summing up the basics

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

last night at class something must have irked my sifu while we were sparring and he sat us all down to sum up the basics. it was kinda funny as everything he said about fighting reminded me of the mma guys here. im gonna sum it up the best i can, but i was really tired and kinda dizzy at the time. it's nothing we all havent heard before, but i from what i hear its uncommon for a cma guy to say.

first he described the only targets he feels are really worthwhile in a fight. there are others of course but his point was to keep it "as simple as fu cking possible for us." everyone is vulnerable below the knees ... attack the knees, shins, ankles, and instep. side kicks are good for the knees, front snap/stomp for the shin, saber (low thai kick basically) to the ankle, and stomps for the instep. he said the groin is an ok target, but its not a fight ender like most people think .... if you hit dead on it's gonna hurt them pretty good, but its harder to get a perfect shot than most people think. high you want to go for the triangle made by the nose and eyes, temple, and throat. dont bother hitting the jaw as if it ain't made of glass not going to do any good and you'd have been better off taking that shot to their nose.

if you want to be a good fighter work your side kick, thai/saber, front, and stomps ... jabs, crosses, hooks, and uppercuts. throws, grappeling, and joint locks are good to add in as well. work the bag, work the pads, and spar hard. to be a good figher you got to be in fighting condition so work cardio and hit the weights.

anyone want to add anything? he didnt go much into grappeling basics. although we do train a juijitsu its not his main thing. he thought it was important enought to crosstrain, but i still think he undermines grappeling's its importance to a small degree as we rarely work on anything more than juijitsus standing work. i think he liked juijitsu more for the throws, locks, and avialablity than anything so grapplers basics would be appreciated.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

knees/elbows/clinch.

im guessing takedowns but ill leave that for people who know more about it.

keep rooted, attack hi and low, try not move straight in and out .... work your diagonal steps.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

oh ... basic blocks and keeping your guard up as 99% of people are head hunters.

[MasterKiller]

You forgot to add the most basic Kung Fu principle of all: poke them in the eye.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

lol .. but my sifu didnt. he said, your going to go to jail if you take a tire iron to the guy who perches you at a stop light, but there's nothing wrong with gouging, biting, picking up a weapon when there's a serious threat.

[KC Elbows]

Don't get in the habit of every time you start in sparring, you circle and size each other up. You need to be ready instantly, fights aren't always gonna have time to size each other up.

[rubthebuddha]

something my sisok tells us regularly:

the best technique with done with half-intensity will lose every time a bad technique done with full intensity.

the message? don't just do what you know and think that's enough. DO what you need to win that conflict and don't stop doing it with full intensity until you know that they are no longer a threat.

[SevenStar]

If you're on the ground, appreciate the guard, mount and sweeps. From the clinch, appreciate knees, elbows, etc.

realize the destructive nature of many throws - while doing hiza guruma, don't hit the side of the knee - hit it head on. while doing ko soto gake, use your hand to drive his head into the ground. many "safe" throws have "blackhand" applications.

[Shuul Vis]

DONT FORGET DECEPTION! If its dark and there are other people around while the attacker comes at me, i usually just yell something like, "John stab him in the back!" or "Sam, shoot him!" That usually makes them hesitate for a second while i run away ****ing myself.

[tsunami surfer]

Now I know why I come here. I like deception also and never thought of those war yells. What a gem to find in the rubble. Thanks shuul vis!:)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

lmao ... i think that's the funniest da mn thing you have posted here so far shuul.

its also funny cause it actually does have some practical use.

.......explaining your name as the sound a man makes when a fat lady squishes him was petty funny too.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

kc ... i like that ... never thought of it.

rub ...
"the best technique with done with half-intensity will lose every time a bad technique done with full intensity."

im not sure if i agree with that or not. i see your point but ill have to think about it. i agree with not stopping until your certain they are down for good though... my sifu also says that all the time.

seven ... i got the first part, but you lost me in the second paragraph.

[SevenStar]

probably just because you may not be familiar with those techniques. I'll dig them up on judoinfo. Basically, I was just saying that there are combat versions of most of the "safe" throws that you learn.

