Chi Kwan

[Phil Redmond]

Are there many people practicing Chi Kwan? It's really hard to find people to train Chi Kwan with. At least for me it is.
Phil.

[Wingman]

What is Chi Kwan? Is it like doing chi sao with the pole?

[TjD]

i practice it now and then with my kung fu brothers. however we usually spend more time on chi sau and such. so much to work on so little time :)

[yuanfen]

Some of us do practice chi kwan

[t_niehoff]

TjD wrote:

so much to work on so little time TjD

My sentiment exactly!

Terence

[Phil Redmond]

Hi,
Chi Kwan is sticking pole. It's a series of drills teaching how to stick to another pole using tan kwan, bong kwan, jut kwan, biu kwan, fuk kwan, and other movements.
Phil

[reneritchie]

Hi Phil,

I used to practice quite a bit, but Chi Kwan was only one aspect. We practiced intercepting strikes (the one sound), changes, and lots of point repetition as well, and probably even more so.

[Phil Redmond]

You're right Rene,
Chi Kwan just leads to techniques and sparring with the pole just like chi sau does with the hands.
Phil

[anerlich]

I do it but nowhere near as much as I should.

[Phil Redmond]

Is anyone practicing chi kwan or sparring with the kwan? I don't hear much about kwan training on the forum. Kwan training has helped my faat ging. Especially once my kwan makes contact.

[hunt1]

Phil I totally agree with you. I havent done Chi Kwan in years due to lack of training partners. However I did develope an alternative. I adopted pole techniques to the Tai chi sword. Along with doa techniques you can be effective. I have used this modification against Fencers using Sabre and some friends from Chen and Yang schools of Tai Chi. I have had fun and learned a few things. You will enjoy it if you try it.

[TjD]

do any of you who do train chi kwan with any padding?

ie. i think some kind of foam on the tip of the pole could prevent a lot of pain while not detracting from the experience.

[Phil Redmond]

hunt1,
I had the same problem. No one to practice chi kwan with. It's not taught until later on in TWC. I only got to practice with my WC brother in NJ when I'm there. I'm now teaching a student of mine so I can get some pratice. There's clip on my website of Sifu Joe Sayah doing a chi kwan routine from a seminar he did in Toronto.
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/foreword.asp

TjD,
Good idea. I'm going to try pvc poles to see how that works.

[TjD]

i'm not too sure pvc poles would work very well... it seems like they would be too floppy and/or break too easily. not to mention that they probably wouldn't have the weight or aliveness of a good ol' wooden pole.

i was thinking something more along the lines of mabye a tennis ball on one end, or the foam part of a foam bat :) nothin smarts more than gettin hit in the collarbone with a pole... lemme tell ya ;D

haven't been doing too much pole work lately... been getting more out of the knives and normal chi sau/gerk.


do you guys do any pole vs knives, or knives vs knives (chi do) drills?

[hunt1]

TJD I have done knives vs knives and knives vs pole. Knives can be dangerous even blunt ones. A friend once need about 40 stitches to close a gash on the arm from a blunt edge knife using hockey gloves for protection. I usually just use my kali sticks for training so stick vs stick. May get bruised but no emergency room trips. Try explaining to the ER folks that you were just having fun with knives the size of meat clevers so there is no reason to call the police.

[TjD]

Originally posted by hunt1
TJD I have done knives vs knives and knives vs pole. Knives can be dangerous even blunt ones. A friend once need about 40 stitches to close a gash on the arm from a blunt edge knife using hockey gloves for protection. I usually just use my kali sticks for training so stick vs stick. May get bruised but no emergency room trips. Try explaining to the ER folks that you were just having fun with knives the size of meat clevers so there is no reason to call the police.


you did knife vs knife with metal knives?? yeah thats pretty dangerous :D i hear they make wooden knives for that purpose... those might be a little more safe :)

[Phil Redmond]

do you guys do any pole vs knives, or knives vs knives (chi do) drills?
Yup?

hunt1
I also had some REALLY good wooden knives made by a friend in Canada. You can train with them without worrying about cuts. I can email you a jpeg of how they look if you like.

[AndrewS]

Check <www.ebmas.net> for the number at the LA Headquarters. We have some killer Lexan machetes which just happen to be very similar to butterfly knives. They've survived every piece of abuse I've put them to, which is fairly impressive.

And of course, were you to take the screws out of the wooden handles, use some good glue instead, and sharpen the edge, you'd have a fun little thing which wouldn't register on a metal detector.

Andrew

[KPM]

Hi Guys!

Just some random thoughts brought up by this thread:

1. I have made excellent plastic training knives that anyone can do. Just buy a sizeable kitchen cutting board. Come up with the shape you want, trace it and cut it out with a jigsaw. Then get rid of the rough edges and finishing shaping it with a wood rasp. Finally, sand it smooth just like you would a wooden knife. The result will be virtually indestructible. I have also made some nice ones from red oak.....one of which broke with heavy use. That's why I went with the plastic cutting board material and won't go back.

2. I have worked with the Chi Kwan methods. Lots of fun! I have written in the past and still believe that too many WCK people just look upon the pole as the Wing Chun equivalent of lifting weights. They don't consider it a serious weapon and therefore don't train it as such. A great many people just consider the pole a conditioning exercise only. That's a **** shame in my opinion, because the pole is an excellent and efficient weapon. I also think it should be introduced in the curriculum earlier than most teach it. There are likely a sizeable number of people that are very good at WCK, but that just never got around to learning the pole.

3. Sparring with the pole.....stay away from PVC. It will break, and when it does it will leave sharp and dangerous edges on the end. Forget about padding the pole itself. This will make it too heavy and change the balance, feel and handling characteristics. Your best bet is to pad the person, not the weapon. Head gear options include a fencing mask, or the padded tae kwon do head gear that includes a face plate. I've found that the best torso protection is either hockey or motocross chest protectors. They are tough and lightweight. I have a motocross chest protector that also covers the upper arms and sides of the chest. These things are designed to keep the rider cool while protecting him from big rocks and other debris thrown up by the bike in front of him. Therefore they are well capable of handling any blow one would dish out in sparring sessions. Street hockey gloves seem to work the best for hand protection. They aren't quite as bulky as ice hockey gloves.

Keith

[Phil Redmond]

The plastic knives are a good idea Keith. I broke the guard on one of my wooden ones doing techiques against another wooden knife.
Thanks for the tip on the PVC pole. Body protection sounds like a better idea, sort of like Kendo.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

I've been practicing striking objects with the kwan to train accuracy in my strikes. Is anyone here doing that and what are you striking at?

[TjD]

i've trained this a little... but as i said before, too little time and too much to work on.

i've found a ball attached to a string hanging from the ceiling works wonders. the lighter the ball the better, as it's movements are less predictable.

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
I've been practicing striking objects with the kwan to train accuracy in my strikes. Is anyone here doing that and what are you striking at?

Nuts for accuracy!
Old bag of walnuts to be precise. Just like in Warriors 2 with the date stones! The ball on a string is good. Dangling one of those iron rings is good to poke through too.
Then old car tires for power.

[Phil Redmond]

I like the old tire idea, especially for lateral and other strikes.

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
I like the old tire idea, especially for lateral and other strikes.

Or even poking through then hooking up. 2 or 3 tied vertically cover enough distance to work all heights. An added bonus is they're very cheap & durable for practice chopping and slicing with knives.

[GeneChing]

Ving Tsun's Devastating Chi Kwan: One Sound, One Hit, Fight Over! (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1288) by Robert Dreeben