Shaolin training

[bodhitree]

Hellow all
Iwant to ask you all a couple questions. I'm going away from the computer for a couple weeks so I wont get to read it for a little while. 1 How many forms do you know? 2 how long have you been practicing? 3How often do you train and how important do you think horse stance basics are? 4 How many forms do you practice regularly? 5 Do you practice qigong then go right into forms? 6 Do you practice any qigong after you practice? I cant wait to get back to town to see what you all said!! :):)(:(: ;(

[No_Know]

1.Four.

2.Time in doesn't say anything as to skill because people bring with them different leves of understanding.

3.I think about being better throughout a day. Haven't done a full~ form for months to a year (minding my health~); horse-riding basics supremely important.

4.I practiced the last empty hand form more than the one form on which I still have to test

5.after every form I do what might be considered qigong; but qigong first?, can be in the salute (to me).

6.I do what might be considered qigong after Every form.

[Judge Pen]

1. 49

2. 14 years

3. I try to get in at least an hour and a half every day, with a couple of days with a 3 or 4 hour session, but I have a family and a full time job, so it doesn't always happen.

4. I focus on the most recent 5 to 10 forms I am learning, and I always mix in some tai chi, Pa Kua, and Hsing I. I usually have one day in the week where I perform every form I have learned.

5. and 6. All forms involve some qigong, but I focus on some internal forms at the beginning and end of m workout, and an internal form in the middle for a change of pace.

[Judge Pen]

I forgot to mention stances:

In my school, there are three heights that we perform stances: But an the hip, but at the knee, and but at the ankle. All of our forms' stances are to be at one of these levels. In warm-ups horse and bow stances are a staple of our exercises. Prior to rank advancement, we must pass a physical test in addition to our material which includes minimum times to hold horse stances with the butt at the knee. We usually place a short stick on our thighs to insure that are legs are parallel with the ground or a shoe under our butts to determine if we are at the right height. If the show falls you are two high; if the shoe bends, you are too low. Feet are four hands apart and pointing straight ahead. That's my school’s approach to basic stance training.

[MasterKiller]

I usually have one day in the week where I perform every form I have learned.

If you perform 49 forms in one day, either your Shaolin-Do forms are:

1) Very short
2) Require no power, or
3) both

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller


If you perform 49 forms in one day, either your Shaolin-Do forms are:

1) Very short
2) Require no power, or
3) both
Ouch

I was hoping to avoid Shaolin-do bashing. I'm certainly not going to disrespect anyone else's styles. I train hard as I'm sure that you do. Do I perform 49 forms in one day. Yes. Do I get tired. Absolutley. Do I perform them well when I get tired? Not as well as if I only focused on one form.

Some forms are short. One to two minutes for basic beginger level forms. Some take longer. When I go through all of my forms it does take a while. I break them up with breaks and intermix my internal forms to recharge a bit.

You have your own opinions as to my forms as I do. They do require power to perform. Some are short and some are long. The point of doing them is to get tired and have a great work out. It also forces me to practice when I'm tired in the hopes that I'll have a little extra when I need it. I would love to train with you if you are in the Knoxville area.

[MasterKiller]

Sorry for being snippy, there.

Do the 49 forms include weapons, or just open-hand forms?

If it's just hand forms, how many weapons do you train with? I know SD is big on a lot of hand forms, but when do you incorporate weapons into the mix?

[Judge Pen]

At blue sash we incorporate a basic staff form. Green Sash includes a short stick form. Brown sash includes a broadsword, two staff forms, and a Kwan-dao form. 1st black includes 4 spear forms and second black includes 3 straight sword forms. I'm studying for my third black sash right now, so I have only learned 32 posture tai chi sword. The upper ranks include 3 sectional staff, chain whip, double broad sword, and hook swords.

[norther practitioner]

Some forms are short. One to two minutes for basic beginger level forms.


One to two minutes for a beginner form.... do you know how long 2 minutes for an external form is if you are doing 49 of them........


Oh, and congradulations... you know a bit over 5% of you grandmaster now....

[rocky]

judge pen, I pm'd you.:)

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by norther practitioner



One to two minutes for a beginner form.... do you know how long 2 minutes for an external form is if you are doing 49 of them........




Of course I know how long two minutes is for an external form. Read my response to MK and you'll see that I'm not claiming it is easy. What's your training routine like?

BTW if you want to dismiss anything I post simply bc I study SD, then more power to you. I joined this forum with the understanding that SD was an unpopular subject and that I would draw criticism. But I'm intersted in sharing some information and learning about all aspects of CMA. I also extend an open invitation to train with anyone here if they are in the Knoxville area.

[bodhitree]

Hey all. Got to a computer here on vacation. I'm in Colorado and its snowing and cold outside! I guess its gonna be condenced practice for me. Love y'all

[Judge Pen]

bodhitree, I PM'd you.

[norther practitioner]

Hey all. Got to get to a computer here on vacation. I'm in Colorado and its snowing and cold outside! I guess its gonna be condenced practice for me. Love y'all

4" ... not too bad for May.....


