Combat Effectiveness of Internal Arts (not a flame)

[Shuul Vis]

I am going to visit an internal school in the near future and would like to know if there are any tell-tale signs that i should look for that reveal the teacher to be combat effective. I dont want to just walk up and smack him in the face yelling "Bring it bi tch!" so anything would help. I really want to devote alot of time to an internal art but not if the guy doesnt know the combative aspect. Thanks in advance.

[shaolin kungfu]

Have the instructor explain or demonstrate some techniques. If they seem useful, it's probably a good school.

[Shooter]

If there are gloves, bags, and pads, mat(s). If he has a crooked nose and scars on his lips, cheeks or eybrows, or cauliflower ear(s). :D If it's a permanent training hall and smells like a fighting gym.

Ask how long before you get to spar. If he says right away, ask to spar some of his people. Buckle up and have fun.

[Shuul Vis]

should we be sparring right away in an internal system?

[shaolin kungfu]

only if your chi is strong

[Shooter]

should we be sparring right away in an internal system?

If you have 8 years of Kung Fu behind you, I would hope so.

[Shuul Vis]

"only if your chi is strong"

I dont know what that means, maybe you were joking though. But i guess thats why im going. I mean i have an idea what chi is, alot of people talk like they do as well. I am interested in making chi a reality in a structured format with performable skills that demontrate that i have understood that reality.

I can throw a powerful punch using very little movement but does that mean i used chi? From my understanding, the answer is no because i simply used proper body structure, was relaxed and brought the power from the ground or the waist or whatever other power generation method i wanted. There is no chi that i can feel that i used in place of physical strength. Unless chi is simply my awareness of my intention as it flows up through my body. Is chi simply awareness of your intention as it moves through you? I dont know, thats why i am going.

I just wanted to know some signs of an internal teacher that really knows his stuff.

[Shuul Vis]

"If you have 8 years of Kung Fu behind you, I would hope so."


I could spar on my first day for sure. But i sure as hell wouldnt be using whatever internal art they are teaching and thats what i meant. Besides, 8 years isnt that long. Start when you are 16 now im 24. Hell, i dont even count the early years anyway. My training was never in an internal style so i would feel uncomfortable being a brute.

[Shooter]

You'll be at least on par with most of the people who think they have "internal skill" but don't proof the learning in full-contact training.

If the instructor knows what he's doing, he's not going to worry whether or not you're applying the principles right away. He's going to expect you not to apply them under duress. "Internal" skill is acquired through proper training and time spent. The 2 go hand in hand. Proper training involves lots of pressure to create failure in your fighting method. A good instructor will show you solutions to those failings based on the principles thus, reinforcing them as something you know based on experience. It's an evolutionary process...

A good instructor will relate the concepts to you in a language you both verbally and physically understand, and structure the training to address the specifics of fighting even if it's just solo practice.

You don't need to know all the details. That's his job. If he does it right, "internal" happens as a natural course of your personal evolution.

[Becca]

Hi. Hope I'm not butting in unwanted, but as to sparring your first day when you've never studied any inner-style... You'ed get your but kicked. The underlying philosophy of this type of skill is that you cannot move effectivly from a position of tention to a position of tention, i.e. you don't respond to a punch, but to movement tward you. The inner-styles are very effective against brute strength.

A few weeks into my Kung Fu training, my Sifu offered a series of three sparring classes, and I was invited to join in. I realized that he did this in order to clue me into that very fact. My eight years of ninjitsu were next to useless against my fellow lum with only six mos to a year training. Very painful lesson.

[Shuul Vis]

becca,

when i said brute i guess it was a bad choice of words. i understand what you are saying. although they wouldnt mop the floor with me if they didnt do combat training and that was more what i was asking in the topic. how do i recognize an internal teacher's combat effectiveness? The same as i would an external one? Just lookin for some ideas guys not dogma.

[shaolin kungfu]

I was kidding about the chi.

