hammer fist strikes

[neit]

do you like to use hammer fist strikes? i like them because they do not hurt my hands. however, i find that i cannot execute them as smoothly as other hand strikes such as the fore-knuckle, or orthadox punch. what are your thoughts on them?

[Shaolin Dude]

is that the one where you bang your arm on the other palm?

[neit]

no, i mean using a closed fist to "chop". just like a "knife hand" strike, but with a closed fist.

[Becca]

Could be your body mechanix. Are you leeding off with your elbow up and fist by your ear? If not, try it that way. You're not suposed to windmill your arm, it goes against the natural function of your rotater cuff.

I like to use them to divert attention from the kideny shot I'm lining up. I've noticed people actually tend to turn into the hammer fist strike, making it easy to get under thier gaurd.

I'm going to bed now. My spelling is getting worser with every key stroke.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Shaolin Dude
is that the one where you bang your arm on the other palm?

Yes, most teach to do it that way when you don't use a partener.

[Mr Punch]

Personally, I don't like them.

They don't hurt because of the nice tight muscle ball on the side of a clenched fist. But by the same token, they don't hurt your opponent as much as say, a well-placed palm.

Also, because they don't hurt in that way, there is a tendancy to perform them sloppily; which will put a lot of sudden force on the smallest, most vulnerable bone in the hand, the metacarpal, between the wrist and the little finger. My bro broke his like this nearly twenty years ago: he had to stop boxing (and no, he didn't do it in boxing!), and still has a very weak knuckle on that hand.

Why do you like them?
If it's percussion you want a short-energy palm is equal, and at less risk of damage to yourself. If it's the swiping motion you want, a relaxed open hand (say an ox-jaw, a knife-hand or a fut sao) will provide the same with room for your bones to naturally take up the slack and reposition as you hit. If it's a downward motion to cover wide area you want, I prefer a 'knuckle rake' (don't know the correct term!) like the downward backfist kind of thing in choy li fut and some branches of wing chun: great for coming down on the top of the nose, sinking through a high guard and finishing up in their philtrum/top lip. Ow :eek:

[Oso]

IF, I flank to the outside succesfully

and IF I have captured the punch and gotten an armbar good enough to drop their head into my front kick then I like to use a hammer to the base of the neck as a follow up.

[norther practitioner]

I like using hammer fist to change things up a little bit. Usually use them in succession.

[Water Dragon]

I'm a big fan. Three of the five fists I use are hammer fists.

[Shaolin-Do]

I fight way more with my hands than my feet, but I prefer jabs and hooks, use the hammer fist to divert attention mostly.
cant say I have ever combat tested its effectiveness.

[Chang Style Novice]

Three of the five fists I use are hammer fists.

It must be very difficult finding a tailor to make shirts that fit you.:p

[Shaolin-Do]

like goro from mk1 with an extra arm.

alright wd.... so where is that 5th arm hiding...?

[Black Jack]

Big fan as well.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice


It must be very difficult finding a tailor to make shirts that fit you.:p

Yeah it is, but the cheerleading squad sure loves me
:eek:

[Chang Style Novice]

More seriously, I think hammer fists are best for inside work, they seem to lack power for a long distance blow, and worse, to put your arm in a vulnerable posture. Using them in the clinch, or against the joint of a locked arm for a break seem like ideal hammertimes.

Whoooah-whoah oh whoah-oh whoah oh.

[Shaolin-Do]

Id use it on someones ribs once they were down also.
They just are too easy to telegraph and block most the time tho...
least when being thrown at me they are...
(dont really use them much, more rely on jab, hook, lots of knife and ridge hands)

[Water Dragon]

Chang, I've actually found them to be more powerful than regular fists. Of course, you can't use boxing mechanics to make them work, but throw them Xing Yi style and Whoa Boy!!

[Shaolin-Do]

what do you mean "xing yi" style?

[Chang Style Novice]

Isn't xingyi pretty inside-oriented anyway, though?

[Water Dragon]

Chang, Yes but it also has some excellant ways to get inside to that range, as well as a nasty jab out of a front hand Beng Chuan.

SD, Xing Yi delivers power from the lower back, which is why the elbow have to stay down. Boxing drives out the shoulder, which changes the way power is generated. I wish I could explain it better, but I'm a newbie to the art. I can pull it off, but I can't put it into words yet. Give me a couple years.

[Shaolin-Do]

You come down on the 7th WD?
hmm....
my arm wont be out of the sling till about the 14th.
:(
Oh well, lemme know when you are for sure comming down here, and Ill send you my cell # or some sh!t so we can practice. My room mate moved out, so I need someone to train with anyways.

[neit]

thank you all for your replies, very helpful.

