View Full Version : Nanjing's Central Kuosho Institute Curriculum ?

07-21-2001, 08:19 PM
Can anyone please tell me what was the curriculum at Nanjing's Central Kuosho Institute ?

Also was Cross Fist and Ching Chor Dai Kwan Dao in the curriculum ?

Thankyou :)

Crimson Phoenix
07-22-2001, 12:16 AM
YMAA's longfist is directly inherited from Li Mao Ching of Nanjing C KS I...you can turn to their website to have a look on that part...however NCKSI had other well known heads and coaches so it's only part of the program...I cannot help you with that, but retrieving the name of these famous coaches could help you have an idea of what else was taught there...unless you can find the whole curriculum by chance or asiduous search!
Good practice!


07-22-2001, 04:54 AM
Thanks Pheonix.

Can anyone tell me which masters taught there. Especially Shaolin teachers, also which forms were taught.

Perhaps Nanjing's Central Kuosho Institute had some kind of book or manual describing what they taught ?

Any forms listing would be helpful. Thanks.

07-22-2001, 07:32 AM

The head Chairperson was Chang Chih Chiang with the vice chairperson, Li Ching Lin. Another master was Kuo Chih Fung. Both Li and Kuo were known as Wu Tang swordsmen. Out of all the various CMA styles, it was agreed that only two style was to be taught at the NCMAS, that is Shaolin and Wu Tang because they felt these two styles were the most important at that time.

It was required that every master teaching at the school was to write a book on his style. When WWII came and the JApanese invaded China, their mission was to seek out and destroy all records of NCMAS, including the instructors. However some of these books escaped the destruction and made its way to Taiwan. Since General Chang was the Chairperson, he selected most of his friends to teach in Nanking. After the war, many of the Nationalist masters went to Taiwan so maybe the records are there. There were so many teachers at Nanking during that short period of operations, I do not know if you can get a complete listing of the curriculum.

Good luck, :) :cool:

07-22-2001, 08:53 AM
Do you know anything about a Central Martial Arts School in Canton ? Perhaps it was not termed "Central", but a KMT run school in Canton.

07-22-2001, 09:41 AM

If we go to Canton Central National Arts School then we are looking at the five tigers from the north who went south; Kuo Yu Chang of NSL, Wan Li Sheng of NSL and Natural Boxing, Fu Chen Sheng of Pa Kua, Wang Shao Chou of NSL and Ch'a styles, Li Hsien Wu of NSL and Natural Boxing.

With the encourgement of General Chang, Li Chi Shen appointed Wan Li Sheng as head of both CNAS of Kwangtung and Kwangchou with Kuo Yu Chang as the leading instructor for Kwangchou. Wang Shao Chou was head of Kwangsi. Other instructors from the Nanking National Central Martial Arts School that were assigned to the south were: Wu Chih Ch'ing of Ch'a, Short Strike and Tan Tui styles, and Ch'ien Chan Sheng of Ch'a style. (By the way it was Wu Chih Ch'ing who introduced Lin Bo to the CNAS's curriculum and thus with this, Lin Bo has been associated as a basic set for NSL because CNAS pushed NSL and Wu Tang styles.)

Mostly NSL sets were taught by Chin Chia Hsuan and Chin Yi Ming in the CNAS and Kuo Yu Chang taught the upper level senior students.

Now besides the names above, other big name masters that were sent south at this time(1928-1929) were Keng Te Hai of Monkey style, Tung Yin Chieh of Tai Chi, Sun Yu Fung of NSL Lo Han.

From the request of KMT (NCMAS), Ching Wu sent Chen Tzu Sheng of Eagle Claw, Lo Kwang Yu of 7 * Praying Mantis, Keng Cha Kuan of Hsing-i, and Wu Chien Chuan of Wu style Tai Chi. They met with General Li Chao and 6 southern masters; Lin Yin Tang of Mo gar, Tam Sam of Ts'ai Li Fut, Lin Yao Kuei of Dragon style, Chang Li Chuan of White Eyebrow, Lin Shih Jung of Hung Gar and Wu (something..sorry but can't remember the rest of his name) of White Crane style.

