My observations about WC

[IronFist]

I've noticed that WC seems to work when you're just like standing there and someone comes up to you and goes to hit you. For example, at bars last semester sometimes I'd get there and my drunk friend's would jokingly take a swing at me. I'd usually tan da or pak da it instantly, but of course stop my fist right in front of their face.

Or, same thing, I was walking through the hallway after class one day and one of my friends was like "hey" so I turned around and there was a fist coming right at me so I pak da'ed it.

Now, I realize they weren't actually trying to hurt me in these situations, but it's still an interesting observation I think... that WC seems to flow naturally if you're not expecting a fight.

I don't think something like boxing would have flowed the same. Although, if I had been trained in boxing it might have.

But, when I was in my university's NHB martial arts club sparring, using WC felt kind of unnatural to me so a lot of times I'd try boxing techniques instead (although WC did feel better sometimes).

Haha knock on wood.

IronFist

[Mr Punch]

Yep. Quite often.

A lot of WC as taught by 'standard' schools tends to limit you against committed attacks by trained people. This shouldn't be the case.

Usually this is more the case with people affiliated to a strongly dogmatic 'standard' school... so I don't understand why you're having this problem... have you even found a school yet?

Why are you trying boxing techniques? Especially if you haven't even trained boxing either?:D One of the points WC has in common with boxing is that you should be able to produce a good attack from any angle at any range without compromising your structure (talking stand-up of course). But, in many schools, there's too much Pavlov and not enough dog, so especially training by yourself, I don't see why you have a problem!

Don't forget, WC is a framework to improve your fighting. It is not a fighting technique or even a set of fighting techniques.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Mat
Why are you trying boxing techniques? Especially if you haven't even trained boxing either?:D

Yes, oh yeah, in the NHB class they taught us boxing techniques. It was funny, we spent most of the time doing grappling, so I only learned jab, cross, and hook, but never got around to learning uppercut. Heh. Anyway, the people who were in charge of the class were convinced that Boxing/Muay Thai was the way to go, and would sometimes yell at me when I busted out the WC. Usually I would get owned anyway, because most of the people there had years and years of experience, but one time I did chain punch this noob all the way across the mat :D

So, that's why I would do boxing sometimes, because I was getting sick of being yelled at for doing WC.

Actually though, the main problem that I felt was that during fighting, WC has a relatively motionless stance; you don't "bounce" the way a boxer does. I would always feel stiff in footwork compared to the boxers who were bouncing. I just thought I'd throw out that Bruce Lee bounced, too ;) But yeah, it's most likely cuz my WC footwork sucks, but I would always get owned in footwork too by the boxers.

K I gotta run I'll post more later.

IronFist

[IronFist]

bump

124 views and 2 replies? 1 reply if you don't count mine.

Talk. This is more fun than arguing about lineage, isn't it?

Or about how lifting weights will make you slow :rolleyes:

Or about some other crap.

Does anyone ever fight with their WC, or do they just train in the kwoon all day against other WC'ers?

IronFist

[yuanfen]

What kind of replies are you looking for?

Good wc works in self defense and not just aginst wc-ers.

[kj]

Originally posted by IronFist
bump

124 views and 2 replies? 1 reply if you don't count mine.

Guess I didn't understand what the question was.



Talk. This is more fun than arguing about lineage, isn't it?

Depends.



Or about how lifting weights will make you slow :rolleyes:


Who said that?



Or about some other crap.

Does anyone ever fight with their WC, or do they just train in the kwoon all day against other WC'ers?

IronFist

A chat room visit might yield better results for this sort of dialog.

Regards,
- kj

[IronFist]

I wanted comments on this:


Actually though, the main problem that I felt was that during fighting, WC has a relatively motionless stance; you don't "bounce" the way a boxer does. I would always feel stiff in footwork compared to the boxers who were bouncing. I just thought I'd throw out that Bruce Lee bounced, too But yeah, it's most likely cuz my WC footwork sucks, but I would always get owned in footwork too by the boxers.

