Defense against Mua Thai Round House

[marcelino31]

Mua Thai Round House kicks are very powerful. How can you deal with them? Do you block with your arms, legs, step away, in ?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by marcelino31
Mua Thai Round House kicks are very powerful. How can you deal with them? Do you block with your arms, legs, step away, in ?

Why get distract with the Roung house kick? don't stand there to take kicks.
guard yourself and walk close into his body and attack his center but watched out for his elbow and knees while walk in.

If WCK cannot pennatrating the three gates, from wrist to shoulder.. and destroy the Zee Moo. but only fight in the range of fore arm. then, WCK cannot defeat Mua Thai because there is not enought of degree of freedom in just the range of fore arm...

But WCK can pennatrating the three gates with one shot.
so fight him in the close range and disorve his elbow...
He does his and you does yours.
IMHO

[marcelino31]

I have seen some people advocate using techniques like double gan sao or quan sao to deal with mid to high level round house and for lower round house to just kick at the opponent round leg in the knee area. Also some people, like you, mentioned when they see the round house kick coming they just step in maybe using po pai jeung etc. all this with proper timing of course..

True you should never be there waiting for it to happen but Round house kick is very powerful and Im looking for wing chun responses or counters to this movement.

[marcelino31]

Interesting concept Grinding Hands! Ok assuming you have but no choice how would you best meet the round house would you apply a technique while moving into it or stepping away from it to absorb it

Also about the torque curve. The further out you block a kick from its axis of rotation the more power you have to deal with. So the closer your block is to the turning axis point the less power for you. Similarly Stopping a kick before it begins its journey means less power to deal with but once a kick is in motion and accelerates to its power point you have most power to deal with at impact. So what are the rules and strategies for swallowing, or better yet using the power of the kick and returning it back to your opponent.

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by marcelino31
I have seen some people advocate using techniques like double gan sao or quan sao to deal with mid to high level round house and for lower round house to just kick at the opponent round leg in the knee area.

Gan sao or quan sao against a roundhouse kick? You'll only do it once. Afterward, you'll be lucky to get use of your arms back.

[marcelino31]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog


Gan sao or quan sao against a roundhouse kick? You'll only do it once. Afterward, you'll be lucky to get use of your arms back.

You are correct on this Alpha Dog. There is a story of some of Yip Mans' students competing in fights against MU thai And those that did the gan's got their arms broken!

So what are some good ways for dealing with both low and high round kicks?

[Alpha Dog]

I have never been in such a situation and hope to avoid it. But I would probably try to get inside and take the thigh's weight against my shoulders -- wouldn't be as much impact.

Again, I have never tried this -- anyone?

[marcelino31]

The other thing I have noticed is that the most common round house and also the most powerful one comes from the back leg.
So as you mentioned perhaps there is some way you can position or align yourself in relation to your opponent to nullify him from round kicking you. Also the idea of catching the kick at your shoulder sounds interesting. But if a kick is coming towards your head travelling in an arc from the bottom upwards then you will need to have very good timing to intercept the kick at your shoulder before it reaches your head.

[marcelino31]

How do you feel about intercepting/jamming a round house kick by just simply kicking the round house kick above the knee area with say a front kick and doing this before the kick has reached its full extension?

[OdderMensch]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog


Gan sao or quan sao against a roundhouse kick? You'll only do it once. Afterward, you'll be lucky to get use of your arms back.

Hmm this is something i train to do. Some things about it to bear in mind are



Never try and meet the shin. You either need to be close enough to get the thigh or you need to have gotten the hell out of there.

don't intercept into the direct angle of force, but intercept into he body of the kicker, think of doing shueng gahn on the dummy.

you need to have a stable, but alive base when doing this, if the kick is too strong you may have to adjust your feet in order to disolve the power of the kick.

Finally, the kick gains power thru the range of motion to a point of maximum power, then loses power rapidly, don't try to meet it at its maximum power, either inercept the thigh before it hits the top of the curve, or move away and stop it after it has reached its apex.


One more thing is that this is only used for raher high roundhouse kicks, anything aimed below the waist gets a leg response, either bong gerk, tan gerk or a stop kick to the supporting leg/hip.

[flaco]

against a thai guy, ite easier to keep your weight 80/20, most on the rear leg, use your rear leg to spring forward with a front kick to his center, thais also use this(foot jab). it will beat him to the punch, and you keep going forward after you hit him.

