weapon manufacture question

[Leimeng]

~ I have recently made some nice steel heads for long weapons and am trying to come up with some good staffs to attach them to.
~ Specificially I need some wood that is strong enough and flexible enough to handle some 25 lb, 35 lb and 45 lb Tiger Fork and Kwan Dao pieces. The 60 Lb kwan dao I made is basically solid steel. The tiger fork will be the same.
~ I need something that will last a long time and can handle the normal actions of intense training. The problem I am running into is staff breaks off at the attachment.
~ The attachment basically is a sheet/tang of steel 1/2 inch x 1 1/2 inch x 8 inches. I cut a slit into the wood staff that size and then hold it in place with two bolts . Then I wrap it in leather.
~ Any suggestions would be appreciated.
~ I am not interested in hearing how your training is superior to mine, I am interested in creating some solid weapons for training.


Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

[Mr Punch]

How thick does it need to be?

How long?

My training is superior to yours!:D :p

Edit: oh, and which continent are you on? This will be a factor in choosing the ideal wood.

[Taomonkey]

Try ratan poles >2" diameter
Franks Cane Supply has them

[MasterKiller]

I don't know if wood is going to hold a steel attachment that heavy.

Usually, we take heavy steel shafts off of weapons we order and replace them with aluminum shafts. They are lighter than steel, but strong enough to train with.

[GeneChing]

For our Dragon Well Kwan Dao (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/45-81cs.html) the forged heads are too heavy for any reasonably priced wood. So we replace the wood with metal shafts. We do this for a few of our heavier Dragon Well forge (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/dragonwellfo.html) items. It's the only thing that works (and is affordable.)

[MasterKiller]

I've used that Kwan Dao, and I found it extremely unbalanced.

[1renox]

Of course the quality of shaft is important, yet there are other considerations. You asked about wood and if the bussiness end is breaking the pole along the tang, then that is the point of greatest stress (obviously).

When building a long weapon, I think of the whole unit as a lever system with one of the levers having a fulcrum where the tang and blade meets.

The lever of 8 inches produces lots of stress along the short lever arm. 8 inches is not enough to support even a 25lbs weight.
I don't think you will find a reasonably priced wooden shaft that can take that much stress.

If you cannot find a steel pole to meet your needs, then IMHO, you might consider making the lever arm formed by tang longer.
As an exmaple of this, consider the Japanese yari and the naginata. Authentic pieces will have tangs nearly as long as the blade.

If you do extend the tangs, it does not have to be thick all the way through its length and can be tapered. It is the lever action that is important, not the weight of tang in relation to head. If you have a way to anneal the tang while keeping the head hardened, you will also gain better shock absorption and less breakage.

I'd like to see some pics of your weapons sometime. A 45 lb Tiger Fork must be pretty cool to handle!!

[Leimeng]

~ Thanks all with your suggestions. I think what I will do is use a 1/4 inch x 1 1/2 inch steel plate running the length of the shaft for the lighter ones, and a 1/2 inch plate for the heavier ones. The weapons are about 90 inches long all together so the shaft should be about 65 inches.
~ After I get them to look pretty, or at least presentable, I will make some pics available.
~ If they come out as well as I hope, perhaps I will sell some. Being as I work full time and train a lot along with the rest of lifes activities, they seem to be taking a while to complete. Oh well.
~ If you want an idea of what it is like playing with some really heavy weapons, get ahold of an 76 inch piece of 2 inch steel or iron stock and practice your staff forms with it. Practice the form real slow and hold each stance and weapon extension for a minute or so. That will develop a nice burn and really give you a good work out. I think if you try that for about a half hour a day of serious work with a staff form you will notice some incredible strength gains along with some nice definition and definite hardness. It will also do wonders for your chinna/qinna.
~ I have heard of tiger forks and kwan dao's weighing up to 125 lbs so that is what inspired the quest to start making heavy weapons.
~ From working with a heavy staff, I know that when I transition back to a normal wood staff, it feels like a feather. The control I have over the wood staff is much improved as well.
~ I think if I can do an hour straight of a 100 lb plus tiger fork and/or kwan dao, when I am 40 (my goal, I am presently 35). I will be doing pretty good.

Peace

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue