Chor Ma

[marcelino31]

When pivoting should both feet move at the same time or should one move before the other? Also when shifting how does your weight move in relation to your center axis?

[OdderMensch]

This is something that differs between lineages. For my part, I practice turning one foot at a time, to promote stability, ie not haveing eveything in motion in one dicection at one time. Also I turn/foot more towards the ball of the feet then the heel, to aid in mobiliity.

As for weight, it shifts somewhat, from 50-50 to more like 80-20.

[marcelino31]

You can try an interesting experiment, suggested by Leung Ting, get a shoe and hold it by a string with your arms parallel to the ground and shift. If you shift by turning one foot followed by the other the shoe will move nicely from side to side if you shift with both legs at the same time the shoe will wobble all over the place.
This experiment illustrates how to correctly move around your center of gravity

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by marcelino31
You can try an interesting experiment, suggested by Leung Ting, get a shoe and hold it by a string with your arms parallel to the ground and shift. If you shift by turning one foot followed by the other the shoe will move nicely from side to side if you shift with both legs at the same time the shoe will wobble all over the place.
This experiment illustrates how to correctly move around your center of gravity
I guess it depends on how stable you are wearing only one shoe. :D IMO, that demonstrates the incorrect way to turn.

To have body unity and maintain a strong horse, it is important to turn everything together. It's more difficult, but doable. And it's the only way to do it and maintain solid structure which can apply the turning force against your opponent.

Regards,

[AndrewS]

That test of Leung Ting's. . .

. . . is actually quite nice. It has nothing to do with the toe, the center of the foot, both feet at once, or heel shifting, though.

The test, as I learned it from him, involves extending both arms out with hands clasped and shoulders back. You then turn while keeping the hands in the same position- I used to practice this by pinning a towel in a corner with my fingers and turning.

You then hang the pendulum (shoe, bag, whatever) off your extended hands. If you're 'turning'- your CoG is moving off the line formed by the centers of your feet- the bag will swing, as your *ss traverses an arc (which cannot withstant pressure, btw). The distance between your CoG and that of the weight (basically a pendulumn) and you will change, and the bag will oscillate. If you are *shifting*, moving your weight on the line in between your feet (which allows you to give and receive pressure), this change will be minimized and the bag will be stable.

Honestly, I'd have to sit down with Feynman's to work the physics of this out- it's been a while, but the bottom line is the bag will move if you're body is not moving on a straight line- if you're actually turning instead of shifting your weight.

Consequentially, I show people to shift weight from 0/100 to 100/0 without a turn or adduction (feet parallel), then break the 'turn' into stages involving linear axis shift and rotation around an axis, after developing the stance and ability to use the ground a bit.

Later,

Andrew

[kj]

Originally posted by marcelino31
You can try an interesting experiment, suggested by Leung Ting, get a shoe and hold it by a string with your arms parallel to the ground and shift. If you shift by turning one foot followed by the other the shoe will move nicely from side to side if you shift with both legs at the same time the shoe will wobble all over the place.
This experiment illustrates how to correctly move around your center of gravity

Alright, I had to go try it, LOL. Report from my experiment as follows:

As long as my posture was correct and maintained throughout the turn, it made no difference if I moved one foot at a time or both, and the shoe travelled smoothly and side to side. The only difference was speed of the turn vs. degree of shoe swing. When I let my posture go even slightly to heck and become disjointed or imbalanced, indeed the shoe wobbles and moves more erratically on the string. FWIW, it was my kung fu shoe on a piece of kitchen string.

It's a cool illustration; I'll probably use it in class sometime.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[kj]

Originally posted by AndrewS
You then hang the pendulum (shoe, bag, whatever) off your extended hands. If you're 'turning'- your CoG is moving off the line formed by the centers of your feet- the bag will swing, as your *ss traverses an arc (which cannot withstant pressure, btw). The distance between your CoG and that of the weight (basically a pendulumn) and you will change, and the bag will oscillate. If you are *shifting*, moving your weight on the line in between your feet (which allows you to give and receive pressure), this change will be minimized and the bag will be stable.

Good description.

I usually favor the word "turning" over "shifting" but mostly because the word shift carries other connotations for me, other than the transitioning of weight. In context as you decribe, it makes perfect sense.

Regards,
- kj

[AndrewS]

Hi Kathy Jo,

a side bar- when I first saw Leung Ting do this one, I believe he used either a long pole or a 6' staff as the holding arm. I haven't played with this much but if my rough sense of the physics is right, a longer arm should act as an amplifier, revealing smaller flaws.

One very nice training mechanism us WT folk use to cure people of the wobbly turn is chi sao on an 'I' shaped beam with adjustable distance between the top and bottom of the 'I'. This is a very nice Darwinian way of developing the turn- turn wrong under pressure and you fall off the beam. (2x4, so no biggie)

Later,

Andrew

[yuanfen]

chor ma really shows the differences in lineages- though there are different ways to skin the cat (ugh!). FWIW, I dont turn one foot at a time. No big deal.

[OdderMensch]

Originally posted by yuanfen
chor ma really shows the differences in lineages- though there are different ways to skin the cat (ugh!). FWIW, I dont turn one foot at a time. No big deal.

Heathen! Burn him!



:D




J/K joy, please don't beat me up!

[yuanfen]

Odder Mensch-

Heathen? That I am.
Burn me/

Old Jong will protect me...
he takes no xxxx <g>
I have compassion.<vbg>