[Serpent]

Don't forget the "mad b@stard face". Look like you'll rip their throat out with your teeth given have a chance and they'll be given a moments' pause.

Couple this with berserker yelling for added effect.

;)

[Serpent]

Also, the antithesis to this is the "totally calm dude" face, like you could be bothered to do something... maybe... then flatten them.

Also effective.

I think one works in contradiction to the other. If he's really calm, then go the psycho route. If he's going psycho, then be Mr Calm.

Didn't Sun Tzu say this in the Art Of War? Maybe I'm plagiarising.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Serpent
Maybe I'm plagiarising.

It sounds like good advice, so I'm sure you are.

[Serpent]

Thanks.

[Becca]

Serpent:

I agree with the really calm face/****ed off face idea, as long as you are only play-acting at being ****ed. Usually when someone is being calm in a fight, it is with the hope that it will **** off thier attacker and cause them to do something stupid. Acting angry while keeping a cool mind might trick them enough that they become over confident and leave something vital undefended. Strategy is 80% of everything involving two or more people.

[Mr Punch]

Becca
I agree with the really calm face/****ed off face idea, as long as you are only play-acting at being ****ed.
On the other hand, going completely fourty-four carot mad-as-a-bag-o-spanners nuttso flailing meat-grinder hatstand poke-em-in-the-third-eye rip-out-their-kidneys psycho has been known to **** on a few bonfires of aggression too...


Einstein
Strategy is 80% of everything involving two or more people.

That has to be 120% the most accurate statistic I've ever seen, within 3.5 percentiles standard deviation from the mean. Did you get that from Derek Zoolander?

'50% of the world's population is made up of water, and 98% wheat, and you know sometimes, that just isn't enough!'

I take it the other 20% is raw, beast-with-two-backs bumping uglies?:D

[Serpent]

Absolutely agree, Becca.

Except I'd be inclined to say it's more than 80% re: your last comment!

[Mr Punch]

Are you kidding Serpent, or have you lost your marbles?

That statement means marginally less than bugger-all as it stands.:D

[shaolin kungfu]

It means exactly 8.5% of bugger-all.

[Mr Punch]

I think that's rounded down. From 12.3491%.

[Becca]

And you men wonder why you loose argument with women when you were right all along... We usually have about 10 senarios planned out before we actually open our mouths.
I came up with that 80% through experience. you may have had diferent experiences with that strategy, but did you actually give it a go? trying once or twice, then giving up is like jumping into the deep end of the pool without knowing what swimming should feel like.

[shaolin kungfu]

80% of my experience tells me that 71.24% of one on one confrontations end with me running like a sissy. 43.654% of the time I get laughed at.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Serpent
Didn't Sun Tzu say this in the Art Of War? Maybe I'm plagiarising.

Sun Tzu has some very good advice. Letting your opponants trap themselves with preconcieved notions is good. Planting that notion is better. Makes it very easy to guess what is comming next.

[Becca]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
80% of my experience tells me that 71.24% of one on one confrontations end with me running lik a sissy. 43.654% of the time I get laughed at.

And that is bad why?

[shaolin kungfu]

It's only bad .4 % of the time.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Becca
And you men wonder why you loose argument with women when you were right all along... We usually have about 10 senarios planned out before we actually open our mouths.
I came up with that 80% through experience. you may have had diferent experiences with that strategy, but did you actually give it a go?

Touche.:rolleyes: Or touchy?!:p

I never have loose arguments. My arguments are always tight. Try 12 scenarios next time.

And then try thinking about those scenarios!

And then... change them all!

Repeat...

Then open your mouth... maybe...:D

Back to your original statement:
1) what did you mean by strategy?
2) what do you mean by 'everything'? I mean everything's pretty **** big... personal combat? War? Love? Board games? Facile statements? Anyone else wanna add to the list of everything?!:D:rolleyes:
3) with which testing procedure did you derive your 80%?

Puhlease.

