Critique this Tai Chi Application

[MaFuYee]

Hi,

I just wanted your feedback on this web page i'm working on.
i'm not sure if i want to put applications on the site, because i don't know if they'll come off as cheezy and ineffective. (IOW, does this look as bad as some of the stuff you see today in the ma rags?) - i know it's good stuff, but i want to know if it comes across ok in stills.


Tai Chi App - Lift Hands (http://yangtcc.com/apps.html)

[Shooter]

Anything's possible. :)

[Shuul Vis]

Looks good to me. The movement itself isnt all that exciting but i dont think it is intended to be so i like it. The descriptions are decent as well and help the images make more sense. Only thing i would like to see is more techniques lol.

[African Tiger]

I like the technique, actually. It looks easy to learn.

My only problem is with street application. I mean, how often are you going to defend yourself with your hands in such a position? Can a fighter reasonably expect to turn his hand over in such a fashion, as to be able to parry a mid-chest thrust punch?

Oh, if I sound like I'm rambling...I'm smoking a bowl. Wish Wenny-poo was here...or a few cool KFO'ers at least :D

[Serpent]

I'm here! Pass the bong! ;)

[Cheese Dog]

I like it. It's quick and simple.

You could easily turn that move into a neck break. Lots of fun!

[Tainan Mantis]

Technique looks good.

But since it is for a web page I don't know if that is the kind of answer you are looking for.

If I had happenend across this I probably wouldn't bother to read as the pictures are too cluttered.

If you have to use these pics can you chop off the people in back as much as possible?
Best would be to retake them

The solo version seems far from the partner version.

[chen zhen]

Yeah, they should take some clearer pictures with more detailed applications, without all the people in the background.
but anyway, looks pretty average to me

;)

[MaFuYee]

I realise that the pictures are not the best, but they were captured from video, and it was a very informal, typical class session. (as you can see, no uniforms, no sashes, etc.)
the pics were not 'posed' per se, but rather, i just videotaped parts of class, one night.

for anyone who liked it, i quickly threw together some more.
see them here:

Original app - Lift Hands (http://yangtcc.com/apps.html)

Grasp Ball / Wave Hands in Clouds (http://yangtcc.com/apps2.html)

Fan Through Back (http://yangtcc.com/apps3.html)

Single Whip and White Crane Spreads Wings (http://yangtcc.com/apps4.html)

Stances - Usage (http://yangtcc.com/apps5.html)

[Merryprankster]

A bit difficult to pull off if the guy throwing the punch actually has his hands up, like he should. A bit difficult to pull off if the guy throwing the punch throws a straight right at your face. A bit difficult to snatch punches out of the air, generally.

In essence, what shooter said.

[guohuen]

I liked it. Easy to understand. Good option for circling to the left.
PPPPPPT. Here Serp, Pass this to AT.

[MaFuYee]

MP,

i can see why you would get that impression.

but i think, the thing to keep in mind, is that these are just, informal in class demonstrations.

although it may not look like it, the punches were aimed at the defender. - it's just that the defender was already in the process of getting out of the way.

and, yes, snatching punches out of the air is not always easy. however, if the attacker is aiming for you, and you just put your hands up, there is a good chance that contact will be made. - once made, it is easy to 'snatch' it.

i would have liked to use stills from when this stuff was being done faster, but it was too difficult to get the transitional pics. - like if you look at the 'stances' page. - it's almost impossible to tell what exactly he did, just from the pics. - and that wasn't even that fast.

[Daredevil]

Here's some of my thoughts.

I do kinda like the technique.


Originally posted by Merryprankster
A bit difficult to pull off if the guy throwing the punch actually has his hands up, like he should. A bit difficult to pull off if the guy throwing the punch throws a straight right at your face. A bit difficult to snatch punches out of the air, generally.


You don't need to snatch the punch, you just need to lift your hands to meet his and then follow along it and execute the technique. That's quite natural and with a bit of sensitivity ...

How do you see things changing if the punch is to your face and not the chest?

If he keeps his hands up, it can make it different, though. There's a few options: a) basically ignore the hand, trusting your power to execute the technique with his hand caught between your hand and his neck b) I'd make this technique "empty" (not of power, but as a metaphor) and flow into another technique, ie. switch into a feint. Frex. f I still want to take him down like that, I'd immediately switch sides when my hand hits his, while my other hand hacks into his neck from his back side and wraps around it in a somewhat similar manner to how the original technique continued. My feet would need to shuffle to get good power and leverage for the continuance.

