Definition of a Challenge Match!!!

[RENEGADE_MONK]

What are your thoughts on the true definition of a challemge match between to unknown persons?First you must consider the reasons for the challenge.
1) Out of dislike for the opponent, whether giving the challenge or the person accepting

2) Out of curiosity of one's skill level against another practitioner, or system.

My view on this is, we are not in the days of the 1800's thru early 1900's. One just does not go around issuing challenge's to a total stranger and expect it to be a friendly match of tap's and hug's that's what sparring is for when we practice, but even then there comes the moment you must hit your sparring partner "of course without the intent of hurting them" We train in whatever art we decide to devote a significant amount of time to ...why? not for excercise but protect ourselves/and or family memebers when that time comes ....We train to FIGHT!!! Period!!!

My belief is there is no such thing as a friendly challenge match ...especially between strangers! and definately over the internet. Let's suppose one day you are walking down the street in the mall whatever, some strange person walks up to you and says I want to challenge you to a friendly match
your first thought of course is that this guy is crazy so then you may try and reason with him without any success, say for whatever reason you accept the challenge

1) do you go at this person like its a friendly sparring session pulling your punches like you are going against one of your classmates, and quite possibly putting your self in danger by doing so?

2) Or is set in your mind that you must DESTROY this person without SECOND guessing yourself which limits your effectiveness.

My mentality is i don't believe in such matches unless you are a classmate, close friend ect...
anything thing else such as anyone i have no knowledge of is deemed a threat to me, therefore must be dealt with PERIOD!! you have no idea of the mindset of the person that you are dealing with especially over the net so if one is fullish enough to accept such a match, that person must have the mentality that quite possibly that he may be in a fight for his life. From my experience THERE ARE NO RULES IN A STREET FIGHT!!

that's what challenge matches amount to, I think if anyone must throw around challenges like its a game they better come prepared!!

I would like to know you guy's thoughts on your definition of a Challenge match??

Taps'& Hug's, or

Seek & Destroy!!!


-A man who never makes a mistake always takes orders from one who does. Therefore I am my own man!!!

[This message was edited by RENEGADE_MONK on 06-10-01 at 01:04 PM.]

[RENEGADE_MONK]

someone rated this, atleast respond there has to be some thoughts on this subject :rolleyes:

[Wongsifu]

well it depends really If some guy comes up to oyu and says I like practising dah dah dah... and i would like us to get together and spar sometime its not a challenge its taps and hugs.
If a guy feels obliged to challenge someone because of their personal insecurity then you dont put the guys head through the wall unless he's so insecure he's psyched himself up to hurt you in which case you teach him a lesson first by beating him and then teaching him. Lastly
If a guy comes up to you and says I wanna fight you, And hes determined and pushy they you break everybone in his body to teach him that such an attitude is not desirable...

Ive finally done it I can train longer by getting paid to do nothing , and my parents always called me lazy :)
get paid online http://www.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2475225

[RENEGADE_MONK]

If I issued a challenge to you right now ...what would your response be? would you accept, or ignore it...lets say you accept for example, you don't know me therefore how could it be a friendly match, or how do you know I have friendly intentions on not harming you? again these are things one must think about. asking someone to get together with you to spar is totally different from challenging. I'm open if anyone on this board wanted to get togeteher to spar and learn from eachother, but a challenge is another realm

[This message was edited by RENEGADE_MONK on 06-10-01 at 03:43 PM.]

[Sum Sing Wong]

I think that if you accept the challenge, specialy with a person you don't know, let them set the pace and then go their pace, friendly or unfreindly intentions. Also even if you lose you will benifit from it and learn from your mistakes. So why not accept?

[Watchman]

>>>My belief is there is no such thing as a friendly challenge match ...especially between strangers!<<<

I agree. If you decide to accept a challenge match from a stranger, then treat it as a fight.

You can go pick out blinds together when you're done with the match.

>>>let them set the pace and then go their pace, friendly or unfreindly intentions.<<<

That's an invitation for getting yourself hurt. Have you ever tried switching mental gears in the middle of a fight (not a sparring match)? Easier said than done, especially when you're dealing with some serious intensity.

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[atsai]

It was I who rated the topic. :)

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art T " onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[Sum Sing Wong]

When a person comes up to you out of the blue you are switching mental gears.

Also if a person is respectful enough to come up to you and challenge you and not just punch you in the head. I would think that he won't try and kill you. You can always come back if you get hit a couple times.

[SevenStar]

"When a person comes up to you out of the blue you are switching mental gears."

So? He said IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT...Now let's say you are fighting someone, and out of the blue someone walks up behind you. Then it is difficult to switch gears, a difficult to make snap judgements. Do you hit him?, Do you ignore him hoping he's just a bystander? Or do you...WHAM!! the guy you were originally fighting lands on your jaw with a straight right and lays you out. Tunnel vision is common when fighting. You are focusing on the task at hand. You adrenaline is helping focus more profusely on that task. When something else cones into the picture, it throws a monkeywrench into what you are doing, and it can get crazy while your brain tries to process it.

-SevenStar&copy;
"I see!" said the blind man.

[RENEGADE_MONK]

Watchman quote -Have you ever tried switching mental gears in the middle of a fight (not a sparring match)? Easier said than done, especially when you're dealing with some serious intensity"...... My point exactly

Art T- thanks for the rating!! ;)


Sum Sing Wong- If a stranger comes up to you for a challenge that is not a sign of respect, if you think it is, unfortunately you have already lost. If a person respects your ability then a challenge will never happen.