[Phil Redmond]

Gan sao or quan sao against a roundhouse kick? You'll only do it once. Afterward, you'll be lucky to get use of your arms back.
A kwan sau CAN be effectively used agianist Muay Thai kick. I train with Muay Thai guys at my school. Of course you don't just stand there and absorb the blow. You must use footwork. A proper kwan sau will spread the impact of a round kick. I wouldn't use a "double" gan against at round kick though.
Phil

[Alpha Dog]

I stand corrected then Phil.

If I am ever down your way I'd like to come by and see that.

[fa_jing]

I tested this out against a friend with muy thai experience, he is extremely muscular and fast martial artist. He gave me a kick at about 40% of full power, I just stood there and put my arms in quan sao position. I was amazed that it really felt like nothing, that the force was transferred through my arms. He had done the same kick to some other's shoulders and knocked the wind out of them. I realize that in application, you want to be cutting them off before they reach full power, or else moving away from the path of the kick. I was just testing it out. I was happy with how it works. However, this only works against middle-height kicks since the kick cuts downward. It could break your gan sao arm if you try that. I am interested, however if anyone's tried a double tan sao against a high hard round kick? I would think that would be pretty effective. Most of the time sparring, however, if someone caught me with a high round kick it would be because they had me expecting a middle-height kick and managed to get the kick over my guard.

[straight blast]

I don't see why a Kwan Sao can't work, or even better a tseung bong with kick to the rear knee. My instructor throws that one all the time! Have you seen the way we block roundkicks to the head in MT? Straight across the forearms with a small pivot of the waist into the angle of the kick.

IMO Kwan sao is a better and stronger structure than that. Some of the guys I do WC with are currently studying MT or are ex MT'ers (like me) so we are always trying to kick the sh!t out of each other in a friendly manner. If it works against a guy who is 6'5 and 115kg I think it's fairly safe to say it works on anyone :) .

But it is best to take out the supporting leg as soon as possible. Next best is kicking the attacking leg as soon as possible. Then stepping inside the range of the kick, then blocking, etc.

I know what works for me;) , whatever works for you :)

[Phil Redmond]

Fa-jing,
the kwan sau we use works against high roundhouse kicks. Here is a picture.
TWC Kwan Sau (http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/images/kwansao_s.jpg)

For a mid level round kick we can use a supported gan sau.
Remember the TWC gan sau uses the fleshy part of the arm and not the bone. Here's a picture. The picture is very basic and doesn't show the footwork needed.

TWC mid level block (http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/images/gansao_s.jpg)
Phil

[yuanfen]

Phil- I saw the pics- dont know your footwork.
Be careful---- powerful kicks can break hands-
if anything- including timing is off.

[Phenix]

Hi Phil,

IMHO, I can be wrong totally.


the high picture shows trouble with shoulder at impact
and an opening on the rib for swing /"clamping" knee or low to high round house target to the rib.

The mid picture doesn't look like capable to slice in or sustain a round horse kick and the neck area is open for slide/close in elbow strike because both hands are too low from the head....

Again I can be dead wrong and I might not know nothing.

Based on my experience with them
Be real carefull.... the dynamic chain effect momentum...

[mun hung]

IMHO - there are many defenses for a roundhouse kick - all depends on your range, reaction speed, the kicker, and what result you are trying to achieve.

Stepping in and kicking the standing leg or attacking the center is an obvious solution if you have the opportunity. But that's "only" if you have the opportunity. I have seen guys fake the kick and throw punches instead and nail the guy who's rushing in - so it doesn't always work - unless the guy you're sparring/fighting is really stupid or slow as hell.

I find that a double gong sau (upper and lower) can work to quickly cover a large area, but is weaker structurally than that of a kwan sau which can also cover the same area from waist to head. A good kwun sau and bong gerk can effectively cover the entire area from top to bottom and can be the round kickers worst nightmare. Of course there is some timing involved, but frequent practice with good kickers will solve that. From experience - I know it works very well against some of the heaviest round kicks. Doing it wrong = broken arms.

Just my two cents.

[Miles Teg]

Ill just give my 2 cents as an X Karate guy.
In karate they generally kick and then bring the foot back before putting it down. There are disadvantages and advantages to this.
Advantage: the leg is hard to catch
Disadvantage: its not as powerful as a muay thai kick

So the disadvantage in the muay thai kick is that they drop there leg straight after, which makes it very easy to catch. They dont care about it being caught because its against the rules of the ring to catch the leg. Once you have caught a leg, well..........I think we all know what to do. So in a reaslistic setting they arent going to be able to pull there kick off many times.