These masters were reconized as the top masters in the area (Canton)and everyone who wanted to learn CMA, seeked out these men wherever they were and followed them wherever and whenever they taught.

Today, many, but not all, of CMA students and disciples outside of China, that can traced their roots to the Canton area are connected to these men.

:) :cool:

07-23-2001, 01:07 AM
Thank you for your posts Northern Shaolin. You should write a book! :)

07-23-2001, 08:53 AM
Thanks NorthernShaolin,

How about Leong Tien Chi (Leung Tim Chu), do you know if he taught in Canton also ? Or perhaps any students of his teaching Fut Gar ?

South Paw
07-23-2001, 09:51 AM
You also wrote a reply with about the same contents on January 23th.

I am especially interested in the six southern masters:
Lin Yin Tang of Mo Gar
Tam San of Ts'ai Li Fut
Lin Yao Kuei of Dragon Style
Chang Li Chuan of White Eye Brow
Lin Shih Jung of Hung Gar
Wu Chien Chuan of White Crane style

I posted a topic on the Southern Kung Fu Forum:
Influence of Kuoshu Institute in thirties.

I have the following questions:
a. What influence did the Kuoshu Institute have on the curriculum of these different styles?
b. Were there new sets introduced at this time?
c. Did it change the way things were thaught?
d. Which source did you use?

Hope you can answer me.

South Paw

07-23-2001, 09:50 PM
Northern Shaolin, do you have any information on the ten hand sets of Kuo Yu Chong? Where do they come from and how were they influenced by the other instructors? Also, were these taught by anyone else that weren't students of Kuo's?

07-25-2001, 10:23 AM

Sorry but I could not find any info in Leong Tien Chi teaching in Canton. Nor about any of his students teaching either.


The only info I have is about Tam Sam of Ts’ai Li Fut. My sources are of many references but a majority of it is in Chinese. Texts were articles from New Martial Hero Magazine, Martial Magazine and historical text on Martial Arts written by martial art historians, martial art books with prefixes in which they describe their style’s history and the more recent, Wu Lin magazine. Some sources were in English such as Real Kung Fu magazine from HK. All these source of references were written in the 1970’s (magazines) or 1930’s or 1940’s (books) and out of print or very hard to find. New Martial Hero and Wu Lin did a feature series of old masters and their styles every week. I have to admit at that time I was only interested in the northern stuff and I regret that I did not seek out the southern style information too.

The Kuoshu requires that the sifu teach their own curriculum as long as it was somehow connected to Shaolin or Wu Tang after the basic form(s) of Kuoshu were taught. Also their curriculum was restricted due to the time limitations. Any real promising student was ‘ear marked and referred to also attend the sifu’s private school where the student can learn the complete style.

Kuoshu motto was “To build a strong country, we must have strong bodies” and thus everyone was taught CMA regardless of social class or position. The idea was to change the mindset of the people, unit, and fight the foreign invaders.

Because the Chinese government (KMT) ran the schools, and brought in many masters of various backgrounds, they were encourage to be open minded and exchange martial knowledge. Many sifus exchange sets to demonstrate their acknowledgement of each other style and abilities.

It was also strongly advisable to demonstrate their willingness to share their knowledge with others, besides writing a book on their martial art knowledge, to develop new forms, either creating a new set that demonstrate the essence of their style or combine the new ‘traded’ techniques with their own style and create a new set.

Tam San was a disciple of Chan Heung who developed a new style when his sifu, Chan Yuen Wu of Fut Gar, passed away. Chan Heung combined three styles from his teachers; Chan Yuen of Fut Gar, Li Yau Shan of Shaolin and Monk Ts’ai Fok (nicknamed Third Eye Monk from Lau Foo mountains. Chan Heung code name was Hung Sing as given by Monk Ts’ai Fok.. Hence the new style, Hung Sing Ts’ai Li Fut.