Hope you have fun out here.
Give me an email if you are looking for anything to do, there is much to do in this big state.

[bodhitree]

Northern Practitioner
Hey I see your from her in Denver. My e-mail has been weird and slow on this hotel computer. I'm leaving denver tomarrow and going to Alamosa, Durango, Salida, CO springs. I don't know if I'll get to a computer again but I'll be back in Denver on Saturday, drop me an e-mail desajeet@hotmail.com. Let me know if theres any good martial attractions or if you want to compare practice notes Peace, Enlightenment, and Freedom

[joedoe]

Originally posted by bodhitree
Hellow all
Iwant to ask you all a couple questions. I'm going away from the computer for a couple weeks so I wont get to read it for a little while. 1 How many forms do you know? 2 how long have you been practicing? 3How often do you train and how important do you think horse stance basics are? 4 How many forms do you practice regularly? 5 Do you practice qigong then go right into forms? 6 Do you practice any qigong after you practice? I cant wait to get back to town to see what you all said!! :):)(:(: ;(

1) Lost count. Probably forgotten as many as I remember. Let's say about 30 for argument's sake :)

2) 16 years

3) Train about 3 times a week, 3 hours at a time. I believe stance training is fundamental.

4) 2

5) Rarely

6) Usually

[mortal]

1) 8 Forms
Chuji quantao(Basic stance or 5 stances form)
Yiluquan (first basic form)
Erluquan (second basic form)
Continous fist
Xiao hong quan (small red fist)
Ton bei quan (penetrating fist)
Shaolin quan (group form)
Shaolin Dao (Broadsword)

2) Training for 5 years

3)Horse stance basics are very important but horse stance bow stance transition seems to be more important since that is how you generate power both in punching and in weapons.

4)I practice Broadsword, Shaolin quan, and xiao hong quan 4 times aweek. 2 hours a shot.

5)No qigong

6)No qiqong

Anthony

[iron_silk]

This may seem somewhat off topic...but

I was wondering...I don't know much about Shaolin-Do but I have heard that the forms have similar names to chinese forms, but the movements resemble Karate and other such.

You mentioned that senior level belt learn internal forms and/or tai chi. What is the style of tai chi you practice or is it a Shaolin-Do tai chi style?

Thanks!

[weightvest]

Kungfu needs to be trained like athletics, in that if you do long-distance running, then you need to be fit. So you practise your kungfu for long periods of time under a bit of pressure - stamina.

If you do not do competitions or demonstrations, then kungfu needs no fitness. So you perform kungfu until you feel tired, take a rest, then start again. Kungfu is not about being hard and doing lots of routines in one day.

It is about making our forms prefected: one form mastered better than 1000 attempted.

Tam Tui for example, if you start at 1 but get tired by 8, this does not mean you are unfit, this means you are starting too hard. If you start at 1 and feel nothing by 12, you may be doing it too effortlessly.

All kungfu training must be practised relative to what you want to achieve from it. If for fighting, only skill required. If for fitness, then stamina required.

To put down another person's art only reflects your lack of understanding your own art.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by iron_silk
This may seem somewhat off topic...but

I was wondering...I don't know much about Shaolin-Do but I have heard that the forms have similar names to chinese forms, but the movements resemble Karate and other such.

You mentioned that senior level belt learn internal forms and/or tai chi. What is the style of tai chi you practice or is it a Shaolin-Do tai chi style?

Thanks!

Yang tai chi. 24 Posture and 64 posture. There is also a Chen Tai chi form taught in SD, but I don't know it.

The other internal forms that I know are 5 elements Hsing-I, Hsing-I 5 Elements Linkage, and One side of a Hsing-I two man set. I am currently learning 12 animal Hsing-I form.

Most of what you will read here about Shaolin-do is negative. I have developed a pretty thick skin about it, but I do understand their perceived criticisms.

The forms are Chinese forms. They evolved very differently, granted, and the 'karate' was either a result of Indonesian law or marketing in America (or maybe both). If you disagree then that's fine with me but let's disagree constructively. I'd bet that we will be surprised on what we can agree with.

[iron_silk]

I don't have any criticism to give. In fact I don't really know much about it except that I recall an article about Shaolin-Do trip to China and demonstrating for the Shaolin Monks. Even then I don't really remember any of the article only some images of pictures of guys weaing gi and bare foot during performance?

Well like I said...I don't know much about this topic.

[iron_silk]

Actually I was wondering...

you said that you practiced Yang style and Hsing-I...but was this developed within the Shaolin-Do curriculum/style or was it recently added on as supplement training?

If it has been added or developed into the style from the past then how does it differ to the more traditional style?

Thanks

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by iron_silk
Actually I was wondering...

you said that you practiced Yang style and Hsing-I...but was this developed within the Shaolin-Do curriculum/style or was it recently added on as supplement training?

If it has been added or developed into the style from the past then how does it differ to the more traditional style?

