Losing Faith in WC

[InjuryProne]

im kind of dissappionted that out of the whole wc community there is not one school that is training fighters for nhb competitions. I understnad that wing chun is for the street and for self defense but that shouldn't preclude it from being a viable style to train for nhb fights. Although the rules favor grapplers, i have seen soem nasty wing chunners that could fair well in these nhb shows.

Can someone please "champion" wc to put the naysayers to rest? I know that wins in nhb fights will not 'prove' anything but that doesn't mean that theer is anything inherently wrong in doing so, does it?

I hate to say it, but maybe the naysayers are correct in saying that wing chun will not work inthe ring against a trained combat athlete? if im wrong please tell me why!

[Ish]

Why dont you train for NHB style cometitions if your so bothered that therte aren't any out there show them how its done.

[yuanfen]

Hi Injury Prone- your profile says nothing about how much wing chun you have done or whether you are even in winchun.
A substantial profile helps in understanding whether the question is serious or just trolling.

[yenhoi]

I hate to say it, but maybe the naysayers are correct in saying that wing chun will not work inthe ring against a trained combat athlete? if im wrong please tell me why!

Because you talk to much, and train too little.

Can someone please "champion" wc to put the naysayers to rest? I know that wins in nhb fights will not 'prove' anything but that doesn't mean that theer is anything inherently wrong in doing so, does it?

No one wants to, whats wrong with that? I personally dislike venue fighting, hows about you?

Although the rules favor grapplers

Completly disagree.

I understnad that wing chun is for the street and for self defense

Wing Chun is for training.

im kind of dissappionted that out of the whole wc community there is not one school that is training fighters for nhb competitions

I doubt you have this much knowlege or expierence.



:eek:

[marcelino31]

from

http://wtdefence.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=414&whichpage=4



"this was a little extarct of the rules (and there are a lot) check http://www.vikingfight.dk for more info

The following is a description of illegal techniques:

1. Biting, pinching or scratching.
2. Eye-gouging/manipulation.
3. Head-butts.
4. Ear pulling or poking.
5. Fish-hooking of mouth, nose or other orifice.
6. Hair pulling.
7. Striking to any target area deemed as illegal by NMFA (see legal and illegal targets).
8. Stomping on competitors’ hands or feet.
9. Throwing/pushing your opponent out of the ring.
10. Manipulation of small joints (i.e. finger and toe locks etc).
11. Striking directly to your opponent's joints.
12. Pressure-point manipulation.
13. Pulling of clothing (unless your opponent is wearing a GI).
14. Pulling of safety equipment (gloves, shin pads etc).
15. Any technique which results in, or is likely to result in, a competitor being dropped directly on to his head.
16. Holding onto the ropes.
17. Direct attacks to the front of the throat (Adam’s apple).
18. Any twisting technique applied to the neck or head.

number 17 and 18. are my favorite technics. If I can strike the throat I will. And if a grappler comes to clos then twisting his head is very effective...... so rules changes alot.

Article 11 - ILLEGAL TARGETS

The following areas of the body are deemed as illegal targets for striking:

1. The eyes
2. The back of the head
3. The whole back area (torso)
4. The back of the neck and throat
5. The groin
6. Knee's and elbow's (joint strikes)

many nice targets/techics wasted =(.

So you see how many things we train in WT cannot be applied in a tourney like this, so you have to train according to the rules and get rid of your normal habits to strike the enemys weakest points with your strongest waepons.

Of course some of the rules limit the grapplers also but still it´s not realistic at all to me. "

[yenhoi]

So you see how many things we train in WT cannot be applied in a tourney like this, so you have to train according to the rules and get rid of your normal habits to strike the enemys weakest points with your strongest waepons.

I really have a hard time believing you train to attack these areas on a regular basis with a resisting opponent. IF you do, I would love to meet your training partners, because if I trained to attack those areas the way you must train to make them viable weapons, all my training partners would be blind/dead.

I see these as possible problems (for myself and the group I train with):

3. Head-butts.
8. Stomping on competitors’ hands or feet. Im not sure if this means you cant "step" on your opponents feet...
18. Any twisting technique applied to the neck or head.

The rest sounds like a typical McKwoon hoo-haa answer: our techniques are too deadly for ring events.

:eek:

[AndrewS]

Yenhoi,

us rougher EBMAS sorts do work against 'resisting opponents' , at speed, with moderate to full contact.

Usually throat shots are given as pushes and off-balances, head manipulations are done according to the judgement of the person executing them, and elbows to the back of the head and neck are kept at a moderate intensity, ramped up if someone is controlled and refusing to give up (I'll keep going when I see black, it's when I get white flashes things worry me).

The larger schools and areas with active full-contact programs usually use very short round times (2 minutes tops, usually a minute), to simulate the explosive nature of street-fighting, and cut back on the injuries, relying on a third man out to break quickly for the fighter's safety.

The list given is from the rules of a Danish NHB match with a WT guy competing. It's part of an apology for why he didn't look like Chum Kiu while winning his fight, and an NWTO mumble on why they aren't generating full-contact fighters.

Within WT there are a number of people who train full-contact, some for NHB. Have we, or Wing Chun as a whole, generated a top-ranked fighter yet? No. Will it happen? Perhaps. I know several people who have the skills to fight professionally very creditably. Right now, they feel their efforts are better spent in other venues.

Later,

Andrew

[rogue]

I understnad that wing chun is for the street and for self defense but that shouldn't preclude it from being a viable style to train for nhb fights. Let's face facts, most arts are taught to be used only within the confines of their kwoon/dojang/dojo. Stop deluding yourself.


Can someone please "champion" wc to put the naysayers to rest? Yeah, you. So get busy.

[InjuryProne]

ish:

I am not a wing chun expert nor do i train hard enough to ever think of competing. But i do believe there are people out there that hvae the skill and athleticism.

Yuan fen:

I have only briefly taken wing chun (less than a year). Too little to be able to use it well, but long enough to train with people who most certainly can. Right now i study jkd / bjj at a bjj school and an sbg school. I see alot of people dissing wing chuns effectiveness but i dont agree. This is not a troll attempt because i am one who wANTS wing chun to do well and people to do know it!

Yeh Hoi:

I admit that i can train more. And your write that i dont know if there are schools out there training ring fighters. But why the insulting tone?

The question of why there is no wing chun in sport events is not adequetley answered by "because no one wants to". That is just a restatement of the question. Why does no one want to?

People who subscribe (often tunnel visioned) into Mixed martial arts style training claim that no wing chun practcioner wants to fight because they cant'. I disagree but logically speaking, the mma argument cant really be refuted until someone steps in the ring to show everybody! I disagree because ive seen wing chun practcioners that i would never step up to no matter how many years of training i had of any style.

i feel that the discussion is an important one. I feel that i am not alone in my dissppointment with the wc community. Even though ring fighting is NOT the be all end all, it would be great for wing chun as a whole to get involved with the sport fighting scene. I want someone to defend the honor of wing chun.

I hear about challenge fights all the time. but i as a wing chun practicioner (alhtough not a very skilled one) would love to see what the 'end' product would look like.

MarcelliNo:

Your point about the rules doesn't really convince me. If I restricted a certain wing chun badasses to just punches I feel that they would still whoop my ass! Sure you'd have to modify the goto techniques but imo wing chun principles should still apply to nhb.

Andrew S:

Thank you for actually not dismissing my post.. I was so glad to see taht the WT fighter in europe won his fight. I also do not doubt thatyou know the high caliber fighters that would also be able to do it. Hopefully , more wc wters in the US will begin entering the competitions. Even though i trained in twc, i CARE NOT about whos "lineage" of wing chun starts competing so as long as SOMEONE does.

To all:

All the posts of people saying "you do it" or "its because you haevn't trained enough" or "show em then" are missing the point here. Just because i dont play pro basketball doesn't mean i can't discuss the success / failure of pick and roll in the nba playoffs.

Im trying to initiate a non-flaming coherant discussion on the state of WC/ WT in sport fighting today and in teh near future. If your of the opinion that one cannot discuss this wihtout actually training for it, then please give logical reasons why. Furthermore, if you think that one needs to be a wing chun expert to discuss success / failure of wc in nhb, then also give reasons why. I will say right off the bat that i disagree. e.g Sports writers do not need to be atheletes themselves.

