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Stumblefist
08-25-2001, 02:58 PM
Hemming - I'm tryin to pick through the news on Russbo.com. like everyobody else.
.......
What is the situation of the Secular disciples Union? One report said the Union's training school is close and being demolished. Is it slated for demolition and renovation. How about all the schools that don't belong to the Shaolin temple at he Shaolin Area? Are they all slated for demolition. Where will all the other schools go? Some of those schools are run by Ex-monks aren't they? Do they have friendly relations with the Temple or do some have friendly relations and some don't?
I just made arrangements for a group to train at one of the chools there so i know they are not all gone yet, but i don't know the future. The word i just got back was every thing seems to be being demolished".
.....................
Can you answer some questions and you can take the opportunity to tell someything about your school. If you have any previous post that has this information, please let me know....

How about your school? Can you tell me what are the training fees for full-time study? Are they open to bargaining or a sliding scale? Are foriegners charged a different rate than chinese?
Do they ask for RMB or American $.
How about yourself? What is your current function. You are not a local person? You are from one of the chinese developed cities?
How many secular schools does the Shaolin Temple run? How many training facilities?
Like one for foreigners, another for chinese? maybe another for kids?
How many schools for monks? How many non-secular real monks are there now.? I am am very out of date . I think in 1987 there were only 12, all being older and only one being 18 years?

"Without water there would be no fish"

Stumblefist
08-26-2001, 06:54 AM
Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:46:43 -0700
Subject: Demolition of Secular Union?
Heming@shaolintemple.zzn.com

Hi Hemming,
Probably you don't check kungfuonline.com very often so i send you
this e-mail to tell you i posted a question under post called
"Hemming - Demolition of Secular Union?"
This is not a political question, just hoping to get some information.
regards
stumblefist

Hemming...Demolition of secular union?
.....................
(The posted text was included in the e-mail).

"Without water there would be no fish"

stubbs
08-28-2001, 08:58 PM
hey stumblefist, what school are you going to, do they have a website?

i was considering training with heming, did he reply to your email?

does anyone know of any contacts (web address, email address, post, tel no etc) of other schools in the shaolin area.

thanks to anyone that replies.

"satisfaction loses,and humility gains"

Shaolindynasty
08-28-2001, 10:12 PM
You can contact Heming at www.shaolin1500.com (http://www.shaolin1500.com) it may take him awhile to respond he said this is the busy time of year at shaolin and I think the festival is coming up

New classes New online Catalog
www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

inpho
08-28-2001, 10:57 PM
I just got done talking to Heming, the secular union is still as it used to be. No changes there. Although I did see elsewhere that there were changes and that they were now practicing in the hills somewhere. *shrug* As I've understood it the Secular Union is within shaolin and very much official so it would be strange of they were forced out.

Amitabha

Stumblefist
08-29-2001, 06:26 AM
Stubbs:
Yes, I have a contact for another school about 500 meters from Shaolin. I can get reasonable prices. They train mostly Shaolin, Tongbei and SanDa. I negotiated with them on behalf of Barry's group. Last message i got from Barry he was quite happy with the arrrangement. Get the full details when he gets back. Take the numbers of the Shaolin Festival thread.
SDynasty:
Thanks,NO response from Heming yet, but i will wait a while as i do suspect they are busy.

Inpho: There were other reports on russsbo. It may be that the secular Union's training hall is slated for RENOVATION , but i don't even know what kind of facilities they have.

"Without water there would be no fish"

Stumblefist
08-29-2001, 07:21 AM
Inpho:
Ok, I really doubt you. You claim you just talked to Heming, and i took another look at russbo and it was the administrator himself who says The union is gone
And HEMING COFIRMS IT!

-----------------------------------
By doc (Admin) (203.93.165.38) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 08:38 pm: Edit


"The Secular Disciple's school is no longer in existance in Shaolin at this time, as I've been told. It will probably rebuild at some future date in Dengfeng, where all the other schools are going. The Shaolin village is slowly being torn down, as per last year's plans, but this time with partial compensation and relocation for the villagers. All seems to be peaceful this time. If you've got plans in the nearby future to train at one of these schools, I suggest that you definitely find out if the school exists before you leave. Training at local schools in nearby Dengfeng is safe, as those schools are "stable" right now, and should be in the future."

Interesting times in Shaolin.

From the Gobi desert,
doc
-------------------------------------------
Interesting times in Shaolin.

