Shaolin Forms question

[bodhitree]

http://www.pitt.edu/~heshan/Curriculum.htm
This is a school of one of my Sifu's martial brothers. My Sifu teches the same forms. Does anybody know any of the history of the forms (the Shaolin ones)? Does anybody know what system these forms originated from? Thank You
Peace enlightenment and freedom

[NorthernShaolin]

I do not normally respond to questions like this and I really do not mean disrespectful to your sifu but after reviewing the curriculum, I notice that many of the sets listed are easily available by books.

There seems to be logical sequence in the order of sets but there is really no progression of a single specific style or system except a generic term Shaolin. Just my observation... (you can come to your own conclusion here).

[CLFNole]

I also noticed the same thing.

[Fen]

I also noticed that many of the sets listed are easily available by Book and or Video. And I also see no progression in that curriculum.

~Jason

[bodhitree]

Where are these videos and books available? Just curious, want to check them out. As far as my sifu, he doesn't just focus on any one particular style of shaolin, before he comes to teach us he comes streight from a Bujinkan Ninjitsu class (master Hat lineage) and has also fought Muai Thai. I have taken some Aikido and Tae Kwan Do and Some of my classmates have experiance with things like Judo and many other arts and my Sifu works on everything. I just wanted to know about the origins of these forms.

[shaolin kungfu]

Master hat?

Is there also a master garrison?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
Master hat?

Is there also a master garrison?

LOL :D

I think he means Master Hatsumi. So your sifu is originally from ninjutsu but now teaches Shaolin kung fu as well?

[Shaolin Master]

Yes, crazy when the
Wah Lum Fatal Flute (Chan Poi) are combined with dragon walking swordsmanship or The Ferocious Enchanted Staff of the Ancient Fighting Monks (Leung Ting) and topped with the Choy Li Fut Fighting Fan Set (Lee Koon Hong).
All this under what ? Ho'o Chin Pai Shaolin ....what is Ho'o Chin ?

So to answer the original questions :

The origins of the forms are from commercially available books of unrelated styles.

[bodhitree]

JoeDoe, My Sifu learned Shaolin an Tai Chi first but is open minded enough to see what Ninjitsu has to offer. I Think theres already a thread about Laoshi Garrison (inside Kung Fu Iron Palm Moelester). My Sifu teaches forms, but his main objectives are understanding, and applications. One time somebody told me "dont dig seven shallow wells when you can build one deep one" I replied: You can build the same deep well with different meterials.
Shaolin Master: My Sifu teaches all of those hand forms and a couple more. We don't practice all of those weapon forms, nor do we do any BaGua.
Thats why I'm asking questions to find out info. I don't know what Hoo Chin is, that site is not my sifu's, but one of his martial brothers, My Sifu calls our class morning star (his own name for his school. )
Peace Love and Enlightenment

[Brad]

This is a school of one of my Sifu's martial brothers. My Sifu teches the same forms. Does anybody know any of the history of the forms (the Shaolin ones)? Does anybody know what system these forms originated from? Thank You
Peace enlightenment and freedom
Wah Lum Fatal Flute Set- can be found here: http://www.wahlum.com/kung-fu_store.htm

Some of them like:
Shaolin Staff (Shaolin Chang Chuan)
Wushu Dao (Broadsword) 1
Wushu Dao 2
Wushu Dao vs Dao
Wushu Dao vs Empty Hand
Jian (Straight Sword)1
3 Sectional Staff
for example are pretty generic names and could be anything

Original 128 Movement Traditionial Form might be another way of counting the 108 form(also counted as 85 form)
Chen Man Ching’s Short Form is fairly common and you should be able to find videos of this pretty easily with a google search
Tui Shou (Push Hands) Exercise, again lots of examples to be found on video
Monkey Form, could be anything. If it is from video like someone may have sugested, it would probably be from the controversial Paulie Zink: http://www.monkeykungfu.com/

Like someone else said, most of the forms(except the Taiji) seem to be taken from a number of unrelated systems.

From his bio:
My next instructor was a Taosit Priest that I met in Alaska. I Studied with Sifu Hasan for two and half years and became one of his senior students.
This name sounds familiar, has he been discussed here before?

[CLFNole]

The question is are you okay with the fact that you are learning from someone who learned from books and videos. Some people unfortunately do not have the availability of good masters in their area and have to do whatever it takes.

Learning from books and videos is okay, although I personally am not in favor of it because a lot of things a missing from them. I know personally that some of the books my own sifu authored have some moves intentionally changed so he would know who learned from him or one of his students and who learned from the books.

Peace.

[bodhitree]

I'm only asking about the empty hand forms: Nian Shou, Ming Fo
ect.. Does anybody know the history or origin of them. Again, We do not practice those same weapon forms!

[Shaolin Master]

Romanisations are strange and hard to place if factual. However it seems they are available in many places

for example the shaolin section :
Nian Shou Lohan Boxing (Found in a Book called " Shaolin Kung Fu" ages ago which introduced things from many different martial arts but included this set in the end. It is a one man and two man set.
Other sets seem to be strange disconnected materials!

In the Baguazhang section why 3 different styles of Bagua instead of the actual bagua arrangment such as Zhuan ZHang, Mu Zhang, Lien Huan ZHang...etc..

Push Hands is a method of training not a set......Yang Style has a two man set but it is never referred to as Tui Shou.

Wing CHun forms are easily found everywhere....forms are not important there methodology is.

Wusong breaks manacles is a set from a rare style Shui Hu Quan incorporated into some wushu (book also available on this)

Mantis Beng Bu again the most popular mantis set. Available everywhere.

Monkey form ....which one? zink's or the one that is in the same series of books as the Wusong breaks manacles.


Easiest is to trace your lineage (ie teacher, teahcer's teacher etc)

hope that helps

Honestly from what you given it sounds to be truely a mixed bag of lollies




:)

[Brad]

Wusong breaks manacles is a set from a rare style Shui Hu Quan incorporated into some wushu (book also available on this)
http://three.bena.com/chinabooks/store/results.html?action=full&cart=326248586430341&--eqskudatarq=9622380301

[bodhitree]

Once again, our only similar forms are the Shaolin empty hands one listed on the left: Nian Shou (yes it is 2 man set) Ming Fo, Cong Jiao, Ect. We do practice Yang TaiJi also, but come from different training lineage on that. We Do Not do any of the Wing Chun or those weapon forms ( We do have some weapon forms but they are different).