[yenhoi]

Sports writers should be athletes, its the *******s that buy and read non-athlete columns that create the illusion that sports writers shouldent be athletes.

People claiming to be WCK doods have competed in UFC/pride and have been beaten badly.

Like I said in your other thread.... what difference does it make if people claiming to practice/study/etc WCK enter these competitions and win or lose? It matters not what "style" or "system" whoever claims to practice.... ultimatly it has to do completly with the person competing, and the hard work/time they have put into their skill.

:eek:

[foolinthedeck]

once you matured enough to stop fighting in the playground at school, you had kind of realised how futile it was. maybe you were stronger and faster now, but you were beyond it.

maybe WC people just get beyond such things as NHB etc quicker, the fact that you dont see many 'internal' martial artists training for such things either does not mean that they are ineffective, just that they are beyond it.

my belief is that a certain amount of wing chun opens your eyes and such things become unneccessary. unfortunately, arguing on forums is still a favorite of most of us. :)

[InjuryProne]

Originally posted by yenhoi

Like I said in your other thread.... what difference does it make if people claiming to practice/study/etc WCK enter these competitions and win or lose? It matters not what "style" or "system" whoever claims to practice.... ultimatly it has to do completly with the person competing, and the hard work/time they have put into their skill.

:eek:

IMO you have a solid point here. However, even just as a matter of conjecture, i feel that the current status of wc 'ers in the sports arena is a valid topic regardless if it affects my own personal training. Although i agree that it has to do with the person competing, knowing that doesn't really address the matter here imo.

[Alpha Dog]

"A poor workman always blames his tools."

(brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Alpha Dog)

[kj]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog
(brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Alpha Dog)

Somebody went to sage school while on hiatus. ;)

Regards,
- kj

[InjuryProne]

This is a valid point which from my limited but good experience with wc, i believe as well.

What is it then that wing chun / internal arts have then, that alters ones goals, or what they believe is important. Are they unique to wing chun or not share in these same qualities as well?


Originally posted by foolinthedeck

maybe WC people just get beyond such things as NHB etc quicker, the fact that you dont see many 'internal' martial artists training for such things either does not mean that they are ineffective, just that they are beyond it.

my belief is that a certain amount of wing chun opens your eyes and such things become unneccessary. unfortunately, arguing on forums is still a favorite of most of us. :)

[planetwc]

Unless you are training to fight in NHB events, then this doesn't matter.

If you dropped Wing Chun today and started training at Rickson Gracie's school, it would not MAKE you Rickson or give you his skills.

Those only come from your own training.

So his victories are his, not yours. Just as his defeats are his.

At most what can be argued is that your potential for learning something effective can change if your teacher produces on average people who fight and prevail in NHB events--IF that is what is important to you as a benchmark. It doesn't mean that by studying at the school you automatically get roided up and have MMA skillz.

You have to get where you want to be with your own sweat.

If Emin Boztepe or Joe Sayah enter and win at Pride or UFC, it doesn't translate into you having their abilities. Nor does it mean that statistically you will be a better fighter based on their victory.

Too often we fall into the trap of self esteem by group association.

My sport's team, my martial art style, etc. etc.

Unless it is you in the arena, those are BS.

If you want to engage with MMA mouthboxers, train hard in MMA or whatever your chosen art and then be able to fight and win with them. THen it is a matter of saying, it is not about my style vs a BJJ guy, but ME against YOU. And I'm betting on *ME*.

That means being able to put yourself on the line, presuming it is that important to you. And THAT means going to a different level of training and a different mind set. If those things aren't that important to you, then you have to learn to deal with it and move on.

[InjuryProne]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog
"A poor workman always blames his tools."

(brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Alpha Dog)

"You gotta have the right tool for the job , Beavis"

[kj]

Originally posted by InjuryProne
This is a valid point which from my limited but good experience with wc, i believe as well.

What is it then that wing chun / internal arts have then, that alters ones goals, or what they believe is important. Are they unique to wing chun or not share in these same qualities as well?



