Ken Chung's Wing Chun Camp May 1-3

[John Weiland]

This weekend, Ken Chung and Ben Der held their annual Wing Chun Camp in beautiful Marin County, California. We began with lunch Friday in San Francisco, then continued to the Point Bonita YMCA center in the Marin Headlands, the former site of a U.S. Civil War era through Cold War army site for the first day's session.

Although the curriculum of Yip Man lineage Wing Chun is well established since before Yip Man's time, and this was my third time attending the camp, I crammed a lot of learning in. There is a lot to know with Chi Sao fundamentals, three open hands sets, the wooden dummy set, Luk Dim Boon Gwun, and Bat Cham Do. Each of these areas was opened up and explored during the course of the camp.

In addition to the constant chi sao with an abundance of willing partners, it was also a chance to meet fellow Wing Chun practitioners. In attendence were students from Orlando, Florida; Seattle, Washington; Ohio; Pennsylvania; Delaware; San Francisco;and San Jose. I had the great pleasure to meet David McKnight from this forum, but David had to leave early to catch his plane home, and we missed our chance to chi sao with each other.

We all got special attention from Ken. I had forgotten how powerful, deep and lasting, and shocking his hits can be. With one Po Pai, he gave my back the ultimate chiropractic adjustment. :D

Ken and Ben answered any and all questions. Ken was inexhaustable. We didn't go to bed until 3:00 a.m. Friday and Saturday (well, many of us) nights, and we rose and began again at 8:30 a.m. each day. I don't know how we could have packed any more into the time.

Everyone was energized by Ken's energy, and we left camp with a sense of accomplishmet and sore shoulders. :D

Regards,

[yuanfen]

Hi John-

Sounds like you all had a great camp.

I just got back from the Augustine Fong's annual reunion seminar whic as you know overlaps with yours. But I was very glad to attend the open San Jose wing chun gathering last weekend.

Our two day reunuion was preceded by a well attended intense week long - all day instructional program. Bith have been annual affairs for some time.

The reunion seminar went well. I took four of my students with me. We went over issues of structures stances and motions
in great detail and then spent much of the time dealing with
the bridges from chi sao to fighting. Most fighting does not involve chi sao. Chi sao itself is not fighting but chi sao is the key
to the distinctive wing chun gate to self defense and fighting if and when needed.

Again, there were folks who had travelled far for both the instruction and the reunion.
We also wished Augustine Fong a happy birthday which also falls
in early May.

Again- thanks for the report on your gathering,
Regards,

joy

[John Weiland]

Hi Joy,

Originally posted by yuanfen
Hi John-

Sounds like you all had a great camp.

Yup. And so say we all. :D


I just got back from the Augustine Fong's annual reunion seminar whic as you know overlaps with yours. But I was very glad to attend the open San Jose wing chun gathering last weekend.

And we were thrilled to have you there. :D That weekend was way too much fun. :)


Our two day reunuion was preceded by a well attended intense week long - all day instructional program. Bith have been annual affairs for some time.

The reunion seminar went well. I took four of my students with me. We went over issues of structures stances and motions
in great detail and then spent much of the time dealing with
the bridges from chi sao to fighting. Most fighting does not involve chi sao. Chi sao itself is not fighting but chi sao is the key
to the distinctive wing chun gate to self defense and fighting if and when needed.

Our Wing Chun ancestors really knew what they were doing. If it's human, Chi Sao has the answers.


Again, there were folks who had travelled far for both the instruction and the reunion.
We also wished Augustine Fong a happy birthday which also falls
in early May.

It sounds great. Please give the best wishes of San Jose Wing Chun to Augustine Fong when you talk with him next.


Again- thanks for the report on your gathering,

Thanks. And all the best to you,

[reneritchie]

Camps in May are a sure sign you folks lack permafrost... 8)

Glad it all went well and y'all enjoyed!

[tparkerkfo]

Hey, why isn't permafrost bleeped out? THat IS a bad word where I come from. Heck, I am not even sure Joy knows what that word means. Oh wait, he probably thinks he experienced it in San Jose. LOL

I am upset and distraught that I missed camp this year :( I am sure it was excellent though. I would have loved to meet a few others that attended and listen to some of the history that was discussed. Maybe someone could share with me at some point.

I was able to salvage my weekend anyway and got some good training in! I had my first wing chun class in a while to boot! More of an informal gettogher than an actual class.

Tom
________
Toys sex (http://www.****tube.com/categories/41/toys/videos/1)

[yuanfen]

Tom Parker sez:

Hey, why isn't permafrost bleeped out? THat IS a bad word where I come from. Heck, I am not even sure Joy knows what that word means. Oh wait, he probably thinks he experienced it in San Jose. LOL
-----------------------------------------------
Is that a new Baskin robbins flavor or Godiva or Ben and Jerry's?

SJ and SF is "cold" !

More blue skies in Arizona than anywhere else- but the in migration (including from California) of people and their plants and the related construction... the times they are a changing....
in what used to be a desert paradise.

Many a cactus flower blooms unseen
and spreads its fragrance in the desert air.


With apologies to a lesser muse.

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by tparkerkfo
Hey, why isn't permafrost bleeped out? THat IS a bad word where I come from. Heck, I am not even sure Joy knows what that word means. Oh wait, he probably thinks he experienced it in San Jose. LOL

I must have done something right in a previous life. The weather gods smiled on us at the Wing Chun get-together this year. Rain would have put a bit of a crimp in things if we had had to all squeeze into Steve and Sandy's basement. :D


I am upset and distraught that I missed camp this year :( I am sure it was excellent though. I would have loved to meet a few others that attended and listen to some of the history that was discussed. Maybe someone could share with me at some point.

You're always welcome in San Jose. Come on down. I like to talk with my hands best. :D But, as Ken's group slowly, but surely gets better, things are getting interesting to an old guy like me. :)


I was able to salvage my weekend anyway and got some good training in! I had my first wing chun class in a while to boot! More of an informal gettogher than an actual class.

More like a graduate seminar with Professors Joy and Hendrik. :p

Regards,

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I also found meeting John to be a privilege and regret not having more time, but there is next year :)I also had the pleasure of meeting with and doing some brief Chi Sau with Kathy Jo. I found Kathy Jo to be a very generous person and a gracious hostess and I have a great deal of respect for her ability. Perhaps the more so because she is able to achieve it with only minimal contact with her Sifu. There were many great people there and I learned a lot from the interactions with several. All in all it was well worth the trip and my only regret is that I did not have more time.

I found both Kenneth Chung and Ben Der to be fine examples of Wing Chun at its best. Ken was very pleasant and quite willing to share his knowledge with the rest of us. I also found his ability to generate power to be quite impressive. However, Ben was the most impressive of all to me. He is an encouragement to anyone who feels that they are too small to accomplish any high level of Wing Chun ability. I had only a few moments to touch hands with Ben prior to leaving to catch my flight home. In those few moments I discovered what real skill and power he possessed. His forward pressure was intense and yet not stiff in any way. I asked him how much he weighed and he laughingly replied “115 pounds”. Considering that I weight between 195-201, depending on how much I ate that day ;), I had the perceived advantage. Unfortunately I fear that my size would have only gotten in the way. Ben is also 62 years of age so he is an example of how Wing Chun can still be utilized, as one gets older.

The entire trip was worth the making. I am hoping to apply some of the things which I learned to improve my own Wing Chun. I am also planning on attending the camp again next year. I would like to thank Kathy Jo for inviting me and everyone else for tolerating me while I was there.

Peace,

Dave

[kj]

David, it was absolutely fantastic having you with us a camp, even though your stay was understandably foreshortened. I am glad we finally had the chance to meet. You are every bit as good natured in person as on the internet.

Ken was impressed with your open mindedness, and he obviously enjoyed working with you. Same for Ben and the rest of us of course. :)

You are too generous. I greatly appreciate the short time we had to work out. I only regret about my soon-to-be-repaired knee constraint. At least I didn't have to rely on the cane, LOL. It's always something; I'm just thankful to manage in working with what I have.

Working with you and some of the other bigger and skillful guys throughout my trip was a real help, and provided me with some much needed and timely feedback. My spoonful of sugar was that I may have surprised a couple of people a little bit. But then I also have to swallw a big spoonful of other stuff (not sugar), and address my work ahead.

As compared to "most" people (???) I don't “think” I tend to rely as much on physical force. Usually, LOL. I simply don't have that much to begin with, coupled with an innate awareness of that fact. Yet even I still unintentionally rely on it far too much, especially when working with those stronger than I am. Definitely I cannot compete in that dimension regardless of the "instinctiveness" of it; I was validated in my belief that that is the wrong direction for my training and development.

