Hung ga forms Choy ga, Choy Lit Fut forms and Jow ga video Clips ga

[SiHingJow]

Does anyone have any video clips from these systems or know of websites were they can be downloaded????? I notice most of all southern systems all the stance are the same.



















He that knows others may be Wise knows himself to be Enlightened Lao-Tse

[Jabb]

http://www.choyleefut.com.au/update/gallery.asp Theres some Choy Lee Fut videoclips.

I think almost all shaolin based kung fu has the same kind of stances, including northern styles.

[GreyMystik]

www.hungkuen.net has some vid clips

[SiHingJow]

Northern Kungfu stances are not as deep and low as southern styles. Northern uses more arcrobatics and kick than hand techniques in comparison to the southern styles. Northern style actually takes 10 yrs to learn. Southern stlye when it was created During the Manchu invasion of china was created so it could be learned to use for combat/ fighting in 3yrs. It took the Manchu longer to control southern china than it did nouthern.

[Jabb]

Originally posted by SiHingJow
Northern Kungfu stances are not as deep and low as southern styles. Northern uses more arcrobatics and kick than hand techniques in comparison to the southern styles. Northern style actually takes 10 yrs to learn. Southern stlye when it was created During the Manchu invasion of china was created so it could be learned to use for combat/ fighting in 3yrs. It took the Manchu longer to control southern china than it did nouthern.
Ok, well, atleast some of the basic stances seem to be quite the same (horse, bow, cat etc.) but I can see some differences.

[GreyMystik]

I would be very interested in where you get your information about the "time requirements" for learning "Northern Style" and "Southern Style", in addition to how you can possibly make such blanket statements in confidence.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

hey bro, whats up?
this is a vid that was posted up a few days ago by yutyeesam

http://hpccss.net/kevinchan/movie/pastmov4.wmv

i think its a pretty tight crane form.

train hard, get the fan down :)

peace

[dc_jowga]

http://www.atu.com.au/~wahnam/modules.php?name=News

you can also find some jow ga videos at http://www.chanskungfu.com

[ed78]

chow lay fut crane, nice

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ZhouJiaQuan
hey bro, whats up?
this is a vid that was posted up a few days ago by yutyeesam

http://hpccss.net/kevinchan/movie/pastmov4.wmv

i think its a pretty tight crane form.

train hard, get the fan down :)

peace

Anybody know what school this form is from (this particular dude I mean)?

[JAZA]

I think is from Lee Koon Hung Hong Kong school.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

is that were its from, i was wondering that as well.
thanks

[CLFNole]

Actually this footage was shot in the early 1980s. The person in the video was one of Lee Koon Hung's assistant instructors and can be seen in his book: Choy Lay Fut: The Dynamic Art of Fighting. I believe his name is Ng Chi Wai.

Peace.

[Ben Gash]

Sihingjow, the stancework in most traditional northern systems is at least as deep, if not deeper than southern styles. Also most northern forms only have a handful of kicks in them. You've been looking at too much wushu and listening to too many Wing Chun teachers.

[David Jamieson]

Also most northern forms only have a handful of kicks in them.

Hey Ben, this is not my experience. I have learned from Northern and southern styles and the Northern styles incorporate far more kicks and variety of kicks in the forms than the southern forms.

cheers

[Ben Gash]

Hi Kung Lek, however the Bak Sil Lum from Kuo Yu Cheong that you know is probably the extreme end of traditional northern kung fu in this regard. Variety is another issue, but in terms of numbers a famous Northern form such as Si Lu Zhaquan only has 5 kicks in it (and it's a very long form) , whereas a famous southern form such as CLF's Tuet Jin Kuen has 5 as well. Even shorthand forms such as Bak Mei's Sup Chi Kuen have 6 kicks. Wing Chun Chum Kiu has 15!!!
Higher level forms such as CLF's Fut Jeung have 17 kicks (and that's without counting the concealed ones). This doesn't even take into account the southern kicking styles such as Mok Gar, however this has a form known as 108 kicks (to be fair I have also seen this written as movements).
While I know and have seen northern sets that contain obscene amounts of kicking, but I've also seen southern forms that were similar in craziness. :D

[SiHingJow]

My statement about the time it takes to learn or master northen kungfu is based on the average student/ practitioner. I don't talk to "wing chun teachers" For those who wish to make accusations.
How ever i do stay in constant martial study. Northern kungfu because of the mountainous land in northen china rely on more kicking. Southern because of the flat landscape rely on lower stances and hand technique

[Ben Gash]