Tam San was born in K’ai Ping in Kwangtung and grew up in Chiang Men. According to CMA historian writer, Yan Chih Fei, Chan Heung learn Hung style from Qan Tai, learned Hung Sing from Chang Hung Sheng’s special student, Lei T’san. Chan Heung practice everyday with Hwang T’ao and Liu Chang. Later Tam San went to Kwangchou and fought T’ieh Lo Han, who was 7 feet tall. This was the only fight Tam San won.

Tam San’s top students were called The First Five Tigers; Hwang Hsin, Hwang Chi, Lau Chih, Chuei Chang and Li Chin. The Later Five Tigers were: Chen Nien Po, Lung Tzu Hsiang, Yee Ch’ing, Chou Chu and Chiang An.

Shaolin Knight,

The 10 NSL sets of Kuo Yu Chang were taught by Yim Chih Wen in Shangtung Provence in the very early 1900’s. Originally KYC learned these sets in sequence from one to ten from YCW who nickname was Great Spear Yim. YCW had a large school in Shangtung and taught many students. At this time the sets were not numbers but were referred to by names.

These sets can be traced back to the Shaolin temple but this may not mean that these same sets today were necessary taught there because we all know that sets evolve with time. However, the essence of Shaolin can be seen within each set. One can tell how old a set is by observing the techniques within each of the sets. The way each of these sets are arranged and structured demonstrates deep meaning.

Many people do not understand the name Northern Shaolin because of the translation and they think it is a generic term for all northern shaolin styles. The name, Northern Shaolin is an abbreviation for the styles real name: Shaolin Northern Style Shaolin Door. (Usually in Cantonese,the word ‘Pai’ in Buc Pai Sil Lum says that it is a style and does not mean the generic term). The techniques within these ten sets are proven techniques from the five main northern mother styles: Ch’a, Wah, Hung, Pao and Hua. The best techniques were combined and synthesize into 10 sets by the Shaolin monks and they called the new style, NSL, in honor of the five northern mother styles that were taught at the Shaolin temple.

In the CNAS, there were two other NSL who did not learn from KYC but taught NSL # 1 thru 6. They were Chin Yi Ming and Chin Chia Hsuan. The Dictionary of China’s Wu Shu lists numerous masters who were contemporary of KYC and taught NSL throughout China. It’s just that KYC was teaching close to Canton that is close to HK. Hence, all early info on CMA went thru HK so he easily became well known to us westerners. Plus many of his disciples were able to immigrate to western countries.

NSL did influence some styles. One that comes to mind is Tam San’s Ts’ia Li Fut. After meeting KYC, TS evolved his style to North Wind Ts’ai Li Fut because he added NSL kicks to his style.
:) :cool:

South Paw
07-25-2001, 12:40 PM
Thank's NorthernShaolin for your elaborate reply.
I also have a collection of New Martial Hero and Wu Lin Magazines. The only problem being that I do not read Chinese.
Besides I have the complete English editions of Real Kung Fu and Secrets of Kung Fu Magazines.

I only have one (1) question.

What source did you use that the six southern masters Lin Yin Tang (Mo Gar), Tam San (Ts'ai Li Fut), Lin Yao Kuei (Dragon), Chang Li Chang (White Eye Brow), Lin Shih Jung (Hung Gar) and Wu Chien Chuan (White Crane) were related to the
Southern Kuo Shu Institute that was set up in Guangzhou / Guangdong?

Yang Jwing Ming has a same text in his book on Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu.

I'm particularly interested if Lin Shih Jung (Cant. Lam Sai Wing) had a connection with the afore mentioned Institute.

Hope you can help me out.

South Paw

07-26-2001, 04:56 AM
South Paw,

I’m glad to hear that you have all the Secrets of Kung Fu and Real Kung Fu magazines because then I did not need to dig these magazines up. I’ve been looking through New Martial Hero and Martialist magazines but I haven’t located my source. However, I did find an incomplete copy of a book, Kwangtung Wu Shu (ISBN 7-218-00434-2) which covers all the masters who taught in the Kwangtung province. It mentions Chang and Lin of Hung Gar, and Tam San teaching at the Kuo Shu schools. When I think about where my original source came from, I believe that this information was communicated to me orally by one of my SiSuks who was in Kwangchou, China, at the time the event occurred.