Again, may be a post hoc ergo proctor hoc problem. It is, IMHO, more likely due to the type of people generally attracted to Wing Chun to start with, rather than a significant "alteration" in attitude or goals once undertaken. I have little doubt there are lots of other arts more alluring to big macho guys who think fighting is cool. "Thinking arts" may tend to draw more thinking people. Similarly, arts that demand patience may more easily hold those with sufficient capacity for it.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[InjuryProne]

IMO this does matter as even a matter of conjecture or debate. and i believe it is relevant even if i dont foolishly beileve that i will be royce cuz i train a few times a week, etc...

I feel that much can be contributed to this debate by this board's members because you us we i are the people that are "in the know". This is not something i even care to debate with people that are already skewed to "oh yeah mma is the way to go look at pride 15, etc".



Originally posted by planetwc
Unless you are training to fight in NHB events, then this doesn't matter.

If you dropped Wing Chun today and started training at Rickson Gracie's school, it would not MAKE you Rickson or give you his skills.

Those only come from your own training.

[kj]

Great post, David.
- kj

[InjuryProne]

This is a great point. But since there are indeed some wcer's with great athleticism and skill with crazy workout ethics, there must be other reasons as well that wc is so underrepressented.

I could accept this reason alone with only a little bit more tournament type of fights under wcs belt.


Originally posted by kj


Again, may be a post hoc ergo proctor hoc problem. It is, IMHO, more likely due to the type of people generally attracted to Wing Chun to start with, rather than a significant "alteration" in attitude or goals once undertaken. I have little doubt there are lots of other arts more alluring to big macho guys who think fighting is cool. "Thinking arts" may tend to draw more thinking people. Similarly, arts that demand patience may more easily hold those with sufficient capacity for it.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by InjuryProne


"You gotta have the right tool for the job , Beavis"

If I am Beavis....

[planetwc]

Then if you are more interested in being a "combat athelete", then Wing Chun is not optimized for that venue.

Predominantly, those that do NHB train in BJJ/Wrestling, Muay Thai and Boxing. The level of conditioning is different, the mind set is different and the goals are different.

The current and prior generations of Wing Chun teachers did not have grounding in such events--nor interest in that kind of competition.

To gain the level of skill needed in Wing Chun to consistently prevail against world class NHB fighters is beyond the time and interest level of most students of the art. And it may be beyond the teaching experience of their instructors.

Wing Chun to me is a hobby, it is not something for me to train in, to become a professional fighter. I don't have that interest, the youth needed or the time to put in for it. Nor is the "payback" from fighting in such things worth it to me --at this time--.

Wing Chun is not teaching you to get someone on the ground and submit them, nor do you regularly put on gloves and try and knock out your training partner. Unless of course you are KenWingJitsu or Andrew Nerlich. :P


Originally posted by InjuryProne
IMO this does matter as even a matter of conjecture or debate. and i believe it is relevant even if i dont foolishly beileve that i will be royce cuz i train a few times a week, etc...

I feel that much can be contributed to this debate by this board's members because you us we i are the people that are "in the know". This is not something i even care to debate with people that are already skewed to "oh yeah mma is the way to go look at pride 15, etc".

[AndrewS]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by planetwc

>Predominantly, those that do NHB train in BJJ/Wrestling, Muay >Thai and Boxing. The level of conditioning is different, the mind >set is different and the goals are different.

The latter two I agree with, unless you are specifically training for NHB.

If you don't take conditioning and fitness seriously when it comes to fighting, you will pay the price.

>The current and prior generations of Wing Chun teachers did >not have grounding in such events--nor interest in that kind of >competition.

Speak for yourself, not me and mine.

>To gain the level of skill needed in Wing Chun to consistently >prevail against world class NHB fighters is beyond the time and >interest level of most students of the art. And it may be beyond >the teaching experience of their instructors.

Yes, we will have to go out, work, and learn.

>Wing Chun to me is a hobby, it is not something for me to train >in, to become a professional fighter. I don't have that interest, >the youth needed or the time to put in for it. Nor is >the "payback" from fighting in such things worth it to me --at >this time--.