SihingJow, you ever been to southern china? Plenty of mountains. Also, believe it or not, not everyone works in a rice paddy all day thus developing a strong horse stance (that's not a dig at you, it's just another of these theories bandied about). There are umpteen northern styles, and many of them place less emphasis on kicking than many southern styles (Bajiquan springs instantly to mind). To make wild generalisations about them based on limited observations and ill informed socio-geographical data (there's masses of flat land in Northern China, as well as plenty of farms) is a pointless exercise. Now I know you are only repeating what many far more famous people than you have said before, but open your mind a little.
The Wing Chun thing comes from this 3 year story you're perpetuating. This story exists solely because you can learn all the forms in Yip Man Fatshan lineage WC in 3 years. However A) the first two hand forms and the pole form are pretty mind numbingly basic B) knowing all the forms doesn't mean you're any good. If you show me a Wing Chun guy with 3 years training and a Ying Jow Pai guy with 8, I'll show you a short hand guy in intensive care.
This story also ignores the other lineages of Wing Chun which have more forms. It's also evolved. When I first heard it a decade ago it was 10 and 20 years ;)
Any respectable Sifu will tell you that it takes 8-10 years to get to a good standard of expertise, northern or southern. Of course if the Sifu had begun teaching after only 3 years.........

[Ben Gash]

Anyway, who on there right mind is going to try and kick or jump on a mountainside?:confused: :confused: :confused:
You'd fall straight over for sure. You'd also need strong stances to keep balance. If the land was nice and flat then you could have higher stances and move around more. Where do these stories start?:rolleyes:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Ben Gash,

It doesn't take 10 years to learn wing chun unless you're pghysically challenged. It is such a simple style - for starters they don't move their feet and only flail their arms in cat figh slapping motion.

Good kung fu masters jump from rock to rock on a mountain side to surprise their opponents. Southern kung fu masters with tier low stance takes a long time to move up mountains or foot hills. Whereas, northern kung fu masters move at such high speeds and cover so much territory that the southern masters have no time to put together any form of co-ordinated defence. The trick is to move in small numbers at high speeds dominating the ground.

The southern kung fu master would just be sitting there and become still targets for very accurate flying kicks - like the tornado kick which can take down masses on advancing opponents.

[jmd161]

:rolleyes:


Ego_Extrodinaire,


You can't really be serious can you?

Have you ever taken a Southern Style of kung fu?


I've studied Northern styles like Bak Sil Lum (N.Shaolin) and Southern Styles like Cheung Kune Pai (Sung Style Southern Longfist) and Hak Fu Muhn (Black Tiger Style).What you said made no sense at all.

Yes in Black Tiger we have very low stances ,but we also have just about every kick that i learned in Bak Sil Lum.People read to much into that Southern Fist Northern Kicks rumor.Yeah we use alot more fist techniques in Black Tiger than my Bak Sil Lum training.

But we still can kick just as well as any northern style i've learned or have seen.

jeff:)

[ZhouJiaQuan]

of course he is not serious, let it go.
anywho from what i have seen, personal experience, the north kicks more and uses longer range. the south does not kick as much as a southern player the most kicks ive ever done in a traditional form is maybe 6, and that is a long form. the majority of those kicks being tornado kicks. the majorty of southern forms i know only have 1 to 2 kicks in them. my style, althoug southern, is combined with nothern shaolin. as far as the 5 main familys of the south go, what i have seen they dont kick much(lok at hung for instance). only one is known for kicks and that is mok ga.

when i kick, its application is low, never higher then the waist. (unless im just messing around then i'll through a head kick haha).

do no get me wrong many southern stylist have great kicking ability - my sifu as a young man and southern stylist was nasty with kicks, fast and strong. many nothern stylist have great hands so what does this all say, figure it out :)
but there are charateristics to nothern style and southern style - one can easily look at a style and say nothern or southern - just like you can look at one and say internal or external.
eventually they all cross some boundaries.

anywho thats all i will say, ill save the rest of my energy for sei ping ma :)

peace

[jmd161]

ZhouJiaQuan ,

I hear you on the kicks issue ,and i agree that Northern forms may have more kicks within them than Southern.I was speaking on the fact that although my Black Tiger forms may not have as many kicks as my Northern Shaolin forms do.That in Black Tiger we still practice many of the same kicks i learned in Northern Shaolin.

Black Tiger is a sister art to Hung Gar as i'm sure most already know.In our Hak Fu Kum Gong Form (Black Tiger Golden Buddha Form) Not only are there kicks ,but there are kicks to the chest and head as well.So much for the southern styles only kick below the waist school of thought.