Man, woman, Frenchman, proboscis monkey... talk smack, get smacked!:D


Alanis 'Ironic'
trying once or twice, then giving up is like jumping into the deep end of the pool without knowing what swimming should feel like.
Mixing your metaphors to back up specious observations based on bogus stats is like chewing your porridge with the blunt end of a goldfish bowl without knowing what chocolate chip cookies smell like.

I would hold that it's nothing like what you said.

I would love to continue this good natured banter, but I have to go to the supermarket to argue Keynesian economics with a root vegetable. :D

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
It's only bad .4 % of the time.

LMAO! You're the best!

3.2% of the time. 0.6% of KFOers agree, 8.1% of the end of time.

[shaolin kungfu]

0.001% of the threads on kfo stay on topic.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ha.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Mat


Back to your original statement:
1) what did you mean by strategy?


Strategy (SYN) - technique, management, tactics, approach



2) what do you mean by 'everything'? I mean everything's pretty **** big... personal combat? War? Love? Board games? Facile statements? Anyone else wanna add to the list of everything?!:D:rolleyes:


Everything - wasn't in my dictionary, guess they thought that was an obvious one



3) with which testing procedure did you derive your 80%?


All ready stated that I based that off my own experiences.



Puhlease.


Some sort of slang used to belittle women who are winning the argument?



Mixing your metaphors to back up specious observations based on bogus stats is like chewing your porridge with the blunt end of a goldfish bowl without knowing what chocolate chip cookies smell like.


??????
Didn't think you were that confused...

[shaolin kungfu]

Some sort of slang used to belittle women who are winning the argument?

I hate when women think something is aimed at them just because they're a woman. And you really weren't winning the argument. You were attempting to, but failed.

[Becca]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
0.001% of the threads on kfo stay on topic.

I think this is still 0.01% on topic... 3% verbal sparring, 2% deception, and 100% BS. We is summing up the basics in twisted humor.

[Mr Punch]

Some sort of slang used to belittle women who are winning the argument?

Maaaan!

Womaaan!

Who cares!

I've already told you it has no relevance to me even what species you are, let alone gender, but if your argument isn't (an argument) YOU LOSE!

But lets just say, I destroyed your 'argument', and just by the way, belittled you too... Don't sweat it: it happens... especially when you post nonsense on an open forum!:D I know, I'm an expert at this particular pastime.


Strategy (SYN) - technique, management, tactics, approach

Everything - wasn't in my dictionary, guess they thought that was an obvious one

Let me help you, as I don't think a list of synonyms quite cuts it as a relevant definition in this case:

'everything' was personal attack scenarios?

'Strategy' is fight strategy?

So, how are you distinguishing between strategy and technique? Or power? Or structure? Or energy? etc...

And the 80% is based on your personal experience of WHAT?... did you like, uh, count every sparring match you've won or lost (except that on another thread you've already mentioned you don't really spar) and said, we-e-ell, that one was strategy, that one was a power combination, that one was the crowbar... or what...?!


??????
Didn't think you were that confused...
While you're checking out 'strategy', 'everything' and 'meecrob', try checking 'satire'... use a growed-up's dictionary, not the Richard Scarry ABC to Cheesy ME Terminology...:rolleyes: :p


120% owned!

Wanders back to the vegetable aisle for some interesting conversation.

All in the best possible taste...!;)

[txwingchun]

I didn't notice yet so I'm going to say footwork.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i dont think it was mentioned yet either ...good one. that night my sifu mentioned using backward diagonal steps as a simple way to try and avoid takedowns ... his reasoning is that it gives you a split second to strike as the grappler readjusts and goes to shoot again. any grapplers have anything to add to that? wont work ... better way to do it?

[KC Elbows]

Just to **** off Mat, I'd say it's mostly strategy. Like 80%, if I arbitrarily had to assign a number despite the possible maledictions of the statistics police.:D

I mean, strategy is a factor. If I'm fighting a little fast guy who has moderate power, and I'm a big not as fast guy with big power, then my plan should not rely on me always beating him to the punch, just as his plan shouldn't rely on knocking me out in one punch.

[shaolin kungfu]

65% of me agrees with 14% of what has been said in the last 19% of this thread.