Different people view their hobbies differently.

One of my si-sok, a superbly talented fighter and WT man, who has been a professional instructor for the last decade, who has trained at least two students who I would put up against any top ranked amateur or entry-level pro MMA I have met, likes to thai box. A junior of mine was asking him about his Muay Thai experience, wondering why he would practice MT when his WT was so good.

His response (imagine a German/Greek accent for full comedy value)- 'It is my, how you say? Hobby. It is my hobby. Some guys, they like to golf.'

That about sums it up.

Wing Chun and Escrima are not my hobbies. They are part of my life. I do have a hobby, though. . .

Later,

Andrew

[flaco]

i agree, its given wc a bad name, that no wc guy has ever done well in nhb. the b.s about the rules, is just that, b.s.

i have ten years of wc under my belt, and i know it's a great art, but where are the good fighters? i know each school has it's badasses, that can all kick my butt, but im no pro fighter. if any wc guy thinks he can beat a rickson gracie, or mario sperry, i would loven to see it. i believe somewhere out there, there are guys that can. i have heard of rick spain being very good at fighting, and at machado jj, i know boztepe is real tough, but really, who have wc fighters beat? and all the wc guys that say they have had 400 streetfights,etc, i say it's b.s, anyone who has that many fights would be locked up for life. i have many friends who have had 50-100 streetfights, and they are troublemakers, and have all done time, for injuring people.

have any of the wc guys ever went down to those gracie open challenge matches? i would love to see a wc guy beat a gracie. i love wc, and would love to see it. i have tapes of all styles going to the gracie academy, and no rules, and guys got killed.

im no gracie nut rider, so dont think i am, i was so glad to see their losses, but i give guys like shamrock, and kerr, bas rutten,etc, all those guys credit, for fighting anyone.i saw the tape of boztepe, and wasnt impressed with his, or cheungs display of wt. both guys are masters, and could handle me with their pinky, but that was hardly a display of wt.

i think if boztepe was a little younger, he would have maybe dove into nhb. i see him as a great wt man, and as i said, spain is probably real good.but what about families other than wt, and twc? who has had any real good fighters?
i think that in all honesty,very few wt or wc guys can stop a heavier wrestler that is like division one or pro, and again i hope i am wrong.but wc guys need to get out there and represent.i have seen good wt guys compete in amateur nhb fights, and they did well. but the also trained in bjj.

i really doubt that anyone can really train eyejabs, and the like, against an opponent trying to grapple them. anyway, i thinwc or wt is a great art, that teaches good skill for weaker opponents,but unless you train against other arts, and leave your fear of loss at home, you cant succeed. you need to get on the floor with a real grappler, and train against him, and a real thai boxer,etc.

any wt guys here? theres a guy named hunter on adcc board saying that raza nasri used to toy with boztepe in training on the ground, i stuck up for boztepe, but i got slammed there.is this true

[InjuryProne]

Originally posted by Alpha Dog


If I am Beavis....


You're not .. that's exactly my point :)

[InjuryProne]

It certainly is way beyond mine. And way beyond most students of any art. However, some arts are more represented in sport context. Why not wing chun?


Originally posted by planetwc

To gain the level of skill needed in Wing Chun to consistently prevail against world class NHB fighters is beyond the time and interest level of most students of the art. And it may be beyond the teaching experience of their instructors.

Wing Chun to me is a hobby, it is not something for me to train in, to become a professional fighter. I don't have that interest, the youth needed or the time to put in for it. Nor is the "payback" from fighting in such things worth it to me --at this time--.

[InjuryProne]

Maybe im overlooking something but i dont "get it"

Originally posted by AndrewS
[QUOTE]Originally posted by planetwc


One of my si-sok, a superbly talented fighter and WT man, who has been a professional instructor for the last decade, who has trained at least two students who I would put up against any top ranked amateur or entry-level pro MMA I have met, likes to thai box. A junior of mine was asking him about his Muay Thai experience, wondering why he would practice MT when his WT was so good.

His response (imagine a German/Greek accent for full comedy value)- 'It is my, how you say? Hobby. It is my hobby. Some guys, they like to golf.'