Coming in close and all that it ideal of course, but even if you somehow get caught in that range Ive found that nicely angled tan sau with a gan sau still works ok if you position it so the leg hits the tan so that it slides down the tan arm and into the wedge between the tan and gan. At this point you pull your gan up to something that looks like a tan and you have caught their leg. Of course if you are at that range its just as easy to pull out of range (and safer of course).

[yenhoi]

Thai counter for a round kick is a round kick.

Next is a push kick to the supporting leg, kicking leg, hip, or higher if need be.

Knees.

Then I would worry about moving out of the way or deflecting/blocking if all else fails.

Good resource for thai: www.defend.net - Lots of discussion concerning Master Charn.

There are also many catches/traps for thai kicks.

:eek:

[Phil Redmond]

At the very bottom of this page you can see an example of a TWC front kick block. It is similar to the mid level round kick block.
Ther is also an example of a roundhouse kick block mis labeled to say Kan sao. It should read Kwan sau. I'll get that changed.
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp

At the bottom of this page you can see some of the TWC footwork.
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/form.asp


If the mid level round kick came to my right side, (whether I am in a L/R side neutral or L/R front stance) I will step into right T stance. My left foot empties my left side by forming horizontal line to the vertical line my front foot forms. Sort of like an upside down T. My feet should be far enough apart to maintain a stable base. Not too close and not too far apart. My left hand will parry the kick away from my body. My right hand simultaneously contacts the leg with a gam sau. Remembe the step empties the left side of my body away from the incoming kick. The gan/gam combination allows me to push the kick downwards extending the center of gravity of the kicker down and away from his body. Some kickers can throw really fast high/low multiple kick combos. By forcing their center of gravity forward/downward it become diffult for them to throw multiple kick combinations. Next, my T step allow me to place the weight on my rear, (left) leg. I can then quickly kick to the groin or leg of the kicker. After training repeatedly in this you can time it just right. A similar principle is used against a high round kick. In this instance the tan in the kwan covering the head immediatly juts downward enough to pull the center of gravity of the kicker away from the body. Another way is to change both arms into a double lop sau pulling the kicking leg down while kicking to the groin.
Phil

[Edmund]

Miles Teg wrote:

So the disadvantage in the muay thai kick is that they drop there leg straight after, which makes it very easy to catch. They dont care about it being caught because its against the rules of the ring to catch the leg.

I agree MT kick is easier to catch.
However that is not against the rules in MT.

They do have a few restrictions on what is allowed AFTER the leg is caught but catching the leg is allowed.

[marcelino31]

Is it good to stop a round house kick by intercepting at the knee area of the round kick with a front kick; reason being that knee does not have as much lateral movement as the foot?

[AztecaPreist]

In my experience dealing with kickers and applying what I have been taught in W/C. I understand the reasoning as to why you use legs for leg attacks and hands for hand attacks. First, why use a small bone (such as the arm bone) to try and protect yourself from an incoming leg wich is much more stronger and has more mass wich is gaining strength as it is coming at you faster in a split second? Secondly, why waste all of that precious time waiting for the foot to get to the range where your kwan sao will be? why not go to the root of the kick? it is the most slowest part of the kick and it will always be there when you strike it( the hip) dealing with more experienced kickers and trying to focus on the striking part of a kick is like trying to catch a boxers jab with your hand, (DANGEROUS). The hip is where the kick is developed and dependent on. If you strike the hip you will stop the kick and always be sure to have a faun sao. After seeing what I have written do not take this in the sense as me telling the Kung Fu world what they should all do. This is just what I have been taught and what works for me. If what you are doing works for you then by all means keep on going with it. I am just adding some flavor to this thread.

[marcelino31]

Hello AztecaPreist,

I agree with you on that ...hands against hands legs against legs...what kind of kick do you use to intercept at the hip - a front kick?