Thanks,

IronFist

[yuanfen]

Unfortunately- lots of folks dont really learn enough wing chun
in order to develop wing chun footwork- far more versatile than boxing and much less prone to falling down.

Without bouncing a good wc person should be able to catch boxers in their bouncing and cut them off when they are moving side to side.

[Mr Punch]

Tell us what you mean by 'bouncing'?

Joy, I would maybe agree, but for the fact that most times there are no good WCers who fight boxers! Most WCers don't put enough time in on footwork, and most boxers do. So most of the times the 'good' ('mediocre' maybe!) boxers' footwork should interrupt and disrupt the WCers' rhythm and structure... And cut them off whenever they move!

Don't forget boxers don't move around for the sake of it. And if you try to cut off a boxer and go in too straight for a little tete-a-tete it's the long kiss goodnight!

So, yes, Ironfist, you're right, your WC does have a relatively motionless stance, and your footwork sucks!:p :D Don't sweat it, probably on a par with 90% of the WCers you'll ever meet... like me!!!:D

Train your footwork more on your dummy. Go for a balance of speed and root, but I would say, train your root more. If you think it's functional... try again! Then train speed. When you move in make sure your legs are relaxed like your arms should be, so when you bash (:eek::D) them into the leg of the dummy you don't disrupt your own structure.

It's better if you have actually been taught the dummy form!:rolleyes: I take it you haven't/haven't found a teacher yet/have found a teacher but haven't been judged worthy so far...? If not, some people teach dummy drills before the form... which can be very useful.

Of course, you can work your CK, if you've taught yourself that yet... to develop the root whilst moving, and your SLT to develop root... in fact practise everything you've ever studied! Then go get owned with pride!!!:p :D

BTW, they shouldn't be able to recognize you're using your WC unless you have your elbows too far in/you're getting owned... oh... oops...!:D

Good luck...

Hope this helps: may be more helpful at some time... feeling a little impish today!

[Mr Punch]

BTW, you're doing a great job of talking to yourself, mate!

You're envious aren't you Mat?

Yeah, mad skillz, mate...!

(wanders off to eat small winged insect...)

[Merryprankster]

So, that's why I would do boxing sometimes, because I was getting sick of being yelled at for doing WC.

Well, that kind of sucks. I'm sorry you encountered that.

I'm sure WC has much to offer in foot work. Less prone to falling down than boxing. In your opinion, yuanfen ;)

Ironfist, I think you hit the nail on the head about instinctual training. I was sitting in front of a computer when a guy came in that I know and he tried to whack me a bit. I caught the motion out of the corner of my eye, covered like a boxer and slipped underneath and countered with a left. But that's what I know

[yuanfen]

MP sez-I caught the motion out of the corner of my eye, covered like a boxer and slipped underneath and countered with a left. But that's what I know
------------------------------------------------
You gotta do what you gotta do. No problem.

Wing chun actually has good covering motions- when needed.!!!

[Ernie]

don't use a tank when you need a Ferrari and visa versa,
just by the nature '' structure of wing chun '' it's foot work was not designed for speed '' unless you modify it , uh oh I shouldn't use the word modify , bad Ernie ''
so don't try to make it what it is not .
it is for close quarter stable motion, not for quick covering of distance [ that's why most wing chun people suck at closing the gap]
when is the last time you saw a foot race won by a guy in anything that resembled a wing chun stance ?
good boxers glide they don't bounce and they use there foot work like we use our sensitivity , they feel the distance and know when to go in or evade. a drill I have seen used and done myself is the mirror drill were you keep the exact space between you and your partner and no matter how he moves you try always keep a ''bubble'' of space between you this develops eye sensitivity
add in broken rhythm and fact , explosive foot work and you have fun.
which is why most boxers don't like to be smothered , it takes away there ability to read the opponent .
I have worked out with guys who think there boxers and have no problem shutting them down '' felt pretty good about my self'' then I worked out with some good amateurs and a few pros and felt like I was standing in cement butt naked with a big target painted on my fore head.
wing chun will not give you great foot work but it does give you the footwork you need for a sudden street fight , and once you learn the butterfly knife and add a little speed to it you will get a little better but most haven't gotten that far and most don't speed it up like when you close the gap against the dragon pole .
but even that is still slower then other forms of footwork
in my training I find it better to stay loose and natural at long range no need to assume any type of stance or grounding as there is nothing to ground against but air , only when I make contact and feel the need to ground will I . if not the momentum of closing the gap or intercepting give me all the power I need for the first shot .
my 2 cents

