Brian Gray: Your Thoughts

[suff0beast]

Hi everyone. Gotta question. I met Brian Gray through my work. I email him and I have called him once. I am thinking of taking on his instruction and become a student. I have seen some people talk about his former students who are really good trainers. Now I am asking all of you who may know something/anything about him, about the system, about the students and trainers. I know about his website, and I know about shaolinsan.com as well so don't tell me about the advertisement. Tell me if the training is legit and worth it. I may be moving to DE where his school is and I wanna know if I should just stay put and keep on w/ my current stuff.


Rick

[suff0beast]

Gene please give me your thoughts, I know you do research on these things so maybe you could comment on in this for me.

Thanks,
Rick

[Lost_Disciple]

As someone who just reads the posts and doesn't have any personal opinion about the guy, I think the general consensus is less than positive about him.

All I can say is that he talked up his training of Anthony Michael Hall and showed pictures of him doing his kung fu in a mag. I wasn't impressed. He admittedly taught the guy a bunch of forms right off the bat, with no basics, and it looks like it. It'd be one thing if he were saying this as a coach of an actor who wants to do a little bit of kung fu for a movie; it's another when he's talking about him like a serious, lifelong disciple.

Whether or not that's adequate to condemn the teacher, is not for me to decide. You gotta go with your own judgement- unless someone else on here comes up with substantial evidence for either side.

Just my two cents.

[WongFeHung]

First of all, let me preface this by saying, I am not speaking about anyone in particular.This applies to any school. The main thing is to find out what style he teaches. Do some research. Find out about the system, his lineage,who he studied from,other teachers who do that system as well. What forms are taught. Beware of people who claim to teach simply 'Shaolin'. or "Shaolin Ch'uan", or "Lo-Han Ch'uan" these are simply umbrella names of what can be many styles, systems, and subsystems.Many people make up a system and just tag these names onto them as if it gives them some legitimacy. Sometimes, a teacher will take forms from books, videos, and throw them together creating his system. You would do better to buy the Wing Lam videos, which take you step by step through a real curriculum. I am wary of a school where the student is practicing a fundamental contemperary wu-shu form,(in a supposedly traditional system) doesn't know the name of it, and neither does his "sifu"! I have seen this on many occaisions.Run, don't walk from schools like these.

[Shaolindynasty]

Watch or join the class and see his skills for yourself. If he has the skill it shouldn't matter where he got it from. The lineage thing is being played up on, it's not really that important compared to the skill level of the teacher. I guess the importance of lineage depends on what you want do you want a history lesson or to learn a skill although at some schools you can get both if you have to choose one choose the skill.

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[thekuntawman]

lineage matters if you want a teacher who is truthful about his lineage or anything else.

[GeneChing]

Oh man, did you have to ask for me by name?

Brian Gray wrote a very disparaging article about Shaolin for IKF. It was careless and a lot of people suffered because of it. Furthermore, I was there when he was there to do his research (and could tell you a story or two, but you'd have to buy my a drink first.) Heming, a student of Deyang, posted a response to it. I'll try to dig it up from the archives and bring it forward.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[Crimson Phoenix]

*buys Gene a drink to hear the stories* hehehehe
I'm so un-emlightened, I love crispy stories hehehehe

[suff0beast]

Thank you for all of your responses. I have 3 of his videos of training. He is somewhat indepth, telling you how things should feel, and what to use it for (only a few samples but we all know techniques are limitless). Anyways, I am not too interested in the lineage, I would like to learn something effective, and something for me. I am also thinking of taking up instruction w/ a Frank Rivera(?sp) who teaches the Tiger-Crane system. But Brian Gray and I had a LONG conversation about Shaolin, and well I HAVE to say it... Sin The! Interesting enough I have a job offer open to me 1 year later from the company I work for to go out to Delaware! However I think I may research this some more before I make my final decision.

Gene I will buy you multiple drinks to hear some stories.

Also if anyone in NM (albuquerque pref) knows anyone that teaches a system of the shaolin arts then please let me know. Email me at rjwiggins@excite.com .

Again, Thank you all!