That about sums it up.

Wing Chun and Escrima are not my hobbies. They are part of my life. I do have a hobby, though. . .

Later,

Andrew

[kj]

Originally posted by InjuryProne
It certainly is way beyond mine. And way beyond most students of any art. However, some arts are more represented in sport context. Why not wing chun?



Maybe because it isn't primarily a sport??

Apparently I'm the one constantly missing the point. :confused:

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[AndrewS]

Flaco,

I have no idea who's a better grappler, Reza or sifu Emin. I've always heard sifu speak highly of Reza's grappling, but I never got the impression that he outclassed him. Frankly, it doesn't matter. I've rolled with sifu for fun on a number of occasions- he's a very good grappler, and outclasses me massively on positions alone (while he gives up about 40lbs, and intentionally lets me take his back, mount, etc). When he decides to make things into a striking game on the ground, he becomes something else altogether.

The '300 streetfight' thing- I don't have some exact count on this, but from people who've known him from back in the day, it supposedly pretty accurate. He worked the door in some bad places for several years, and was a Turk in Germany through the '80s and early '90s- don't know if you remember the footage of neonazis burning gastarbeiter's homes, but that wasn't a really friendly environment for his ethnicity back then. He was also teaching a number of the local cops in his home town when he was coming up, which seems to have helped keep him out of jail.

If you do NHB you *have* to train with quality strikers and grapplers of the type you'll be facing- boxers, thai boxers, wrestlers, and BJJ men. Your skills will depend in part on who you get to work against, and yes, you'll have cross-trained. You will notice that pure BJJ guys are getting schooled now too. . . you have to know the whole game.

Once again- it's not the style, it's you, and how far you're willing to take things.

Injuryprone,

when thai boxing in Amsterdam is your hobby, how do you treat the things you do professionally?

Later,

Andrew

[zultan]

i just dont think wing chun attracts the type of people who would want to compete.it gives people an alternative to tough guy macho arts yet provides the average person with a chance to defend themselves without becoming a modern day gladiator.on the other hand,if some of these nhb guys gave wing chun a chance and did some cross training in it i bet it would serve them quite well.its such an adaptable art

[Alpha Dog]

Originally posted by InjuryProne

You're not .. that's exactly my point :)

Logically speaking, your denial of the precedent doesn't negate the antecedent...

But, I am willing to!

[Adam R]

Well,

What can I say to all of that except... Bull****.

Just WC Men giving their **** excuses about why not to fight. It is for the street, it is not what we are taught. My sifus says fighting is bad. Blah... Blah... Blah.

A little point.

Bad WC will hardly work at all.

Good WC Will work in some cases.

Excellent WC Will work anywhere.

Adapt you idiots.

[Edmund]

InjuryProne, if you have insecurities about the reputation and representation of WC, there's not that much you can do.

But your feelings may not be the same as others WC people. People don't necessarily have the same opinions on how WC should do in the UFC. Some are not that fussed.

Unless you are the head of a WC school or an organisation, I don't think you are going to make a radical change to the general direction WC has taken, which is more of a hobby/lifestyle thing with not much sporting competitions in NHB events.
It's attracted those sorts of people and filled that need in their lives.

That's the truth put as gently as possible. You can complain about it on the internet but other than that, there's not much you can do.

[Fresh]

Originally posted by Adam R
Well,

What can I say to all of that except... Bull****.

Just WC Men giving their **** excuses about why not to fight. It is for the street, it is not what we are taught. My sifus says fighting is bad. Blah... Blah... Blah.

A little point.

Bad WC will hardly work at all.

Good WC Will work in some cases.

Excellent WC Will work anywhere.

Adapt you idiots.

Wow, your going to be a great role model for your studetns when you open up school in California.

[Grabula]

hehe, Adam r, didn't you hear, wingchun isn't for fighting. refer to the Tao of Alpha Dog to see what wing chun really is all about, or isn't about. :p

[yuanfen]

Wow, your going to be a great role model for your studetns when you open up school in California
---------------------------------------------------------------
California?

Not to worry- he will fall on hard times.

