bodybuilding + kung fu = ?????

[shaolin hitman]

what is everyones feelings on bodybuilding and kung fu ?

i have been told that i would never be as proficient as i should be by mixing my two favorite hobbies. currently i am 6'3 290, i had a few years off from kung fu training but i am back for life.
currently training in shaolin but i want to move to hsing yi training within the next few months.
i had to step up my cardio so i can practice forms for long periods of time. almost as flexiable as i used to be.

will my hsing yi training not be to it potential ???

this is a slippery slope i have been walking for a while.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think there is conflict, provided both are in harmony and are not providing detriments to the other.

Hsing I is close range fighting. Close range is where a body builder excels in strength expression and position (from my own viewpoint and experience, heavy+muscular+strong works well in short range).

So long as your bb training is not impeding your hsing i, they can work together quite well.

Be aware that there are many internalists that are against standard weightlifting. They have their reasons. And they are worth listening to as well.

In the end, if you can find balance that will allow excellence in both, then go for it.

cheers

[freedom76]

My only two concerns regarding the mixing of bodybuilding and kung fu is that I've noticed that bodybuilding often times reduces the flexibility of the individual and the isolation used in weigh training. Additional strength is beneficial but, from what I've noticed, bodybuilding is isolated muscle strength (a particular group at a time), while kung fu deals with whole body strength. A difference, that's all. Also, I'd recommend for anybody to make sure that a lot of stretching and flexiblity IMPROVEMENT is done. Not just for warm-up but o continue to get more flexible. Flexibility improvement is often overlooked by martial art schools as a regular part of the curriculm.
I don't think there is a conflict, everybody has things they are good at and things they aren't so good at in their training. Just have fun and practice. You'll be able to put your own spirit into your movement, bring out the art.
I think we all have a lot a preconceived ideas about this or that, none of which really matters to you. Find out what you can do, then let us know if you can find harmony between the two. I think you can.

[shaolin hitman]

the felxability is only a issue with my shoulders when training shaolin.
when performing hooks they are not a high as they used to be. holding the spear out in front of me, my shoulder get tired quickly.

cardio is a whole other problem, trying to work on that daily.

i think i can pull it off, i was just wondering if anyone else had the same issue.


thank you all for your advice

[Waidan]

I train bagua and I do a fair amount of weightlifting also. In my opinion, most of the "conflict" between IMA training and weight training can be resolved if the practitioner is careful to separate the mechanics of the two activities.

With many exercises (as I'm sure you know) the intention is to isolate the target muscle for maximum effect. This is never the case with IMA. In order to use xingyi or any internal style effectively, the body must work as a single unit. Training muscle groups independantly can work to undermine a student's efforts to achieve this full-body "gearbox" type connection, if they aren't careful.

[shaolin hitman]

thats the logic i was missing.
i was reading a hsing yi book and the teacher said the student ruined his body for training cause he was lifting cattle and bulky.

thank you now i at least know what i am not suppose to do.

when i talk about lifiting in the school everyone kinda looks away like i just told a dirty joke to nuns or something

thank you again

[Waidan]

Don't mention it. :)

In my old school, the head instructor was 100% against weightlifting, or really any form of "hard" conditioning. In general, I agreed with him regarding the importance of being "soft" for purposes of acheiving a high degree of sensitivity and connection. Muscle tension definitely hampers a fighter's ability to transfer energy smoothly and to be responsive to an opponent's subtle actions. But (my personal belief) muscle mass != muscle tension. Proper stretching and plenty of chigung should work to remove undue tension in the body. And standing in San Ti for a half-hour is hard enough without your shoulders being raised to your ears ;)

[Former castleva]

"when i talk about lifiting in the school everyone kinda looks away like i just told a dirty joke to nuns or something"
Sounds wacky.

I have seen shots taken at weightlifting but I´m yet to see any arguments being backed up.

Benefits are considerable,a lot of that is very difficult to get elsewhere (improved coordination won´t hurt either) Of course you isolate those muscles,that´s the way to gain strength in a controlled manner (for balance)
Some recommend to combine lifting with ma for maximum efficiency,well conditioned body helps a lot.

"muscle mass != muscle tension."
...tiny muscle=relaxed muscle?
Sorry,but I cannot buy into this (realizing that it was your personal belief of course)


Of course in the end of the day,it all comes down to what you really,really want to do.
My advice,if you want to do it,you do it.

[joedoe]

I asked my sifu this same question and he said it was OK as long as a few specific tendons were not damaged in the weightlifting.

To my mind, weightlifting might only be a detriment to your kung fu if it leads you to rely on the strength you have developed rather than combining your strength with your technique.

[GeneChing]

"I’ll probably think about slowing down when I’m 80" - gotta respect that.


Kung Fu bodybuilding champion aged 75 proves you're only as old as you feel (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kung-fu-bodybuilding-champion-aged-4530404)
Oct 29, 2014 16:29
By Simon Keegan

Roger Thomas, from East Sussex, has won a prestigious bodybuilding contest in the US thanks to training seven days a week

A Kung Fu fighting pensioner has battled his way to a body building championship.

Roger Thomas, 75, works out five times a week to give him the kind of physique men half his age would envy.

On the other two days he can be found studying the Chinese self defence art of Wing Chun, a type of Kung Fu.

Roger, a retired office worker from Worthing, East Sussex took up Kung Fu and bodybuilding at the age of 68.

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4530409.ece/alternates/s615b/Roger-Thomas.jpg
Great shape: Roger has a body the envy of men half his age


His impressive biceps and six-pack led to him being crowned Greater Gulf States Bodybuilding Champion which holds some of its events in New Orleans.

Roger said: "I've always been quite fit, and played a lot of sport, but I only began lifting weights after my 68th birthday.

"I've got a long way to go to catch up to some of these guys who have been doing it all their lives, but I've made lots of friends and have great fun doing it.

"I'm happy with the results, and if I get medals, that's just the icing on the cake.
http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4530407.ece/alternates/s615b/Roger-Thomas.jpg
Dapper: Roger looks great in his suit when he's not flaunting his biceps

"It keeps me going, and learning Kung Fu is fantastic and great fun.

"I highly recommend it to anybody who has ever worried about being safe."

The Worthing Herald reports that he also recently came third in the senior category at the British Natural Bodybuilding Championship in Manchester.

He said: "I’ll probably think about slowing down when I’m 80 – maybe I’ll just go to the gym three times a week then!”

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4530408.ece/alternates/s615/Roger-Thomas.jpg
Chilling: Roger on a rare moment when he isn't training

[bawang]

talking about or practicing "soft" "internal" training was punishable by death in the medieval chinese army due to "spreading of delusions, outrageous impossible claims and disruption of normal training"

an ancient term is "perverse training" "the evil way"

in kung fu, teaching fighting technique that does not work is considered an act of evil, because it will lead to the death of your student.