taiji mantis (PM Taiji)???

[daohong]

grettings,

While those of us in this forum study northern praying mantis gongfu, many people here spend a good deal of time studying and pracitising Taiji to keep a balance to our studies. Can anyone educate me and those interested in Taiji mantis?? What is its relation to Taiji and its major styles if there is any relation. Also, for those of you who are more experienced , how can we more effectively incorporate The major taichi styles into our combat as practitioners of PM?? I have been a little suspicious for a while that Taiji can be a superior combat art when compared with most any gongfu style. I know that any thoughts at all will help.. Thanks....

[NorthernMantis]

My sifu is both an internal stylist and external since her husband is a internal master and my grandmaster external master. Neither is superior to each other as they both have the same results and have a little of each other imbeded in their styles. What matters is what you make of it.

While I'm no exponent in tai chi tong long I have a classmate of mine's who practices ta ichi tong long of the Chiu Chuk Kai lineage. From what I can tell it's not a combination of mantis and taiji but they are taught in the system side by side (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure mantis 108 can add more to this since he actually practices the system. Currently we translated a commemorative book to the late CCK (through a classmate from Taiwan) and it sates that the style incorporated chen style tai chi. However the footwork seems to be different than most styles of tai chi that I have seen. I didn't notice it later when my classmate tried to learn taiji under my sifu and had problems with the footwork.

[mantis108]

Hi Daohong, Northern Mantis and All,

First off, thank you Daohong for the interesting thread and Northern Mantis for sharing your observations.

CCK TCPM has 3 Taiji hand forms, 1 Taiji sword form and Push Hand drills in its curriculum. I believe only the Taijiquan and the sword are from Chen Taiji which I was told belongs to "small circle" (non Fajing) side of the Chen family Taiji. The other 2 Taiji forms ( Taiji palm and Solo Push Hand) are from a Taoist temple located in the Shandong province. But I must caution though that Solo Push Hand, which is my favorite among the 3, might not be from the temple since there is no documentation nor much conversation available at all. Although the forms are from different sources, they are performed with same flavor. That is to say that they are all relatively middle to high frame without fajing.

Then come the question whether Taijiquan compliments and even incorporated into Taiji Tanglangquan at all? I can share with you my personal experience which does not in any way, form, or shape imply any degree of attainment. It is just an opinion formed by working with the curriculum designed by Grandmaster Chiu Chuk Kai.

When people talk about Chen style Taiji, they often think of the remarkalbe fajing that goes with it. Just as there is the power fighter and there is the finesse fighter, there are 2 different approaches to Chen style Taiji as well. The time that I met Sigung Chiu he was in his golden years. My experience in training under him tells me that his focus was for us to develop the finesse in our Kung Fu. So we starts our training with the Taiji forms as warm up, etc... At first, I thought this was the main reason to the non fajing. Later, I realize it has more to do with overall cohesiveness of the system. The swift fluidity of TJPM forms would seem rather hesitant if Chen style type of Fajing is added to it. The mantis identity IMHO would be at risk. However, the round and continuous flow of the mantis is augmented by the Taiji. Of course agruably that the fajing lends an extra umph to the mantis forms. Anyway, this was the vision that he prescribed. If we look into the fundamentals, we will realize that the stances reflects a hormonization of the 2 seemingly different styles. The Taiji stance (aka 7 stars stance or stamping rooster stance) has the extended foot not hooked like the TJPM counterparts but more like the Taiji counterparts. The hands position is also differ from the traditional TJPM requirement. These are more obvious to the eyes.

On the "internal" side with regard to fighting, there are the six disciplines or otherwise known as liuging of Taiji (listen, run, adhere, neutralize, explode, and capture) to manipulate energy in conjunction with the Mantis techniques. This is trained through push hand drills both fixed routines and free stlye. This would be best sample by touching hands.

Final thoughts on the matter is that there are certain similarities in Chen style Taiji old frame and TJPM training methodology. Most notable would be that Chen style has softer version of Kao Da impact training. Speaking of Kao Da, it is a great method in getting the students to understand striking with the forearms. However it would also encourage them to "blindly" use their power in lieu of proper techniques. In other words, the hands, or the body for that matter, process dead and hard strength not the lively Ging. Often this would spill over into other drills such as Pai An. Taiji training, especially push hand, is an excellent remedy to cure the problem.

Northern Mantis,

You mentioned the book. Is that the one with the wooden dummy form?Great that your Kung Fu brother has it. :) I would just like to mention, in case you are interested, that there would be an article about the wooden dummy training written by me in the upcoming issue of "Mantis Quarterly" put together by Sifu Steve Cottrell.

Regards

Mantis108

PS if you are interested in found out more about CCK TCPM, please click the link provided with my signature below.

[daohong]

Mantis 108 :

Thank you for that reply. I appreciate the time you put into it and I have read it several times already. It makes me feel comfortable to pose another question regarding this topic when I am ready. Thanks again....

[mantis108]

You are most welcome. Glad to be of help. Looking forward for further discussion on the topic too. Thanks.

Regards

Mantis108

[daohong]

Manits108,


Can you tell me how to start getting "Mantis Quarterly"?? I have heard about it twice now, but I don't know how to get it in my hands.
Thanks again.....

[mantis108]

The "Mantis Quarterly" is current accepting subscriptions from schools and organizations only. Individual may have to go through his/her school or organization to obtain one. Contact Sifu Cottrell; his online handle here is MantisSifuFW (?). May be you can sent him a private message via the KFO function. It is an excellent publication focused on PM materials.

Regards

Mantis108