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by Mat
So, yes, Ironfist, you're right, your WC does have a relatively motionless stance, and your footwork sucks!:p :D Don't sweat it, probably on a par with 90% of the WCers you'll ever meet... Absolutely, but let's not call it Wing Chun if it doesn't have the proper footwork. In other words, if 90% of WCers aren't implementing WC footwork (which is rarely seen), then 90% of supposed WCers are not actually doing Wing Chun.

[EnterTheWhip]

More like JKD, not Wing Chun...
This is a Wing Chun forum don't forget.

[marcelino31]

Originally posted by EnterTheWhip
Absolutely, but let's not call it Wing Chun if it doesn't have the proper footwork. In other words, if 90% of WCers aren't implementing WC footwork (which is rarely seen), then 90% of supposed WCers are not actually doing Wing Chun.

Good point.

WC does not bob and weave up and down like a boxer or move around on the balls of the feet either. So called footwork is nothing more than stepping and its something that you do instinctually not some fancy dance steps that you learn.

[EnterTheWhip]

good point marcelino

[yuanfen]

Ernie sez:
[ that's why most wing chun people suck at closing the gap]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends on what your wing chun sample consists of.
Wing Chun- done right- is a superb way of closing the gap-
BTW you dont do galloping wing chun from 10 feet out.

[Ernie]

sorry to ruffle your feathers people but i have seen great wing chun ,
and then there is the norm even great wing chun would get dropped against a pro boxer .
as for this being only a wing chun forum , I am not bound by any system nor do I need the security blanket of the title of a system or to be part of some special group .
wing chun skill is mine to use how I see fit and when I see fit .I take it as a compliment that you see me thinking out of the box.
as wsl put it '' don't be a slave to wing chun''
the experiences are mine not yours , I doubt any of you have ever stood in front of a pro boxer and found your step in slide foot work useful to close the gap.
but I could be wrong as I am not you . I recognize the weakness of wing chun as I have no fear in applying it in strange and uncomfortable environments for the sake of my research.
and until you have walked the walk and been consistant then I can't take what you say as anything more then empty words echoing from some one else's mouth.
but then again I could be wrong. but I doubt it.
here is a little test find a good savate man or skilled boxer that is lighter then you and got into a open area and see if you can intercept him .
then come back and tell me all about it I would to compare notes
if you haven't done it you don't got the right to talk about it .:cool:

[foolinthedeck]

someone mentioned the fact that bruce lee 'bounced'

yes - in the movies!!!
i never saw any footage of him doing that while doing wing chun, nor is there any in the tao of JKD, if he did than ip Man would have slapped him.

'wing chun is not fast'
huh?

i never saw anyone win any foot race while 'bouncing' either..

why exactly do u need to root into the earth when not in contact with an opponent anyway? if you could bounce around and then only assume wing chun stance and footwork once contact had been made then there wouldnt be much problem, but most people keep 'bouncing' with no root, no power.

[Ernie]

i got 8 mm video of bruce sparring witn inasanto and he didn't bounce but he did glide like sugar ray lenord. on the out side but tightend up once he came in.
people who simulate boxing bounce . people who have good got work are light on there feet . there is a difference . as for yip man who cares what he would do or say . he never had to face a western fighter we do.
tradition will get you killed , leave the past in the past and make your own future .
even though bruce could move like a boxer and hit like a truck doesn't mean i will .
so screw what bruce did in that aspect but it's the training and reserch and commitment that we can take from him.
it's all empty until you can do it your self . if your sifu never really fought then test what he gives you cuz he might not of and if your a sifu and you haven't put in the flight time , then i suspect your product .
look if you think wing chun foot is fast maybe to you it is . see it coming a mile away .

