" may know the answer to this but he is not visiting me tonight. Meanwhile, this puzzle is causing unbearable heaviness in my being. No "song" is possible tonight in this frame of mind. I have dilligently searched for hours in the remaining ashes of your telltale forum posts with no phoenix yet in sight. Did you actually experience this fantastic feat or just another dream where all your wishes come true? How does it work in plain English? By the way You did a fantastic job the last time. I am gratefully in your debt. Can you please do the same magic twice?


You need to let go and examine everything.
one by one. one by one...
phoenix will raise only after one burn into ashes.

Belive and one shall meet.
Give up tensing , breathing with ease....and silk is indeed floating....

Before the dawn is a total darkness....... some belive and some don't.

without going through deep winter there is no plum flower.

[dezhen2001]

it is about grace not about power.
it is about peace not about anger.
great movie! :D

are these all sayings from your Yik Kam wing chun (minus the bulletproof monk quote)? Very interesting, as i know some of those are also found outside wing chun in chinese culture :)

dawood

[PaulH]

Hendrix,

I guess that means no. But hey, at least you are getting closer at your venerable age! I'm like a little kid who keeps asking "Are we there yet?", so do bear with me at least for a short while. What I don't quite get is if it is so natural why is it so hard to do? Are we that warped in the mind? Okay, don't say it. My blinking eyes can't see too well when you keep pointing those fingers. One should have faith that it will happen naturally. The force is with you, but you have to let go. Just SLT once a day and more will do no harms. Well one thing I know for certain that I'm not a Jedi yet. Ha! Ha!

Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrix,

I guess that means no. But hey, at least you are getting closer at your venerable age! I'm like a little kid who keeps asking "Are we there yet?", so do bear with me at least for a short while. What I don't quite get is if it is so natural why is it so hard to do? Are we that warped in the mind? Okay, don't say it. My blinking eyes can't see too well when you keep pointing those fingers. One should have faith that it will happen naturally. The force is with you, but you have to let go. Just SLT once a day and more will do no harms. Well one thing I know for certain that I'm not a Jedi yet. Ha! Ha!

Regards,


It takes 30 mins to go to san francisco from san jose.
So, even if the direction is perfectly correct. it still takes 30mins.
No one can do that 30mins but oneself. as for the direction

certainly one has to trust the map.
But then after you arrive san francisco you will know it is simple and all your driving is not a waste.

It is so naturall but hard to do because we have long passed the day we are baby but corrupted by our environment... Now that needs to be undo. Not easy but can be done.