how well do multi-vitimins work?

[stubbs]

do they get absorbed properly? will they give the same affect as getting them from natural sources? if im eating a calorie deficient diet should i supplement vitimins? which vitimins are generaly neglected in our diet?

cheers if you can answer any of the above,

stubbs
________
Vapor genie (http://vaporizers.net/vapor-genie)

[stubbs]

and will i ever learn to spell vitamins correctly? lol woo! i answered one of my own questions :)
________
DODGE VIPER SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_Viper)

[Ford Prefect]

Most mortal men will not get enough vitamins and minerals in the food they eat, so I think multi-vitamins are essential. The pharmacy brand ones (Centrum, etc) are crap though, but I'd recommend getting something from GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. A little more money, but you get what you pay for...

[Ford Prefect]

Guohen is in disagreement with almost every doctor and fitness professional I've talked to and read books or research papers by. He is either very smart or very stupid.

[Black Jack]

I actually work for a very high grade nutritional company and Ford you are even better off going with a direct brand than a private label like Vitamen Shop or GNC for your "main" multi-vitamin.

I am not saying they are bad but the absorbtion and material quality used will not be as good as a well-known direct manufacturer like Nature's Plus, Enyzmatic Therapy, Solgar, MegaFood, Solaray, Carlson Laboratories and so on.

For your other supplemental elements GNC or Vitamen Shop could be considered a fine choice but remeber you do get what you pay for.

Stay Heathy.

btw. I take a large amount of supplements everyday.

[fa_jing]

Nature's Plus

[Black Jack]

inic,

You are so off the bat on this topic.

Fa Jing.

You take Nature's Plus. So do I. Right now I am on the new Ultra Source of Life. If you want to go to a GREAT and FRIENDLY health food store in the city go to Sherwyns on Clark.

[Black Jack]

I will take your two years of personal research and go with the research pointed out by the $2 billion dollar vitamin research market and the bio guys from my companies own labs.

Do to the depleted soils used to grow the food we have now and other enviromental conditions you are not getting what you need on a day to day level. Food does not go with a standerdization test. Different levels of sunlight, depleted soil, weather conditions, pollution, pesticides, it effects each crop differently.

On apple may have a solid amount of phytonutrients. The next because of its specifc crop at a much lower level.

Not to mention that a vast percentage of the Earth's population can not afford to purchase the most expensive organic material for everyday cooking.

[fa_jing]

Black Jack - I buy my stuff at Walgreens. Mostly B vitamins for me, some others for the fam.
Hey if you are making it into town, we should meet up. I don't live far from Clark Street, at the North end of things. Edit: I just looked up that store, actually I've been there before. Wall-to-wall vitamins, all natural, pretty impressive.

Inic - We eat lot's of veggies in my household, but we still feel the effect of taking vitamins. Actually, I only take them when I'm feeling depleted. I don't like taking a whole lot of pills, but one or two a day is fine when I'm thinking of it.


So does anyone know if non-FDA regulated stuff like Milkthistle for Liver, Echinacea for immune system, etc. really works?

And is there any research relating the effects of natural-based supplements, as opposed to artificial? One of our doctors said that the artificial vitamin/mineral supplements were "the real stuff"

[Black Jack]

Fa Jing,

Sounds good, next time I am downtown I will let you know.

Here is my viewpoint on herbs from a market standpoint. Either you believe in them or you don't. From their you either believe in the holistic verison meaning the whole herb or you believe in taking a standarized verison which takes the most general and important phytomedical nutrient used in that herb, the active ingredient, and using standardized lab methods you give that botanical supplement the same extact dose tablet after tablet.

I prefer the standardized method as it goes with my post up above on deleted soil and enviromental issues. With every tablet or capsule I know I am getting the same dose. An example of a standardized herbal product.

Instead of just saying 1000 mg of Korean Ginseng. Looking at mine it says Korean Ginseng 1000 mg (Panax Ginseng Root) standerized 15% (150 mg) ginsenosides. Ginsenosides being the active substance.

I also take herbs in tinctures.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Black Jack
I will take your two years of personal research and go with the research pointed out by the $2 billion dollar vitamin research market and the bio guys from my companies own labs.


Right. Because that will certainly be some honest and unbiased scientific research.