Even I have to work hard at embracing the "woman's" angle. If I have to work at it so hard, it must really be heck for you guys, LOL. It is not that easy to abandon the instinct to "fight against" or hold off the bigger/stronger opponent with force. Even relying on the "forcefulness" of posture and position is too much for me against larger or more skilled people. In doing so, I give the other guy/gal far too much to work with, even with just my penny-ante and restrained "strength."

Even when working with much "softer" guys like Hendrik, using forcefulness in almost any degree is a problem; he just has a different way of utilizing it. Actually, giving someone like Hendrik any detectable force at all is a problem, because he can feed on it so easily. The only times I got away with some forcefulness (even of posture and position) was when, well, I was the more forceful party versus an equally or less skilled person. That is definitely not adequate or acceptable.

I am more convinced than ever that strength cannot be the way for me. I have a renewed appreciation for Ken's constant admonishment: "Don't try to be powerful." The people I work with who think I am "soft" now will surely be convinced I’m off the deep end in coming months, LOL. Between this part, and some other elements of performance, I was able to both validate my training and to identify and confirm incremental and necessary work ahead. Basically, I need to improve in ways that allow me to operate more like Ben. :) Good stuff, and again, thanks to you and many others for the experience and opportunities to experiment.

This was my 6th camp; for me the experience and benefits just get better every year. I do hope you can make it back for another one. It will be great if some of your other friends or associates can join us too.

I will post info about next year's camp just as soon as things are confirmed, so that you and anyone others who are interested can plan ahead.

Sorry to have rambled. Basically, it was another great camp. :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[old jong]

Originally posted by Sihing73
Ben is also 62 years of age so he is an example of how Wing Chun can still be utilized, as one gets older.



This is the kind of comments I like to read about Wing Chun. Everybody who had the chance to feel what "high level" Wing Chun can do are lucky because they have no doubts about it.

[John Weiland]

Hi Dave,

Originally posted by Sihing73
I also found meeting John to be a privilege and regret not having more time, but there is next year :)

That'll give me time to heal up. :)


I found both Kenneth Chung and Ben Der to be fine examples of Wing Chun at its best. Ken was very pleasant and quite willing to share his knowledge with the rest of us. I also found his ability to generate power to be quite impressive. However, Ben was the most impressive of all to me. He is an encouragement to anyone who feels that they are too small to accomplish any high level of Wing Chun ability. I had only a few moments to touch hands with Ben prior to leaving to catch my flight home. In those few moments I discovered what real skill and power he possessed. His forward pressure was intense and yet not stiff in any way. I asked him how much he weighed and he laughingly replied “115 pounds”. Considering that I weight between 195-201, depending on how much I ate that day ;), I had the perceived advantage. Unfortunately I fear that my size would have only gotten in the way. Ben is also 62 years of age so he is an example of how Wing Chun can still be utilized, as one gets older.

Thank you for the kind words about Ben, my sifu. I will pass them on to him. If he weighed 115 that day, he must have had lots of change in his pockets. :) As for being 62, he's just celebrating 33 years of being 29. :)


The entire trip was worth the making. I am hoping to apply some of the things which I learned to improve my own Wing Chun. I am also planning on attending the camp again next year. I would like to thank Kathy Jo for inviting me and everyone else for tolerating me while I was there.

I will look forward to seeing you again next year.

All the best,

[Gwailao]

Hello

1st time posting on the site, i read it at work from time to time when i can. Interesting reading from usually, when linage and traditional or modified arent being yelled back and forth to the point the topic is lost in the mix. But my Si-gung and Sifu attended the camp this year and said it was well worth the money, Ken and Ben were all they expected and more. They were great hosts and wonderful teachers. Also were glad to meet and touch hands from many different practioners. I had to miss it do to work this year. And they made it clear that me going next year isnt even a question. Hope to be able to work out with you all next year, and thanks from my sifu and si-gung on a great time.
Roger

[captain]

a wing chun camp,what lovely thought.and in the hills!!!
where as in the uk,last week,i was given grief by some teen
"tough" guys,and outside the fear,i was thinking,"maybe pak sau,
maybe bong...punch underneath the chin".
only an ocean [and a cmp] away.
russ