[AztecaPreist]

with the front kick you are talking about a whole new body alignment attacking you. with the round house the leg has to swing around like a hooking punch. with a front kick the centerline is occupied so going for the hip will create force against force where the greater mass will win. For me I would first try to recognize the attack by body structure. for the front kick to be effective the knee first has to come up. with advanced martial artist this is where they like to trick their opponents. by bringing almost all kicks with the knee raising up from center as not to give away what kick they are going to use. Wich staying calm and not freezing play a big part on reaction time. For me where I am lined up to my attacker would dictate what strike I would use against the front kick. I could use a wong erk or a pak gerk. it all depends on body alignment and range. All I know is my biggest fear is trying to first recognize what is coming at me and being able to react to it as efficiently as I can. :D

[TwoManSaw]

hello all.

we use quan sao, as a position against roundhouse kicks and
with practice it is quite effective. if its a proper mt roundhouse
where the kick has very penetrating affect it is very wise to kick
out the supporting leg as you enter toward the body mass of
your attacker.

my sifu C.Douglas, has many good stories of Grandmaster Cheung, using kwansao and also double pak sao against round kick attacksfrom proficient kickers. my sifu says Grandmaster Cheung would often grab hold of the attacking limb after using either kwan or double pak and would pull the leg down onto his rising knee adding a further element of injury to the attacker. My sifu says that this was an awesome thing to see.

sifu Ian Protheroe, has some great methods for dealing with
round kicks on his Video that i purchased recently, from both TWC parallel and cross stances, his concepts are explained well and easily understood.

bye for now

[Shuul Vis]

If i am standing with my right leg forward and he attacks with a right leg roundhouse then i do a stomping right front kick aimed just above the knee of his KICKING leg. If he kicks with his left foot and i have my right foot forward, then i do a side kick to the same target on the kicking leg or sometimes higher due to a sidekicks longer range. Why higher? Because i find that kicking higher up closer to the hip on the kicking leg usually moves his hips/center back just enough to take most of the force out of the kick if not stop it all together.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

it may have been mentioned already, but im with shuul. i like jamming at the crease of the groin. stomp, side, knee, palm ... pretty much any attack will neutralize the power if you get it fairly close to that crease.

[namron]

Originally posted by AztecaPreist
In my experience dealing with kickers and applying what I have been taught in W/C. I understand the reasoning as to why you use legs for leg attacks and hands for hand attacks. First, why use a small bone (such as the arm bone) to try and protect yourself from an incoming leg wich is much more stronger and has more mass wich is gaining strength as it is coming at you faster in a split second? Secondly, why waste all of that precious time waiting for the foot to get to the range where your kwan sao will be? why not go to the root of the kick? it is the most slowest part of the kick and it will always be there when you strike it( the hip) dealing with more experienced kickers and trying to focus on the striking part of a kick is like trying to catch a boxers jab with your hand, (DANGEROUS). The hip is where the kick is developed and dependent on. If you strike the hip you will stop the kick and always be sure to have a faun sao. After seeing what I have written do not take this in the sense as me telling the Kung Fu world what they should all do. This is just what I have been taught and what works for me. If what you are doing works for you then by all means keep on going with it. I am just adding some flavor to this thread.

Spot on.

IMO to hip is the target for neary all jams at it moves precious little and is a larger taget.

[namron]

If you can catch the kick from the gan/tan combination by turning the gan into a tan leaving the kick in the crook of the elbow your in a great position to follow through on one of the following:

1. Take balance and turn your oponent by simultaneously pulling the inside of the knee joint and the ankle back against your upper torso. With your opponents leg cradled against your chest apply pressure and crank/break the ankle by turning the upper torso.

2. Alternatively instead of cranking pull the balance out with both hands to the inside of the knee joint as you do a full step back.

3. tan/gan catch and reverse sweep the rear leg.

Phil would you always use a side step? I find it much more stable to come into a side neutral from the front stance and turn to face the point of contact, this way your stance is aligned at 90 degrees to the direction of the kick.

I must admit I find most kick defences a little hard to pull of against a good kicker in a random sparring situation. In this situation i usually try to jam the hip with a side or front kick while protecting my scone, or stick to the basic check blocks and strike immediately after the kick while cutting off to one side.

[marc_scott]

As a professional Thai boxer I think I can say exactly what works and what does not work with a degree of accuracy.

Using the arms, hands, forearms, etc to block a Thai kick will get you hurt. At best a full power kick will only collapse your arms if you attempt to block the strike, at worse it will break your arm, I have seen this happen it is not pretty.

The best way to block a leg kick is with a shield, use your shin to block the incoming hit. This is what we do in Thailand and we do it because it works most of the time.

As for intercepting the kick you have two choices, be at the very beginning of the power curve or the very end.