I'd say look for practical, physical applications. I don't buy the whole "chi' thing.

[Shuul Vis]

I figured you were kidding. I think im just going to kidnap a family member of his and when he comes to get them from me, ill know he means business. If he takes out all my henchmen and then prevents my daring super villain escape, then i know he is the real deal.

[shaolin kungfu]

Sounds like a plan. Just be careful. If he is the real deal, he'll surely end your life before you get a chance to learn from him.

[Shuul Vis]

Yeah....hmmmm..... Ill send in my evil twin as a decoy.

[Becca]

No, I must have misunderstood you. As far as what to look for, depends on the style. In White Dragon, look for built up fore arms in the majority of the class. Most sparring in this style is based iron hands, and a Sifu who encourages prac ap will ensure his/her pupils can cause damage just by blocking. I was recently dumped because I have "guy arms and the hand strength of a cyborg". (He through a punch in a joking way and got a bruise when I blocked it. Insecure jerk!)

Is that more what you were looking for?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Becca
No, I must have misunderstood you. As far as what to look for, depends on the style. In White Dragon, look for built up fore arms in the majority of the class. Most sparring in this style is based iron hands, and a Sifu who encourages prac ap will ensure his/her pupils can cause damage just by blocking. I was recently dumped because I have "guy arms and the hand strength of a cyborg". (He through a punch in a joking way and got a bruise when I blocked it. Insecure jerk!)

Is that more what you were looking for?

Face it, you were dating a p00f :D

[Serpent]

Or a goktimus!

[shaolin kungfu]

goktimus?

[Serpent]

Ah, hello newbie! ;)

You're in for a big read if you really want to know!

[joedoe]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
goktimus?

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6107&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Set aside a little bit of time to read this one, but it is well worth the read (if I do say so myself) :D

[Serpent]

Go to the training and health forum. It lives again!

:D

[shaolin kungfu]

That was way too long!

I got to the third post and had to quit.

[Serpent]

You're missing all the fun. Persevere - it'll be worth it! ;)

[Shuul Vis]

Becca, yeah. Cyborg huh? i used to masturbate to the terminator. (insert laughter here) man gda and i need to not post when drunk........

[Serpent]

The bit where he's digging his eye out is particularly stimulating, huh.

[Shuul Vis]

yep serpent. see, i knew i wasnt the only one.

[Serpent]

We're everywhere.

[Becca]

Yeaaaa... You guys are sick. Any who, he wasn't a poof, just didn't realize I meant it when I said I train for real. Everybody out here studies "the arts" 'cause it's the Boulder-ite thing to do. I find that meditation is more effective when coupled with isometric body-strengthening. (should I have said "coupled" around Serpant?)

[SevenStar]

most things can't be said around serpent...

[shaolin kungfu]

or done around serpent. whatever that means.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Becca
Yeaaaa... You guys are sick. Any who, he wasn't a poof, just didn't realize I meant it when I said I train for real. Everybody out here studies "the arts" 'cause it's the Boulder-ite thing to do. I find that meditation is more effective when coupled with isometric body-strengthening. (should I have said "coupled" around Serpant?)

Heh heh heh! She said "coupled" and "Serpent" in the same sentence.

I'm gonna score!

Heh heh heh!

[shaolin kungfu]

{best buthead impersonation}cool!

Come to buthead

[Tainan Mantis]

I'm with Shooter here.

When you see an internal school in Taiwan it goes one of two ways.
The do forms all class.
They do forms for a warm up period and then fight.

Standing on the side-they are usually in the park- I have been asked to give it a go many times.

Same for sword.
An old lady saw me doing sword/jian.
She asked if I'd give it a go with her.
We used unsharpened thin steal swords.
She got a lot of kicks out of slapping my wrist with her sword.

[dezhen2001]

now u know why grandmas are so deadly with their big wooden cooking spoon :D

dawood