:rolleyes:

[IronFist]

Good thread.

I must agree that some cheap vitamins suck. I used to buy these cheap WalMart ones and they always gave me heartburn. And they weren't even like mega vitamins, only like 100% of each vitamin per serving. Now I use GNC Mega Man vitamin and it's pretty cool.

Lots of B vitamins turns your pee bright yellow :D

IronFist

[Black Jack]

Serpent,

Yeah its one big conspiracy theory from the nutritional health food industry to fool the general public for straight out capitalistic gain.:rolleyes:

A lot of the research is also done by independent clincal trails conducted by the general medical and pharmological community.
That research is then applied and tested and re-tested within the over the counter vitamin supplement industry.

[stubbs]

thanks for all the replies guys!

does our vitamin and mineral requirements work on a 24hour basis? i mean, do we actually have daily requirements or are some vitamins required once a week or so?

are multi-vitamins as easily absorbed as individual vitamin supplements or is it again, down to the brand?

are their any sports minded company's that sell multi-vitamins to specifically cater for a sportsperson? i assume that a sportsperson would need a higher daily intake than a normal person e.g. they'll require more antioxidants or b vitamins

cheers again,

stubbs
________
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[stubbs]

oh, and is there a best time during the day to take multi-vitamin supplements?
________
Gay truckers (http://www.****tube.com/categories/641/truckers/videos/1)

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by inic
Am i?
would love for you to show me why.
So after all the studying and experimenting i've been doing for over 2 years.... all the results have been wrong?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the experimenting you've been doing has been with your own diet, correct?

All that proves is that multi-vitamins have been unnecessary for you.

During college, there was a period of 9 months where I ate at least two whole pizzas per day, every day, plus at least one (and often two) other meals. I had no regular exercise other than walking to and from class. At the end of 9 months, I still weighed 150 lbs (at a height of 6'4") the same as I weight at the beginning.

Does this prove that anyone can eat huge amounts of food, do no exercise, and not gain weight? Of course not.

Does all your experimentation over two years prove that anyone can get all the vitamins they need without using multi-vitamins? Of course not.

[Black Jack]

How do vitamins work?

Their are two types of vitamins.

Water-soluble and fat-soluble. Water-soluble vitamins must be taken into the body on a daily level as they cannot be stored and are excreted within four to 24 hours. These include vitamin C and the B complex vitamins.

Fat-soluble vitamins are stored longer in the body's fatty tissues and the liver. These include vitamin A, (not beta carotine) D, E, and K.

When I look at vitamins I don't think about the RDA as that was instituted over 40 years ago by the National Academy of Sciences U.S. Food and Nutrition Board as a standard for the daily amount of vitamins needed to just keep us over scury and other diseases. Instead think ODI's. Optimum Daily Intake which means the amount of vitamins needed for vibrant good health which entails consuming larger amounts of vitamins than the old and outdated RDA's.

Synthetic vrs Natural is also important. Ideally all of us would like to get our nutrients we need from fresh foods but this is often very hard to do in a chemically stressed world. Modern farming practices have resulted in soils that are often lacking in selenium and other minerals. Harvesting and shipping practices are not often dictated by nutritional considerations but by marketing demands. Add improper storage, extensive processing, and what ever else and you have lower nutritional value once it hits your table.

Synthetic vitamins are produced in labs from isolated chemicals that mirror their counterparts in nature. Natural vitamins are derived in labs from food sources found in nature. They still retain their natural state with the existing co-factors. Look for vitamins that say NATURAL on the label. Those that do not say natural could include coal, artifical coloring, un-natural sweetners, preservatives, starch, gels additives. Always check the fine print on the label.

Natural vitamins are bound by protiens which are absorbed and retained in the tissues better than supplements which are not chelated with proteins. Since all food in nature is bonded by proteins, lipids, carbs, and bioflavonoids for absorbtion, it is important to find a chelated vitamin.

That is why some people say to take a vitamin with food because if it is an inferior vitamin the food will help chelate the vitamin to be absorbed. IMHO it is always good no matter the grade of vitamin to take them with food. Water-soluble vitamins after the meal and fat-soluble before.

I take my Calicum at night as it acts as a sedative.

Hope this helped at all.