However, what I'd prolly try to do, if I'd find myself in a situation similar to picture 5 (though I'd like to be standing a bit closer initially), is continue in a bit different manner and not so much circle behind him, but step behind/into his front leg, taking his balance as my body moves into his (the snap of the hand, rush of the leg and hit of my body in unison and all one expression of power). But then, I'm a Baji guy and like that kinda stuff. Oh, and mount him as he goes down and grab hold of his head and strike it into the pavement for good measure. :)

[Merryprankster]

If you step in and follow the punch with contact you COULD clear his shoulder and reach his neck. The problem is that you MUST MUST MUST get above his elbow or he's going to beat you back.

Seems awfully iffy to me.

If his left hand were up, it blocks easy access to the neck. His left forearm would be in the way and in a better position to defend things. I'm pretty experienced with trying to get to somebody's neck--if his hands were up it'd be harder.

If he were punching at his opponents face his shoulder would be closer to his neck making it harder to get in there.

Food for thought. It's unimportant.

[Christopher M]

I think the application would be somewhat less contentious if you made more a meal of some combination of i) taking his balance/posture with initial contact, ii) closing more aggressively to shut him down, or iii) allowing him to counter reasonably and doing a two-step application.

Without i) or ii) it just looks too easy for him to pop you with his left as you enter, or roll your attack off his right shoulder, or switch leads and open you up on the inside with his left arm as your right strikes, etc.

In other words, it looks like the application depends on you being alot more skillfull than him.

I realize that's because you're trying to keep it simple though; just offering my feedback. I also realize it's difficult to be subtle like that without some speed and force to work with.

... I think what I'm not seeing is 'aliveness' of your left hand. Coordinated with the spirals from your stepping and energy from your weight shifting, it shouldn't have just redirected and checked the incoming strike, it should have attacked the attacker's structure and balance. The camera could pick up things like pushing that arm to misalign his shoulders and hips and to close his right gua; if not done at first contact, at least it should be done as you enter for the strike, to make it that much more effective.

Teach you to ask for feedback! :p

[Repulsive Monkey]

Is this the same Master Hsu the famous sword player, who also had as one of students Doctor Chi Chiang Tao?

[stubbs]

everyone in that class looks a bit tubby. lol, that was the only thing going through my head when i looked at that
________
Black Amateur (http://www.****tube.com/categories/285/amateur/videos/1)

[Cheese Dog]

Hey guys, don't bogart the whole bowl! Pass it on over! :D




Overall, I liked the applications, even though I might do them slightly different. I found them pretty clear and easily understood.

[MaFuYee]

thanks everyone for your replies. - i guess it might be clearer if i put up a video file, so people can better see the dynamics.

MP i understand your skepticism. just the fact that you didn't go off and call it utter garbage is encouraging to me. ;)

DD (ben affleck is gay) i agree with the part about it not being 'snatching'. if your hands are up already, the punch just runs into your hands. - i didn't quite get the other stuff you were describing, but i'll admit, there are tons of other possibilities. - i just thought this was a "safe" one to show.

Chris, there is no crossing of the centerline or initial offbalancing in this technique because the slap block and palm strike are done at the same time. (ideally) the palm strike is what will offbalance the person. - i realise the technique looks slow in pictures, but the tech. uses whipping power, and is quite fast. - because, otherwise i am a big fan of the c.t.c. and o.b.ing

Rep Mky, i don't know if he taught dr cct. but from what i understand, he was known for his sword forms.

would you recognize pics of either hfy or cct?
pics of hsu (http://www.taichicenter-chicago.com/hsufunyuen.html)
2 more pics (http://www.wukungtaichi.com/hsufunyuen.html)

stubbs, that's just 'developing root'.

[African Tiger]

Hey, pass my weed back guys. I got five on it :D

I noticed that your "Grasp ball/paring horse's mane" is a technique that we use at The Taoist Institute. I always thought it was something from JJJ or from Chin Na, but now I know!

[Cheese Dog]

Sure thing AT, here ya go. Good $hit! Is it hydroponic?

[norther practitioner]

I've come to realize that (until recently me included) a lot of people don't realize how much grappling, throws, and take downs are in taiji.

[MaFuYee]

i think the striking aspect is more overlooked. (it's not as flashy.)

[Rolling Elbow]

feasible...

hands are actually quite relaxed and natural in the initial posture- very realistic because we do similar stuff in taijutsu..infact, very good technique as you swallow and get BEHIND the attacker. I would have added a little something but then again, i can't go divulging all of our secrets right?!!!!! You can't be afraid to allow the opponent to feel as if he has you in range though. Internal systems are awesome for that- but, it takes along time to get used to feeling comfortable in a range that most of us consider to be dangerous.

Me likie likie..