yet another question showing bordom at the wee hours of the morning

[Leimeng]

~ Believe it or not, this is not a troll.
~ Is there any person here who is honestly convinced that they don’t have the best teacher and best style?
~ Is this feeling a result of ego? How about a sense of insecurity? How much of your opinion is base on empirical evidence?
~ As a side note: Who would you consider the best LIVING teacher outside your own school and style? Who would you want to study with if you had two LIVING teachers outside your school/system/style that you could study with them full time for three years?
~ Now to answer my own questions first:
~ I believe it! This is not a troll! J
~ In my short time in the martial arts I have been exposed to many masters and teachers from all over the world. I have seen many countries and many styles. I feel that I am in the best training system possible. This is based on seeing probably one hundred schools and masters and crossing hands with many of their senior students or they, themselves. I have been whooped many times under many circumstances by many of these individuals. However, I think the hardest I have been hit on a consistent basis by the broadest range of students and instructors is in my present training system.
~ Most martial artist start training I think out of some sense of insecurity. Unless an individual grows up in a family that is very active and involved in martial arts to begin with, my co-students all come from a situation that they want to improve themselves.
~ I don’t exactly know for sure who is the best living teacher outside of my system. In fact, I don’t claim to have the very best, but, it is the best training I have been exposed to. However, I respect many teachers. I have heard that Jeng Hsing Peng is an outstanding Shuai Chiao instructor. William C.C. Chen also has a good reputation. When was doing some work in Caracas, I heard of a White Crane Master of was the Crème de la crème. In fact, I heard about this guy from three totally unrelated sources in three totally different countries! I did like Dr Xie Pei Qi for Bagua also.
~ I think I would look for a good Shuai Chiao guy or one of O’Sensei’s senior students that he taught before the occupation.
~ I am sure I could ramble on more, but I do have to get back to training and studying.

Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

[Vapour]

I know my teacher is not the best taijiquan practioner in town because he personally said that one other guy in other school is better than him. On the other hand, I believed I picked the best style (Zheng Man Qing) *for me* and I have a feeling that head of our school know better than the head of this other school.

The reason for assesement is because the head of other school tend to engage in We-R-Da-Best game. On the other hand, the head of our school don't do that kind of thing and still seek out any teacher from any style (taijiquans, other internals and externals) he can find from whatever soucre to learn. And he train 8 hours a day 7 days a week. Plus he is physically bigger and stronger than other guy. When skill level is equal, Size and Strength does matter.

I *know* my teacher can't instruct (in term of teaching a class). He always turn up late in class. If someone ask a question, He start chatting with us and forget about class for a while so everybody stop practcing. He is absolutely hopeless in teaching large number of students. I did make few inquiry and found out that that is the way all his sifu(s) teach. No wonder Japanese martial arts are far more widespread than Chinese one.

On the other hand, he doesn't do I'm-your-master/instructor/sensei thingy. We call him with his first name and after lesson, we sometimes go to pub together. His view is quit down to earth. I value his opinion highly because he doesn't hide behind mysticism.

And yes, his taijiquan kick arse, IMHO. :)

[count]

When you start out making people question their belief systems you most definitely are trolling for debate. For me, the answer to your question about who to study with, changes all the time. I have recently tried to see and meet other teachers from other systems to challenge my own beliefs and have yet to find anyone with as solid background, education, and skills combined with as good a heart and willingness to share everything openly and honestly as my own. In the past I have met hundreds of teachers and students. If I had a choice based on that, I would either train with Wai Lun Choi in Chicago or Chen Xiao Ping In New York. Notice I limit my choices to teachers in the United States? I'm sure there are people with skills beyond these guys but what they say and show could be inhibited by language and culture. Still, there are a few in China and Taiwan I would be interested in spending a year or two with. Lou Di Xiu, Chen Xiao Wang, and He Jing Han come to mind but there are so many out there teaching. Other possibilities are Su Yuchang for mantis or piqua. Probably the white crane teacher you are talking about. Li Tai Liang for Hsing-I. Adam Hsu. Su Dong Cheng. David Lin (not the one in New York).