From the Gobi desert,
doc
---------------------------------------------
By Heming (211.159.3.216) on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 06:21 am: Edit


Hello all buds,
this is Heming from Shaolin Temple Secular Disciple's Union, you guys must saw me before on the site already,
yes, the village is torning down and all the kungfu students are forced to leave Shaolin...our team has been moved to the temple "Dharma's King" in the Songshan mountain and we are keep training in the deep mountain again, it's a larger and beautiful temple which is the father temple of Shaolin, the first temple of "Dharma's forest" in Songshan.

Heming your friends still in Shaolin Dharma's forest

email: heming@shaolintemple.zzn.com
site: http://shaolin1500.com
----------------------------------------------

"Without water there would be no fish"

xian_witch
08-31-2001, 12:56 AM
the secular disciple's union or whatever it is called... this is different then the 'wushu guan'?
if so, they are both equally an off shoot of the actual temple that the government has ordered monks to teach at?

harmonize the forces of heaven, earth, and hell.

Heming
08-31-2001, 07:53 AM
Hello dear all friends,

We are really doing fine in Shaolin Temple, appreciate you all very very much, all of you are so nice!!!

Yes, under the destruction movement we were moved our kungfu team to the Songshan mountain the Temple of Dharma King, right now our Shaolin Temple Secular Disciple's Union is still there nicely!

One of master's disciple is working in the Beijing government as the body guard of President Jiang, so he helped master and used his power to stopped the destruction...we are really lucky this time and right now Shaolin Temple Secular Disciple's Union is the only one kungfu team will left and survive in Shaolin Temple.

I am not sure what the future of our kungfu team will be, maybe after one year or two years there will be another movement happen again which will be powerful enough to make master and us leave our Shaolin Temple, but I believer Buddha will always bless us and Shaolin Spirits will keep our Kungfu Team together forever!

Thanks everyone again and I wish to hear from you all again soon, my Email is <heming@shaolintemple.zzn.com>

Welcome to get in touch with me again!

Best wishes with many blessings!

Heming, Shaolin Temple

Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
Fax: +1(212)98143
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: heming@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://www.topcities.com/Arts/heming/index.htm
http://shaolintemple.yeah.net

inpho
08-31-2001, 09:33 AM
stumblefist, well clearly I was wrong but here is the subject of the mail from Heming:

"Subject: Welcome to Shaolin next summer! We are still in Shaolin Temple as usual."

Further, it's rather rude of you to imply I wasn't being honest, perhaps stop being so confrontational?

Amitabha

Stumblefist
08-31-2001, 01:17 PM
"I just got done talking to Heming, the secular union is still as it used to be. No changes there. "
I find it rude when someone reports hypothesis as fact. In fact i find it "confrontational". Receiving a form letter is not information. Ain't you got no smarts?

"Ok, I really doubt you."
If you think this is unjustified you might need one of those desensitization courses.

"Without water there would be no fish"

Stumblefist
08-31-2001, 01:33 PM
"One of master's disciple is working in the Beijing government as the body guard of President Jiang, so he helped master and used his power to stopped the destruction...we are really lucky this time and right now Shaolin Temple Secular Disciple's Union is the only one kungfu team will left and survive in Shaolin Temple."

What destruction was stopped? Why was it necessary to have influence? Is the SDU not directly a part of Shaolin or is it just a relationship betwwen your master and the abbot?
Also if you get a change could you answer the other questions? Especailly about cost ot training$$$
thanks in advance.

The other questions are:
"How about your school? Can you tell me what are the training fees for full-time study? Are they open to bargaining or a sliding scale? Are foriegners charged a different rate than chinese?
Do they ask for RMB or American $.
How about yourself? What is your current function. You are not a local person? You are from one of the chinese developed cities?
How many secular schools does the Shaolin Temple run? How many training facilities?
Like one for foreigners, another for chinese? maybe another for kids?
How many schools for monks? How many non-secular real monks are there now.? I am am very out of date . I think in 1987 there were only 12, all being older and only one being 18 years?"

"Without water there would be no fish"

Stumblefist
08-31-2001, 01:49 PM
Heming posted the same message on Russbo.com.
It really wasn't a personal reply the the questions.

"Without water there would be no fish"

Stumblefist
09-01-2001, 11:42 AM
I had your same questions so i asked Doc on russbo. Below is his answer. Hmmm... still don't know what happens at the Wushu Guan. Ad which "government" is the owner is a good question with some consequence i.e. one of the warlords or an arm of Beijing?
Looks like the SDU is really a "private" school with "guanxi" connections. And Tagou? well i will read my bleary eyes...

