footwork technique based??

[TjD]

theres been some discussion about lineages footwork:

this lineage has these steps (circular, blindside, etc)
this other lineage doesnt have those steps but has these steps (triangle stepping, etc)

and so on

is footwork really taught this strictly? everyone says wing chun is not technique based, the way footwork has been described it seems that the footwork IS technique based? :confused:

in my school the footwork is much more dynamic and involves more serious investigation of wing chun's principles and your body. sure there are the steps in the forms, but when used things are much more dynamic. the steps aren't grilled as techniques, rather they teach you the different energies that the legs can use with wing chun structure and its power generation.

we take our knowledge of good body mechanics gained from the arms, and apply them to the legs. we have wing chuns principles and tan/fook/bong energy in the legs. experimentation and use of these leg energies in chi sau/chi gerk/sparring lead to all good wing chun steps.

i don't understand how people can say "this lineage doesnt have this stepping, but this one does." in peoples personal experience some steps may work better - just as some hand motions work better for some people! But it's all there in the system. if you are doing wing chun, the footwork is there for you to find.

[reneritchie]

No, that's the ironic part, although there is some historical tradition in how the conceptual elements (directions and methods of displacement) have been used (though this will vary in terms of hand sets, dummy, pole, and knife).

Like everything, you should be able to take each conceptual element, hone it, then combine it on the fly with any other in application.

[Sam]

Fut Sao Wing Chun Kuen is known for it's footworks form "Siu Baat Gwa" and all of the forms contain footworks which refect the concepts of the individual form. http://www.geocities.com/wingchunbuddhahand/CURRICULUM.html

[TjD]

Originally posted by reneritchie
No, that's the ironic part, although there is some historical tradition in how the conceptual elements (directions and methods of displacement) have been used (though this will vary in terms of hand sets, dummy, pole, and knife).


the ironic part being that footwork is technique based? :)

[wingchunalex]

I think wing chun is technique based, but what makes the techniques work and be a cohesive whole are the theory behind them.

with that said. yes there are specific stepping techniques. step slide, retreating step, triagle step, facing step, shifting, etc.

if you didn't have the techniques to go off of then further knowlege of body mechanics would not be possible.

I'm sure there is some variation in names and the exact types of steping found out their, but i think that if a style of w.c. didn't have something like triangle stepping for example that it just has a different focus and a little different way of applying wing chun.

[Block]

Wingchunalex is right.

Although WC is guided by principles it still has at it's heart core techniques. All styles have to have hand techniques, kicking techniques and some sort of footwork techniques.

But it is in the application of these techniques that the difference is found between styles. And within the WC world the difference is down to interpretation of the principles and different teaching emphasises.

Footwork is incredibly important as this establishes your balance and root. Without precise footwork you leave yourself venerable and can not take advantage of proper body structure.

So initially footwork has to be taught meticulously. Later you can go on and learn to express power and feeling through your legs. But at any point in your movement, if you lose your WC structure then you are not doing WC.

[anerlich]

Without precise footwork you leave yourself venerable

One of the better typos I've seen :D

Footwork isn't complex. It's essentially quite simple. Taking a step is not a conceptually complex endeavour. Footwork is guided by principles and strategy.

I agree that lots of drilling footwork will make other aspects of WC far easier to implement.

[TjD]

Originally posted by Block
Wingchunalex is right.

Although WC is guided by principles it still has at it's heart core techniques. All styles have to have hand techniques, kicking techniques and some sort of footwork techniques.


i've got to disagree on this one. the arm-useage of wing chun boils down to the core movements of tan/fook/bong. these are not techniques rather a proper alignment of the arm/shoulder. everything else is just a blending of these mechanics. chi sau separates us from using pure technique and we can instead rely on the mechanics and what structure is correct at that moment.

relying on techniques limits you to the techniques you know. understanding tan/fook/bong and how to combine their structures gives many many more possibilities, and much more flexibility in what you can do.


Originally posted by anerlich
Footwork isn't complex. It's essentially quite simple. Taking a step is not a conceptually complex endeavour. Footwork is guided by principles and strategy.

I agree that lots of drilling footwork will make other aspects of WC far easier to implement.

this i agree with. but i dont think drilling footwork is any different than drilling tan/fook/bong - that makes WC far easier to implement. by drilling the footwork you get the core mechanics of whats going on in the legs. once we have the core mechanics we use our principles and train responses - especially after contact is there.

[fa_jing]

The type of footwork you use will affect the method that you use to generate your hitting power. And although there is just one cat (a particular combative problem to be solved), there are many ways to skin it.

I also think that certain weightings lend themselves better to different types of footwork.

[Block]

Without precise footwork you leave yourself venerable

One of the better typos I've seen

LOL I've got to re-read my posts. I had a good laugh when you pointed that one out.


i've got to disagree on this one. the arm-useage of wing chun boils down to the core movements of tan/fook/bong. these are not techniques rather a proper alignment of the arm/shoulder. everything else is just a blending of these mechanics

Hi TjD,

I see where you are going with this. A technique is usually defined by it's starting and stopping. But of course in WC we flow continuously. However, this is probably just a minor quibble based on our different definitions of what a technique is.

IMO tan/fook/bong are techniques with their own specific structure and applications (of which there are many). They can be each drawn out of the forms and executed individually. Same with the other movements in the forms.

Although in Chi Sau the arm only holds it's position for a moment, the structure/technique is still there.

It could be argued that mechanical structure becomes a technique when employed aggressively but again that's just quibbling.

Suffices to say I'll continue to call them techniques for lack of a better name but accept that through the continuous flow of combat they are more than that.

[sel]

footwork!!!!! LOL i'm getting the flashdance album out now. i can practice my entry technique to the beat.

[Phil Redmond]

I don't think that the Gu Yee Kuen, (Fat Sao) WCK Siu Baat Gwa form is too well known outside of Henry Leung's students.
Phil

[TjD]

Originally posted by Sam
Fut Sao Wing Chun Kuen is known for it's footworks form "Siu Baat Gwa" and all of the forms contain footworks which refect the concepts of the individual form. http://www.geocities.com/wingchunbuddhahand/CURRICULUM.html


looking at the page, do you always keep your legs so close together in the YGKYM?