Rick :p

[suff0beast]

If anyone knows someone out in NM that teaches a shaolin system or subsystem that does not advertise in any paper or phonebook ( i have searched extensively) please let me know. There isn't too much around here except TKD and AKKA (Kempo).

[GeneChing]

You guys are buying!
And don't qoute me on anything... It'll be our little secret... ;)

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[IronFist]

Uh... did you guys buy him those drinks yet?

Iron

[Turiyan]

I can comment on brian grey from a guy that met him. But first, I need someone to define for me:

"Yo-Yo"

As in "Man, what a yo-yo".

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
"A Brahmin, who is the giver of spiritual birth, the teacher of prescribed duty, is by right the father of an old man, though himself be a child." --Verse 22 of inner text of Brahminism

[suff0beast]

What context are we talking about?

"man, what a yo-yo"

Someone who is not exactly an idiot, but maybe arrogant

Or

A little plastic circular object that is used in conjunction w/ a string to send it back and forth.

Could these be something close, as nobody here in TiVo seems to know what a yo yo is!


Rick

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Greetings my Kung Fu Brothers -

I wish that everyone would leave Brian Gray alone. It is obvious you have never attended any of his seminars or talked face to face to this man. Brian Gray is a Master. He walks the walk and talks the talk of a Master. If you don't believe me face to face him and find out for yourself.

I would comment on his ties with the Shaolin temple but I don't want to upset Mr. Ching. Thanks for letting me give my two cents.

Damian

[GeneChing]

Please comment! Believe me, after all the things people have said about me on forums, I'm hard to upset. Actually, I've been hoping a BG student would jump in on this one...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Mr. Ching -

There realy is nothing to comment and I am not a student of Brian Gray. I have studied the Iron Palm with him and have had some informal training in Shaolin Kung Fu. By the way, I didn't learn forms first. And see what people say and they don't know. Master Brian Gray is what I said in my last post. Anyone who thinks differently can check him out and they will see that he is the "real deal".

Damian

[GeneChing]

Brian Grey does have an air of controversy like Sin Te or Jim Lacy, so I doubt the forum will leave him alone. Such is the nature of forums - true democracy - everyone with an email address can have their say. Don't be offended by words or you won't last here very long. And despite the negativity, there are some great conversations we have here.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Gene -

Thank you for your concern. When we played as children, we would recite a rhyme that went some thing like this, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words (names)will never hurt me. To add to that, I only speak from experience and if I don't know something I always look for an answer. I am a Chen stylist and the training and questions never stop.

Damian

[suff0beast]

Damian,

Hello, I just finished some of what you read on another forum about BG. Anyways I went ahead and got some of his videos.. I have levels 1-3. And I have to say that the content is not bad. He describes the stances, and goes through every movement in different angles. I may stay where I am at, and learn the correspondance. I once made the fatal mistake however of asking me where he learned. Needless to say I got back an email w/ alittle bit of anger in it. However the information seems to be in step w/ his full curriculum as I have been to his website. and while I wish they would kinda give alittle more detail on the staff techniques (that's my focus right now) it is after all a video course, so you gotta do w/ what you got.

And to all that responded, I want to thank everyone for their valuable time on this, both good and bad statements are taken in carefully.

And to Gene, if I am ever out in california again (I am assuming you are mostly in the northern areas from some other posts, I grew up in Sunnyvale) I will be sure to look you up on a drink or so and maybe a chat.

Thank you all,

Rick

[GeneChing]

I was raised in Sunnyvale too! Where (and when) did you go to High School?

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[suff0beast]

I lived on Wolfe Rd. Between Cupertino Mall and El Camino Real blvd. I used to work at the Crown books next to what was Vons (though I don't know if it changed) I went to Freemont High '96-'98.

Rick

[GeneChing]

That's too wacky. I lived between Wolfe, Sunnyvale Saratoga, & El Camino. I went to Fremont 78-82 with Teri Hatcher...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[suff0beast]

So she really did go there! I thought it was all crazy talk because I had moved there from Oahu in '89. Then when I got in to HS it was really weird to hear that, she was even in a school article later 98... Anyways, I am thinking that I will probably go back to Cali soon, all my family lives in L.A. but hey it would be nice to go to San Fran again and check things out. Hmm maybe you can answer a question for me... Have you ever heard of a Hung gar practitioner named Frank Rivera(?)? I would like to find some type of Shaolin system out here, however the most we have is the Chinese Shaolin Center, however I studied there, and a few TKD places to get basics and keep fit. I regret moving here, but I know its for the best for now... Well I am rambling on.. hope to hear from you.

