going to a xingyi school tomorrow

[chen zhen]

What should I be looking out for? what things will show that it is a good school, and what will show that it is bad? It's my first time at a xingyi-place, so i would like some tips.

[iron thread]

It is good to see a standing posture called San Ti. It is a very important part of hsing-i and a hsing-i class shouldn't be without at least a little San Ti.

[CrippledAvenger]

Any other advice for prospective Xing Yi students? I'm thinking of checking out a place here later this week.

[Ray Pina]

Don't worry about San Ti -- they may be working on something else.

But notice if:

They stomp the floor: This is a poor understanding. Why stomp the floor? The floor is not attacking you, and you actually put your force down instead of out into the other. The power should be pushed off the back leg and driving ... like pushing a car. You don't stomp your feet to push your car ... all you will do is hurt your heel.

Shape: See if they maintain a strong shape close to their body ... no outstreched arms.

Listen to their speach: Hsing-I is about power, how to generate it from proper body mechanics. If they start talking about Water to beat metal and Fire to beat wood and this and that ... wrong understanding! Each element is an idea in power generation. The better man will defeat the other no matter what element he uses because they are actually all built into everything. The idea! The principle!

Basically: They should look like they can mess up some ****. Hsing-I is for beating somebody ... there is no BS dancing around.

You'll no its the real deal right away, because you'll be like :eek:

[CrippledAvenger]

Thanks for the info, EvolutionFist. I've heard nothing but good things about the art and the teacher, so I'm crossing my fingers.

Any other opinons on the matter?

[blacktaoist]

Mr. EvolutionFist,

What days are you at your teacher school, I like to check you out, as well your Teacher.

BT

[blacktaoist]

chen zhen,

What you should be looking for is power. The teacher should have power. His postures should be relax yet sunken and powerful.

The Hsing Yi Chuan teacher mind must be unified with his postures. When the teacher demonstrate forms or performs application, you should feel and see the teacher mind body link.

And the last thing in my opinion, find a Hsing YI Chuan teacher that can teach you his method. Because today there are some good Hsing Yi players, but few can teach others their skills.

Good luck.
BT

[Water Dragon]

If you're going to check out who I think you are, the best advice would be to bring your check book and sign up on the spot. :)

[CD Lee]

Number one: If you are new to the internals, by all means, have an open mind.

I would say, if what you see is very flashy or dancy, have second thoughts. Look for directness, and simplness. It is difficult to see what they are doing for power if you are new to the art. Black Taoist can see when they are sunken, elbows to knees, shoulders to hips, etc. A new guy may not know what that is.
It does not look like Karate or TKD.

BT makes a great point. Doing skills and teaching skills can be very different things. Communication that is clear would be nice too.

[Ray Pina]

I study on Tues (tonight) and Fri nights. Though this Fri is my b-day so I may not be there.

[chen zhen]

The teacher lived up to all those things. But the school is not really a formal school, the teacher stopped teaching formally years ago, and now he only teaches people who like to come, and who is interested in the IMA, and for a ridicously low amount of money. The place is really just meant as to teach XingYi as a supplement to other arts, as most of the other students where training in other arts as well on the side.
I thought it was a good place- I'm gonna start soon. The only throwback is that it is only 1 time a week.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by chen zhen
The only throwback is that it is only 1 time a week.

That's just an opportunity for you to train more between classes.

[blacktaoist]

Thanks for the reply EvolutionFist. I be seeing you guys soon.

Thanks.
BT

[swmngdragn]

Hello,

Just a thought on some of the comments........

<Don't worry about San Ti -- they may be working on something else.>

True enough. It's either san ti/pek chui, or beng quan/beng chui that's the immediate focus. <<shrug>>

<But notice if:

<They stomp the floor: This is a poor understanding. Why stomp the floor? The floor is not attacking you, and you actually put your force down instead of out into the other. The power should be pushed off the back leg and driving ... like pushing a car. You don't stomp your feet to push your car ... all you will do is hurt your heel.>

A "stomp" is not a "stomp" as you see it, E.F. The "stomp" is more of the brake on a car. It's intended as an incidental part of the understanding of the form(s). If you've bypassed the "stomp" entirely, then you've missed an important part of the progression of training. If you're "hurting your heels" then your alignment, and the necessary body condition is out of sync. "Stomping" is just an incidental, but integral portion of the training. <<shrug>>

<Shape: See if they maintain a strong shape close to their body ... no outstreched arms.>

Rather than look at "outstretched" arms, look more at the manner in which an arm may be stretched without violating the principles of the IMA. Is the arm locked at the elbow? If so, then that's a clear violation of the principles. If there is a curvature at the elbow at the end of a beng chui/beng quan then that's in agreement with the principles.