[Leimeng]

~ Any technique that causes the desired effect (injury, control etc...) to your opponent is a good technique.
~ Given that, outside of my standard Hsing-I five element and Bagua Palms, I really am starting to enjoy elbow work. I just wish I had more time to devote to the full development of their potential.
~ If you really find one technique that you like more than others. I would reccomend that you make that part of your special regime. That is; everysingle day, no matter what else you work on or do, spend an extra half hour to hour doing several hundred repetitions of that technique alone. After a few months, find a willing partner who has a simular training interest and start to work it with them to develop timing and placement skills. You won't be disappointed with the results.
~ I was working out once with an instructor from China and he stated that one of his students came to "class" every day and only did two techniques. He knew only one 'form.' He did about 1500 repetitions of those two techniques every single day for about six years. None of his other students could beat him even though they knew many more techniques and forms than him.
~ Actually, after hearing that I started to simplify my training considerably.
~ Keep up your training and don't let nobody tell you that it is stupid to have a favorite technique.

Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue

[African Tiger]

Hammer Fist is the shizmit, boys.

Everybody expects the jab, the hook, the cross, even the vertical fist or "JKD's Straight Blast," but when you can deliver "death from above", or step into someone else's lame hook punch and execute a vertical Hammerfist right across the temple - to paraphrase Bad Boys, "Wha-cha gonna do?"

Kids, there's very little I can't do with a Hammer Fist. From breaking a jaw to attacking soft tissue. The only problem I see IMHO is typical of any closed fist attack: all power and little speed.

It works, but you'd better not miss! :(

[Lowlynobody]

With practice you can get the power with hammerfists right and the strikes become a short twitch. Using focus mitts will help. Its all in the torque of the forearm/wrist.

Add iron palm so that the ball of flesh that you use to strike with becomes hard (and enlarged) when you flex the fist and you have one fast in close weapon that can be used to destroy a bridge, cross it, and strike again in an instant.

Soy Kuil + Bin Choy.


Lowlynobody.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Becca
Could be your body mechanix. Are you leeding off with your elbow up and fist by your ear? If not, try it that way. You're not suposed to windmill your arm, it goes against the natural function of your rotater cuff.


Tell that to a CLF player! ;)

Personally, I love 'em!

[Becca]

Then check to see how many of them have sholder problems. Elbow can come way back if you want, but its much better for the rotator cuff to keep your movement linier(on the same plain of motion). Wind milling your arm requires you to brake that plain and will eventually cause injury.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Becca
Then check to see how many of them have sholder problems. Elbow can come way back if you want, but its much better for the rotator cuff to keep your movement linier(on the same plain of motion). Wind milling your arm requires you to brake that plain and will eventually cause injury.

You know the shoulder joint is a ball and socket, right?

[Becca]

Nope. It's four major muscle heads and several small ones from the traps delts triceps and biceps. They form a pocket that holds the ball into a v formed by the clavicle bones. That's why someone with very well developed sholders brakes their coller bone instead of dislocating their sholder.

[Serpent]

Not quite. The shoulder joint is made of the humerus and scapula. There are actually nine muscles that cross the joint.

The collarbone is part of the shoulder girdle, formed by the calvicle and the humerus. These join at the acromioclavicular joint and the shoulder girdle must move when the shoulder joint does.

The scapula forms the socket and the end of the humrus forms the ball. Combined with the shoulder girdle this whole joint is designed to rotate.

Why do you talk about clavicle bones? There's only one on each side of the body.

[Becca]

Me not so good with nomenclature. Sue me. And it is designed to rotate. But you have to be careful not to move it in a way that strains the muscles, tendons and ligaments that support the bones. Must also watch out for the nerve bundle that runs through there. Lots of pro athletes tear their rotator cuff by braking that afore mentioned plain of motion. I get plenty of strength from my hammer fist strikes without wind milling. :)

[Serpent]

Fair enough. I'm not having a dig at you, I'm always open to other views.

However, you've just qualified your statement anyway, whether youmeant to or not!

You said:



And it is designed to rotate. But you have to be careful not to move it in a way that strains the muscles, tendons and ligaments that support the bones.


Which is quite right, so you have to strengthen the muscles, tendons and ligaments and learn correct mechanics, which includes good training of flexibility throughout the shoulder joint and girdle. Then you have some mean range of motion to work with! ;)

Sure, your style probably doesn't use this methodology and you get good results with your methods. But that doesn't mean that other methods are wrong.

[Becca]

My style does use that method. But I disagree with it on some points. I have something of a talent for healing hands. At least once per week someone at the kwoon asks me to "fix" a sholder or elbow that got hyper extended from improper body mechanics. It gets anoying when it's the same people doing the same thing time and time again. And it is usually due to wild swinging of a fist or wind milling an arm instead of using a proper technique. I have had this same debate with Sifu. He insists they need to strengthen the joint(s) in question and technique. I think they need to work on technique as well as properly training what muscles they have.

[Serpent]

It's all of the above. They need to strengthen muscles, ligaments and tendons, they need to work on flexibility and they need (above all!) to observe correct technique before going wildly in.

It's something your sifu should really keep a close eye on.