Rick

[Shawn Pecks]

First of all I met Brian many years ago at a tounament in Baltimore MD. At that time he was doing some made up Shaolin forms. Of course he said they were not, but could not give you the lineage behind them. They were not complete! May have came from some Shaolin somewhere? but not complete. If you want to make him angry? ask him who his teachers were? He acts as if you shouldnt ask that question. There has to be some lineage somewhere? He told me that his teacher didnt want him to spread his name around so he wasnt going to spread it. And then he went on this thing that the only people I respect is Chinese people, and if he is not Chinese then i think he is not legit. No! Not what i meant! Only if you are out there competeing you should be able to tell people where you learn it. Not a tough question? People, dont care, about your race. I would have bet he wouldnt have lasted a year at what he was teaching. Go figure. Only in America, can a guy will little skill get away with this stuff. I think he was taught most of his stuff from books. He is a well spoken man. He has no roots. If you see him move, you know why he's smacking rocks with his hand. And until he comes out with a name, we dont even have to have heard of the guy, Im betting he was taught by reading everthing he can get his hands on.

Pecks

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Master Brian Gray has a thing when it comes to lineage. It is a sore subject with him. The video course is good. What I recommend is that he has a seminar every year, usually, the last week in March. He covers what is on the Shaolin videos and has testings for each level. The weekend is strictly utilized for Iron Palm and Iron Palm testing. Send him an email and find out the details. Have a great day.

Damian

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I don't think it is fair to criticize someone when you don't really know him. Most of what your sentences say "I think" which means you don't know. Why does a person have to have a lineage? People, for example, say they studied under Doc Fai Wong and come to find out it was just a seminar on a weekend but they claim to be the greatest since swiss cheese. So what? Why should he, Brian Gray, tell you anything. You are not his student, he is not your Sifu/Shrfu. Have you ever noticed how Chinese Masters instruct? They appear to only give you a piece of the pie. Master Brian Gray will give you the whole pie but you won't even know it. Have a good day BUCH, train hard.


Damian

[Brad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why does a person have to have a lineage? People, for example, say they studied under Doc Fai Wong and come to find out it was just a seminar on a weekend but they claim to be the greatest since swiss cheese. [/quote]
He has to have learned from somebody. Of course it's also important to know how long he's studied also. I think I have video of some of his students competing with beginer level modern Chang Quan routines. Don't take my word for that though as I'll have to double check.

[Brad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So what? Why should he, Brian Gray, tell you anything. You are not his student, he is not your Sifu/Shrfu.[/quote]
The same reason a Dr. should tell you where his degree came from. How else is a beginer student suposed to know whether you're legit or not?

[suff0beast]

Damian,

As I beleive I stated above, I once made the mistake of asking him (Brian Gray) who he was taught by. I got a mean response. Anyways, are you a practitioner or just IP? Is it worth getting video 4-5 and I know he is making 6-12 right now, or at least it is in the works he says. Should I continue, w/ those.. I have already inquired about his seminars maybe I will go to one when I get more $$ and time.

Rick

[GeneChing]

Yeah Teri went there and I don't have a single story about her. She went to our 10 year and next year is our 20th (LORD!) so maybe she'll be there again.
I don't know Frank but that doesn't mean anything...

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[suff0beast]

how time does go by. That's ok, I have heard alot about him and his Tiger-Crane instruction. I may pick up a few of the videos from the WLE site. personal instruction is always the best, but viseo is the next best thing when you can't get find someone or if scheduling doesn't match their training schedules...


Rick

[Losttrak]

Maybe she'll bring Howie. =K

"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."