If you are standing in front an opponent and he begins to kick if you want to jam the kick at the start of the power curve kick him in the thingh of his supporting leg while he kicks.

To catch the kick you need to move to the outside of the power curve. As the kick comes in you need to move to the side following the arc the kick makes to catch it. The Kick really begins to lose power when the opponents hips are closed. Just experiment and you will find out just where to pick the right time to catch the kick.

Marc

[yuanfen]

marc scott sez:
Using the arms, hands, forearms, etc to block a Thai kick will get you hurt
---------------------------------------------

Marc is worth listening to...using kwan sao againsta powerful
thai kick- if your timing is even a little off- can result in broken arms-
for most wc folks. A little knowledge is dangerous in any field.

[Alpha Dog]

Ahem....

[straight blast]

That video is pretty good! Sifu Protheroe looks like he knows his stuff.

[OdderMensch]

Originally posted by marc_scott
As a professional Thai boxer I think I can say exactly what works and what does not work with a degree of accuracy.

Using the arms, hands, forearms, etc to block a Thai kick will get you hurt. At best a full power kick will only collapse your arms if you attempt to block the strike, at worse it will break your arm, I have seen this happen it is not pretty.

I totally agree that you cannot block a Thai kick. But that doesn't mean that you can't negate a that kick, just that you can't block one. in order to have a good chance at avoiding it you have to first know its coming, then you have to get out of it's way, then you have to attack.

The best way to block a leg kick is with a shield, use your shin to block the incoming hit. This is what we do in Thailand and we do it because it works most of the time.

I wonder if you read my post earlier, and if you'd care to comment on it directly. Good advice for anyone is to use what works most of the time.

As for intercepting the kick you have two choices, be at the very beginning of the power curve or the very end.

If you are standing in front an opponent and he begins to kick if you want to jam the kick at the start of the power curve kick him in the thingh of his supporting leg while he kicks.

I have always thought that one of the centeral ideas to useing WC to fight is to never stand in front of you opponent. One should either be out of kicking range, rushing in, or already in contact. If they move in range and begin to kick, the WC fighter should already be intercepting them.

To catch the kick you need to move to the outside of the power curve. As the kick comes in you need to move to the side following the arc the kick makes to catch it. The Kick really begins to lose power when the opponents hips are closed. Just experiment and you will find out just where to pick the right time to catch the kick.

Catching kicks is hard, and only done as you said from the outside of the kick, once the hip is closed at the kick begins to lose power. The plan is to meet the kick there where you want to catch it, by moveing quickly inside the range of the kick. I have the gaul :D to think I can make it there for the same reason the kicker is confedent the strike will work, practice, preactice, practice. :)

Then you meet it at the thigh, the sofest part with the least power, but that is not to say the soft part with no power, just the part that is generally weaker and softer then the shin, knee or foot at the hieght of the power arc.

Kwan sau and seurn gahn sau both have the elbows down and in, and the shoulders deep in the sockets, with seung gahn (my prerferd method) the elbows amke a slight cutting motion into the flech of the thigh on contact, further disperseing the energy in the kick, and ideally disperseing ito the kickers hip. Kwan sau has a slightly difffernt roll, and would channel the energy back into me, moveing my base and setting me in place for my strike.

-OdderMensch

ps Baak gei, baak jiht.
100 techniques, 100 intercepts.

[OdderMensch]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Marc is worth listening to...using kwan sao againsta powerful
thai kick- if your timing is even a little off- can result in broken arms-
for most wc folks. A little knowledge is dangerous in any field.

here I think you are worth listening to, drink deeply from the well of knowledge, or not at all.

I'm sure Marc knows that my comments spring from curiosity and a desire to learn, and note a vain attempt at braggery.

[namron]

Originally posted by marc_scott
As a professional Thai boxer I think I can say exactly what works and what does not work with a degree of accuracy.

Using the arms, hands, forearms, etc to block a Thai kick will get you hurt. At best a full power kick will only collapse your arms if you attempt to block the strike, at worse it will break your arm, I have seen this happen it is not pretty.

The best way to block a leg kick is with a shield, use your shin to block the incoming hit. This is what we do in Thailand and we do it because it works most of the time.

As for intercepting the kick you have two choices, be at the very beginning of the power curve or the very end.

If you are standing in front an opponent and he begins to kick if you want to jam the kick at the start of the power curve kick him in the thingh of his supporting leg while he kicks.