However, the Chairperson, General Chang, had a martial arts historian with him all the time. His name was Tang Hao, who wrote numerous books on CMA and documented the Kuo Shu activities. Since many of the Kuo Shu personnel fled to Taiwan, and perhaps if you have connections to someone in Taiwan, they can perform some research there. Since Professor Yang Jwing Ming is originally from Taiwan, and he wrote the same info in his book, then one can conclude that that is where the written document is.

Another way and maybe easier is to write to Professor Yang and ask him up front.


I found some information on Leung Tien Chiu who is regarded as the creator of Fut Gar. It is an old article written in (May?)1985 by Wong Doc Fai in Inside Kung Fu Magizine.

At fifteen years old he studied Hung Gar from Yao Lung Gong (Cantonese) in Kwangtung province. He learned Ts’ia Li Fut from Leung Sui Jong at the age of 22. He then combined these two style and created Fut Gar .

In 1928? (29?) Leung Tien Chu entered the China’s National Central Kuo Shu Examination and Tournament at the age of 50 years old and placed third.

Leung Tien Chu returned to his home town of Sum Kai, Kwangsai province. Here he taught army troops his new style. After 2 years he tour Kwangtung province and continue to spread his style. He returned to his home in 1959 where he again taught his style while directing a medical clinic. In 1972 he passed away at the age of 93 years old. His son, Leung Tit Hon continued to teach at the village but in 1985 he was 75 years old and may not be alive. His second son, Leung Tit Kwun was teaching in their family village of Law Ding in Kwangtung province. His grandson, Jeung Gwing Chiu who was 51 years old in 1985, teaching in Toi San.

:) :cool:

South Paw
07-26-2001, 08:57 AM
Thanks NorthShaolin,
You have been a great help. I will contact Yang Jwing Ming. He is coming to the Netherlands now and then, and I printed some articles for their group/organisation.

South Paw

07-27-2001, 02:47 AM
Do you know what the basic Kuoshu sets were? I know Lin Po was one.

07-29-2001, 06:50 AM
Thanks again for the information NorthernShaolin !

Regarding the book "Kwangtung Wu Shu ". Are there many masters listed in the book ?

Also do you know anyone in Taiwan I should look for if I were to look for someone that knew what was taught in the Central Martial Arts Institute in Canton ?

Is the Central Martial Arts Institute the same institute where Sun Yu Fungs student taught at ? (The Big Buddha Temple where Sun Yu Fung later retired to, to join his student)

Lastly, do you if the Bak Mei teacher there talk a form called "Big Buddha Palm" ?

Look forward to your post.

:) :) :)

07-31-2001, 05:00 AM
Shaolin Knight,

I've know of one other set called Long Fist which was developed by the Five Tigers fron the North. They reviewed their Northern sets and picked out, in their opinion, the best techniques that they felt would represent the northern flavor. Unfortunatly, there are many sets named Long Fist and to determine exactly which Long Fist set was their creation would be difficult. One could speculate, although I've have not read any documentation, that the Southern masters done the same, that is created a set that represents the best techniques of the southern styles.

These schools were to help spread CMA and tear down the walls between styles. They may every attempt to follow their motto; To have a strong conutry, we must have strong bodies.


The book contains 24 masters that taught in the Kwangchou area. There are numerous other names sprinkled here and there but it appears that the 24 names were the most well known masters, not necessary the best masters.

Big Buddha Temple...Cannot say that that is the same place. Many years pass and in China, people have a habit of naming locations and objects using the same name over and over.

Sorry but don't have any knowledge of any Bak Mei master who taught there.
:) :cool:

South Paw
07-31-2001, 09:16 AM

This week I received an email from Yang Jwing-Ming. The text that he used in his book 'Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu' can be found in the book: "Chinese Wushu History" by Lin, Bo-Yuan, published by Wuzhou Publications, Taipei, Taiwan. This book is written in Chinese.

South Paw