I still owe you an answer on the other thread. Til then...

---------from doc on russbo.com -----------
Clarification!
It's all in the web site. Seek, and you shall find!

But, since you're probably busy, the wushu guan is owned by the Henan government. The SDU is owned by Shi Heng Jun, a monk of the Shaolin temple. The Shaolin temple, run by abbot Shi Yong Xin, does not officially sanction anybody (it did sanction the Tagou school, but, again, read the web site and the latest in the discussion forum....) The SDU is a school in the valley, as there are many other schools. Or, used to be. They derive their "association" with the temple by the fact that most of the schools have headmasters that are/were Shaolin monks. No other association should be implied, expecially considering the politics of the place these past few years (again, read the web site).

Start in the Shaolin FAQ. Work your way to the Destruction section, in the Fugue section (read that too). Read appropriate parts in the discussion forum. I need to update the Destruction section, soon."

"Without water there would be no fish"

Heming
09-01-2001, 04:03 PM
Greetings dear Stumblefist, Inpho,Shaolindynasty, stubbs and dear BrideWithWhiteHair!

Appreciate for your posts! It doesn't mind if I give a personal message or a general message, I am here to talk to you all openly, okay?

Here are several answers to your questions

Why was it necessary to have influence?
Because in our philosophy there is one rule--"to use violence to stop violence". Here we apply it as "to use influence to stop influence".

Is the SDU not directly a part of Shaolin or is it just a relationship between your master and the abbot?

There is relatinoship between every monks, they are actually all members of the Shaolin family and they are all Buddhist brothers.
SDU is a part of Shaolin for hundreds years since Tang Dynasty.


Can you tell me what are the training fees for full-time study? Are they open to bargaining or a sliding scale?

the tuition fee is fixed.

for disciples there is no tuition fee. for kungfu students they pay USD1500 for one year training in master's team, include tution fee, food and accomodatin and also free internet accession.

for those short visitors (few months) master charge USD 400/month as a training fee and donation to our kungfu team.

Are foriegners charged a different rate than chinese?
Yes, for Chinese kungfu student the tuition is RMB1500-2000/year. Not include food and other expense.

How about yourself? What is your current function. You are not a local person? You are from one of the chinese developed cities?

Me? I am a disciple still studying from master Shi Heng Jun, also a volenteer to help master to cope with the Public contact. I don't have a function in SDU. I am not a local person, my family is in Hong Kong and I came to Shaolin in 1999.

How many secular schools does the Shaolin Temple run?
There were secular schools run by master Shi De Yang, master Yong Di, master Yan Zang, but right now only Master Heng Jun's is left.

How many training facilities?
Like one for foreigners, another for chinese? maybe another for kids?

There are different teams of different kungfu levels, for foreigner students they are training together in a small team of 5 to 7 people, with an English speaking disciple, (sometimes me)

Okay, my time is limited especially these days....talk to you soon again here, wish you all good luck with hard training and less mouth fight,hahaha....

Heming, Shaolin Temple

Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: webmaster@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://shaolin1500.com
http://photos.yahoo.com/mrheming

stubbs
09-02-2001, 01:56 PM
how do you become a deciple?

also, stumblefist, i've sent you a message on your icq thingy, can you check it.

thanks,
stubbs

"satisfaction loses,and humility gains"

Stumblefist
09-03-2001, 06:43 AM
Stubbs, I'm not at my old apt. now so i may have some trouble getting on ICQ I will check it out. Maybe i can find OICQ but e-mail is more certain.

"Without water there would be no fish"

Stumblefist
09-03-2001, 07:33 AM
Thanks Heming.
That's a good effort in answering questions.
Sure! form letter or personal it all adds to communication.
Some of your answers might be interpretative. Also some answers invite more questions like Stubbs's above, or more on who's influence against whos, or more about the discriminataion in price as per race and nationality and so on. But that's enough for me for now.
I would not discourage people from questioning and arguing with an attitude of discovery. I think especially in Martial Arts it is useful for people to learn to discriminate and develop their own opinions rather than to parrot the ideas of others.