I saw a performance recently by a teacher here who I have met and experienced his methods in both class or demonstration. He has a reputation as a successful fighter in hardcore fighting in Japan. I might even have him in my list of people to train with. I noticed a tiny, bald, older guy in the crowd alone and watching closely. For some reason I was wondering more about him than the demonstration. Everyone else in the crowd was wildly impressed and talking about the speed and power that this teacher demonstrated. Than I heard someone ask their teacher what he thought. He pointed to the short guy I had been watching and said "that guy over there would kick his ass, but you will never see him say anything or show it". The point is as simple as "those who speak, don't know. Those who know, don't speak". All trueism's are only somewhat true. It is somewhat true that "those who can do, those who can't, teach". I consider the ones listed above as exceptions.

For me, training CMA was not out of a sense of insecurity as much as it was a sense of survival. Not only day to day survival but the long road. In traveling down that "long road", I sometimes stop and ask directions. At times, the people I have asked have chosen to walk with me for a while and pointed out things along the way. I value them all equally no matter how insignificant it seems at the time. One of the other teachers above told me once, "you will discover many keys to open doors in your own practice. When you do, grab it, hold on to it, and never let it go". The person you choose to learn from is less important than your own ability to recognize reality. No one holds all the keys. Enough of these mixed metaphors and "fortune cookie" philosophies. I have to go practice and train myself.:cool:

[Leimeng]

~ Ok, perhaps I should define my terms and thoughts a little more.
~ When I think of trolling, I think of someone who just wants to argue that their own school is soo much better than anyone else’s that other people are inferior to them. These “trolls” are they type that are more interested in arguing just to argue than actually learn and interact with others.
~ I DO want to hear opinions that might not agree with or make me question myself.
~ I have no problem with asking questions or making statements that make a person question what they are learning. I WANT people to make statements that make me think and question what I am learning. It helps a person see things from a different perspective hopefully. That is how we grow.
~ Debate is a very good thing when we use it properly. It is also a whole lot more fun than some love-fest type of forum where everyone just compliments each other and agrees with each other all the time.
~ I am not, and would not want to make a blanket statement that what “I” study is superior to what you or anyone else studies. I am quite aware of individuals of very high skill that most of us never meet or probably even hear about.
~ As to personal growth: Why do we feel the need for it in the first place? It seems to me that we are not satisfied or secure in the knowledge we already have so we pursue new areas to improve in and learn. Sounds like a form of insecurity to me... Now for me, physically I have always been rather large and liked to scrap a bit. If I wear a leather jacket and put a scowl on my face and have good posture, most people will leave me a bit of space as I walk down the street. (Unfortunately, I can only wear my leather jacket about two months a year in sunny Arizona. ) But, I know that I am not the best, so I chose to study MA to learn about myself and be better. Insecurity is NOT a bad thing. It can be a good thing if we learn to use it as a motivating factor.
~ I agree that the answer about who we think is the best is and who to study with changes all the time. It also varies from person to person. It also depends on ones goals. For instance, I have a friend here who competes in modern PRC WuShu and Judo. She can’t understand why anyone would ever study a traditional Chinese martial art. Her goals are obviously very different than most people in this forum. She wants to look pretty and get medals. She has several. She started to study to gain control of her energy and for health. I have other friends who want to compete in point fighting and kick-boxing. They study TKD and sport karate. (They can’t fight that well though... )
~ I read an article once about how one instructor spends large sums of money and a great deal of time looking for other masters to learn from. Most the time he is of great skill than they are, but he still seeks. The reason is because one statement or body movement that is presented even slightly differently can make radical changes and developments in his skill.
~ As a final point, questions like this come from working all night, sleeping all day and having a bit of downtime when things are slow to think of stuff like this.
~ I hope that helps with what I was thinking.

Peace,

Sin Loi

[Vapour]

Well, troll question inflame others. I didn't feel that way so it wasn't troll.