[suff0beast]

Gene,

I was just looking at the WLE site and the videos. I have a thirst for knowledge as you may have already guessed, and alot of questions to ask. I know everyone at one time or another has probably been or heard of people in my position that would like to take on training, however due to lacking of schools/instructors and a work schedule that is insane which most schools don't offer training in those time areas. I am left with little to no choice of resorting to Videos, and self modification of techniques taught via Video.
So here is my question to you as a student and a teacher to respond w/.
If I buy the Wing Lam Hung Gar videos (be it 1-2 at a time or a whole set) would it be the same curriculum, training as if I was to go to the school?

To break alittle bit more down, drop the personalized training aspect of an actual sifu/student relation and take a look at a perspective of a Kempo student of 5yrs who picks up info really fast and can determine alot of factors in movements, can visualize attacks/defense, and can put together ratios of where stances are, where the hands should be or can be, so on and so forth.

Do you (honest opinion please) believe that I could pick up good training, and learn it effectively?


Let me know and maybe I can set a goal to learn a very well rounded system from legit instructors, both northern and southern. And then I can attend seminars, special classes at the actual schools (if I am in the areas) and receive the personalized training that is missing.

Thank you,
Rick

[diego]

if you have good kenpo ive been reading on these boards thiers alot of politics....if you have good kenpo you already have a understanding of ranges and zones in combat"i study some kajukenbo".
from that you could spend the next couple of years developing the aura of the art,but eventually you must or have to seek personnal instruction just to make sure your motions are applicable.

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

A year or so ago Master Gray had a special offer for the first five tapes and I think it was $120.00 (1-5). You know more than I when it comes to 6-12 cause I haven't heard a word. I am a Chen stylist and Iron Palm practitioner. My Lao Shr for Chen is Kam Lee from Jacksonville, FL. I met Master Gray late in 1995. I have been to all of the Iron Palm conventions except the first one. I couldn't make it so I ended up in Lakeland, Florida meeting Master Gray for the first time. I have been with him for a little over six years. To read what you said of your first meeting with him is hard for me to believe. I have never known him to be that way. In closing I will say again that although he is not Chinese, he is the real deal. He practices what he preaches. Have a good day.

Damia

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I have had training in Hung Gar and what I would like you to do my Kung Fu brother is email me at dfe****o@mindspring.com before you purchase any more tapes and let me see if I can assist you. Have a good one.

Damian

[GeneChing]

suff: Wing Lam's curriculum is the basis of WLE's videos. Of course, direct teaching is more interactive so it is far superior (and that alters the curriculum) but I believe you can learn from everything. I even learned something from David Carradine's video (how not to act and dress!)

diego: Cool. A sidekick. Can you wear tights and a mask? ;)

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

[suff0beast]

Cool, I will be checking some out then.

Thanks,

Rick

[GeneChing]

All I can say is that he talked up his training of Anthony Michael Hall and showed pictures of him doing his kung fu in a mag. I wasn't impressed.

I know, I know, what necro-fu to dig up this ol' thread. But it mentions AMH, and for the record, that AMH article was run in our SEP 2000 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/index.php?p=magazine&article=124): A Touch of Hope . . . Anthony Michael Hall's New Journey By Brian Gray. I guess it wasn't that hopeful in the end after all. :o


Anthony Michael Hall Sentenced to Three Years' Probation for Assault (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/anthony-michael-hall-sentenced-three-years-probation-assault-1041733)
3:54 PM PDT 9/20/2017 by the Associated Press

http://cdn5.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/landscape_928x523/2017/09/anthony_michael_hall.jpg
Getty Images
Anthony Michael Hall

Prosecutors say the actor and a next-door neighbor in Playa del Rey got into an argument in September 2016 that ended with Hall pushing the man to the ground.
The Breakfast Club actor Anthony Michael Hall has pleaded no contest to shoving a neighbor who fell and broke his wrist.

The 49-year-old Hall entered the plea in Los Angeles County Superior Court on Wednesday to one misdemeanor count of assault likely to produce injury.

He was immediately sentenced to 40 hours of community service and three years of informal probation.

Prosecutors say Hall and a next-door neighbor in Playa del Rey got into an argument in September 2016 that ended with Hall pushing the man to the ground.

Hall was a staple of early-1980s teen movies including The Breakfast Club and Sixteen Candles. He more recently appeared in The Dark Knight and on the TV series The Dead Zone.