[PaulH]

Ernie,

I see that you ruffled some feathers already! All I can say to this thread is " board does not hit back!" When you do the forms, the target is dead or moves in predictable patterns. Real fight will be full of pressure and other resisting surprises that will offset all your favorite techniques' timing and range. One need to be more inventive, flexible and adaptive in order to do the WC concept successfully in such an environment. You will be surprised on how much you can actually score against a good moving boxer. Experience is always an eye opener to me.

Regards,

[Ernie]

paul
how hard am i to hit when i decide to use my foot work?

[fa_jing]

Well I've sparred my teacher maybe 30 or 40 times, and he used to box. This included rounds of straight up boxing. All I have to say is, WC footwork is versatile and just as good within the WC framework as boxing footwork (which varies considerably BTW) is within it's framework. WC stepping drills taught me how to move.

The comparison of an amatuer fighter to a professional is an unfair one. Compare yourself to someone of the same time of study and level of dedication.

Now, some people confuse stancework for standing around striking a pose. They are heading down the wrong path.

Furthermore, failure to jump rope or adequately substitute for this type of training will leave you with ineffective footwork, no matter what your style.

[Ernie]

as i said earlier ,
dealing with people who think they can box and dealing with pro boxers is were i learned my lesson,
people who think they can box don't have the finesse or elusive foot work that a pro has , they may move around but the still get flat footed and come at you in the end ,which works in favor of wing chun .
but good boxers ,savate men and some stick fighters are like cats off angle ,broken rythem,elevation changes , great fakes ,and in and out mobility that's very hard to deal with.
i got into this more as a result of training with multiple attackers if you take time to ground and assume a posture you get wrecked . you have to keep it alive ''as others have said''
dealing with these extremes make it alot easier to deal with a single stationary opponent.
i have seen good savate dudes pick abart wing chun sifu's on more than one occasion and with more than one teacher , as well with very good boxers not use to be but currrently still fighting .
i know this is not the norm for most but it is a almost everyday thing for me .
realities will differ.

[yuanfen]

ernie sez:
realities will differ

:D

[PaulH]

Okay,

I just got back home. With regards to your mobility, I know I cannot hit you at all. Your eyes see things way ahead before I can even go half way through my motion. While lot of your fighting ability and attributes have to do with JKD training, I reckon that you beat me more with skillful use and adaptation of WC concepts and strategies.

Regards,

[Ernie]

i didn't want to make a me against you thing , just makeing a point because you have worked out with me. everybody has there day next week it might be me on the floor looking up and being proud of you cuz you dropped me,
but remeber my approach take the skills in wing chun and take test them through the modern training approaches of jkd concepts ,there way more advancedthen wing chun, i figure wing chun gave so much to the development of jkd , it's time for jkd to give something back.
and if i pick up a few hieghted attributes along the way'' like good foot work and eye sensitivity'' so be it.
and if it increase my chance of survival in a real street fight ''chi sau session''
then that's enough for me.
be well paul hope to be on the end of your punches soon:p :p

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by Ernie
but remeber my approach take the skills in wing chun and take test them through the modern training approaches of jkd concepts ,there way more advancedthen wing chun, i figure wing chun gave so much to the development of jkd , it's time for jkd to give something back.


Are you joking?

[hunt1]

Ernie sorry but I disagree with you. I dont know what professional boxes you have trained against nor do I know who taught you WC but WC skill is not the same. Having famous teachers or ancestors doesnt mean any true skill has been passed down and often fame is more based on good press than on true skill.
One of my old WC training partners was 18-0 as a light heavyweight and was a sparing partner of both Larry Holmes and Ken Norten when they were heavyweight champs. Now my friend was always the first to say he wasnt a very good boxer although I dont think you get to 18-0 without some skill. But in his opinion our Sifu and a few others in our class at the time would have taken apart every pro boxer he had ever faced in the ring or sparring. He based this on his boxing vs WC sparring sessions we did. The biggest difference maker from his point of view was WC footwork and kicks.