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by Gwailao
Hello

1st time posting on the site, i read it at work from time to time when i can. Interesting reading from usually, when linage and traditional or modified arent being yelled back and forth to the point the topic is lost in the mix. But my Si-gung and Sifu attended the camp this year and said it was well worth the money, Ken and Ben were all they expected and more. They were great hosts and wonderful teachers. Also were glad to meet and touch hands from many different practioners. I had to miss it do to work this year. And they made it clear that me going next year isnt even a question. Hope to be able to work out with you all next year, and thanks from my sifu and si-gung on a great time.
Roger
Hi Roger,

I passed your message on to my Sifu Ben tonight as well as the complimentary message from David McKnight. Ben seemed very pleased at your comments. Also, he was pleased with the Wing Chun that your teachers had retained after so many years in between them and Ben. That was very interesting to us all. It demonstrates that good Wing Chun is self-correcting and can be passed down. All the best to Armando, Bill, and Jonathan. Hope to see you all again next camp.

Regards,

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by captain
a wing chun camp,what lovely thought.and in the hills!!!
where as in the uk,last week,i was given grief by some teen
"tough" guys,and outside the fear,i was thinking,"maybe pak sau,
maybe bong...punch underneath the chin".
only an ocean [and a cmp] away.
russ
Hi Russ,

I'm sure the coast of Britain has some great spots for Wing Chun too. :D As for the "tough guys," we have our own over here, but the beauty of Wing Chun is we can always be ready. No need for preparing, taking off the tie, removing the glasses, or warming up. We're ready all the time.

All the best to you in your Wing Chun endeavors. If you're in London, my sidai, Yvgeny (Eugene in English) is going to be over there after next week. If you run into a big Wing Chun guy with a Russian accent and he says he's from San Jose, buy him a brew and I'll return the favor some day. :)

Regards,

[kj]

Here is a group photo (http://home.rochester.rr.com/beacons/images/WC%20Camp%20Group.jpg) from this year's Wing Chun Camp.

I hope some day we can find a way to get everyone's face in the picture at the same time. :(

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

P.S. Pop quiz .... how many do you recognize?? :)

[yuanfen]

Atleast 11-I think-- 9 of whom I have met- one time or another.
The other two from other pics.
Is that Elaimy kneeling in the front next to your NY partner.?
Looks like good sunshine that day.

joy

[kj]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Atleast 11-I think-- 9 of whom I have met- one time or another.
The other two from other pics.

LOL. You get around. :)


Is that Elaimy kneeling in the front next to your NY partner.?

Nope. That is one of Ben's students. Stephen is in the back ... the tallest looking one with shades. He was obviously standing on something. Perhaps he can train some of the others to do likewise next year, LOL.


Looks like good sunshine that day.joy

Yes - a perfect day!!

Regards,
- kj

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by kj
Stephen is in the back ... the tallest looking one with shades. He was obviously standing on something. Perhaps he can train some of the others to do likewise next year, LOL.

Steve Wong has been trained. He was standing on my foot. :)

[kj]

Originally posted by John Weiland

Steve Wong has been trained. He was standing on my foot. :)

Ah, that explains the grimace. ;)

J/K. You do a good job of not telegraphing your "pain" - an important capability for Wing Chun. :)

Regards,
- kj

[Grabula]

sounds like it was a good time. I heard some nasty rumors however.possibly some interlineage rivalry going on this year ;) shhhhhhhh...

[John Weiland]

Hi Grabula,

Originally posted by Grabula
sounds like it was a good time. I heard some nasty rumors however.possibly some interlineage rivalry going on this year ;) shhhhhhhh...
Perhaps some individual intralineage rivalry, not interlineage though. KJ does get a little out of hand at times, but in the end, I forgive her. :p

I hope no one was taping my Chi Sao with her though. :o

Even I, absent almost all human frailities as I am :D, occasionally get a little over-competitive in the give-and-take of Chi Sao. When I'm on the receiving end, I figure it just gives me a better experience and forces me to be on my toes and adjust. I have folks in my school who are always trying to take my head off, so I'm used to it. :D I do some of my best work under pressure. :)

Cheers,

[kj]

Originally posted by John Weiland
KJ does get a little out of hand at times, but in the end, I forgive her. :p


Likewise, John. :p:D


I hope no one was taping my Chi Sao with her though. :o

Egads ... I hope not too! :eek: I want to learn from the experience, but not to document it, LOL.

Regards,
- kj