"Without water there would be no fish"

spearwarrior
09-08-2001, 07:43 PM
Shoalin schools all around Shaolin will be pulled down within 2 years, this however shocking to people in the know is going to happen.
Along with my training, i did some research and with titbits from many different people assures me this to be true.
Made freinds with a chinese student who told me even up to the Dharma Hotel will be turned into a scenic wonderland, couldnt email from there as i felt like i was being watched.
Got some footage of the buildings all around the temple being pulled down.
The day before we left all the little shops around and even opposite the temple, were subjected to an invasion of goverment officials, army and police before the diggers took over.
A sad sight as all the poeple moved there belongings onto trailers and moved away.
My freinds and i split by accident and they ended up training with the secular disciple union before it was pulled down and was chased into the mountains by the army.
They then moved to Fang Wang Temple near to Donfeng, they finished there training there.
All shoalin schools are to move to in and around Donfeng, along with the all the businesses in the area.
This was confirmed near to the end of my trip by one of the shop owners whom i also made freinds with.
Yes the training was very good and would go again, they work very hard, and while we were there trained 7-8hrs a day, every day ( except when raining !!! )
Thanks to Stumblefist for all your help.
I think this is the true meaning of forum, not just to sit in front of your keyboards.
Help from people who have been there and in return maybe one day to help them.
Peace
P.S.
BARRY: old Irish name, translated into English as Spearwarrior.

Royal Dragon
09-09-2001, 01:24 AM
I'm not familliar with Shaolin area geography, but I want to know, are they tearing down Tagou too? I thought that school was "Real" close to the temple.

Royal Dragon

"Chi is Chinese for Spinach"


Check out the Royal Dragon Web site

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com

spearwarrior
09-09-2001, 10:22 AM
All schools, the nearer the temple the earlier the destruction !!
Tagou ? dont know the name but the area immediatly around the temple is like a building site.
Not good with distances but, i think 500m or more has gone already, long lines of lorries and perhaps 3 or more BIG diggers to knock things down.
There is no exception with the schools, the one i trained in is going also and that one was quite a way.The only buildings i saw still standing was the temple opposite and one or two buildings at the sword factory and even the sword factory started moving stuff.

spearwarrior
09-09-2001, 10:25 AM
Shoalin schools all around Shaolin Henan province will be pulled down within 2 years, this however shocking to people in the know is going to happen.
Along with my training, i did some research and with titbits from many different people assures me this to be true.
Made freinds with a chinese student who told me even up to the Dharma Hotel will be turned into a scenic wonderland, couldnt email from there as i felt like i was being watched.
Got some footage of the buildings all around the temple being pulled down.
The day before we left all the little shops around and even opposite the temple, were subjected to an invasion of goverment officials, army and police before the diggers took over.
A sad sight as all the poeple moved there belongings onto trailers and moved away.
My freinds and i split by accident and they ended up training with the secular disciple union before it was pulled down and was chased into the mountains by the army.
They then moved to Fang Wang Temple near to Donfeng, they finished there training there.
All shoalin schools are to move to in and around Donfeng, along with the all the businesses in the area.
This was confirmed near to the end of my trip by one of the shop owners whom i also made freinds with.
Yes the training was very good and would go again, they work very hard, and while we were there trained 7-8hrs a day, every day ( except when raining !!! )
Thanks to Stumblefist for all your help.
I think this is the true meaning of forum, not just to sit in front of your keyboards.
Help from people who have been there and in return maybe one day to help them.
Peace
P.S.
BARRY: old Irish name, translated into English as Spearwarrior. :( :eek:

Heming
09-10-2001, 07:45 AM
Greetings SpearWarrior,
This is Heming from the Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple Secular Disciple's Union still exist and it is the only training place in Shaolin now, the FaWang Temple in your message actually means "Dharma King Temple" in English, which has 2000 years history in Songshan mountain, did you been there Barry?

Thanks very much for your message, wish you have a wonderful kungfu training with your masters.

Heming, yours kungfu friend in Shaolin Temple

Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: webmaster@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://shaolin1500.com
http://photos.yahoo.com/mrheming

Heming
09-10-2001, 07:49 AM
Oh , by the way I think I know the shop owner you mentioned, he is a very nice man who is running the tiny shop with his wife there, Mr. Ma Xiao Ming (or "Mashiming" as others pronounce it), right? I guess you must drink coffee and eat instant noodles alot there everyday, huh?

Heming again

Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: webmaster@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://shaolin1500.com
http://photos.yahoo.com/mrheming

GeneChing
05-08-2002, 09:32 AM
So many people miss how spectacular that mountain is.

