WHF and CCM

[ursa major]

I am interested in learning about and understanding the differences between two great 7 Star lineages, WHF and CCM. I am interested in hearing of their history and their unique contributions to 7 Star PM.

For example, are they more or less the same ? If they are different how are they different ? What do they share, not share ? Are there significant differences in philosophy ? Are the curriculums similar, dissimilar ? Etc.

thx in advance,
UM.

[CeruleanRyuujin]

Anyone know? I would be interested in knowing as well.

[ninjaboy]

hey richard, good to see your voice...i hope all is well at your end.

i'm sure there are a wide variety of opinions but nobody wants to open up the proverbial 'can of worms'...

if you want the straight dope, i recommend going to toronto to talk with one of the the only men still alive that trained with both of them, sifu philipman chow.

i asked him the same question and got my answer but was asked not to discuss it outside of where i heard it for fear of political family issues brewing on account of it...i'd LOVE to share what i heard but i cant break my word : ( personal integrity... be ****ed! lol

neil

[Paul T England]

You will get a 100 different opinions if you ask 100 different people.

To me they both did much for mantis in hong kong and I repsect both.

If you look at the material available on dvd, book, youtube etc you should be able to come to your own conclusions.

Paul

[Oso]

wow...what a little tease you are, ninjaboy ;)

[Redfish]

You could check out their main sub schools.

For CCM you could see either Lee Kam Wing (HK) or the Chu Luen clan (NYC etc).
For WHF you could see Tse Wingming, who trained with him before he later trained with CCK too. You could also see those BW vids of Brendan Lai knocking around too, not to mention the WHF books.

There a bunch of others too, if anyone wants to chip in. Ninjaboy is probably right here, better to just see for yourself rather than get opinions.

[cerebus]

Well, political differences aside, could anyone mention what they themselves feel are some of the main technical differences? Not "which one is better", just ways in which they are different?

[Concrete Mantis]

Good luck getting any info...

[Paul T England]

its amasing how insecure people are and how fragile the deck of cards is.

I am not going to get into good or bad but we should be able to discuss in an open and non offensive manner. No wonder the kung fu wolrd gets slagged off...

So after a bad day and a horrible few weeks let me open the floodgates...:-)

CCM line seems to have more fluid, faster forms flow compared to WHF line which seems to focus more on connected power. Also some of the moves are differrent which seem to be more signature moves than anything lacking in application. Some of the forms are very close while others seem to be completely different forms.

It would be interesting to comapre the 12 keywords between the groups and also the forms order.

Oh well....thats me going to hell

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Codeboy]

I train with Sifu Chung so we are under the WHF lineage. I don't know anyone off of the CCM branch and have not seen any of their training so it is difficult to say this or that is different unless you train with both for quite a while, don't you think?

[Paul T England]

I think opinions are fine as long as people are respectful...who is the best mma fighter, boxer, mantis teacher or whatever is fine but its only an individual opinion so I don't think people should get too frustrated.

I admire many different martial artists for different reasons and I can't think of one which I agree with 100% Each person puts their own stamp on a form, technique or weapon and we should encourage that not knock people. Why should a form look identical if done by different people, do Tyson and Ali throw the same jab? WHF and CCM should both be resected for their efforts and skills.


Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[notanexit]

At my former school,there were a bunch of horrible things said about CCM and his lineage.I was lead to believe that they did'nt have good kungfu.I thought it was true because "sifu'' said so.Now that I'm away from that cult I can see that it wasn't true.I can now appreciate CCM and other arts that were constantly put down at that school.The problem is that people will look for anything different and perceive it as "wrong".The good thing is I can see the things at my former school and instructor that was wrong(and still is).Paul is right,they both should be respected for their efforts and skill.

[MightyB]

I am interested in learning about and understanding the differences between two great 7 Star lineages, WHF and CCM. I am interested in hearing of their history and their unique contributions to 7 Star PM.

For example, are they more or less the same ? If they are different how are they different ? What do they share, not share ? Are there significant differences in philosophy ? Are the curriculums similar, dissimilar ? Etc.

thx in advance,
UM.

There's no difference judging by looking at LKW video and my own experience a "WHF" Lineage guy. Both CCM and WHF were students of LGY. IMO I see more mutations and variations stateside with the new generation rather than among the direct descendants, and really were only talking about the forms performance aspect of Mantis Kung Fu.

[RAYNYSC]

Why not post some videos of forms from both 7 Star lineages, WHF and CCM & have an open discussion on this great system in other words check your ego at the door / keyboard. After all we are all suppose to be members / family under the 7 Star Mantis System right & like any family there will always be a difference of opinion on just about anything. The key is to have an open mind instead of having a closed one, in short stop looking for what makes these two lineages different as apose to why for there has to be a reason why..... I'm not sure who can best rep the WHF lineage as for the CCM lineage I would have to say Sifu Carl A Albright & Sifu Pablo Morales would best rep CCM lineage....

[BeiTangLang]

Why not post some videos of forms from both 7 Star lineages, WHF and CCM & have an open discussion on this great system in other words check your ego at the door / keyboard. After all we are all suppose to be members / family under the 7 Star Mantis System right & like any family there will always be a difference of opinion on just about anything. The key is to have an open mind instead of having a closed one, in short stop looking for what makes these two lineages different as apose to why for there has to be a reason why.....

Excellent!

[ngokfei]

Its already there on youtube.

Just site links for comparison.

[MightyB]

look at about 22 seconds and see if you can pick up on anything... http://video.aol.com/video-detail/bung-bo-kuen/3588160738/?icid=VIDURVSPR12

Master Lee Kam Wing's bung bo is the same as mine. I come from the WHF line and live in the US. He comes from the CCM line and lives in Germany. I've never met him... our bung bo is the same. Now look up bung bo on youtube or google or whatever. Look at all of the variations.

[MightyB]

...so my point is still the same. There's no difference, especially in application. And, if people perceive a difference, it's most likely in the performance of forms, and those are extremely minor - a lean there, a pause here, an extra du sau, or a palm instead of a fist...