Thanks

As you can see from Fred's reply below, some people really have a bone to pick and vehementely attack SD. ( but I think he is one of those guys that criticizes everything anyway)

To be honest I don't know when SD started teaching tai chi and hsing-I. It was taught to Sin The in Indonesa and he was taught by Ie Chang Ming who studied at the Southern Temple before it was destroyed. Ie Chang Ming spent time in China after the Fukien temple was destroyed. My guess is that much of the material that is incorporated into SD was shared by these Monks after the destruction of the temples.

Of course in answering your questins I'm going to draw lots of fire from some in these forums. As long as its constructive, I'll be glad to discuss my style.

[Fred Sanford]

either a result of Indonesian law or marketing in America (or maybe both).

don't even try to say that shaolin-do is kun-tao. I guess it's hard to accept the fact that you bought into a lie.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford


don't even try to say that shaolin-do is kun-tao. I guess it's hard to accept the fact that you bought into a lie.

The is from Indonesa and did learn SD there (although I don't think it was called SD until after GM The came to America). Your entitled whatever opinons you have.

[Fred Sanford]

shaolin-do = karate

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
shaolin-do = karate

FS,

Your opinion.

I'm curious. Have you ever posted a link where you weren't busting on someone else or their style? If so, please post that link.

I don't care if people want to have negative opinions about SD. If you are going to do so, at least be constructive. But, then again, some people feel better about themselves by putting other people down.

:confused:

[Fred Sanford]

have you ever checked out any indonesian martial arts? Maybe you should.

funny how shaolin-do supposedly passed through indonesia but does not seem to have any indonesian influence whatsoever.

open your frickin eyes.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
have you ever checked out any indonesian martial arts? Maybe you should.

funny how shaolin-do supposedly passed through indonesia but does not seem to have any indonesian influence whatsoever.

open your frickin eyes.

Have you? Have you ever checked out SD? Or do you just jump on the bandwagon and stir up stuff because it makes you feel important.

BTW, I never said SD was kung tao or whatever. I never said it resembles any Indonesian martial art. I simply said that Sin The learned it from Ie Chang Ming when he lived in Indonesia.

If your going to point at the speck in my eye, take out the plank in your eye first.

[Brad]

Actually I was wondering...

you said that you practiced Yang style and Hsing-I...but was this developed within the Shaolin-Do curriculum/style or was it recently added on as supplement training?

If it has been added or developed into the style from the past then how does it differ to the more traditional style?

Thanks
The Willow Sword allways claimed that if there was anything worth knowing, SD's Xingyi was it. As for the Taiji(from Mr. Mullins vid), the SD guy's techniques were more or less Yang style(it was only the first few movements of the form though). Material has obviously been added to the curriculum relatively recently, as can be seen by the inclusion of the 24 movement "Yang" form which is part of standardized wushu Taijiquan and didn't exist until 1956.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Brad

The Willow Sword allways claimed that if there was anything worth knowing, SD's Xingyi was it. As for the Taiji(from Mr. Mullins vid), the SD guy's techniques were more or less Yang style(it was only the first few movements of the form though). Material has obviously been added to the curriculum relatively recently, as can be seen by the inclusion of the 24 movement "Yang" form which is part of standardized wushu Taijiquan and didn't exist until 1956.

I also believe that Willow Sword thought that Buddha fist was a good tai chi form and practices the form himself.

[Ravenshaw]

1) 14 (13 bak sil lum and one xingyi - just started)

2) 3 1/2 years bak sil lum, and just started xingyi

3) "Don't train the basics and when you are old you will have nothing." Stances and other basic skills like conditioning and fitness are important parts of kungfu, and many go so far as to say they are most important. I train every day.

4) I generally practice the form I am learning 10 to 20 times at least twice a week. I practice my xingyi form every day and most days I practice my bak sil lum hand forms and weapon forms as much as possible, plus applications and chin na whenever I can.

5) I rarely do soft qigong, but if I do, it is before hard practice, when my mind is peaceful.

6) I practice hard qigong (Iron Palm) after hard practice.

[Brad]

I also believe that Willow Sword thought that Buddha fist was a good tai chi form and practices the form himself.
I guess TWS thought a lot of things :D

[HuangKaiVun]

Since this is the "Shaolin" forum, I might as well discuss my visit with Master Xiong (an authentic Shaolin monk in Phoenix).

I attended his afternoon class, which was almost exclusively pre-teen children. A few adults were participating, so I knew that it wasn't exclusively a kids' class. I didn't participate, but I watched. Master Xiong and I are acquaintances of each other, and I had told him that I'd visit him sometime.

The class lasted about 1 1/2 hours. It was separated into stretching, then some basic stance work, then combinations of wushu athletic moves. No forms were done that day. Breaks lasted about 5 minutes long.

For the most part, the class was pretty much the same as the one taught by my Albany wushu instructor Jiang Jianye.

[GeneChing]

I'd heard rumors of someone in Phoenix. Got website? A full name would be helpful too...