I was at Shaolin last Sept. (2001) for the festival and they were in phase 2 of the relocation. Chen Tongshan's school (the first wushuguan, then the first private school, and the school of movie ingenue Chen Xiaolong) was being evacuated right in the middle of the festival! Many other schools had been shut down in the valley, but most of them had already relocated to Dengfeng. Now that's where all the schools are. Taguo was still standing, but it's rumored that they've already purchased a large lot of property in Dengfeng and that they will come down in phase 3. The valley is getting noticibly quieter. If all the schools move to Dengfeng, it'll be very hard to keep track of anymore - there are so many there now and Dengfeng is pretty spread out. Things were much easier when it was all in the valley.

sean_stonehart
05-08-2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Stumblefist
...snipped...
Anyone here climbed SongShan or environs?

I went up SongShan (the stairs anyway) to Da Mo's cave in June last year. Very nice view from up there of the valley. I gotta ask a question though... on the mountain across the valley from Songshan, it looked like there were ski lift trams or something going up it. Was it high tension wiring from the resevoir outside the valley?? Just curious & never got around to asking.

sean_stonehart
05-08-2002, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Stumblefist
Sean: How did you get to the stairs? Did you access after entry through the Stone Archway (triple archway where there is a 40 yuan entrance fee)? Were there other trails up?
According to the map i got, the cable car goes to Er Zhu temple on top of Bo Yu Mountain. whiich is to the SW of the temple, Dharma cave being the North of the temple and Songshan being accross the road and to the East. But maybe Songshan also has a Cableway.
I suspect the only access to Bo Yu Shan and Dharma cave ...that whole environs ... is throught the triple archway, though therre may be some backdoors...

But in either case neither Dharma cave nor Bo Yu Shan is Song Shan which is in the direction out from the archway towards and beyond the bus station and across the road. Dharma cave is up behind Shaolin Temple. Songshan is elevation 1440 and across the road from Bo Yu Shan. I was told it was accessible from Dengfeng. Thing is, i wonder if all these places are publicly accessible. I'd like to spend some time hiking and discovering the trails there. I climbed Taishan last week ...twice!!! I love mountains.
....................


Stumble... I was still pretty much in a jet lagged haze when I was there so I'm not sure of my cardinal directions, but from the temple & walked down towards the Pagoda Forest, hung a right on a pretty well worn path, went past a smaller temple on the way to the stairs that went up to Da Mo's cave. There were guys at the foot of the path that charged 5 yuan a head to drive you up to the foot of the starway on these little 3 wheel bikes. I took one on the way back down.

On a side note, I did intially take a wrong turn & went up a path directly next to the temple & ended up going to the peak directly behind the temple to the point of not being able to continue because the path ran out. There was a short climb to the top of that peak, but as tired as I was I didn't want to do anything remotely hazardous.:D

GeneChing
05-09-2002, 10:10 AM
Things have changed a lot. I doubt there were more than a few dozen schools still occupied in Shaolin Valley, if even that as of last Sept. They've all moved to Dengfeng. There's some ungodly amount in Dengfeng now.
As for the Abbot's sphere of control, that's a good question. Many people are quick to blame the abbot for all this since he is so prominent, but actually most of the backing is coming from Dengfeng. Think about it - who stands to gain the most here? If all the industry moves down from the valley into Dengfeng, it's much more controllable. And if you read carefully into the announcements, they all have offical stamps from Dengfeng gov't officials. Nobody wants to kill the golden goose here. They just want they eggs to be laid where they can be collected with ease.
I'm not sure which drop off you mean - I thought most Zhengzhou buses dropped off in front of Taguo village. I've never taken that bus. I've almost always had somebody to pick me up.

The stone stairway to the cave is cool, but there's a better back trail to go up. Take a left at the triple arch, cross the field and climb the ridge. Then take the stairs down.

There are 2 cableways now. One is the old ski lift opposite Tamo's cave that takes you to the 2nd Patriarchs' temple. The second one is a new deluxe one that takes you up Songshan, but it's an expensive ride.

Funny, you should mention Taishan. Our next issue focuses on Shandong and I did a little travel piece about when I climbed Taishan in 91. I wish I could climb it again. You're so fortunate. Climbing chinese mountains is where it's at!

And as for Songshan, Tamo's cave ain't the half of it. You got to try the back trail to the suspension bridge. Go to the end of the valley and pick up the trail head. The cliff trail is intense!

sean_stonehart
05-09-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Stumblefist
Sean, thanks for the additional information.
Now, according to my maps if you are at Damo's Cave facing Shaolin the road is down to your left and up again from that is Junli Peak and down to your right a bit to the pagoda forest tombs and up again is another mountain (or another peak of Songshan) where there is the Erzu Templeand a cable going to it.

Stumble... that was the view I was talking about. Thanks!!