To catch the kick you need to move to the outside of the power curve. As the kick comes in you need to move to the side following the arc the kick makes to catch it. The Kick really begins to lose power when the opponents hips are closed. Just experiment and you will find out just where to pick the right time to catch the kick.

Marc

Hi Mark all good stuff.

I train on weekends at a Thai boxing gym.

As I've said in earlier posts about kick defences I prefer to jam with kicking or leg check and cut off at an angle and strike.

I personally I think it is possible to block using two arm wc blocks if you get yourself into the proper position, but agree I wouldnt make it a trade mark habit.

The position with respect to the power and contact of the kick becomes important and I would usually try to move to the end of the arc to reduce the impact.

The next thing I usually find is trying not to get nailed by the opponents rear hand, but if you can use smooth take down it still works quite well.

One of the guys i train with has done the fighting circuit a bit including Thailand and he prefers to grab/hook the leg by moving to away from the kick and basically wearing some of the impact then hooking over the top to trap the leg. He then usually throws the leg down and pounds it with his own low round house kick.

I have seen Thai fighters pound the guard using it as a target, once the oponents arms tire from the battering then they are free to take your head out.

Probably one of the best reasons not to stand toe to toe with a stronger/conditioned fighter...attrition.

[Unstoppable]

yah i agree blocking a roundhouse with hands is necessary sometimes

checking is great for a kick aimed at body or legs but if its a head kick itll be too high

and what happens then if you dont block with hands

KTFO

u can take an occasional head kick (and even body kick) on the forearms but its if you cant get out of the way

better especiall for head kicks to move back and get out of rang then hit as u come back in

in my experiance

[Ging Mo Fighter]

wouldnt it be better to destroy your oponent before he has time to prepare a round house kick, either by attacking first, and continueing the attack until he is defeated by attacks to the soft targets such as the cheek bone, eyes, ear, chin, and NOSE
doesnt matter how much training hes done as these targets will always hurt, if hes human :)

[Unstoppable]

LOL

yah Ging Mo it would be better to do that

also it would be better to just not be there when the guy wants to fight you.

in the real world though your not always going to get a telegram in advance warning about the kick thats coming

:rolleyes:

[Phil Redmond]

Hi marc_scott, I know that you are a professional muay thai fighter. I also know that they can kick very hard.
I was an only an amateur kick boxer trained by Yoel Judah. (whose son is a professional boxer right now). I have seen pros block using their arms. Yoel was USA or American champion, I don't remember which. We trained with kickers from Thailand and a guy from Haiti that used to train by kicking banana trees in his homeland. I still have lumps on my upper arms from blocking his kicks.
I trained against Kyokushinkai fighters who kick hard also. As a matter of fact I have seen a pro thai boxrs lose to kyokushinkai fighters. I have sucsessfully used double arm blocks against powerful kickers. Of course I don't just stand there and block. I'm moving dissapating the force of the kick. I try to block before the kick gets the full extension of the leg. You don't want to be on the outer circumference of the kick where the power is. Also, I have tapes of Thai boxers using arms against kicks. If you use the muscular/fleshy part of the arms, not the bone, and they are spread far enough apart to dissapate the force of the kick it is possible to use two arms against a thai kick if you keep moving. If you simply stand there and try to block you are dead meat as you already know.
Phil

[jmdrake]

Hello all,

Check out this video clip of MT/Sanda fighter Marvin Perry (http://marvinperry.org/fightclips-frame2.htm)! See the clip titled "This fight clip is my first professional Muy Thai fight in it's entirety".

In this fight you see him use a defense that's similair to WC kwan sao. He then traps the leg and does a takedown. The clip shows this in slow motion so you can see exactly what he's doing. Later in defending another high rear leg kick he steps in at an angle, deflects the kick with his forearm while simultaneously punching his oponent with his free hand. Sweet!

Regards,

John M. Drake

[PaulH]

Marvin Perry is one tough fighter. I like the way he fired away his kick explosively and did horrific damages from the side. Against this kind of monster, you got to move quick and shut off his engine of destruction if you are to have a chance to survive. But the guy is quick like a cat, too. C'est la vie!

Regards,

[King Of Sanda]

Marvin Perry is very impressive, what a great fighter he is..............

[WCis4me]

Check out this video clip of MT/Sanda fighter Marvin Perry! See the clip titled "This fight clip is my first professional Muy Thai fight in it's entirety".
That was WAY tooooooo AWESOME!!!
Looked like a kwan sao to me too. HOORAH WC!!!
Definately saved as a favorite.
Thanks for the link Jmdrake!