<Listen to their speach: Hsing-I is about power, how to generate it from proper body mechanics. If they start talking about Water to beat metal and Fire to beat wood and this and that ... wrong understanding! Each element is an idea in power generation. The better man will defeat the other no matter what element he uses because they are actually all built into everything. The idea! The principle!>

Agreed. However many can talk the talk. Very few can walk the walk. Fewer still have true understanding of their own body, and the principle(s) that it must adhere to in order for it to be a true IMA as opposed to an external form of an internal style.

<Basically: They should look like they can mess up some ****. Hsing-I is for beating somebody ... there is no BS dancing around.>

Looks can be deceiving. Essentially it's in the coordination of the movement(s) that count. The understanding of the body, and how it needs to be married to nature. I.E. real physical laws such as gravity, weight, circulation, relaxation, biology, kinesiology, breath, etc... In order to maximize the body's power with the least amount of interruption to it's breath.

<You'll know its the real deal right away..........>

Only if you really understand what you're looking at. *That* takes experience.

My 2 lire'.

[Water Dragon]

Drake,
You just answered a question that's been milling around in my head for the past month. Thanks.:)

[swmngdragn]

>Drake,
You just answered a question that's been milling around in my head for the past month. Thanks.<

My pleasure, Lar. If you need anything else feel free to e-mail me. I'm always ready to help when I can.

Drake

[CrippledAvenger]

Wow, this thread has really taken off while my back was turned...

WD-- :D

I've heard an unprecidented amount of good things about the man in question. I'm going to try to catch his XingYi class tomorrow night, classwork permitting. It seems that the two best places here in the city to learn how to hit things hard are his school and the Windy City boxing gym in Ogden. Either one should prove interesting.

Drake-- mind if I shoot you a PM? I have some questions that you might be able to answer.

Hell, now that I think about it, mind if I send you a PM too WD? I got a few questions on Xing Yi that I'd like your opinion on.

[Water Dragon]

Go ahead, but I doubt I'll be much help. I've only been doing Xing Yi for a few months now. I love it though.

[CrippledAvenger]

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe I should start another thread about the question I was going to ask, seeing as it's not really something sensitive or whatnot. might make for good discussion... hopefully.

[Ray Pina]

I notice -- and hear -- the stomping in other's form but never see it in fighting. How does the stomp act as a break? I apreciate the need for control, and that the back leg must reposition itself to drive again, but don't understand the necessity for the stomp. (speaking 100% of practicing as one plays)

Also, I don't quite get how the hard impact of one's heal to the floor would be reduced by proper alignment. I am hearing that impact, it is real. Now, correct alignment may reduce shock to the brain, but that piece of the body making hard contact to the floor can not be reduced. Ones punching mechanics will not save one's knuckles if they come into contact with a cement wall -- would they?

The reason I ask is because heal injuries are a real pain in the a$$. All they can give ya is one of those donuts. I'm genuinly curious and open to learn.

Thanks.
Ray

I won't reply, because I don't want to spend too much time here, but thanks again. Apreciate any and all insight.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I may be way off-base but my training regarding "stomping" differs.. A properly timed stomp with appropriate body alignment directs a shock wave along the alignmant to manifest itself in the application.. as a well-timed punch hits it's mark, a secondary power boost comes from a "power-push" against the ground.. certain pointless stomping for show is silly, but work with the heavy bags and you can notice how good timing and good alignment can add power through a "subtle" stomp.. even a snapping side-kick can be enhanced by dropping from the toes on the support leg to flat foot... power that drop by a sudden straightening of the bent-knee on the support leg and the heavy bag will show you the evidence.. (or a partner)..

Just another perspective, Be well..

[crumble]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
I notice -- and hear -- the stomping in other's form but never see it in fighting. How does the stomp act as a break? I apreciate the need for control, and that the back leg must reposition itself to drive again, but don't understand the necessity for the stomp. (speaking 100% of practicing as one plays)

Also, I don't quite get how the hard impact of one's heal to the floor would be reduced by proper alignment. I am hearing that impact, it is real. Now, correct alignment may reduce shock to the brain, but that piece of the body making hard contact to the floor can not be reduced. Ones punching mechanics will not save one's knuckles if they come into contact with a cement wall -- would they?

The reason I ask is because heal injuries are a real pain in the a$$. All they can give ya is one of those donuts. I'm genuinly curious and open to learn.


From what I've seen, the stomping is both a stomp and an end of movement thing.

After the back leg propels the whole body, the front leg ideally positions itself to the inside or outside of the opponents leg or on top of their foot. When done right, your foot/leg placement will either compromise their knee or crush their foot. I've heard the ideal as "walking through an opponent".

It also stops the movement. There is a classic injury that sometimes happens when people stumble down steps. If they land flat footed (especially on a downward slope), a lot of momentum is going forward, not down. The tendons in the ankle snap and the joint separates, the shin move forward out of the joint and stops over the top of the foot. (Learned that in sort of an EMT class.) If you land on your heel, the force goes through the bone into the floor, without using or straining the tendon. So it is the best, quick way to stop a lot of momentum.