Although we do kick below the waist 95% of the time.:p

jeff:)

[Ben Gash]

I just went through some of my resources, and in Bajiquan within the 4 hand forms there are only 8 kicks, and 4 of those are in Da Baji. No tornado kicks (which are far from uncommon in CLF). However the style is unmistakably northern. That there is a different flavour between northern and southern is not in dispute. However, saying that northern styles have higher stances is a lie, and saying they kick more is subjective.
Could you look at Shaolin longfist and southern mantis and say they were wildly different? Of course you could. Could you look at Omei fire dragon and Fukien Crane and say the same? You'd be pushed.
Fukien flying crane has lots of kicks. Southern white crane has lots of kicks. CLF has lots of kicks. Fut Gar has lots of kicks. Mok Gar has lots of kicks. Wing Chun has lots of kicks (indeed Leung Ting once went in a TKD mag proclaiming his guys kicking was superior to theirs). Dog boxing's signature is it's kicks. Some lineages of Lung Ying from Canton have a surprising number of kicks including tornado kicks. Even Hung Gar is famous for one of it's kicking techniques.
Do they butterfly kick? No. Is the expression different? Often. Do they kick more in their forms? sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[Jabb]

CLF has a lot of kicks, but some of the kicks come from northern styles, since it is a combination of northern and southern shaolin.

Is this discussion about how many different kind of kicks there are in the system or is it how often they are used in forms? I know 14 kinds of kicks in CLF including 2 different kinds of butterfly kicks and I think theres more. About the forms, I've seen forms where kicks are used more and then some forms that has only few kicks.

Somebody (can't remember who) on these forums said that the phrase "northern feet, southern hands" is mistaken, he said that it actually means that northern systems emphasis more legwork (moving, evading, attacking quickly and yes, a little more kicking) and is not as static as some southern systems. Anyway, I think southern styles have good amount of kicking in them, maybe some of them are static (ie. wing chun, I don't see a lot of moving in it, correct me if Im wrong) but some can be as fluid as northern styles.

[SiHingJow]

James Lew has a tape on chinese kicking techniques.
Can anyone explain the true differences between northen and southern. Like my boy "ZhouJiaQuan" was sayin southern styles have less kicking than northern. Also does northern style operate on the same principles of the mu-ying and Yow-Ying of southern styles???????????/

[ZhouJiaQuan]

ok, i have som left over energy after sei ping ma :)

ben, you are correct, hung gar is famous for its mo ying gerk, which by legend wong fei hung traded for with another master(cant remeber all the details). This is a good kick, nothing like the movie portray. it is also famous for many of its hand techniques. so famous that my style is formed from the "hung tao", head/hannds/upper body of hung.

kicking being superior, and more kicking are not the same things :) leung ting i beleive also modified his wing chun, if i am thinking of the same person? i cant remeber the name now though.

jabb, you bring up an interesting point around the nothern feet, southern hands saying. some southern styles do indeed seem to be static,ie yip man wing chun, however i have heard there are other lineages of wing chun which are not as static, i have not seen them though. but there are sotuher styles such as choy gar which are known for there "Bo" - by this i mean footwork. hence my style also being "choy mei", tail/bo/footwork of choy.
so there were southern styles known for both hand technique and footwork. the footwork is used quick to close the gap, evade and hands are used to destroy.

what i have noticed in southern vs. nothern kung fu is that the stances are not higher, ie horse is still low, but nothern styles tend to stand up more.

now as for kicking below the waist vs. above the waist. i really think this has changed alot with ring fighting such as san shou. as well as continous sparring and things of that nature. people vary rarley fight with there style and techniques they learned in forms etc... instead they see people throw head kicks, and they do that. noth, south, doesn't matter. they all throw round kicks and side kicks and hook kicks to the head. there is a difference between how your style kicks and how you kick. how many people train a kung fu style, but also train for san shou? you take the style and from your own experience, it becomes individual. you adjust it to suit your needs. a tall person will fight different then a smaller person even if they do the same style. a san shou fighter will adapt his style in order to suit his needs to get the opponent off the lei tai, or to get points, etc... so a hung gar guy kicks starts kicking to the head, go figure.
if i wasn't for my sihing, i would never train kicks high, he was a nothern stylists before he learned southern. however with the understanding of southern style, he will not throw high kicks in a street fight. nor will i, i might trap with legs, use them for leverage but never would i kick high, maybe highest groin :D

in the ring its one thing, real is someone thing else.


with that im out,
peace, train hard
(just my views, im young, maybe im wrong :p )

[Ben Gash]

I've kicked high for real, and never had any problems with it. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner mind. You know it's just astonishing how few BJJ masters I've ever been in a fight with outside a bar ;)

[ZhouJiaQuan]

glad it worked for ya :)

and im glad there arent many masters haning around bars, but you never know, some people are great fighters and can hide it.

ill stick with low for now...

peace

[tparkerkfo]

Wow, I can't beleive the things I am reading here. Too much finger flailing. LOL. Northern people kick because of mountains and southern people are in low stances becuase of flat lands. Wing Chun can be learned in X years. Wing Chun is an easy and basic system. Plus a lot of other stuff.