[Ernie]

etw[Are you joking?]
no just advancing/ talk to mme when you have tried it and tell what you experience untill then your words lack experience.
i did not say wing chun training to learn the core idea's of wing chun was bad but to take it into the ouside world against skilled opponents requires more reasearch on a individual basis.

[hunt1 Ernie sorry but I disagree with you. I dont know what professional boxes you have trained against nor do I know who taught you WC but WC skill is not the same. Having famous teachers or ancestors doesnt mean any true skill has been passed down and often fame is more based on good press than on true skill.
One of my old WC training partners was 18-0 as a light heavyweight and was a sparing partner of both Larry Holmes and Ken Norten when they were heavyweight champs. Now my friend was always the first to say he wasnt a very good boxer although I dont think you get to 18-0 without some skill. But in his opinion our Sifu and a few others in our class at the time would have taken apart every pro boxer he had ever faced in the ring or sparring. He based this on his boxing vs WC sparring sessions we did. The biggest difference maker from his point of view was WC footwork and kicks. ]

the last guy i trained with was ''carliss don't know his last name'' but he was evander holy fields sparring partner he is 6'8'' and 340 pounds, a monster. i'm 5'11'' 190 pounds and i don't use kicks as this is for experience not termination.
i got to move around with james tony and the one of the wheeler brothers .
also a guy named xavier he is or was the europen kickboxing champion.
walter '' the sleeper'' muay thai champ.
these are some that have had a little fame and all much better then myself by far . but the lessons i have learned and what i have seen can be accomplished by the human body this is priceless
as far as wing chun people i have touched hands with gary lam ''my sifu'', hawkins ''senior and friend''.david peterson ''early on in my training,micheal louison also early on.
all expert wing chun men so trust me i have seen quality
in the jkd world dan inasanto '' incredible himan being '' paul vunak '' most honest and gifted street fighter i have yet to see''
and robert kincaid '' he is a instructer under paul and a monster with a big heart.
i have also worked out with kathy long '' one bad lady''
the rest you wouldn't know.
as for passing down of w.c. skill and fame being over inflated , i agree it's not who you learn from '' though this can lengthen or shorten the basic learning curve''
it's what you as a individual do when you get this info.
do you play it safe and just play chi sau till you die , or do you step out of the school and try new flavors,
my question to all of you is how are you gaining experience out side the comfort zone of the school . what are you giving back to you sacred wing chun by going and testing it ,researching it and helping it progress.?
or are you just living off the achievements of others and feeling good about your selves passing on what so in so said .
if by gaining experiencese and keeping my self open minded means i in some way am not doing your interpetation of text book wing chun'' by the way what is wing chun then ?''
then so be it .
i am sorry if i sound mean or whatever when i right , trust me i'm not i just have no patience for those that talk about what other people do as if it were there own.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by Ernie
etw[Are you joking?]
no just advancing/ talk to mme when you have tried it and tell what you experience untill then your words lack experience. Ernie, you have no idea.

posted by Ernie
i did not say wing chun training to learn the core idea's of wing chun was bad but to take it into the ouside world against skilled opponents requires more reasearch on a individual basis.Let's be specific... Perhaps your Wing Chun required this of you. Not all Wing Chun is created equal.

It's great that you were able to train with that long list of supposed greats. It says nothing about you. On this forum, what you say is your credibility. So far, it sounds like your JKD is great, and I'm really happy for you. But your Wing Chun is terrible, so why not desist from calling it Wing Chun, since your doing JKD.

Wing Chun gave birth to JKD by means of a man who had a very limited understanding of Wing Chun.