Herbs is a different animal in some respects- I take mine in capsule, tincture, and tablet. I buy my tinctures but I know and have made my own. Though I know one guy, the person who taught me how to make my own tinctures, who makes them into wines.

[[Censored]]

(Sorry, this copy isn't free to view)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30D10F938590C7A8EDDAD0894DB4044 82

[Black Jack]

That was more like a paragraph or two. Unless the article has stats on the clinic, research info, I don't follow them to close.

Their is a NEW study every month. Just last year it was about how gingko has no properities, though the one before that said it did, now it has come back around and researchers are saying it does.

[Black Jack]

I know supplementation works not just because of the main line non-fringe research but because I happen to be in an enviroment where I see it almost everyday.

I talk with naturopathic medical doctors, nutritional consultants, herbalists, degreed TCM players, natural health store owners, and most important of all their patrons on a weekly basis. I get to meet people who have had life changes due to the inclusion of supplements into their lives.

Beyond the research I know it works because I see it first hand from people from all walks of life who visit these health food stores and purchase vitamins and other supplements. Their the best proof of all.

[inic]

I know you're right concerning a certain perchantage. But i believe a large majority are mainly in a "placebo" effect with vitamins

[stubbs]

thanks black jack,

i couldn't find any chelated vitamins, only vitamins with chelated minerals. none said they were natural. i dunno if things are different in the uk. anyways, i bought two varieties, one cheapy one a bit more expensive. im gonna try them for a month each and see if i notice anything.
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[stubbs]

are they supposed to turn your pee green? :( well bright greeny/yellow?
________
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[ewallace]

My pee turns flourescent yellow. Kinda one of those things you'd love to show your friends but then think the better of it. :)

[Guile]

What about that guy who is 50? and takes ultrameadoses of vitamins everyday and its supposed to keep his youth? Anyone know?

[rubthebuddha]

Originally posted by ewallace
My pee turns flourescent yellow. Kinda one of those things you'd love to show your friends but then think the better of it. :)
i think i just figured out what ew means by "not in my pool, buddy."
:D

[Guile]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha

i think i just figured out what ew means by "not in my pool, buddy."
:D :eek:

[Black Jack]

You got the right term stubbs. It really is chelation of the minerals. Chelation is a clawing effect that allows the minerals and nutrients to be absorbed into the body. By natural I should of been more clear on the exact term.

The term that the market really uses for natural is "Whole Food Based" Meaning that the nutrients come from a whole food type of base.

For example if I take a look at the multi-vitamin supplement I am taking now. The mineral aminoates are whole brown rice chelates. Some of the whole food examples in the supplement as an example of what may be found in a bottle based on whole foods is as follows/beyond the normal supplemental facts.

Whole Food PhytoAlgae Complex

Proprietary complex of Hawaiian spirullna, Canary Island Phenalgin, broken cell Bulgarian chlorella, Norwegian red kelp, asian crptomondales, Norwegian brown kelp, Irish red seaweed, American rockweed, Mediterranean dulse.

Spanish Bee Pollen
Sunflower Oil
Black Currant Seed Oil
Citus limon Bioflavonoids
Food Fiber Complex-Apple pectin, Citrus Pectin, Oat Bran, Arablnogalactin.

Whole Food Wellness Complex/Fruit Concentrates

Apple, apricot, banana, camu-camu, cranberry, orange, peach, red raspberry, strawberry, tomato concetrate, alfalfa sprout, barley grass juice, beet greens, cabbage leaf, onion bbulb, parsley, celery, red grape, carrot root, spinach leaf, papaya, broccoli.

Bromelain (from pineapple)
Quercetin and Rutin (Saphora japonica leaf)
Grape Seed Extract

Whole Food Antioxidants

Propietary Blend-mild thistle seed, chinese green tea leaf (decaffeinated) tumeric rhizome, red wine fruit, pau d'arco bark.

Whole Food Amino Acids
From spirulina and pea portein. Provides complete profile of essential and non-essential amino acids.

These are just some examples-lables are pretty large.

Your best bet is your own example of experimentation. Also change vitamins around once in awhile to keep your system fresh. After I go through a supplement three times I change it up to a new product or even new brand.

Cheers

[jun_erh]

I saw some dude on tv who invented this little spray bttle of multi vitamin. claims in absorbs into your system faster that way. I failed science about 15 times