Do northern people live on mountain tops? How big are these mountains? I would argue that mountains have NOTHING to do with kicking. Nor does being taller. Flat lands do not have anything to do with low horse stance. Nor does being shorter. I have been in mountains and find it rather easy to do a low horse as well as doing a tornado kick. I have been in flat lands and find the tornado kick just as effective. The horse stance doesn't work any better there either. I wonder why most gymnyst are shorter than average rather than taller? Not directly linked to this topic, but people often say the northern people are taller and that is why they kick. Come on guys, use some common sense here.

Wing Chun comments are way off base. Wing Chun is a highly complex art and takes a while to learn. Any one who says different doesn't understand wing chun. THe funny thing though, few people stayed with Yip Man for more than a couple years. The forms are rather easy to learn in choreography, but very difficult to do right. Playing music only has 12 notes, but it can be very complex.

Common guys.
Tom
________
CHEAP AIRSOFT PELLET RIFLE (http://airsoft-shop.info/tag/pellet-rifle)

[ZhouJiaQuan]

wing chun is complex???
i always hear people saying one of the main reasons it is effective is that it is so simple :D :p




...you know maybe there should be a rule, you cant post on the forum until after you train for the day, at least 2hrs. and ill accept regulated classes as training, buut they must be at least 2 hrs. and if your instructing those classes, you better work out with them as well, unless of course your an old master, but in which case your prolly would not be reading let alone posting here...

:D

train hard

[tparkerkfo]

ZhouJiaQuan,

LOL, I'll second that motion. LOL. I just got done with my class, that is 1.5+ hours today. I'll get another one Thursday and another Sunday. LOL

I don't want to discuss wing chun as they have their own forum and we don't want them crashing in on our party. LOL. I am a wing chun guy myself, though I am doing Hung Gar as well.

WIng Chun simple? I laugh at that. Any one who says it is simple is silly and only understands it at a basic level. Wing Chun is very complex and difficult. It takes years to learn it correctly.

I think people misunderstand the words complex and difficult. Wing Chun is a minamal art in that it has only a small amount of hands. For simplicity we can say Tan bong and fook. There are more but these can be considered the core. There are only a couple stances and a couple forms. Two weapons, no more. So it seems simple. But is it? Music only has 12 notes, why are Mozarts pieces so difficult to master? Wing Chun is elegant, not simple. Learning an empty form is easy. Learning the ging and faaht is not. If it was easy, I would have it down by now. There are only a small handfull of people that really got the knowledge from Yip Man, maybe that is why people think it is easy.

Any ways, lets leave the wing chun discussion to the other forum as we don't want this one to go down the drain. We have our own Choy Li Fut issues here :D
Tom
________
VAPOR INFO (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[ZhouJiaQuan]

"WIng Chun simple? I laugh at that." - makes me picture an old kung fu movie :)

but dont worry my statement was a joke, i dont have much knowledge of wing chun(only contact i've had is my sifu used to share a school with a wing chun sifu - great sifu btw - one of yip mans students- he was good tear "expletive" up)

pretty much everything in its higher/internal/advacned parts is difficult.

but really i must say, y'all have it good if you dont train a low horse :p

train hard :D

(i said 2hrs not 1.5hrs - i'll let is slide this time)

[Ben Gash]

I never said Wing Chun was simple :confused: I said the first two forms are pretty basic , and I said that it was possible to learn all the forms in 3 years, which is true.
Personally I like the rolling structure of WC form training, the way that the principles are taught in a staged manner through the forms, so that as you learn a new principle you already have the other ones you need to make it work.

[tparkerkfo]

Hi Ben,

No worries. LOL. I was picking on ZhouJiaQuan. :D Heck, You could learn the forms in a single day if you have a good memory. But what do you have? You certainly don't have wing chun. I can show you all the hands in a week. But what do you have? Not wing chun. I can show you how to roll in a couple hours. But what do you have? Not wing chun.

These are all the externals. Any one can learn that. Heck, I know the forms, have a dummy, and know how to roll. I know the kuen Kuits, I know the theories, and I know the history. But that is not wing chun. There is much more than that. Chain punching is not wing chun. Applying them correctly is. That is the trick and that is what makes the art difficult.

Also, I note this is probably true of every art.

Tom
________
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