[fiercest tiger]

what happens if a guy walks into your school and issues a challange, and says its friendly! i dont believe it and i tell the guy no fark off or he attacks anyway, im not gonna play the sparring game.
that means my life is in danger and my family and friend, students will suffer if i fall back and hit my head on the floor and die. all because you wanna prove yourself, bull**** you step into a fight its all out baby, ill hit 1st and ask questions later. my student its another story ill spar and play the game so to speak with them, i have no intention of trying to hurt my friends.

there is never a friendly match, well ive never seen one! even a light spar turns nasty, when one gets abit hard, the other will go harder untill its on...and it happens.

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Losttrak]

Although this isnt very "kung fu movie-ish", dont ever accept a challenge without making them sign a waiver. =p If they are so dead-set on challenging you, they can wait for proper legal documentation. Not only that, but unless you issued an open challenge to fight at any time you have the right to choose when. If you DID issue a any time/place then its balls-to-the-wall time. From what I was told, most people don't get past the waiver part. Once they read that if they are KILLED, MAIMED, or DISFIGURED you can in no way be held liable... they tend to sober up. Ask your local sifu, see what they say about this. I am sure they have some contingency in this event.

"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."

[OdderMensch]

I just the other night "challenged" several random people in a bar. :D it was after Taji Legacy, and we saw them doing some drills. well we had been doing the same so we went over and introduced ourselves. We spoke for a bit then "touched hands" it was fun, no one got hurt and i learned a bit.

before touching hands we talked about schools and forms and what not, if id have tought the other guy had been a freak i'd have politly left. I asume thed've done the same. I didnt step in swinging, nor did he. I never "challeged" them i disscused differnces & simmilarites of our styles.


Now maybe later on someone will come up to me with a hand written scroll anouceing intent to kick my ass :rolleyes: but ive no problem with someone coming up to talk and it becomeing an impromto touching of hands. Hell that sounds like fun.

that being said, if someone just came up said "your KF sucks" and threw a kick my way well.... them's fighin' words&trade; and them's definatly fightin' acts. :mad:

[This message was edited by OdderMensch on 06-10-01 at 11:38 PM.]

[This message was edited by OdderMensch on 06-10-01 at 11:40 PM.]

[RENEGADE_MONK]

OdderMensch quote "I just the other night "challenged" several random people in a bar. it was after Taji Legacy, and we saw them doing some drills. well we had been doing the same so we went over and introduced ourselves. We spoke for a bit then "touched hands" it was fun, no one got hurt and i learned a bit"

This is not considered a challenge, basically what you guys were doing was nothing more than a practice session ;)

[Knifefighter]

I've done several challenge matches and I would say you can almost always judge the intensity level from the start. Sometimes the intensity is all out from the beginning, sometimes it stays relatively mellow, sometimes it escalates and sometimes it begins at a higher level than the opponent originally let on, but it doesn't take long to figure out how hard to go.

As far as switching levels and intensities during a fight, my belief is that it is important to be able to do this if you ever find yourself in a "real" situation and want to stay out of legal trouble.

[Watchman]

I agree, but it's difficult under intense circumstance, and takes some exposure and familiarity to a highly intense emotional environment to learn that "composure". It's easy to get stuck in gears when the adrenaline is flowing.

I'm sure you would agree that there's a diference in approach to a "friendly sparring bout" and a challenge match.

[RENEGADE_MONK]

^^^^

[Losttrak]

It seems sarcasm is lost in forum posts. I dont think OM was serious about challenging them, thus the " " around challenge.

I base the intensity on how I view the opponent. Is he a knuckle-dragging choad trying to make himself feel better? Is he a true stylist looking to improve his knowledgebase? I will respond to each according to my personal bias.

"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."

[Crimson Phoenix]

I know I might get some hostile reactions to what I am going to say (but obviously I don't care since I'll say it anyway heheheheehh).
I have always been very uncomfortable with this challenge issue...it seems that nowadays people all believe that in the past gong fu experts would accept challenges to prove their school's value or to defend it...but what about wude? What about humility? objectively, what is the point of accepting a challenge: you have to prove something to someone? or to yourself? What is the point?
All of the top-notch experts in the past who challenged others didn't do it to prove their style is better than their opponent's or to take their place, they did it to learn from them and to learn about their own practice as to make it even better...I have many examples of this, coming from good sources...It makes me wonder if these challenges between sifus to save the honor of their school are not another mystification carried on by novels of the past and gong fu movies...you know chinese like these kind of stories...
I personaly can witness that the meanest fighters I know are the ones who fight the least...even when they get bull****ted, they stay calm and don't say nothing...whereas some stupid young bulls with 3 years of gong fu feel they can talk shi@t of anyone and whoop their asses if they get a look they don't like...
I'm not asking you to agree with me here and I know that lots of you guys here have been challenged and took it...I also want to add that my post applies only if the challenge stays at the verbal level, because if you get attacked then it's not a challenge anymore, it's a declaration of war and you know what to do...I know that personaly if someone talks **** about my style I won't make a big fuss about it, I'll say fine, that's your opinion, I'm going back to train...but when I need to fight and I'm in danger, I'll be there and I won't talk, I'll act...As someone said, there is no friendly fight...fighting is not a joke, either you fight hard, mean and for real because you have to, either you shut up and leave...it can be hard for the ego, but it's better this way...I'm sorry but I don't see the point of accepting challenges to prove your school, even if supposedly it was very important back in the past (I said supposedly because I personaly feel it wasn't as important as we nowadays think it was).
This was just my opinion, don't take it personaly or anything...

[Ish]

I'd have to agree with Crimson Phoenix. Although i've never been chalanged i wouldn't accept if i was. If the chalanger didn't accept my decision not to fight and started something anyway then i would react in the most physical way i could. I don't think any chalanges can be friendly if they are it isn't a chalange it's just practicing or sparing.
Just my opinion