[relax]

I would use a bong gerk, but even against a very strong roundhouse that can collapse
I would also use a bon sau + tan sau elbow wise against the kick, but that can also collapse if the timing is off.


A few important notes:

1) Lots of people say you can intercept, but to intercept you need to know what the opponent will be throwing, Roundhouses always comes after fake punches or a combination, you'd never see it comin almost.

2) going straight at him and knocking him out to get away from the force is almost impossible unless you are 2x faster then him and know all his movements.

3) Muay thai people are like boxers, they can take punches.. HARD!

[Unstoppable]

good points relax

its all about timing and fottwork

[mun hung]

(quote) originally posted by relax
I would use a bong gerk, but even against a very strong roundhouse that can collapse

Ever see that clip of the guy breaking his shin bone on the other guys leg while doing a roundhouse kick? It works.

Bong gerk works real well for the lower to middle gate. Just like kwun sau works well for the middle to upper gate.

There is a certain way that it must be done. And then it's just practice practice practice.

[mun hung]

-

[drac12a1]

Hello Phil,

Originally posted by Phil Redmond

A kwan sau CAN be effectively used agianist Muay Thai kick. I train with Muay Thai guys at my school. Of course you don't just stand there and absorb the blow. You must use footwork. A proper kwan sau will spread the impact of a round kick. I wouldn't use a "double" gan against at round kick though.
Phil
I have pretty a good roundhouse kick. and there is alot of force that forearm cant take. My twc friend that i practice with run away from my kicks and then comes in like chain punching. I dont think it is so good but it is practice against wing chun technique and footwork. There is another froend i met at school who studied modified wing chun and says a quan sau is really effective but I doubt it. Is there any video that shows it working?
DRAC

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by mun hung
(quote) originally posted by relax
I would use a bong gerk, but even against a very strong roundhouse that can collapse

Ever see that clip of the guy breaking his shin bone on the other guys leg while doing a roundhouse kick? It works.

Bong gerk works real well for the lower to middle gate. Just like kwun sau works well for the middle to upper gate.

There is a certain way that it must be done. And then it's just practice practice practice.
I saw that clip quite some time ago and I have it saved. He is kicking low in it though. In order to meet a high kick it would seem to make sense that you would have to use your arms. IMO of course.

For those who haven't seen it here is a link to it. It is the 12th one down under 'kickboxing leg break'. Be forewarned it isn't pretty:
http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/humor_page.htm

I tried to post it from my saved files but I guess it is the wrong type of file to upload here.

Vicky

[jmdrake]

Hello all,

Drac12a1: You asked for a video clip. Did you watch the one that I already posted? (Marvin Perry). While this isn't exactly kwan sao (right arm is in more of a tan position) it's still using two arms in combination with footwork to deflect/trap a kick just like kwan sao.

Relax: You mentioned interception. In that same clip Marvin Perry does just that! He angles in to the right, covering his left side with a "wu sao" like hand position, while striking simultaneously with his right. Of course these things take practice.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Phil Redmond]

My students and I do it all the time. I see you live in Brooklyn. I'll be in NJ in Aug for a MA cross training camp sponsored by Sifu Keith Mazza. I plan on going to Brooklyn to see my kids. Maybe we can meet when I get there. It's kind of hard for me to describe the block here on the forum. I'll PM you my cell phone number before I get there. As a matter of fact there will be Martial artists from many disciplines there to train with at the NJ gathering from standup fighters to grapplers. Contact Sifu Mazza at TWCFK@aol.com if you'd like to come. It'll be a learning experience for all of us.
Peace,
Phil

[mun hung]

(quote) originally posted by WCis4me
I saw that clip quite some time ago and I have it saved. He is kicking low in it though. In order to meet a high kick it would seem to make sense that you would have to use your arms. IMO of course.

Vicky - Yes, I agree with you. Bong gerk is used to protect the lower half. If you read my previous post you will find that I am an advocate of using kwun sau against the roundhouse kick. I never said I would use bong gerk to protect my head. (that would be impossible) I was only commenting on what "relax" had posted on the bong gerk.

I use kwun sau to cover the upper half. I use that together with a bong gerk all the time to "cover" the entire picture. It definitely works.

[WCis4me]

Hi Mun Hung,

My apologies for missing your earlier post. Makes sense now, thanks,

Vicky