Looks like the next time I'm there I have to stay longer & walk more. Where can I get the maps you're talking about? Are they available here in the states or are the local to the Dengfeng area only?

I wanted to get to the Dragon Pools but the map I had was drawn on a napkin from the wushu guan cafeteria by a guy I was with to get me to Da Mo's cave only. Dadgummed tour groups...

GeneChing
05-13-2002, 10:09 AM
They're really hard to find. It's better to have someone take you. They are in a small ravine that is on the south side of Shaolin valley, where a guy used to ride across a cable on a bicycle every day as some kind of tourist stunt, or at least so I'm told. It's a steep climb to get down to them too. To be honest, I'm not sure I could find them again now that the village on the south side is gone and along with it, my landmarks.

sean_stonehart
05-13-2002, 10:56 AM
Ah... thanks for the heads up Gene. I'll keep that in mind. :)

GeneChing
05-14-2002, 10:11 AM
...that's the best hike on songshan. You'll find a pic of a big suspension bridge on your ticket if you buy one. POint and ask and they direct you. I found it by accident. I was looking for the dragon pools and missed big time. But it was one of the most fortuituous accidents ever.

yearofdragon76
05-27-2002, 06:24 PM
sean i know of the way you took but when i was there (1997)you could hardly call them stairs..lol

yearofdragon76
08-24-2002, 11:54 AM
when i walked up the cliif I took a rout through the pagoda forrest and then through a small village like section on the base of the mount...it was summer and extremely hot and as you went up there was of course peddlers selling water and drinks...then you walked to a point wherer there was supposedly stairs at one point but were crumbling and then it was basically scaling the mountain..it was funbut very excerting...we saw the cave then went to the statue and looked at the view from there...does the statue still stand?..I saw and new of the cable but the way I went was free...just a little hazardous long and physical..but fun.
I din't have the map we just walked dirt paths and ask the locals wich way to go till we started going up.

Vapour
03-29-2003, 08:01 AM
http://www.russbo.com/start.shtml

"Just this week, Henan government officials drove through the streets of Shaolin village (outside of the Shaolin gate, near the Tagou school), with loudspeakers and informed the people and the shopowners that they had to leave by the next day.

The village has been emptied, and it is slated for destruction soon.

This is the final remnant of what used to be referred as the "Shaolin village". It is only a step in the long process of China's desire to get the Shaolin Temple onto the UNESCO World Heritage Site list.

It may also be the final step in the process of fulfilling the Henan government's desire (and others), to make the Shaolin Temple Wushu Guan, the sole destination for foreigners who are wishing to train in Shaolin gong fu. All the Shaolin village schools have relocated either to Zengzhou or Dengfeng.

As I've been told, expect a "new Shaolin" by August, 2003. It's probably going to be all cleaned out by then.

More details as they become available."

mantis108
03-29-2003, 12:54 PM
Frankly, I am confused. Is this fulfillment of Shaolin destiny or is it plain fabrication of Shaolin destiny? In another thousand years, people would have to wonder without responsible and reliable documentation. When would the Chinese government ever learn?
*SIGH*

Oh well... Wushu Disneyland is the inevitable reality.

Mantis108

prana
03-29-2003, 03:05 PM
sh1t, I hope this governments crazy ideas doesnt anihilate the long awaited freedom of the Tibetan government in exile.

Before the occpation in 1940, the young Karmapa wrote a revelation of his rebirth, and saw Tibetans eventually moving to the north east of India. I guess they are there to stay ?

Hope China doesnt destroy the heritage of the Shaolin temple again, that would be 3 times the stupidity. The Tibetan people speak highly of the Shaolin temple and the Shaolin monks speaks highly of the Tibetan sutras. May they be free to practise their ways.

ddh
03-30-2003, 04:09 AM
is continuing in it's grand tradition of being afraid of real martial arts development that it can't control. This is not new in China. Why do you think people have cultivated this art in families, villages and on a personal level. The art itself may continue to move into the pretty styling mode that has become the Olympic model and perhaps deeper development in the art will be put under more strict control. But I think you can count on individuals teaching individuals to continue. It's a time honored tradition in China to be wary of the government. :)

WushuSpear
03-30-2003, 03:23 PM
Wow

Am I the only person who thinks this might be a good thing in the long term for the Temple? Removing the last remaining private schools and shops is just a continuation of a process that was started by the abbott some time ago.

I think it's been well documented his desire for the temple to return to it's buddist roots and reduce the influence of the private martials circles in things shaolin. The schools have mostly relocated to Dengfeng which isin't far using the bus.