[KenWingJitsu]

Stay tuned boys and girls. I might once again champion the WT cause in an NHB cage before this year is out. Maybe my retirement match. Will you come watch?

[Alpha Dog]

WC is definitely for fighting. My point is you have to learn it first before you can use it. Does that help?

[Grabula]

sure Alpha Dog, I understand.

[Alpha Dog]

I didn't think you would.

[Grabula]

sure Alpha Dog, I understand.

huh, that implies a positive, but wait!!! This must be another lesson from the Tao!!! To know is to not know right?!

[Unstoppable]

"maybe WC people just get beyond such things as NHB etc quicker, the fact that you dont see many 'internal' martial artists training for such things either does not mean that they are ineffective, just that they are beyond it."

yah i agree competiton fighters is generally immature brutes

look at mike tyson eg he says:

"I'm the most irresponsible person in the world. The reason I'm like that is because, at 21, you all gave me $50 (million) or $100 million, and I didn't know what to do. I'm from the ghetto. I don't know how to act. One day I'm in a dope house robbing somebody. The next thing I know, 'You're the heavyweight champion of the world.' ... Who am I? What am I? I don't even know who I am. I'm just a dumb child. I'm being abused. I'm being robbed by lawyers. I think I have more money than I do. I'm just a dumb pugnacious fool. I'm just a fool who thinks I'm someone. And you tell me I should be responsible?"

this is exactly what ALL competetors are like - you have to have that kind of attitufe to be in the ring in the first place.

we dont need this kind of behaviour in our art. these brutes are not skilled just THUGS.

[WCis4me]

This site is meant to be humorous right?

"Do not creticise... just reconise... that NAMAT is the best!!"
http://www.geocities.com/namatkungfu/

Here are some quotes from it:

Namat is the North American Martial Arts Temple. Situated in luscious Bovey, Minnesota, we offer a wide range of teachings in every single style, to the excellent levels that defeat all enemies. You can here learn the following: kung fu, muay thai, special ju jitsu, normal ju jitsu, various other normals, and the finest combination of all of the above and NAMAT boxing and Chinese Animal, to be found this side of the Buddhist Temples of Shaolin monks and Wu Dang Shak. We are the best in America, the best in English speaking countries the world over, the best in non-English speaking, except China, and in fact just the best except the Chinese who invented all styles. We learned from the best Chinese

Namat knows various mysteries. We know American temple boxing, which is a mystery that is a cross between secrets of our founder Thom Nelson
His name doesn't sound chinese, and aren't some of the styles the site discusses actually japanese. In fact doesn't it say that your sifu went to japan to learn as well? Just a guess but that would mean you didn't just learn from chinese as it states?

Here are some of your quotes on this thread:

"yah i agree competition fighters is generally immature brutes......."

"this is exactly what ALL competitors are like - you have to have that kind of attitufe to be in the ring in the first place."

"we dont need this kind of behaviour in our art. these brutes are not skilled just THUGS."

>>Quotes from the site:

"We train hard, fight hard..................
...........Our secret techniques have been known to break arms, smash legs, kill, hurt, defeat, and hypnotize all but the most trusted of our powerful allies and students; we are lethal.'The skills that we teach and our rigorous methods defeat those of all of our competition. We teach the skill of ninjutsu kung fu as well as grappling/kickboxing, wrestling, and UFC Fighting Championship. Many of our members are champion worldwide Olympic gold medal wrestlers, UFC Champions......"

"NAMAT was created by Sifu Thom Nelson after years of attempts to perfect the ultimate fighting temple. Beginning his fighting career in 1973 at the age of three"

"FAMOUS PEOPLE. Many celebrities are graduated from NAMAT. Sarah Michelle Gellar ("Buffy" - famous vampire slayer). Chuck Norris as well as Sammo Hung and Jackie Chan. The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin are both accredited teachrs of NAMAT American Temple Boxing."

"Here we see the assassin in his preferred habitat of trees and bushes to hide in, swing from, or retrive useful potions. He is hiding extremely well. Notice his quiet posture, black clothing, choice of night time setting for his attack. All of these are extremely deadly ways to approach a victim before taking him out."

Isn't this a contradiction? Also hiding then planning to use 'deadly ways to approaching a victim' isn't that acting like a thug?