[Ernie]

etw
[Ernie, you have no idea]
then instead of turning a perfectly good opprtunity to share information into , '' an assumption of skills and abilities , my daddy can beat your daddy up cuz i said so''
why don't you step and share some of your experiences to enlighten me and then i will some idea of your credability.
so that we may all learn from you extensive and definitive knowledge of what is wing chun.
i honestly feel that if you don't test it it will never grow , and if all you do is test it in class , it will never have any real depth and lack the ability to deal with change.
i will not stoop so low as to assume what you can do or who you learn from , that can not be verified unless we meet in person .but if you feel like everything you need to know about street combat is attainable in the warm safe confines of a class then please enlighten me , so that i don't have to work so hard .
share with me your personal and actual experiences .

[fa_jing]

Ernie - Well I'm not sure if I'm in the group that you want to be responding to your inquiry - since I am not a Wing Chun purist, nor do I think it's the "best" style, although it is certainly the one I favor. Nor do I have many years of study in the art.

However, I have fought full contact at an amateur level, and got a nasty concussion to show for it. 2-2 is my record.

Cardiovascular condtioning did me in both times - in both cases, it was my second fight of the day. I do train cardio just not for enough time. My first loss was against my junior classmate, who had gotten a bye for the previous round. My second loss was against a gentleman with about 15 years in MA compared to my 3 years of Wing Chun and 18 months of TKD 12 years ago. My wins were against a 10-year student of Karate and an advanced Black Sash student of Northern Shaolin.

I've played with my friend a few times who studies TaiJi and Shaui-Chiao.

Anyway, I'm probably nowhere near as experienced of a fighter as yourself - however I still hold my opinions on Wing Chun and JKD. Partly because my Sifu is also a 10-year JKD student of Ted Wong.

Personally, I don't like the Jun Fan (Bruce's personal) style too much. Whenever we spent time on that, I was thinking "I'd rather learn more Wing Chun"

However, in the looser, "concepts" sense, yes I loved hitting the bags, doing the airshield drill, hitting the focus mitts with drills derived from both Wing Chun and Western boxing, working on conditioning, sparring 3 min rounds with 16 oz. boxing gloves, etc.

However, I don't think JKD has a monopoly on these methods. Bruce popularized these, but any style can kick it up another notch (if they wish) and I don't think they owe anything to JKD other than "thanks for popularizing the notion."

I think I'm actually on your side here, 'cause I like cross-training, I like to include moves from other arts. I love leg hooking and I know about 7-8 takedowns that I can perform well. I like groundfighting although I'm no BJJ expert. I like to throw a low, flat-fisted lead punch while sinking into a deep horse and follow up with a rising punch with the rear hand, a motion that I derived from my brief study of the NPM system.

I just think that some people over-emphasize the importance of JKD. Also, I don't quite agree with what you're saying about stances, I don't agree that all boxers do the dance thing when they are in the contact range. More like outside of it. Good Boxing footwork on the inside resembles Wing Chun so much that a beginner would not be able to tell them apart. A boxer will even square up his feet often when the fighting is close. Footwork varies of course.

And again, I have always thought that WC footwork and concepts were a great way to approach fighting and they contribute greatly to my personal style, I have not been betrayed by WC, only I have fallen short of implementing WC. I've never confined myself to WC - but I feel that as I progressed, I would get closer and closer to WC - that more of the flavor would enter into my personal style.

[Ernie]

fa_jing ,

fa_jing Ernie - Well I'm not sure if I'm in the group that you want to be responding to your inquiry

your exactly the type of person , because your willing to put up your honest experiences and what you as a individual have learned from them. i don't expect people to agree or disagree that is all relevant to there lives and the situations they have to deal with it's the sharing of information that counts.