The abbott has been recorded stating he wants the shaolin arts to focus more on their traditional aspects which has not always been the case. In the future, the wushu Guan looks like it will be the preferred site of foreign students training and the temple will have more control of what's being taught. Hopefully this will put an end to some southern contemporary forms being passed off as traditional shaolin. What remains to be seen is exactly how much influence and control he abbot has over the martial monks and how much they'll support him.

On the human rights issue I feel for the people displaced in this final relocation yet I think everyone knew it was coming. China has a long way to go in it's journey to human rights for everyone yet I think we in the outside should realise that this is the way it has always been done there. Hopefully things will get better in the near future.

I think we should wait and see what the abbot has in his grand plan for shaolin and who knows how history will remember him?

WushuSpear

Kinjit
03-30-2003, 03:30 PM
Stumblefist, you don't really like countries outside the USA a whole lot do you?

carly
03-30-2003, 05:25 PM
doesn't sound too spiritual and full of Buddha-like love to me, but rather very political and worldly.

prana
03-30-2003, 06:18 PM
welcome to the root of all problems :)

Most religions are good, it's usually the followers....

whats the old saying " never trust someone in a suit ? "

GeneChing
03-31-2003, 10:55 AM
... you haven't really been paying attention. We've been reporting on the relocation of Shaolin village since it's onset. This is phase 3 - the final phase - right on schedule.

I leave for Shaolin tomorrow. I'll let you all know more when I return.

Guile
03-31-2003, 12:46 PM
Have a safe trip Gene!

GeneChing
03-31-2003, 12:56 PM
With the war and SARS, it'll is certainly the most initmidating one I've undertaken. :( But Shaolin has invited me, so I can't really refuse. :cool:

Guile
03-31-2003, 11:46 PM
Definitly , how can you turn down a personal invitation ;)

GeneChing
02-17-2016, 10:12 AM
This is somewhat off topic, but this thread came up when I searched 'relocation'.

I could have sworn we had a thread on the Three Gorges Dam relocation, but this will do. In a way, it's more relevant, even it's off topic. It gives Chinese relocations more perspective and we can reflect on what happened in Shaolin Village so many years ago now.


China relocates humans in search of aliens: More than 9,000 rural residents ordered to move for the world's largest radio telescope (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3450706/China-relocates-humans-search-aliens-9-000-rural-residents-ordered-world-s-largest-radio-telescope.html)

9,110 people in south-west China have been asked to relocate to ensure a sound electromagnetic wave environment
Residents within three miles have been ordered to relocate and each of them is offered £1,288 compensation
The radio telescope, in Guizhou Province, is the largest of its kind in the world and costs £124 million to construct

By SOPHIE WILLIAMS FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 06:43 EST, 17 February 2016 | UPDATED: 09:13 EST, 17 February 2016

Thousands of villagers in China have been ordered by the country to assist in its ambitious alien-hunting project - by moving their homes for the world's largest radio telescope.

Around 9,110 people from the Pingtang County, Guizhou Province, have been asked to relocate by the authorities in order to provide a better environment for the radio waves, the People's Daily Online reports.

The 'Five-hundred-meter Aperture Spherical Telescope' or 'FAST', which cost a whopping £124 million to build, is due to start operation this year after a five-year construction process.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/17/10/314F8E5E00000578-3450706-image-a-1_1455704581404.jpg
The search for extra terrestrial life: Ongoing construction of the world's largest radio telescope in Guizhou province, southwest China

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/17/10/314F8E0F00000578-3450706-image-a-4_1455704591417.jpg
Big piece of machinery: The Five-hundred-metre Aperture Spherical Radio Telescope is the size of 30 football pitches

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/17/10/314F8DEE00000578-3450706-image-a-5_1455704622504.jpg
9,100 relocated: Villagers within 5 kilometres have been asked to make way for telescope which will be used for capturing radio signals

The telescope is situated in a huge karst valley in Pingtang County, a rural area of Guizhou province, where a lot of residents are poor.

Residents within three miles of the site will be reportedly given a 12,000 Yuan (£1,288) subsidy to relocate, with some getting extra financial support for housing.

The new telescope will overtake the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico to become the world's largest radio telescope. It has a diameter of 1,640 feet and occupies an area as large as 30 football pitches.

It took the Chinese scientists as long as 17 years to find a hollow in the country large enough to accommodate the dish.

Li Di, a chief scientist from the National Astronomical Observatories affiliated with the Chinese Academy of Sciences told China Daily: 'FAST is so large that if you fill it with wine, every one of the world's seven billion people could get a share of about five bottles'.