[shaolinboxer]

The most voulnerable point is the mind.

[Chang Style Novice]

Yeah, totally footwork. Nothing makes you easier to knock down, out, or both than bad footwork.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i may make a seperate thread about back diagonals to try and avoid take downs.

[FatherDog]

GDA: A backwards diagonal step can avoid a shoot if they're just shooting on you from a neutral position. A lot of the time, a good grappler will set a shoot up with strikes; in particular, they'll trade with you a bit and bait you into jabbing or throwing a cross, then they're duck that and turn the duck into a shoot. Obviously, you're not going to be able to step back if you're in the middle of a punch; at that point, you have to sprawl.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ok cool ... the sprawl is another to add to the list.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im usually petty successful with the sprawl even though im grappeling ignorant ... all i do is basically lay on the guy and throw my legs back. i fair alright as i have pretty good body oreintation from being the little guy people like to try to throw around, but are there any finer points that can be easily communicated in text? anything i should watch out for?

[Becca]

Ya. Watch out for former wrestlers, they are hard to sprawl OR take down. There's a little guy in my class who's only an inch or two taller than me and about the same wieght. Every time I try a side headlock on him I just bounce off him, but I can take down most of the bigger guys with it easily.
As far as how to avoid a sprawl if the grappler lured you in... Just keep moving. They need to get a grip on you at some point, and it's harder to grap a moving target. Most styles I know of have a set of "self defences" wich are refined and turned into forms so very new people can utilize them. Almost all of them seem to be how to keep a grappler from grabbing a hold.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
im usually petty successful with the sprawl even though im grappeling ignorant ... all i do is basically lay on the guy and throw my legs back. i fair alright as i have pretty good body oreintation from being the little guy people like to try to throw around, but are there any finer points that can be easily communicated in text? anything i should watch out for?

It's tough to go into details in text, but the two basics of a sprawl are

1) Level change. Drop your hips to match his

2) Legs back.

A good shoot involves a level change; the grappler will drop his hips before stepping forward. So practice dropping your level to match his as soon as he drops. Then shoot your legs back as he comes forward, and try to get underhooks on him (your arms under his)

If you just level change without shooting your legs back (like the 'sinking into stance' I see some people talking about) the grappler will grab your leg and rotate around it, using it as a handle to lift you out of your stance. If you just shoot your legs back without level changing, the grappler can get his hips under you and straighten his back, lifting you off the ground. You have to do both to foil the shoot.

Once you've sprawled, you're in good position to either stuff his head and get up, or throw knees.

[SevenStar]

Still gotta watch out even if you sprawl, though - a guy in my judo class used to wrestle - he actually WANTS people to sprawl, because he likes the fireman's. For some reason, sprawling makes it easier for him to get the fireman's

[Becca]

Originally posted by SevenStar
- he actually WANTS people to sprawl, because he likes the fireman's. For some reason, sprawling makes it easier for him to get the fireman's

What's a fireman's?

[shaolin kungfu]

Firemans carry. it's a wrestling move.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Still gotta watch out even if you sprawl, though - a guy in my judo class used to wrestle - he actually WANTS people to sprawl, because he likes the fireman's. For some reason, sprawling makes it easier for him to get the fireman's

If he's consistently getting the fireman's carry off of someone's sprawl, it means they're not lowering their hips enough on the level change (that's what I meant when I was talking to GDA about just shooting your legs back without getting your hips down.) Either that or he's catching them perfectly while they're still in the process of sprawling, in which case he's got way better timing than I do :D

[Becca]

Fireman's carry in wrestling is like the one taught to carry another person if they are injured, yes?

Like I said earlier, wrestlers are hard to sprawl or take down. It's like they have an advanced ability to read your body language and can set up for it before you even begine to move. And they just move away if you try a kick/punch combo on them. Haven't found anything that does work on a wrestler a majority of the time. Of course, it could be that I don't out right spare much. We take a series of moves and throw them at each other randomly to make each other think and to help us identify what attack is comming intime to properly employ the right self defence.

Anyone who spars regularly have something to add to that?

[shaolin kungfu]

Spar more.