Anyway, I'm probably nowhere near as experienced of a fighter as yourself - however I still hold my opinions on Wing Chun and JKD. Partly because my Sifu is also a 10-year JKD student of Ted Wong.

experience is also a personal thing , it's what the person draws from that experience that counts . just because i was dumb enough to stand in front of very skilled fighters doesn't mean i'm good i just wanted to face my fears and see what it was like to get off my a$$ and step to the plate .
what i learned beside the fact that i was way out classed is how to face fear. these people were not fighting to kill me just working out any one of them at any given moment could have dropped me . but the respected i was trying to figure out my wing chun , trying to put some of the theory to test.
and i'll be honest with you when my tiiming was right and i just let go it worked out pretty well, even some of these people i played with who had reservations about the wing chun system were impressed and this allowed me to continue training with them . but some just turned up the steam and proved they were better . all in all i still learned since they fight for a living the fact that i pushed them to the point that they got heavy handed , told me alot about wing chun .
you should know i only had about 2 years of wing chun at the time i started to try it out on this level i was hardly a good representitive ''
as for the jkd thing. i think if i'm not mistaken ted wong is a jun fan man . i worked out with the concepts guys , i say worked out with cuz i never actually trainined in the system i just happen to be on the recieving end of some talented guys . and they were very open and giving . but the only system i have put time money and commitment into is wing chun.
but that being said , the best all around street fighter i know is a concepts man , and i have been humbled and educated many times by this individual .
this is were i have seen the wholes in wing chun ''training '' made obvious to me .
he went with me to a few wing chun seminars ,and there were some very hard core wing chun believiers there ,
that decided to pook fun at his approach , and wnated to test his skill .he tried to stay out of it as to not disrespect the guys holding the seminars '' who were not involved in this silly challenge''
but it kept on so at lunch brak we went out back and i watched these hard head wing chun men get dropped over and over again. now these guys were good at wing chun many years my seniors so i was shocked and a little disapointed .
but my friend pointed out to me and to them it wasn't that they weren't good fighters but that they lacked the ability to respond to different lines of attack and the distance and foot work he used .
so to make something good out of it he slowed down and let them find wing chun soulutions for the problem .
and this opened my eyes to the need to step outside and experience the unknown .
i find in my limited experience that the jkd people i have run across seem to have a deeper undrstanding and desire to place them selves in this unknown area for the sake of personal development .
so i adopted the process in my wing chun training. and i have had good results from it.
doesn't mean you will but i'm not afraid to be open and share what happed to me .

[Ernie]

fa_jing



I don't agree that all boxers do the dance thing when they are in the contact range. More like outside of it. Good Boxing footwork on the inside resembles Wing Chun so much that a beginner would not be able to tell them apart. A boxer will even square up his feet often when the fighting is close. Footwork varies of course.

sorry forgot to comment on this , this is after all what started the whole thing .
there are simple universal truths and when you stip away all the names and just look at the action you will see them , in close quater boxing,kali,panantukan, wing chun and so on all have very similar triangular foot work the only difference is the preferred power source as wing chun men we fire in a striaght line and off the gound and stay squared up '' thus trying to maximize body alighnment and ground power ''. the others like to twist and use body power that is supported by the ground .
besides that the angles and targets are similar . but it's to be expected of two people with two legs and two arms in close range trying to hit each other and avoid being hit .
now in boxing they have limited tools and were gloves , in kali the are weapon based so the don't put so much wieght on there shots as a blade only need a flick so speed and angle are more important . so there are some differences but if your aware of them you can then understand why each one is right in there own mind.
as for long range this is a whole different monster and really depends on you physical ability , if you are fast on your feet , you can cover ground before some one responds , or fake like a basket ball player or foot ball player does and open up a line of attack while the person is trying to adjust '' slow down angry wing chun people i'm just talking experience not style ''
if you don't have that athletic ability then you need to develop timing to enter or counter . no matter how you stand if you don't have good timing you will still not respond correctly.
so to me the skill is far more important then the stance , the question really should be is who are you developing your skill to deal with this situation and can you share your drills with us .
i work alot of a two on one situation i get two people with gloves on preferbly from different style and let them hit my body aboyut 50 percent not trying to get any broken bones ,
and i play in this enviroment and see what works for me . after i line up with just one person and find it a lot easier to close the gap or respond to his attack . strees over load training i think it's called .
just my approach to foot work and distance what is yours.