But I hear what you are saying about heel injuries. If I'm training for a long time I wear running shoes for the shock absorbtion.


Anyway, back to the original question. I would say that the foundation of a good Hsing I class is the focus on the fundamentals. Mastery is nothing more than mastering the fundamentals. The fundamentals look simple, but they are complicated to learn.

So I would say: show up to many classes and see how they work on the details of the five elements (~punches). Is the class taught in a systematic way to give the student have whole body power... or do they go right into forms?

Good luck!

-crumble

[Carl M]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
I notice -- and hear -- the stomping in other's form but never see it in fighting. How does the stomp act as a break? I apreciate the need for control, and that the back leg must reposition itself to drive again, but don't understand the necessity for the stomp. (speaking 100% of practicing as one plays)

Also, I don't quite get how the hard impact of one's heal to the floor would be reduced by proper alignment. I am hearing that impact, it is real. Now, correct alignment may reduce shock to the brain, but that piece of the body making hard contact to the floor can not be reduced. Ones punching mechanics will not save one's knuckles if they come into contact with a cement wall -- would they?

The reason I ask is because heal injuries are a real pain in the a$$. All they can give ya is one of those donuts. I'm genuinly curious and open to learn.

Thanks.
Ray

I won't reply, because I don't want to spend too much time here, but thanks again. Apreciate any and all insight.


Actually, the "stomp" is to make sure the chi runs properly, and this is how you generate the nasty "short power" of Xing Yi. Yep, the step is for pep.

Cheers, all.

[Water Dragon]

Now IS it a stomp or not? I started doing this about 6 weeks ago. Surprised the heck out of me. To me, it seemed to be more of a "body dropping" thing if that makes sense. I thought it was a direct result of practicing the Chicken Step.

Oh yeah, 'nuther question. I finally got the mechanic down where I can put my fist on you, and "punch" with no wind up by dropping into my kua. Does this come from the same mechanic as the stomp or is it something different?

[swmngdragn]

Hi, Larry.

>Now IS it a stomp or not? I started doing this about 6 weeks ago. Surprised the heck out of me. To me, it seemed to be more of a "body dropping" thing if that makes sense. I thought it was a direct result of practicing the Chicken Step.<

OK.... Think of a spring that's overly coiled. Now release it, and see what happens? There is a release of force both up, and down. The down contact is what's percieved as the "stomp". The up is the punch, kick, shoulder, etc... Understand?

>Oh yeah, 'nuther question. I finally got the mechanic down where I can put my fist on you, and "punch" with no wind up by dropping into my kua. Does this come from the same mechanic as the stomp or is it something different?<

Based on my explanation above, Larry, what do you think? You can e-mail me with your answer. :)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by swmngdragn

Based on my explanation above, Larry, what do you think? You can e-mail me with your answer. :)

I think I need to practice more; That's what I think. :D

-edit-

But yes, I understand (somewhat).

[crumble]

It's really a drop. All your weight is dropping onto the heel. It makes the sound of a stomp but you aren't pushing down with your leg.

Sorry about that.

-c

[Brad]

Yeah, I agree, body drop not stomp :D I have a lot less Xingyi experience than most of you, but I can defenitely feel it when I do it the incorrect way (stomping). When I say stomping I mean actualy forcefully propelling the foot to the ground... like I'm kicking the floor, lol. That ends up hurting my shin, knee, and sometimes heel when I forget to relax the foot. That's why I temporarily stopped doing Xingyi because everytime I'd do something wrong it would hurt like hell(I allready have a bad knee) :P

[Daredevil]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Now IS it a stomp or not? I started doing this about 6 weeks ago. Surprised the heck out of me. To me, it seemed to be more of a "body dropping" thing if that makes sense. I thought it was a direct result of practicing the Chicken Step.

Oh yeah, 'nuther question. I finally got the mechanic down where I can put my fist on you, and "punch" with no wind up by dropping into my kua. Does this come from the same mechanic as the stomp or is it something different?

It's things said like these that really make me feel Xingyi and Bajiquan are cousins. I really, really need to expose myself to some good rate Xingyi somewhere down the line.

As for negative influences from the "stomping" .. I always wonder about that. We have fairly lively stomping in Baji and I've yet to get any negatives side-effects. Some folks speak of headaches : never had those, nor heard from anyone in the class mention those. As for those who hurt their ankles and such .. well, that seems more likely and possible, but I think these folks should stop kicking the floor and work carefully on getting the stomping mechanics right.

[foolinthedeck]

campbell may be kidding,
but he could well be right there, on the experiece of all the finns i have met, i would say that there is a lot of prenatal toughness there.. just my experience

[HuangKaiVun]

Hsing I is a COMBAT art.

Ask to see the instructor - or his students - spar each other.

A true Hsing I school traditionally isn't afraid of demonstrating its combat ability.

That's the way it always has been with that art.