Li Yuecheng, secretary-general of the CPPCC Guizhou Provincial Committee says that the relocations will 'create a sound electromagnetic wave environment'.

The new telescope is set to be involved in the search for extra terrestrial life. With its sensitive telescope, it can detect weaker radio signals.

It is also due to be used to study the Milky Way in more detail and look for the first shining stars.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/17/11/314F5CA400000578-3450706-image-a-17_1455708650615.jpg
'FAST' has a diameter of 1,640 feet and is located in the Dawodang depression, a huge karst valley in Pingtang County, Guizhou Province

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/17/10/314F8DF200000578-3450706-image-a-8_1455704627011.jpg
Largest in the world: When it is completed in September this year, it will over take Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico for size

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/17/10/314F8E4200000578-3450706-image-m-11_1455704700790.jpg
Diameter of 1,640 feet: It took scientists 17 years to find a hollow area in the country large enough to accommodate the dish

'FAST' marks the biggest investment in astronomy by China as it continues to invest in its own space programme.

The country hopes to have its own space station by around 2020 and in the future conduct a manned mission to the moon.

This isn't the first time that China has conducted mass relocations.

Between 1995 and 2005, 1.4 million people were relocated in south-west China to make way for the Three Gorges Dam.

While an unknown number of people were asked to move to make way for the Olympic sites in Beijing.


WE COULD FIND ALIEN LIFE IN THE NEXT 10 TO 20 YEARS, SAYS NASA
There at least 200 billion Earth-like planets in our galaxy – and now NASA officials claim we could be on the verge of finding life on one.

During a talk in Washington last year, the space agency announced that humanity is likely to encounter extra-terrestrials within a decade.

'We are going to have strong indications of life beyond Earth in the next decade and definitive evidence in the next 10 to 20 years,' Ellen Stofan, chief scientist for NASA.

'We know where to look, we know how to look, and in most cases we have the technology.'

The search for extraterrestrial life is a worldwide project.

Last year, a new $100m project by Breakthough Initiative was launched using two of the world's biggest telescopes to scour through one million of the closest stars to Earth for signals sent out by intelligent life.

The project will cover 10 times more sky and be 50 times more sensitive than previous searches.

The latest data collected by NASA and other space agencies suggests there could be as many as 40 billion potentially habitable planets in our galaxy.

Experts say that if a civilisation was broadcasting signals with the power of common aircraft radar from one of the 1,000 nearest stars to Earth, the telescopes used in the project could detect them.

The closest star to Earth – Proxima Centauri – is 24 trillion miles away and it takes light from it 4.2 years to reach our planet.

Breakthough Listen's optical search could also detect a 100 watt laser from some of the nearest stars.

GeneChing
08-30-2019, 08:33 AM
I didn't think I'd be ttt-ing this thread with something directly on topic, but word is that Wangzhiguo, the small settlement across the river from Shaolin Temple is being demolished. This is where many foreigners stayed to train after Shaolin Village was dismantled and the private schools were relocated to Dengfeng. I never stayed there, only visited, so bear with me because this news is secondhand from some Shaolin friends. I'm told there were three hotels there but two are gone and only one (the one on the left?) still stands. Everything else has been bulldozed.

For reference, for anyone who doesn't remember the initial destruction, relocation and reconstruction initially discussed in this thread, we covered it extensively in Kung Fu Tai Chi (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html). Here are some relevant articles:

DEC 2000 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=130)
Karmic Wheel Turns at Shaolin Temple: A Controversy Erupts at Songshan
by Martha Burr and Gene Ching

NOV+DEC 2003 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/index.php?p=magazine&article=397)
Cover Story:
The World Heritage of Shaolin: Interview with Venerable Shi Yongxin, Abbot of Shaolin Temple (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=398)
By Gene Ching

United Nations, Divided Shaolin: Clearing Shaolin Valley and the Relocation of Shaolin Village
By Gene Ching

I also discussed the relocation in my Shaolin Trips blog: Episode 2 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/index.php?p=article&article=468).

Also relevant was is this thread: The destruction of Shaolin TEMPLE (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?31002-The-destruction-of-Shaolin-TEMPLE).

What a journey it has been...

If anyone hears any more about Wangzhiguo, please share here.

amitoufo

GeneChing
09-03-2019, 11:53 AM
I asked my primary Shaolin contact about the destruction of Wangzhiguo.

His reply "Very very true!"

:(