Wristlocks.

[Mr Punch]

Well?!

Of course, if you practise them AND have used them in sparring/ring/fight situations, choose one of the top options, not the third/fourth.

Also, if you used them please post and say whether they were standing/on the ground... And perhaps your definition of how it was un/effective (what was your objective? Structure breaking, takedown, projection, immobilisation, pain compliance, bone/joint breaking... etc)

Anything else to add?:)

BTW, my personal experience (sparring) is they can be effective for breaking structure and occasionally pain compliance.

[Cheese Dog]

I have used them in sparring, both standing and on the ground. I have found them particularly useful as part of a combination, such as going from a series of strikes, into a trap, into the wristlock, as they move to get out of the wristlock use their motion to take them into another lock or a throw.

[Mr Punch]

Cheers Cheese. Which of your styles have you trained wristlocks in, and which of those are the most effective?

[Cheese Dog]

Almost exclusivly in Ryukyu Kempo. (I'm sure they do wristlocks in Hung Gar and Hsing-I, but my training in them is still rudimentary). Kempo is very heavily influenced by Wally Jay's Small-Circle Jujitsu. My favorite is the bent arm wristlock, with the reverse being a close second.

[neit]

wristlocks are good, but i'd rather go for a larger more dependable joint. they are great if you can pull it off though.

[Richie]

I think waistlocks and and other chin na works. However, I feel most people including a lot of Sifus can't use them in a fight.

[Oso]

As usual, only effective if you train them as live as possible. I don't attack the wrist with a lock on purpose but am aware of that option as it presents itself. I think I use it more in combination with an elbow or shoulder lock as a submission.

[Cipher]

From what I have found it seems to be more of an option once I enter trapping range and when you are on the ground. Once you make contact and are fighting at that range rather than blocking a punch and then trying to wrist lock them.

[dezhen2001]

i have trained aikido and Doshin So's shorinji kempo and found them to be effective. For me i have no set purpose, just do whatever happens. one example - i especially like using a kempo variation of the aikido nikkyo, when someone grabbed my forearm as my hands were up palm out. he tried to punch with his other hand but i moved offline, applied the technique and he crumpled to the ground. i was still standing and aware of the other clubbers aroud me :)

i think its especially useful for the footwork and control of the persons balance and centre. but i think you have to be of a good enough level so you can easily change to something else, flow and even counter easily.

ive even found oppertunities when i play wing chun chi sau to do some locking stuff :)

dawood

[Cheese Dog]

Dezhen, nice going at the club.

I've also found sticky hand practice a great way to work on your standing grappling! The more sensitive you are the easier the locks become.

[dezhen2001]

actually i was pretty shocked to be honest - i guess because i trained my wrist and things was more flexible, whereas the guys wasnt. i didnt even have to apply it much.

sticky hands is great as it works on the most important range i think - when anything can happen :)

dawood

[HopGar]

I've used wrist locks more than once successfully. The first time was in sparring, just simply reversed his grab on my wrist and forced him to the ground. Second time was to control a ****ed off guy who was about to go after someone 1/2 his size. Was a bit harder to pull off, but did successfully. Mind you, I like to also controll a bigger joint as well, say the elbow, so the opponent's arm can not reverse it nearly as easily.

See y'all

[Shaolin-Do]

Wrist locks are alright, Tend to leave the other arm more open than an elbow lock, little harder to control lockee also...
:)

[Becca]

Don't spar much, but the self-defence versions of every form I know uses them atleast once, either to redirect a punch to set them up for a choke hold or take-down, or to pull them into an awaiting elbow.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Wrist locks are alright, Tend to leave the other arm more open than an elbow lock, little harder to control lockee also...
:)

You almost always going to get a sucker punch with grapling. That's why you do neck/kideny/grion/ect conditioning.

[Mr Punch]

Wouldn't call it a sucker punch... you have to recognise that you're gonna get hit on the way in sometimes. And I'd say that adrenaline goes as long a way as 'conditioning'...

What forms of conditioning do you use Becca, for your neck/kidney/groin?

And from the previous post, you have self-defence forms as distinct from your... what forms exactly? And what's the difference? Not ragging ya, just wondering...

Feel free to answer on a new thread, as I'm about to revive this one maybe...!

[Mr Punch]

Yeah good work Dez... and I agree most of the people I've trained against (especially the kick-punchers) have happily inflexible wrists.

I've only pulled one off in a real sit and in sparring against a free strike when I've stepped in and struck them first. Also agree on the range, and often use them in chi sau, esp kotegaeshi and nikkyo on the end of a lap... Though I have to say, I don't look for them, takes too long and too many fine motor skills to be able to pull one off without telegraphing... though again, you can set them up with a strike or two, but then I just usually wanna keep hitting, move in for elbow then head control and down!

But Shaolin-do, which wristlocks are you saying leave the other arm freer and the lockee less controlled? What are you trying to do, take them for a walk?!:D

(One of my aiki sempai, a slight man in his late sixties, actually did this with one lockee on the street... walked him 3/4 of a mile to the police station apparently... dunno what kind of lock he used though... may have been an elbow control, or even the Home Office thumblock that the police used for restraint before those jolly little plastic tags...)

[dezhen2001]

hey Matt - yeh that was back in the days - ive mellowed out too much now and lost my edge/mindset - dont think i could defend myself very well right now if push came to shove :(

Im the same as you - dont look for them - they are incidental, kote gaeshi works pretty well against grabs, thats usually when i use it, but thats as im moving offline and striking as well. Chi sau is interesting in that respect :)

in shorinji kempo we learned some arm control techniques that i guess could be used to walk a person a while hehe, personally i wouldnt do that though...

Shaolin Do - what locking leaves you open? (apart form one you screwed up?) one of the main ideas is first to get off the line of attack, take the persons centre/balance and position yourself so that they cant hit you very easily :confused:

dawood

[dezhen2001]

oh i forgot to say - my wrist are still pretty unflexible compared to people who just do aikido, but thankfully in SLT the "withdraw fists" action of rotating the hand and the "huen sau" help a lot :)

dawood

[tsunami surfer]

I only use them when putting handcuffs on badguys