>>The site says:

"We train hard, fight hard, and offer cheap videos and books. Cyber training is another specialty, so you can learn from the safety of your own computer ... "

>>Then it goes on to say......

"In these days of Burger King commercialsim Sifu Thom Nelson holds to the ancient ways."

>>Isn't that a contradiction?

The site says:

"We have the highest quality teachings based on knowledge passed down through from Original kung fu masters.
Our Lineage (structure of teachings and passing down secrets). This describes who learned what from which Kung Fu masters. The lineage is the key to our secret knowledge and how we have defeated many weaklings, rivals and enemies including Grand Master Johnny Chow."

>>Then it gives a lineage link that starts with Yip Man and has three people proceeding down from it. That's it. Nothing about anyone from ALL these other styles. Just 4 names in direct succession from Yip Man.

There are so many things on the site that are truly hilarious.
It can't possibly be meant to be serious.

BTW the picture links with the heading 'top secret series follows" with the 'this may be a real assination attempt by a real assassin'......tooooo funny.....nice touch along with the how to and not to hide pictures found here:
http://www.geocities.com/namatkungfu/gallery.htm

[Unstoppable]

"His name doesn't sound chinese, and aren't some of the styles the site discusses actually japanese. In fact doesn't it say that your sifu went to japan to learn as well? Just a guess but that would mean you didn't just learn from chinese as it states?"

he learn from Chinee not necessarily is and also HE DIDNT JUST LEARN THER BUT ALSO FROM OTHERS IT DOESNT SAY "ONLY CHINE"

"Isn't this a contradiction? Also hiding then planning to use 'deadly ways to approaching a victim' isn't that acting like a thug?"

NO IT COULD BE ASSASSIN OF WAR OR POLITICS WHATEVER if that is a thug then i guess you say army snipers is a thug too??????

">>Isn't that a contradiction?"

no

"Then it gives a lineage link that starts with Yip Man and has three people proceeding down from it. That's it. Nothing about anyone from ALL these other styles. Just 4 names in direct succession from Yip Man."

much of the other info is gfven on history and other pages and stuff about Peter ZHANF and other stuff its only the WING CHUN lineage that on the AMIN PAGE

"There are so many things on the site that are truly hilarious.
It can't possibly be meant to be serious. "

i amg glad you find my kwoon so funny and hilairius so please can you shut up now and stop bickering about politics

i thouht this forum YOU WERENT SUPPOSE TO TALK POLITICS AND BASH OTHERS LINEAGES BUT JUST TALK TECHNIQUW

SO LETS GET BACK TO IT

OKAY





:rolleyes:

[WCis4me]

We are the best in America, the best in English speaking countries the world over, the best in non-English speaking, except China, and in fact just the best except the Chinese who invented all styles. We learned from the best Chinese
Uh, actually it does say ALL styles come from chinese, and that is why you are the best because you learnt all of them from the chinese.

i amg glad you find my kwoon so funny and hilairius so please can you shut up now and stop bickering about politics
i thouht this forum YOU WERENT SUPPOSE TO TALK POLITICS AND BASH OTHERS LINEAGES BUT JUST TALK TECHNIQUW
I wasn't bashing I was commenting that it didn't show the lineage it promised of all the other styles. Was commenting on the site.
Frankly I was responding to you talking about ALL competitors being thugs, yet the site contradicts that by talking about various 'famous' competitors, including WWE wrestlers, that are teachers of your system.
So I was perfectly on topic, and disagreed, call it whatever you want but your statements and your site are a complete contradiction. I am allowed to disagree with you.
I truly thought the site was meant for amusement, I am sorry if that has offended you.

[Unstoppable]

yah okay apollogy excepted

but if you thought the site was humurus why did you say it was contradiction with what i said before???????? that make no sense

anyway at laest SOME of you can admit you are WRONGF sometimes (maturity)

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by yenhoi

I understnad that wing chun is for the street and for self defense

Wing Chun is for training.

:eek: [/B]

Training to do what exactly? Note I'm not knocking WC. I just find your response here puzzling.

Regards,

John M. Drake